News Stockmarket receives worse hit in 30 years.

[Bugz]

BBC NEWS | Business | Fear grips global stock markets

Things are not looking good.

If the global economy reaches a global recession - the consumer WILL feel it & it will not be pretty.

The stock market lost nearly £100 billion in UK shares today. That is fuckin insane.

1 more week of bad trading and we'll have out-done the 1980's situation and will be so fuckin close to the 1930's depression it's unreal.

What makes it worse is the combined global input to fight this is probably nearing 1 trillion dollars. If the shares can't survive the confidence boost 500-1000 billion dollars provides; then what the fuck will help?

Anywho - I'm surprised this isn't discussed more as we really are on the brink of economic chaos. Once banks stop lending properly; the economy will stop overnight literally. The financial industry is the pinnacle of economic society.

/Discuss

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

 

[Raven]

Economic society? How do you mean? Every society is economic.

Blame the bankers, speculators, politicians and the media for the mess that they have got us in, they have been far to lazy with their guidelines and rules and it has blown up in their faces. It wouldn't actually be half as bad if the papers hadn't got hold of it. I work in the building industry now and we are still turning work down we have so much, though we are top of our market and very specialised it wasn't half as bad as it was made out, though I think its heading that way now.

I am glad I am lucky enough to have relative financial security.

 

[Bugz]

I don't see how you can blame anyone but the regulatory boards, who should have kept a closer eye on things.

Banks made the most of a booming period - fair play to them - anyone would have done the same.

The real economy is quite fine at the moment Raven because everything is confined to financial and stockbroking. It's when the liquidity truly stops that the whole economy comes crashing down.

 

[Bahumat]

Once Tohtori gets this job it will all be sorted. Can someone send him the application form please?

 

[Raven]

I don't see how you can blame anyone but the regulatory boards, who should have kept a closer eye on things.

Banks made the most of a booming period - fair play to them - anyone would have done the same.

The real economy is quite fine at the moment Raven because everything is confined to financial and stockbroking. It's when the liquidity truly stops that the whole economy comes crashing down.

Anyone with responsibility wouldn't have, they have been FAR to quick to lend money to people and businesses that simply couldn't afford to pay it back and never will be able to pay it back. To put it simply you buy a bunch of mortgages low risk, medium risk, couple of high risks in the end you make some money. These days (well, not now obviously) you get people getting greedy and buying high risk only and getting fucked. I would say self owned except the useless fuckers have brought everyone down with them.

No the real economy is not fine rising fuel costs are hitting everything from manufacturing to production to distribution, every step of the line is either having to absorb the extra cost or pass it down the line to the consumer, the consumer isn't getting paid any more because the people they work for are having to absorb more costs. Two major events, the explosion in fuel costs and the failure of the banking system to regulate its borrowing and lending have caused huge problems. (again they would not be half as bad if it wasn't for the media)

It started happening years ago but governments borrowed to prop up the economy hoping they could ride it out. Uncle Gordon even went as far as selling off our gold reserves at less than the market value in a desperate attempt to cover up for the problems, when that was spent it was borrow borrow borrow. The government has saddled each and every person in the UK with 13k of debt in their latest ploy alone. I very much doubt we will recover properly within the next 15-20 years.

 

[tris-]

how safe is money in a HSBC cash ISA?

 

[Bugz]

Oil etc. are exogenous factors; and thus out of our control.

They don't factor into a discussion re: an endogenous factor, which ultimately is a failure for the regulatory boards.

You cannot blame banking. The financial system is so fuckin complex and so essential to the economy; that any way to expand it is welcomed with open arms. The government's way of expanding the economic upturn of the cycle and encouraging as much investment and spending as possible puts pressure on the banking system to provide. What do you do when the opportunity arises to make money in a upturn that seems to never end? You make money.

Bush himself put the pressure on the American mortgage companies to provide more affordable homes. Regulatory was waved in order to improve the standard of living. Banks merely complied.

I do agree with you that politicians deserve a good kick in the nuts; but the bankers are simply replying to the forces of a free-market economy, and are encountering something now that hasn't been experienced before since we adapted our policies after the 1980's.

If anything, this will lead us to being able to develop and tighten our economic ideas in the future. I can see a Neo-Keynes revival tbh.

 

[Bugz]

how safe is money in a HSBC cash ISA?

Savings accounts are very much fine.

It's the investment and borrowing side of banking that's in turmoil.

 

[tris-]

doesnt the bank invest the ISA money though, and thats how i get interest?

my mate had all his in iceland. warned him a week ago it was going under but he didnt listen.

 

[Bugz]

The bank do use the money yes but not in the same way that investment and borrowing works. Investment is subject to a process called the credit-multiplier whereby an injection of say £100 cash will lead to an output in the economy of £1000 whilst still leaving the £100 in the bank. This is where the real money comes about.

Savings are simply paid in by one person and utilized by the bank to pay short-term funds. They are of course factored into the lending above; but considering most banks don't want to lend and the fact that the government are guaranteeing 98% of savings pretty much means your money will be safe wherever it ends up

 

[tris-]

thanks

 

[old.Tohtori]

Once Tohtori gets this job it will all be sorted. Can someone send him the application form please?

I had the job, but then i took 500 billion into a f*cking huge matress and quit before the sh*t hit the fan.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Buffett becomes the richest American - Top Stocks Blog - MSN Money


This is...... interesting. I was under the impression that buffet had made big losses during this crisis. There was even an article on msnbc called "has warren buffet lost his touch" (or something like that) a while ago.

 

[swords]

Note it says worst hit in.... .... .... 30 years....
So that means it's actually been worse before and we all pulled through so deal with it or perish.

 

[tris-]

hate to say it but can someone rep bugz for me

it still wont let me do it.

 

[Bugz]

hate to say it but can someone rep bugz for me

it still wont let me do it.

:eek2:

 

[tris-]

well what can i say. you answered the question in a way i could understand it.
usually worth a rep.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

The people blaming others in this thread never deposited a money at a bank then?

If you did, then you're part of the problem.

Money As Debt

 

[Marc]

So the UK government are now bailing the banks out which in effect means me and you are paying because of the banks fuck ups.

Wankers. Tell you what, I will draw all the money I have available on my credit cards and spend it all, then instead of going bankrupt, will plead with the banks and the government to bail me out.

If it was down to me,I would have let the banks go under. Shit happens. The strong survive, the weak disapear especially during a recession.

 

[Calaen]

It is the best option though Marc, I agree with you we should let them go under it all there fault, The whole industry needs a shake up and this will go along way to sorting it out.

The media are also to blame, if the banks had of kept this quiet there would not be people freaking out.

 

[Cadelin]

So the UK government are now bailing the banks out which in effect means me and you are paying because of the banks fuck ups.

Wankers. Tell you what, I will draw all the money I have available on my credit cards and spend it all, then instead of going bankrupt, will plead with the banks and the government to bail me out.

If it was down to me,I would have let the banks go under. Shit happens. The strong survive, the weak disapear especially during a recession.

Going bankrupt doesn't solve the problem. The money has still been lost. When an individual goes bankrupt their debts are effectively cleared so the banks lose out. When a business goes bankrupt the clients suffer. The majority of these banks are very viable businesses the best option for these is to [part] nationalize them securing them in the short term and hopefully making the money back in the long term.

 

[Marc]

Going bankrupt doesn't solve the problem. The money has still been lost. When an individual goes bankrupt their debts are effectively cleared so the banks lose out. When a business goes bankrupt the clients suffer. The majority of these banks are very viable businesses the best option for these is to [part] nationalize them securing them in the short term and hopefully making the money back in the long term.

???

I was using the bankrupt as an analogy. I meant, why dont I, or you, spend all our money and then ask the government to bail us out.

Nationalisation of banks as a temporary measure you mean? Just until they've been financially bailed out by those who can least afford it, then re-privatised so that all the global chancers and stock market spivs can get back to what they do best? Ripping us all off?

And I dont agree with you or Cal thats its the best move. The government are playing a risky game by bailing these banks out. What would have been better would be for stronger banks to have taken these over, rather than them all being nationalised. Do you know why Brown is throwing money at these banks? Because your average voter thinks its a good thing and thus will vote labour. A recent poll a couple of days ago showed labour back in the lead "IF" Brown Bailed out the banks.

The bankers have failed to do their job spectaularly and should be left to rot and never let near a financial instituation again, not bailed out by the government. As I said, this is what recession is all about, weeding out the weak.

 

[Gorbachioo]

It is the best option though Marc, I agree with you we should let them go under it all there fault, The whole industry needs a shake up and this will go along way to sorting it out.

The media are also to blame, if the banks had of kept this quiet there would not be people freaking out.

So are you saying that the media should have kept this whole thing in the dark?

I dont know about you, but i'll rather have all the information delivered to instead of some media mogul deciding what i should and shouldnt know.

It has a name too. Its called independent media. Its not supposed to serve business interests.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

So are you saying that the media should have kept this whole thing in the dark?

I dont know about you, but i'll rather have all the information delivered to instead of some media mogul deciding what i should and shouldnt know.

It has a name too. Its called independent media. Its not supposed to serve business interests.

but the media /are/ deciding just that for you. They decide that you hear this news, and not that in fact the unemployment rate hasn't been this low in tens of years. They decide to tell you that the inflation is through the roof, due to the euro, but fail to mention that your wage is also twice as high..

 

[Gorbachioo]

but the media /are/ deciding just that for you. They decide that you hear this news, and not that in fact the unemployment rate hasn't been this low in tens of years. They decide to tell you that the inflation is through the roof, due to the euro, but fail to mention that your wage is also twice as high..

Well i'll repeat what i said: They shouldnt be doing that.

But i do realise that the main stream media is hardly independent. Thats why people should always check alternative sources aswell.

 

[Cadelin]

I was using the bankrupt as an analogy. I meant, why dont I, or you, spend all our money and then ask the government to bail us out.

This is what currently happens in effect. The Government guarantees peoples savings (up to £35000 per person per account which is most savers). When they made this guarantee they were saying we will bail you out if you screw up.

The bankers have failed to do their job spectaularly and should be left to rot and never let near a financial instituation again, not bailed out by the government. As I said, this is what recession is all about, weeding out the weak.

The majority of bankers won't suffer though. They were allowed to gamble with tax payers money and profited for a while. However I am sure that most of them would realize that the good times wouldn't go on forever so they have probably paid their mortgages off and saved some money. If I was getting a six figure bonus each year I sure would have. You cannot punish these people now without punishing other (innocent) people more.

The government is doing the best thing for the tax payer. Its cheaper to bail out the banks (and possibly get the money back eventually) then let them go bankrupt and then have to pay savers who have lost their money with no chance of getting that cash back.

The next step is to properly regulate the bank industry. In order to have the Government guarantee to savers banks will not be allowed to make so many risky investments and the bonus culture will be reduced. The Government will also have to be alot more careful about what it promises in future.

 

[Lamp]

Individual bankers will continue to get bonuses, thats how they're remunerated. As a new trader you'll be on around £70,000 p.a and pick up maybe £50,000 bonus at the end of your first year. Salaries peak at around £150,000 (most banking salaries have a cap of around the 150K mark) but bonuses will top that up anywhere from £100K and up. One of the guys I used to work with took home £4,000,000 the year before I left that firm. Another guy I heard of in the States took home £18,000,000 - but then again he did make the bank something like half a billion pounds in one year (Chase Manhattan - before it was taken over by JP Morgan).

 

[Dukat]

The people blaming others in this thread never deposited a money at a bank then?

If you did, then you're part of the problem.

Money As Debt

If you work on the principle of "let he who hasn't sinned cast the first stone", you get a pretty boring rockthrowing contest tbh.

If someone makes a good point but then does the opposite, the person who made it may well be a hypocrite, but that doesn't stop it being a good point.

 

[Gorbachioo]

Market Dispatches - MSN Money


Good news for a change.

Lets hope this continues.