Stealthers gonna have to rethink tactics with TOA

[asorek]

Originally posted by Falcon
All the casters whining about stealthers really need to get a grip and try playing one, I know casters have a lot of issues right now but I've played both extensively and casters are in a far, far better position than stealthers.

wtf are you smoking??

Casters in better shape that stealthers!!? i think u lied when u said youd played both!!

Casters are bottom of the food chain..always have been... stealthers have ALWAYS been at the top..and you whine about stealthers having it hard? oh jees thats funny... perhaps you should actually take out a lvl 50 caster into RvR sometime.. see how many times you actually get past a MG even with a FG without being shot in the ass by some archer and dying 3secs later when hes pinged you with 4 rapid shots that u can do fuck all about!!

infact your statement made me laugh soo much im adding it to my sig..to remind me that some people truly ARE stupid.

 

[Hargh]

Hopefully will encourage stealthers to find other ambush spots and make them have to think a bit harder about them.

 

[Tesla Monkor]

It's really simple - Mythic wants the game to be group and zerg oriented, and this is the easiest way to enforce that. Too bad they don't give stealthers something that would make groups want them. And they also made TrueSight useless. :/

 

[Ardrias_Mid]

Tesla, I thought you was a sensible person... But your comments about casters damage and such... No... really, no...

A tank hits me harder than I can nuke them for. Fair enough, I have range to counter it. Oh wait... insta taunts, charges on weapons/armor, and suddenly I dont have that advantage.
Ah right, I get some form of CC to counter (depending on caster) But hey, the tank has access to cheap RA's called determination and purge. Maybe I shouldnt attack a tank, ok?

Lets try... a seer. You target random seer. It casts some instaspell on you. You are interrupted. It either smacks you dead with a staff that hits harder than a tank, or cc's you and runs off.

Right, how about... a hybrid then? Same thing as above, but the only outcome is it kills you.

Casters are in a sad state, and are in no way overpowered.
The only really viable caster atm is the chanter with it's damn pet. BAoD doesnt matter much anymore, since whiny snotnosed americans effectively killed off casters in all realms.

So here's something that might bring casters back to use again, and you just HAVE to get that nerfed? *insert rude words*

Stealthers as they are in DAoC at the moment are ridiculous. With this ML, chances are they'll have to actually act like assassins, hiding in "the shadows" so to speak. Not just stand in the middle of a road, with no cover in sight, and no chance of being spotted. Should they be uncovered, they can just hide again... like that... Sickening. uke:

/rant off

I've quit the game so I really shouldnt bother, but really... some whines are so fucked Just hope Darkfall will have a good system as opposed to DAoC

 

[Svartur]

I never liked Toa to start with and now I am glad I already decided I cba to stay when Toa comes.

Until then its occasional RvR and more and more SWG.

Looks like mythic has done it again.

And Ardrias, get real. Tone down your flaming, sure maybe assassins needs to be tooned down a bit but this is like saying

"Ardrias, from now on you may only use nukes between mmg and mpk. GL hf, you can try in other places but you will die."

 

[Turamber]

PN gives groups a reason to actually include a caster. And it should provide a wake up call to stealthers that they can't just hang around at milegates waiting for the free RP chain to come walking through.

I'm with the poster above in regard to casters -- they truly suck at the moment, anything to empower them has to be a good thing. So stealthers feel hard done by? Shame, adapt or leave I don't much care

 

[Rulke-RM]

Personally I'm going to wait and see for myself how overpowered it is, and not listen to the opinion of some yank (These same people think mid is underpowered ).
Kinda like the way I'm withholding judgement on the other MLs, 2 Infils bodyguarding each other for example.

Look on the bright side, stealthers will get full advantage from ToA artifacts, weapon procs etc. Casters will be able to nuke for 100(-400) at 25% further range!

 

[Rulke-RM]

Originally posted by Turamber
PN gives groups a reason to actually include a caster.

Not really, since shaman get it too

 

[Falcon]

Originally posted by asorek
wtf are you smoking??

Casters in better shape that stealthers!!? i think u lied when u said youd played both!!

Casters are bottom of the food chain..always have been... stealthers have ALWAYS been at the top..and you whine about stealthers having it hard? oh jees thats funny... perhaps you should actually take out a lvl 50 caster into RvR sometime.. see how many times you actually get past a MG even with a FG without being shot in the ass by some archer and dying 3secs later when hes pinged you with 4 rapid shots that u can do fuck all about!!

infact your statement made me laugh soo much im adding it to my sig..to remind me that some people truly ARE stupid.

See sig. I play an Animist and Enchanter, plenty can vouch for that. You however clearly have never played a stealther and are thus in no place to comment on something you've proven yourself, in this post, to have no clue about. I'm sure I even have a lot more caster RvR experience than you, let alone stealther RvR experience and tank/naturalist RvR experience to boot for a more impartial view.

Looks like you're the stupid one. Go to emain and take a look, go compare the amount of stealthers in groups to the amount of casters in groups and come back and tell me casters aren't in better shape when you find that there's a ratio of like 50:1 casters to stealthers getting groups.

Just to help you out, because you're also obviously a newbie, focussing on this quote:

even with a FG without being shot in the ass by some archer and dying 3secs later when hes pinged you with 4 rapid shots that u can do fuck all about!!

If you're dying when in a full group to 4 rapid fire shots (capping at around 250dmg if you have no resists) then:
a) Group with competent players who know how to heal
b) Get some melee resists
c) Get some crafted armour, or even in fact get some epic, because if you're dying so easy, epic is clearly better than whatever the hell you must be wearing - 89% qual dropped armour or something?
d) Remember to up your self AF/Absorb buffs
e) Get some +const
f) Get some +hps
g) Remember to cast bladeturn
h) Learn how to use quickcast to quickcast and interrupt the archer, preventing him getting another shot off
i) If you're incapable of learning how to use quickcast, simply learn to move out of range (This means moving in the OPPOSITE direction of the archer)

Either of these should help because from your own description of your experience you're clearly not doing any of them.

You can't blame your total lack of skill or knowledge of the game on stealthers.

Saying they're at the top of the food chain is even more laughable, go check the highest RP earners of the last week or whatever, you'll see tanks and support classes mostly. You might see the odd Infil or so who can port back to the centre of the battle easy unlike Hib stealthers who have a long run upon death but my guess is you'll see a hell of a lot more casters even.

Seriously, at least get a clue before you post in future.

 

[Krakatau]

Go Falcon

 

[Jenna.]

Originally posted by Tesla Monkor
You lot realise that casters are still the most damaging class out there, bar none? You don't have paper armor without a reason.

sorry, but , maybe most damaged, but damaging ?

 

[Rulke-RM]

Falcon, I wouldn't call "playing" an enchanter and animist getting them to 400k and 75k respectively, never mind the fact that hib chanters are the only viable ones atm because of GP and not having to face BAoD.

Originally posted by Falcon
Looks like you're the stupid one. Go to emain and take a look, go compare the amount of stealthers in groups to the amount of casters in groups and come back and tell me casters aren't in better shape when you find that there's a ratio of like 50:1 casters to stealthers getting groups

I'm not sure about other realms/servers, but talking about excal/mid this is completly untrue, excal alb has a high percentage casters, but they are easy fodder for the first tank group that they cross paths with.

 

[asorek]

that is the most fucking retarded FLAME ive ever seen...haha a chanter..you consider that a pure caster? ok..whatever!! oh and Stealthers ARENT MEANT TO GROUP!!! FFS Dumbass!! ive never seen ANY Stealther WANT to group in emain unless its with other stealthers....

so what did your post actually acheive? besides proving my point that YOU REALLY ARE FUCKING STUPID..nothing!

Get some melee resists?...im capped in ALL Melee resists..i have MP Cloth..and im always FULLY Buffed....

So you know someone that can heal in 3secs the VERY INSTANT I GET HIT quickly enough do you? well do you? no you fucking dont.. i dont know a single healer that can heal without using their insta to stop me being dropped by a RapidShot archer!! Fuckoff with Absorb and AF buffs..have you seen what we wear? its paper...those buffs dont do much for us.. and if they do id like to see which buffs your using that i dont!

So you doubt that ive had much RvR...ok whatever..i see you turned this into im a Realm Rank xx and your not flame because u basically posted shit with nothing to back it up... well ill end it now saying i have played both RR8L6 Casters and RR5L4 casters ive had my time in RvR and tbh Casters SUCK! if u have a pet..you can get by..otherwise even with MOC your life expectancy in anything other than a zerg is likely less than 20secs.. oh but ofcourse your the mighty bullshitter..i bet you run around emain all day untouched because you are teh uber OVERPOWERED MANA CHANTER!! whatever..go roll a real caster and tell me how to play loser..no you wont..why? cos you like your easy mode chanter!

 

[Jaem]

ive never seen ANY Stealther WANT to group in emain unless its with other stealthers....

Hmmm, I like to join groups with my sb now and then... but its usualy been guild things, as they look at the person not the class. I believe somethings an SB is ok for in group is finding other assasins that could posibly hit and run on a member in your group.

 

[Rulke-RM]

Originally posted by asorek
that is the most fucking retarded FLAME ive ever seen...haha a chanter..you consider that a pure caster? ok..whatever!! oh and Stealthers ARENT MEANT TO GROUP!!! FFS Dumbass!! ive never seen ANY Stealther WANT to group in emain unless its with other stealthers....

so what did your post actually acheive? besides proving my point that YOU REALLY ARE FUCKING STUPID..nothing!

Calm down m8, don't have an aneurism :wub:

 

[asorek]

i am calm...i hate when nobheads wade in posting shit like that. ffs casters have it easier than stealthers!! pfft i wish..

 

[Ardrias_Mid]

He posted it on BW so it must be true.

 

[Falcon]

Originally posted by asorek
that is the most fucking retarded FLAME ive ever seen...haha a chanter..you consider that a pure caster? ok..whatever!! oh and Stealthers ARENT MEANT TO GROUP!!! FFS Dumbass!! ive never seen ANY Stealther WANT to group in emain unless its with other stealthers....

so what did your post actually acheive? besides proving my point that YOU REALLY ARE FUCKING STUPID..nothing!

Get some melee resists?...im capped in ALL Melee resists..i have MP Cloth..and im always FULLY Buffed....

So you know someone that can heal in 3secs the VERY INSTANT I GET HIT quickly enough do you? well do you? no you fucking dont.. i dont know a single healer that can heal without using their insta to stop me being dropped by a RapidShot archer!! Fuckoff with Absorb and AF buffs..have you seen what we wear? its paper...those buffs dont do much for us.. and if they do id like to see which buffs your using that i dont!

So you doubt that ive had much RvR...ok whatever..i see you turned this into im a Realm Rank xx and your not flame because u basically posted shit with nothing to back it up... well ill end it now saying i have played both RR8L6 Casters and RR5L4 casters ive had my time in RvR and tbh Casters SUCK! if u have a pet..you can get by..otherwise even with MOC your life expectancy in anything other than a zerg is likely less than 20secs.. oh but ofcourse your the mighty bullshitter..i bet you run around emain all day untouched because you are teh uber OVERPOWERED MANA CHANTER!! whatever..go roll a real caster and tell me how to play loser..no you wont..why? cos you like your easy mode chanter!

So how much did those casters cost you on ebay?

Rulke, those stats on my chars rps are from duskwave I assume? They also seem to say I have last week rps, which is odd, because my euro account has been cancelled for the last 2 months as I've been playing US - I think I left the chars with webdisplay off so it could be that that's causing them to show very old info. Animist is actually at I think 160k rps when I left and chanter at 760k or so. Also played a friends SM on Galahad a bit for the last few months whilst he's been back at Uni and racked his rps up by about 200k rps, now at 1.6mill rps.

Sorry Asorek but I have a hard time beleiving a kiddy like you can say anything credible, your posts are so full of flaws and holes it's hilarious. The irony of someone resorting to caps, yet calling me stupid nearly made me fall off my chair with laughter.

Also, I know what you mean about casters getting rolled by tank groups Rulke, it's something I too have complained about whilst playing my caster and I know casters are pretty weak in fg vs fg, but from a 1 vs 1 and zerg vs zerg perspective casters are VERY strong. Despite the fact I am a fan of fg vs fg I also realise it's not the only way to play the game and not the only way the game is played. In RvR as things currently stand, for survival and how well the classes do in general:

Pure tank = Support class > Hybrid tank > Mage = Alb stealthers (except scouts) > Hib/Mid stealthers and Scouts

Pure tanks and support classes are definetely at the top of the food chain right now, hybrid tanks are next down, slightly below pure tanks due to weaker RAs and such but still in a better position than mages, who have a lot of issues with interrupts but are uber 1 vs 1 and if hiding in a large zerg. Alb stealthers get it good due to there a) being so many of them, b) getting backup from a support/stealther, and c) with their ease of access to emain. NS are a pretty solid assassin but suffer the long run to where the rps are and the fact they're much more often than not, outnumbered and that they're also not quite as good as Infils. Archers and SBs are weak. Archers are just mages without quickcast and lower damage output (unless they get a crit in which is very very hard with the requirements of a successful crit shot - even with a crit shot, a mage will still have done more damage than the archer by about the 3rd attack). Archers do have stealth but assassins find us very easy right now, rangers especially having to spec lower stealth due to having as many required spec lines as assassins whilst at the same time having less spec points are easy to find even for non stealthers unless the ranger is to gimp himself in another way. Archers are definetely the weakest class type in DAoC right now - and have been since the first flurry of nerfs back in 1.4x, claiming otherwise shows nothing but ignorance towards archers.

The one thing I have to ask any mage to keep in mind, is, imagine your interrupt problems, then imagine not having bladeturn and quickcast. The problem archers have is making the kill. Unlike mage nukes, bladeturn, sheilds, evades, higher than resist rate miss rates, as well as a few bugs where you just can't take the shot even with perfect LoS make it very difficult to kill the target as an archer. Mages have always been able to cast twice as fast as archers for roughly the same damage on equal resists. Archers were given rapid fire to allow them to fire as fast as mages, the difference is for this fire speed bonus archers had to accept their damage cut in half whilst mages still hit for full damage at the same speed.

 

[asorek]

haha ebay...like anyone would actually manage to SELL A CASTER!
credible? like the fact you post on a European server you admit to not having played on for a while? yet you seem to think that US servers are identical to ours..it isnt i can assure you....

Stealth zergs are rife here...as im sure they are on a lot of servers..but i can assure you trying to get through a MG with a caster is pretty much 50/50 these days..most archers run in pairs asisstin each other...1 pops BT..if you have it...then the other mows you down then his mate joins in...if you dont got BT...your toast in less than 5-6 shots...and its quite hard to see often where the first arrow came from..by the time to 2nd lands your hit by the 3rd and the 4th... try running out of range in less than 5-6secs....i wish i could..rapid shot is a grosly overpowered tool against casters..yet another nail in the game for us... even with full capped HP..it dont take long to drop you...

ive worked hard for everyone of my lvl 50's...ive never been PL'd..not a damn single one...i wont do it...it breaks my heart to see how shit a class can be made by something that is added without thought..but stealthers have had it waaay to easy for far too long...im glad this ML will even the score...

As for your mention of look at the RP totals...that doesnt mean shit...any mong can run in a zerg and easily get XXXXk rp a week EASILY..stealthers are lower in the ranks because they dont grp.. theyre not meant to..theyre primarily a SOLO RvR class...surely you cant deny that? and unless Stealthers have some unique UBER grp ability it will always be like that.

Rp Totals..as it has been said on here a million times dont show anything...it doesnt show which class is better or worse...
I wish people would get that into their heads...RP's = Nothing! other than more obscene RA's..

and if lots of stealthers quit? great!! then i wont have to whine about MG stealth zergs anymore!! and i can start to try and play my casters again without getting pissed everytime im dropped with no chance to defend myself..
oh and that stuff about miss rates from archers is not true... they dont appear to have ANY problems missing in RvR..you dont hear many at all whineing about their miss or fumble rates anymore...those got tweaked a while back..they used to be horrific..the main reason i dumped my scout...that and the 20% less aggro {cough 20% less dmg cough} nerf we got... id give my casters to anyone that would trade for a 50 scout ranger or hunter..anyday of the week...waay more fun and viable to play than a non=pet class caster i can assure you!

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Originally posted by Jenna.
sorry, but , maybe most damaged, but damaging ?

Yes. Compare spells to weapons. Nukes have a higher DPS that anything in the game. Just because it doesn't always work (Resists, the caster sucking at his class, whatever) doesn't make it any less so.

For that reason they have gimp armour. But we're deviating from the path (as usual on BW.).

All I can say is.. Damn, I'm happy I never bothered to level up an assassin.

 

[Jaem]

asorek, RR's effect dmg output I thought, so would have thought being hit by a high RR player would be different from a low RR player... +skill...

 

[Falcon]

Originally posted by asorek
haha ebay...like anyone would actually manage to SELL A CASTER!
credible? like the fact you post on a European server you admit to not having played on for a while? yet you seem to think that US servers are identical to ours..it isnt i can assure you....

Yes because I'm sure the games really changed tons on the euro servers in the last 2months, between patch 1.62 and erm, 1.62.

RP totals show which classes are played the most and which are gaining rps the best. I think that's a pretty damn good indication of whether a class is gimped or not. A class is hardly uber if no ones playing it and it's not gaining many rps is it?

 

[asorek]

yes your correct about the extra dmg... but when talking about dropping a caster..regardless of RR..it isnt a hard job.. ive been dropped by RR4 upto RR8 archers and stealthers..it dont make THAT much difference....the only slim difference is with RR4 and under i might actually get out of range only to be slapped down by a hungry SB..NS...INFIL..its the same effect.

 

[Jaem]

Would have thought a caster could just QC a CC spell... thats what the experienced ones do to my sb and huntress... since I hit casters for around 600hp top 2hd PA with slash resists that are around today... would have thought plenty of time if you was quick of the mark.

Anyone get the same as this or am I the only 2hd fool around?

 

[asorek]

Originally posted by Falcon
RP totals show which classes are played the most and which are gaining rps the best. I think that's a pretty damn good indication of whether a class is gimped or not. A class is hardly uber if no ones playing it and it's not gaining many rps is it?

umm well if that was the case why would mythic go out of their way to say THAT RP TOTALS ARE IN NOW WAY A SIGN OF HOW BALANCED A CLASS IS?

You got it right in the first line after that it went wrong....
you said "RP Totals shows which classes are PLAYED THE MOST"
obviously if someone plays a class a lot they have more RP's...

Umm a class can be uber and not gain Rp's you know..Cabbies are the bomb..yet theyre arnt that many high RR cabbies in the world..so by your assumption cabbies arent good...ok sure..come over to emain ill get my bro's spirit spec cabbie to whack you some..i think youll change your mind!! Also thanes are considered to be gimps..but theyre not..they do decent dmg and can slam..but yet people just asume that theyre gimps cos they dont get seen in RvR and are not in the Top RP earners!

 

[asorek]

Originally posted by Jaem
Would have thought a caster could just QC a CC spell... thats what the experienced ones do to my sb and huntress... since I hit casters for around 600hp top 2hd PA with slash resists that are around today... would have thought plenty of time if you was quick of the mark.

Anyone get the same as this or am I the only 2hd fool around?

so i can QC a root on you to stop you attacking me? umm ok i wish!! cos thats all Wizzies get..and cabbies... a QC mez yes..but what about those classes that only get Roots..? that aint much use against someone that will still smack you while you run away.. with a quick offhand and main wep a stealther can hit you maybe 2 times before you can sprint off..enuff dmg to snare dot or Disease you leaving you limping away while your alledged 1m23 Root wears off after 7secs cos he has Capped resists...
tbh casters need more self preservation skills...it shouldnt be left to RA's to save your ass..you should have the tools from your spec line...

 

[Jaem]

Hmmm 7sec? not like we have Det :x

http://www.sadface.net/modules.php?name=Resist_RA2
dunno how right this site is but still ok time imo even with 26 magic resist on suit and 24 buff resist

 

[Falcon]

Originally posted by asorek
umm well if that was the case why would mythic go out of their way to say THAT RP TOTALS ARE IN NOW WAY A SIGN OF HOW BALANCED A CLASS IS?

You got it right in the first line after that it went wrong....
you said "RP Totals shows which classes are PLAYED THE MOST"
obviously if someone plays a class a lot they have more RP's...

Umm a class can be uber and not gain Rp's you know..Cabbies are the bomb..yet theyre arnt that many high RR cabbies in the world..so by your assumption cabbies arent good...ok sure..come over to emain ill get my bro's spirit spec cabbie to whack you some..i think youll change your mind!! Also thanes are considered to be gimps..but theyre not..they do decent dmg and can slam..but yet people just asume that theyre gimps cos they dont get seen in RvR and are not in the Top RP earners!

If a class is in the top RP earners list it has to be a class that's played by a lot of people either in groups or solo. Gimped classes wont get groups and wont be able to solo thus get low rps. Uber classes either solo well or get lots of groups, therefore they show up high in the list. It's really not a difficult concept.

Funniest part about this post of yours is how you're saying mages are gimp and can't kill archers yet now make out cabalists to be uber saying that your bros could beat me archer, fair enough I'm glad you agree that a mage can kick the hell out of an archer. Keep digging your grave deeper, I'm more than happy to keep on helping you, just hope you decide to jump in it soon.

 

[marathor]

Originally posted by asorek

Also thanes are considered to be gimps..but theyre not..they do decent dmg and can slam..but yet people just asume that theyre gimps cos they dont get seen in RvR and are not in the Top RP earners!

Hehe this thread is killing me.

 

[Rulke-RM]

Class statistics mean nothing.

nothing

Groups require certain classes, skalds for example. Now skalds are far from powerful classes, they are included for 1 reason only, speed. But because of this they are always guaranteed a spot in group their classes average RPs are much higher than arguably more powerful classes.

Secondly, its more about time played than class power, 2nd highest RP holder in mid/pryd is a thane fgs...