Stealther-balance; is there any ?

[Puppet]

After some experience in stealther-warfare I was wondering how others think about 'this' balance thing in stealther-fights; who's the strongest, who's the weakest?

Assassins:

* Infiltrator; obvious one of the strongest assassins; good assortment of races, most spec-points, spec-AF. One of the toughest enemies I imagine for all of us

* Shadowblade; pretty weak; except for a few exceptions; it seems shadowblades got alot harder time then infiltrators. A 'mediocre' shadowblade is 'utter crap' compared to an infiltrator it seems often when I fight these guys. 2H seems nice damage; but very tricky against high evade classes obviously. Really weak ?

* Nightshade; sneaky bastards, they suffer from low STR/CON races; but make up (do they?) by higher DEX; a uber nice RR5 RA in stealther wars, spec haste makes em fast swingers too. Never fight em; how are they ?

Archers:

* Scout; really good bow damage; and immune to other arrows which seems a BIG plus in New Frontiers/keepfights. Utter shit in melee in most typical specs; tho 9 sec anytime stun + FZ make it not an easy kill. Also the high spec in socialising nm :X

* Hunter; mediocre bow damage; but melee HURTS on classes with little defense I would guess. Their magicline gives em some utility like a pet (nice!) and a typically better speedshout then rangers; which can be a major annoying thing. FZ + backstun = pain

* Rangers; probably the best (?) overall stealther? High damage from range; good melee; stun of evade and side-positional; access to FZ makes em bitches I imagine


* Minstrel; the 'strange' one in the list. Has a bucketload and a truckload of utility in his music-spec making fights with em non-trivial in most cases. Chain armour + evade2+ shield + spec AF = tough nutter. Insta stun; mezz, DD's, throw in a pet and 'piss poor?' melee for most stealther-mincers. No access to MoS makes em easy to find (and to avoid)". Add a FZ to the arsenal of CC and SoS and high-RR minstrels cannot loose to other stealthers if they choose not to loose (feels like it to me). By far the best duo-partner any stealther can wish for I imagine ?

 

[Derric]

I don't think an SB is really weak when they get some realmranks up their sleeves, but that's probably mainly cos I every now and then feel like I'm "BIG BABA GO WHIRL!" and try outright melee something that evades shitloads.
They're the weakest of the assassins, but in no way as gimped as some of them claim to be.

Minstrel rocks if you play it the way Kklas and Crapp does, then the insane whining about the class is somewhat righteous. The average minstrel isn't all that though, imo.

 

[Ovi1]

Seems pretty fair sumamry to me

Mincers solo or grouped are horrible to fight, especially as I am a lowbie and can't afford Purge 2, let alone Purge 3

 

[bigchief]

All archers are a bastard these days, mainly due to ML's and the fact if one shoots you chances are 5 will. NS's are incredibly easy for me at low rr, bloody hard at higher rr's. This is without taking remedy into account, its a pure iwin vs assassins. SB's on the whole arnt very tough but there are more crap sb's than ns's imo (spec, equipment etc). The ones that really do put the effort in can give a good fight, just so few of them around. As you said, none of them are as gimped as most will make out.

 

[Jarumda]

* Nightshade; sneaky bastards, they suffer from low STR/CON races; but make up (do they?) by higher DEX; a uber nice RR5 RA in stealther wars, spec haste makes em fast swingers too. Never fight em; how are they ?

Be glad u don't have to fight them, they were bastards before, but now with str relics, they are demi-gods ><

* Rangers; probably the best (?) overall stealther? High damage from range; good melee; stun of evade and side-positional; access to FZ makes em bitches I imagine

Not sure if they're the best, but they are certainly very strong.. the other day I got outdmg'ed in melee by a ranger ><, think it was u tbh.

 

[Invisibul]

as a reasonably ok inf, not the best but i'd like to think i'm a worthy foe, i find NS and rangers the toughest enemy, simply becuase they hit so fast and now with heat LW's their dmg is good, especially compared to me, rangers i found are toughest though, even if i survive through FZ, there's an IP waiting, and another stun, insane, even more so now with new RA's and arti abilities to add to the utility.

As for most sb, lol, only the RR7/8+ give decent fights, or 2 sb of RR1-5/6
Hunters, ok if solo, annoying if duo, 2x FZ, IP etc, again if solo, the high RR ones 7+ give good fights.

All in all, hibs tbh have the best stealthers imo.

So no, there is no stealther balance.

 

[Cylian]

Infiltrators
not much else to say about those. easy mode for the masses.

Shadowblades
problem with SBs is, they need too many toys to become a threat. When they got Haste and AF up they got a good chance to kill any other stealther out there ... unless those are using charges as well (very few). Hastebots aren't that common, those that got one usually are considered the 'good' SBs though.
If you want to get an idea what it's like as a normal SB, leave the Haste (Hibs) or AF (Albs) out for a run and just use charges. Just don't expect to be able to use SoM/SL/Malice/Battler when you need it.

Nightshades
As soon as you throw in a good player, some RAs and a ToA suit, you got a living nightmare (for a SB atleast).
Can't run from them without getting nuked out of stealth, can't run after them without getting nuked. Bladeshade get's a bonus to mid leather, but don't face the same penalities due to Remedy. Against a freshly buffed NS, a SB only faces penalities, slash resistant armor, heat/cold/matter buffs availabe etc.
semi-high RR Nightshade is probably the best assassin in the game.

Scout
way too social. way too much range.

Hunter
If they hit with that spear, they hurt. Problem is, that 5-7 evaded swings in a fight doesn't seem to be too uncommon against assassins.

Ranger
Anything they aren't good at ?

 

[Jimmae]

i've got both an sb and a hunter.. both <rr4, both effectively retired now due to fighting the odds against other stealthers.

with hunter, i just get shot to death by scouts who sit happily with shield out and /engage my main damage away, assassins just beat me in pure melee, or PA/CD and beat the hell out of me.. no defense and spear styles that lower the pitiful evade 2 even more make melee fights (unless you spec specifically for that, ie snornig) very very hard.

with sb.. i went 5 spec, tried to go for a spec that could stand up to an infil in melee while still getting in a decent PA on casters... failed miserably, god we need more points! rangers are tough, but beatable if they dont have FZ and IP (yeah, right ), NS is normally a decent fight unless they above rr5, then its just a slaughter. scouts in melee are fine, but high MoS ones that come with 4 mates and pop you out of stealth seems to be the norm lately.

hib has strongest stealthers 1v1, but alb stealthers are the best when grouped (cant beat the mincers utility), mid stealthers need some kinda boost, at low rr we dont even have a chance.

 

[Succi]

High RR nightshade is best assassin vs assassin at the moment , considering they are a decent player (remember remedy etc). For assassin vs anything else , id rather have an infil due to various obvious reasons. Mincer is just sick (yes I have played one up to rr7) in the stealthing war , not gonna whine on about it though

Archers are fairly balenced I feel, all have their own strengths (High RR hunter hurts me in melee the most)

 

[Xxcalibur]

spec af and minstrels( good played , not melee minstrel) made alb stealthers the more overpowered in 2 vs 2 or 3 vs 3 fights

 

[sneakies]

I'd be forced to agree mid's drew the short straw with their assasin. Dont seem to be the best damage dealers, have out solo'd one unstyled which i cant imagine felt good for them.

Infil's aren't a bundle of joy to fight, probably due to their extra spec points, and spec-af, and im not actually sure if ive ever come out of a duel with a infil and won, then again, i not sure if ive ever actually had a duel with one and not had a scout add

Hunters, i hate. i feel quite confident i can out melee an RR7 hunter, the troubles only come when they hit their *i win* button, or magically get of a crit shot from outta no where

Scouts, i hate. again im quite confident i can out melee an RR7 scout, the troubles are found if they land their 9 sec stun or hit their *i win* button.

Shades, only ever seen in thid on excal. And they are sneakie little buggers

Rangers, same as shades

Minstrels, one word describes the class best: nerf. DD's hit for more than a shades, have insta stun, single mezz, aoe mezz, charm, weapon styles, chain armour, FZ, etc, etc.

Undoubtedly if u put any stealther class against another the potential to win is 50/50 because every fight is different. Against a mincer however its not worth wasting ur time with because unless u can kill them quickly. You can expect to be stunned, DD'd, attacked twice, FZ'd, attacked 4 times and DD'd, then before u drop out of the FZ ull get mezzed. This will be the queue for the mincer sit down for a 30 second regen, bend over kiss its own ass. Hit you, DD you, stun you, hit you twice. And im pretty sure u shuld be dead by now

In terms of duoing, any duo has the potential to win, it all depends how a fight starts

 

[belxavier]

hunters are worst off in terms of bow range/damage also face some nasty penalties against most assasins in that spear ws generally not particularly high, and 2h slow as hell (since i never usually have spec haste unlike hibs :>) versus dual wielding foes as gupet says multiple evades not uncomon. Hunter stun also is rear positional so not that often useable if solo, unlike slam anytime for scout or evade/positional for ranger; that couple with the defence penalty on all spear style anytimes/ chain openers. Also haveing only evade 2 compared to ranger and scout 3 iirc does make life harder for hunter having said that pet can be huge advantage in certain situations. in archery termswould rank scout>ranger>hunter
melee ranger>hunter>scout
tho ranger and hunter maybe on a par without relic dmg offseting the balance since swing harder but slower.

used to play ns and have only played sb on a couple of occasions weaker as the but would say at low rr ns might be slightly weaker but as they get 5+ they come into their own infils nasty to fight hit hard and fast and spec afed :> would prob rank inf>ns>sb tho i seen sbs do nice dmg so depends on rr spec equipment etc.

as for mincer as said if played well like carpp plays his then yes then are fairly nasty dds stun etc speed chants best armour of all stealther evil pet potential acces to fz etc, in some ways a well played mincer is the best of the lot tho many are crap... even a nub can spam stun dd in a group and mess up an archer while his mates pepper u with arrows .

 

[Cylian]

... as gupet says multiple evades not uncomon...

<curses> ye, every kobblet looks the same ... damn ignorant norse! <walks off rambling>

 

[belxavier]

<curses> ye, every kobblet looks the same ... damn ignorant norse! <walks off rambling>

hehe oops well ur all small and blue and smell same after dark /cough i mean sorry lol

 

[Ketinna]

as a reasonably ok inf, not the best but i'd like to think i'm a worthy foe, i find NS and rangers the toughest enemy, simply becuase they hit so fast and now with heat LW's their dmg is good, especially compared to me, rangers i found are toughest though, even if i survive through FZ, there's an IP waiting, and another stun, insane, even more so now with new RA's and arti abilities to add to the utility.

As for most sb, lol, only the RR7/8+ give decent fights, or 2 sb of RR1-5/6
Hunters, ok if solo, annoying if duo, 2x FZ, IP etc, again if solo, the high RR ones 7+ give good fights.

All in all, hibs tbh have the best stealthers imo.

So no, there is no stealther balance.

i fail to understand the point of worthy foe, since you get more specc points?

or is it just me?

 

[xxManiacxx]

Infiltrators
The easiest to play of the stealthers. Hard to fuck up speccs due to specc points, specc AF is also something that is very good. Only bad thing now for infils is having to specc to 50 for stun of evade (although they have the pts for it)

Scouts
Massive dmg with bow. But most hit for crap in melee. Although with slam, FZ and RR5 RA its almost impossible to actually kill them. Either u die or they run away. Add stuff like IP and MoS on that. And a shield for blocking arrows.

Minstrels
Solo they require a good player to be able to actually kill anything. But put him with a scout or an infiltrator and u can take out alot of ppl.

Nightshades
Pain in the PIIIIIP over RR5. Remedy is in 99% of the cases an I-Win RA and they get it for free. Although their low str they hit hard and especially they hit fast. More difficult to kill now then in OF. Get a stun from evade at 25 specc.

Rangers
Best overall stealther imo. You got range, you got dualwield, FZ, IP, MoS etc.
Can kill fast both in melee and at range.

Hunters
My personal opinion is that they are far behind. Poor bow dmg most of the time and a 2h weapon against 3 outta 5 possible other stealthers make them hard to play.

Shadowblades
Only assasin with no stun from evade, for most SBs their mh + oh dmg = infils and nightshades mh dmg.
Rightfully decked out, haste and AF charges and they are only slightly after the other 2. Although when u are done with all the charges its time to start over again so almost never possible to actually use charges in combat.

Fixes I would like to see

La mechanics to be changed to 100% mh LA penalty oh only

Hunters to be given evade 3 and 1h spear + unspeccable shield

Stun from evade to SBs or put all stuns from evade in chain.

Lower heat penalty from 15% to 5 or 10%

 

[Leel]

My ns is R4L1 and only a semi good template, got 5 str cap, 6 dex cap, 5 con cap and 50 af, and max melee speed and normally red haste depending on what bb i use -P) and 4 style damage cuz of golden spear, however, I got 0 style damge and 7 toa haste when using lw. I also don't have shades of mist yet, using a cloak that gives me the all so necessary 3 stealth. And I think I'm doing pretty well. I think sb's are really really weak atm. Scouts can be a bitch due to slam and zephyr, guess I lose 2/3 of maybe times when they do that, when they are ALONE:-P Hunters are a bitch, even some of them at rr4. Infils at my own rr are quite doable I think, but they have an edge when relics aren't factored in. Mincers kill you if they zephyr you and know what to do. Anyways, having a lot of fun with my ns. I do pity the sb's though.

 

[Esha]

Die almost every time to the archer classes due to fz/stun styles.

The str relics effect the stealth wars so much i think its almost impossible to tell which realm has the best though (excluding mincer).

 

[VidX]

Nope, definitely isn't balance.

Simply due to the fact that this isn't a solo game, and Alb can make the best stealther groups. Mid don't have the damage output in a stealther group compared to Hib or Alb, and the addition of Mincers to the Alb template tips them over Hibs. Group ablative chant, DD, AE mezz, single mezz, stun shout, DD, DD, pet, chain... pointless tbh, remove stealth and they become balanced and stealther wars become interesting.

Can see how Shades can be tough to face, even though I've only played one up to Thid level, but Tickle definitely hits harder than I thought she would, and the RR5 ability looks, on paper, to be as overpowered in a stealther war as the Reaver one in a keep-take.

Alb > Hib >>> Mid this patch definitely.

 

[Eden]

The "new" Nightshades with 50 CS is equal to a inf these days imo (without relics). Ocf u will always have be better shades and the better Infs.

Most shadowbades are easy mode, but there is 4-5 of them (rr7+) that can give nice fights! Ya know who ya are ... Dwera hitted me for 466 main hand the other day on a anytime style, and Snorning for 500 etc so im not really sure if they deserve the str relics.

IMO take the ubah str relics away, give the SB str/dex based weaps or give them dex/str debuff envenom...

I dont really know much about Archers but in my eyes Ranger would be my recomendation if a friend asked what to roll

 

[Oldfaravid]

Infiltrators
Hunters
My personal opinion is that they are far behind. Poor bow dmg most of the time and a 2h weapon against 3 outta 5 possible other stealthers make them hard to play.

La mechanics to be changed to 100% mh LA penalty oh only

Hunters to be given evade 3 and 1h spear + unspeccable shield

Stun from evade to SBs or put all stuns from evade in chain.

Lower heat penalty from 15% to 5 or 10%

I wouldnt trade my 2hander for a 1 hander + shield.. specially not since the introduction of lgw... since NF I have won approximetly 90% of my 1 on 1 encounters vs assassins.. MoS 3 + IP2 +Purge2 aug dex 1.. If RAs are up those infils and ns will die if the evade dont work against me.. The hunter can be a real hardhitter with spear ask around how people like being hit bye Svartur (olddays) and Snornig (these days).. I am currently very happy with the way the hunter works.. sure we dont do as much dmg with bow but since I 99% of time solo and wander around my bow is just for "pulling".. sure its nice to hit people in keepdef for 900+ havent hit 1000 yet currently going for a more melee spec.. against other archers well thats a different deal think ive lost aprox 90% of those since I always seem to get FZ...

And the whole stealther discussion of balance.. there never was much balance was there.. comparing the classes one bye one is ok overall but the SB hasnt really got that thing that makes it good enough to really compete.. However when you look at the classes togheter you realize the sillyness of daoc..

This is my most hated subject in daoc.. A stealther CLASS wearing CHAIN.. on top of it they gave the chainwearer safe fall thats just stupid and to top it off being able to do CC in stealther battles just right out blows any form of balance in this game. Speed available also just makes it even more silly since the stealth crew can move fast between locations.. the developers that came up with the minstrel class should have been fired long ago... If I was head producer of a mmorpg and one of my developers came in and told me he wanted to put in a 3d stealth class (for just one realm) then give it chain and speed and CC i would simply throw him out of the window of the building... :touch:

I am very much surprised the whines about the minstrel hasnt even made em to try and tweak the class.. But then again its a albion class and albion is the most played realm so they cant dare go in make changes to it..

 

[xxManiacxx]

I wouldnt trade my 2hander for a 1 hander + shield.. specially not since the introduction of lgw... since NF I have won approximetly 90% of my 1 on 1 encounters vs assassins.. MoS 3 + IP2 +Purge2 aug dex 1.. If RAs are up those infils and ns will die if the evade dont work against me.. The hunter can be a real hardhitter with spear ask around how people like being hit bye Svartur (olddays) and Snornig (these days).. I am currently very happy with the way the hunter works.. sure we dont do as much dmg with bow but since I 99% of time solo and wander around my bow is just for "pulling".. sure its nice to hit people in keepdef for 900+ havent hit 1000 yet currently going for a more melee spec.. against other archers well thats a different deal think ive lost aprox 90% of those since I always seem to get FZ...

And the whole stealther discussion of balance.. there never was much balance was there.. comparing the classes one bye one is ok overall but the SB hasnt really got that thing that makes it good enough to really compete.. However when you look at the classes togheter you realize the sillyness of daoc..

This is my most hated subject in daoc.. A stealther CLASS wearing CHAIN.. on top of it they gave the chainwearer safe fall thats just stupid and to top it off being able to do CC in stealther battles just right out blows any form of balance in this game. Speed available also just makes it even more silly since the stealth crew can move fast between locations.. the developers that came up with the minstrel class should have been fired long ago... If I was head producer of a mmorpg and one of my developers came in and told me he wanted to put in a 3d stealth class (for just one realm) then give it chain and speed and CC i would simply throw him out of the window of the building... :touch:

I am very much surprised the whines about the minstrel hasnt even made em to try and tweak the class.. But then again its a albion class and albion is the most played realm so they cant dare go in make changes to it..

What I meant was that you should be given the option to have a 1h spear + shield equipped, not to take away 2h spear.

 

[Poag]

After some experience in stealther-warfare I was wondering how others think about 'this' balance thing in stealther-fights; who's the strongest, who's the weakest?

Assassins:

* Infiltrator; obvious one of the strongest assassins; good assortment of races, most spec-points, spec-AF. One of the toughest enemies I imagine for all of us

Can't say as i am an alb thus don't fght them

* Shadowblade; pretty weak; except for a few exceptions; it seems shadowblades got alot harder time then infiltrators. A 'mediocre' shadowblade is 'utter crap' compared to an infiltrator it seems often when I fight these guys. 2H seems nice damage; but very tricky against high evade classes obviously. Really weak ?

Any SB worth his salt has a better than 50/50 chance of killing me...even more so if they are using LG or summoned weapons....if they aren't then they have a above average chance of dieing 1v1.

Bascially if they can't kill me before the stun wears off i will 40% of the time either get away or kill them.

Not that many about, ones that i do run into are either high rr or n00bs...the high rrs obviously fair better.

* Nightshade; sneaky bastards, they suffer from low STR/CON races; but make up (do they?) by higher DEX; a uber nice RR5 RA in stealther wars, spec haste makes em fast swingers too. Never fight em; how are they ?

Same as the above for SBs....only noticeable difference is that there are more NS's with golden spears which make them annoying

Also see very few about

TBH tho, if i can i will avoid a fight with an assain...generally takes to long, i end up on single digit health % and 99% of the time they aren't alone....so its sheild trip and leggit time.



Archers:

* Scout; really good bow damage; and immune to other arrows which seems a BIG plus in New Frontiers/keepfights. Utter shit in melee in most typical specs; tho 9 sec anytime stun + FZ make it not an easy kill. Also the high spec in socialising nm

Tbh i don't think our bow damage is any higher than the hunter or ranger...you've said t urself puppet u crit caster for 1200...me to. Against me you've done about 800 as the highest crit iirc...done the same against you.
Any bow spec hunter [thats above 40] also does about the same....also as for range...i can't see much difference between the three realms anymore with the +bow range and height advantage. Hibs seem to hit me as far out from the keeps and towers as i hit them.

Also arrow immune...uh..no When i had 42 sheild i had maybe a 50% block rate against more that 2 archers. Now with NF there are never just two from any realm. More attackers means that 50% becomes 25% at best. Phase saves the day there.

* Hunter; mediocre bow damage; but melee HURTS on classes with little defense I would guess. Their magicline gives em some utility like a pet (nice!) and a typically better speedshout then rangers; which can be a major annoying thing. FZ + backstun = pain

Agree with you, in melee they do hurt but again if they using non lg weapons i can give them a run for there money. If they are all melee then there bow dmg isn't so nice..if they are evenly balenced with the other spec lines then they do hurt as much as scout/rangers in bow dmg.

* Rangers; probably the best (?) overall stealther? High damage from range; good melee; stun of evade and side-positional; access to FZ makes em bitches I imagine

Wouldn't say best, i would say most versatile. Kinda the jack of all trades. Bow isn't bad, melee they hurt but can be beaten...unless they use the lame of lames..IP

* Minstrel; the 'strange' one in the list. Has a bucketload and a truckload of utility in his music-spec making fights with em non-trivial in most cases. Chain armour + evade2+ shield + spec AF = tough nutter. Insta stun; mezz, DD's, throw in a pet and 'piss poor?' melee for most stealther-mincers. No access to MoS makes em easy to find (and to avoid)". Add a FZ to the arsenal of CC and SoS and high-RR minstrels cannot loose to other stealthers if they choose not to loose (feels like it to me). By far the best duo-partner any stealther can wish for I imagine ?

You can't really count on the micner sheild..they can't spec it so block about as much as a druid. Castable stun does give them the edge in a fight. Melee is ok and augmented by DD shouts. Doesn't have that many hits.


On the hits subject, i think alb is actually worse off...aside meby luri.

I mean on Thya i have 1887 hits fully buffed and with a 280 hits SC [couldn't get any mor ein without breaking the bank] I know Hunters and SBs have more than both infils and scouts. I seem to remeber Celt rangers having more hits aswell [i didn't make a luri ranger at 50 :<]

And i only touched on playing a NS at 48 but alrdy she had equal hits to my scout [she was a luri] i think she had 1800 odd...this was in SI, and you knew her puppet..infact you helped me get one of the rings for the SC

So in closing..imo yes they are pretty balenced, only thing that kinda not is population. IMO and seeing it from within the suppose alb scout z\erg..i think the scout pop is only slightly higher than the hib and mid...it just shows more as we do actually talk to each other and get into the same place so we can make more of the difference.

I mean 6 or 7 scouts on teamspeak assistign away will stop any tower attack dead...as has been shown before

-Gale

ps- I say lg weapons becuase i have a high PD level so conventional melee kinda get crappy dmg on me...also with my new scout spec i hit considerably harder in melee and havn't noticed any drop in my block rate...maybe when i leave i'll tell people what my new spec is

pps- my views on IP are my own...personally i don't think it should have been put in the game but thats my personal opinion.

 

[Marath]

Agree with grymligast there.

Patch faster so remedy goes from IWIN to blocking dots only.

Do something for laxe. Grym had nice though there. Atm biggest reason for sb damage suckage is the laxe penalty witch gets also applied to melee/style damage and relics. So more bonuses you have the more equal bonus sb gets behind. Nice planning on mythig there just.

 

[ev0_o]

Infil: Tough cookie, due to spec af, i find myself styling for 300-400 w/o debuff / crits etc, also nasty evade combo's, and belive me, they get to use a lot of them vs me

Scout: If i get the jump in melee, i win or they run, that simple, cant say a solo scout has killed me for a while, since if they start shooting i start running in the other direction, and come back with pet on agro when my HP is back. Main downpoint.. is the /invite xxx button seems to be bugged on most of them, and they seem to inv any scouts they see..odd that

Mincer: Carp is always a good fight think i won a duel with him just (no FZ) as for the rest of the mincers, they seem to have the same bug as the scouts

NS: Low rr, its like RP with free delivery, they also seem to evade a lot less than infils do, and since no spec AF im happily pulling 400-500 a fight w/o crits

Rangers: Low rr, dear me, give me 3 on a plate and im back for more What can i say, the only other stealther class who's defense is as gimped as my own and when im swinging a big spear at them, it cant be good. Few high rr rangers are nasty, specially when using LW's

SB's: Not the easiest class, gimped at birth, takes a good player to master these, have to choose weap spec or env, v few spec for 39LA for stun.

Hunters: After loosing AP / full IP etc kinda got relegated to server bitch, Feel sorry for any hunters without FZ or Battler on their hip, Evade2 is nowhere near enough defense, Bow dmg doesnt have range nor dmg of Alb/Hib, But spear dmg is good, ofc theres the problem of it landing (2 scouts i met cross blocking eachother for e.g) and the evade rates from infils ( my p.b is 11 evades in a row, ironicly i still won tho ) That aside, my dmg ranges from 300-920, So cant complain, Still prefer hunter over any other stealther i've played. Whatever floats your boat i guess

 

[Rohac]

As an inf my worst enemy right now is rangers. Hit like a NS but have (many of them atleast) FZ,IP

In OF i could atleast get PA off to make the fight even.

 

[Marath]

NS: Low rr, its like RP with free delivery, they also seem to evade a lot less than infils do, and since no spec AF im happily pulling 400-500 a fight w/o crits

Rangers: Low rr, dear me, give me 3 on a plate and im back for more What can i say, the only other stealther class who's defense is as gimped as my own and when im swinging a big spear at them, it cant be good. Few high rr rangers are nasty, specially when using LW's

Heh without using battler/malice these give sbs a world of trouple now with relics. Lost the other day to a rr3 ranger hitting me 250 main hand debuffed.
(My lw damage didnt break 200 on him). And was a close call to a rr3 ns that had been rezzed and field buffed 2minutes ago hitting me 230-250 a pop while debuffed and 1 300 crit main hand only. (Had ~10% hp after I used purge against him lol).

 

[Tir]

Tbh i don't think our bow damage is any higher than the hunter or ranger...you've said t urself puppet u crit caster for 1200...me to. Against me you've done about 800 as the highest crit iirc...done the same against you.
Any bow spec hunter [thats above 40] also does about the same....also as for range...i can't see much difference between the three realms anymore with the +bow range and height advantage. Hibs seem to hit me as far out from the keeps and towers as i hit them.

I have to point out here that you are wrong about the damage, no hunter can achieve the same damage as a scout or a ranger and this is nothing to do with spec, but the ridiculous fact the fastest bow in mid is 5.3 speed compared to 5.8 in the other 2 realms. Hunters archery isn't sub-par, but the equipement is.

Anyway, that's my particular pet hate out of the way.

Balance in stealther fights is a difficult thing to look at.

Out of the archers I would say rangers have the advantage over scouts and hunters. Strong melee and great bow damage. In keeps scouts are better than hunters, but in the open field hunters would probably be the better choice.

Don't fight SB's, but in the assassins world damn do relics make a massive difference. In OF, I would, without question have said Infs were far superior to NS's, but boy do NS's hurt with the relics now.

Both alb and hib have the better BB's for end game, spec AF or spec haste. I don't know enough about duel wield mechanics to get into the issue of which realms is better for that.

Alb then have mincers, in group stealth warfare the single most imbalancing thing. However, solo it depends on the mincer. A good mincer is very, very good. An ok one is worth a crack for my hunter.

Anyway, in conclusion relics > than all. RR makes a massive difference in any fight and RA's and ML's can be and are fight winners.

 

[Panthera]

To me it seems very odd this game, I am myself a fully ToA´d and sc´d RR7 inf with battler and malice, still I see very varying results in fights...

The other day I faced 2 rangers, I managed to get in close on the first one he fz´d still took him down whilst the other shooted at me, also got the other down due to SoM beein active and proccing, did decent dmg in melee...

Met Marath the other day also...he just teard me appart...nice hits from him up to 250 - 300 dmg a hit...checked my hits on him and noticed I hit for 65 dmg..ooo..beats me how I hit that badly, beeing slash specced and all I usually do very good against sb´s but the equation sometimes really messes up...

So basicly in some fights I do tremendous dmg..even against high rr´s and in some I can barely hurt em..beats me why it is like this...

 

[Azathrim]

Met Marath the other day also...he just teard me appart...nice hits from him up to 250 - 300 dmg a hit...checked my hits on him and noticed I hit for 65 dmg..ooo..beats me how I hit that badly, beeing slash specced and all I usually do very good against sb´s but the equation sometimes really messes up....

That sounds like he used Battler charge.