'Stealth Wars'?

[Jaem-]

As most preople refer to the so called 'Stealth Wars' being a sub game within Daoc rvr, do you think mythic ever really intended this to be?

In my view stealthers should be the sort of class that pops from nowhere to effectively kill an unsuspecting melle weak target - did that concept simply get lost with the way rvr evolved or was it never the intention.

if stealthers could not see each other when stealthed as a normal char then 'stealth wars' really would probably not exist.

Seems daft that all stealthers really aim to do is fight other stealthers, thanks to SH and shortly MoS in NF.

Intention, oversight or just evolution of rvr? could the current implementation be improved?

I don't like it "stealth wars", can't shoot what you can't see. :<

 

[Arnor]

...for about one pulse reliably, even at RR11. After which it's on you like a dose of something unpleasant you caught off that dodgy looking girl at the drunken party. And trust me, the last thing you need in RvR - or PvE - is a pissed off purple pet adding on you.

but it is possible, and at rr11 you can keep a lowpurp for more then one pulse im pretty sure

All of which depends, of course, on (1) your target being solo, (2) them being stupid enough to even think about the pet instead of attacking *you*. And either way, unless you are very good at key juggling, you will be dead. And if you are good at key juggling, you deserve to win in my book.

Which takes more skill to do: winning using a pet as you describe above, or stealthing up behind someone and getting off a couple of poisoned hits? Yes, minstrels have lots of toys: and that means they're complex to play.

first off, you said they were solo, and not that a mincer cant kill anything but soloers.
and no, pet?
you charge, they qc stun on you(like you said) or archer starts shooting. Pet aggros them the instant you get hit with anything, or you put pet on attack the instant they come into 1500 range. capiche?

and im not saying mincer is a noskill class, we all know they are one of the harder classes to play in daoc. But they sure as hell get rewarded for it.

Oh yeah - if you have a buffed pet, you're pretty damn tough (I don't have a buffbot, so I'm not). But not as as tough as two animists and a gibbon, which I hear are capable of soloing the dragon.

no buffbot=you dont count, im sorry but its le truth.

Well exactamundo, my leetle Arnor-esque chum.

still doesnt take any uber away from you, mincers are fucking uber. (or atleast have the potential to be)

 

[Spix]

ok I take it again since some people are unable to see how it realy is.

The problem itself is not if skald, minstrel or bard is better then another in melee or support it is when they are better. A skald can easily be replaced in a fg when it comes to damage dealing, same as minstrels cc is not on top for fg wars, what keeps them in are speedsong.
Try add a skald to a stealth group... possible ofc but then it isnt a stealth group anymore and skald would get bored pretty quick since zerg or fgs would have no mercy on him.
The problem with minstrels are there are no counterpart when stealthers group up and it has become pretty standard to run duo or more.

The pet part was a typo from me, It should be minstrel are 100% better CHARM class then any mid. I never said it is very useful in rvr but still it is there.

And loxley, to be on giving side is the same nomatter if you group or not. You dont have to face minstrel and scout/inf groups every time you leave the TK, that makes your life alot easier.

I have no problem getting ganked by a fg of infils/scouts or solo whatever but when you face 1 minstrel and 1 infil you cant even attack back, go figure. Atm it is realy fun when minstrel and infils just run straight up to you unstealthed in speed5 and stun, zephyr, mezz or grapple you and then run off and think they were uber good players ganking a solo hunter with camo down flawless.
And albs wonder why mid stealthers avoid running alone?

It is not any of albs fault and I would ofc use minstrel aswell if I could, but it doesnt change the fact it makes fights very unfair/imbalanced.


And yeah IM pissed at the situation...

 

[Gordonax]

but it is possible, and at rr11 you can keep a lowpurp for more then one pulse im pretty sure

It really isn't worth it, to be honest: over the course of a fight, it's almost guaranteed to turn on you. Even at RR11, a high-orange/low-red is going to deliver virtually everything you can get from a purple.

you charge, they qc stun on you(like you said) or archer starts shooting. Pet aggros them the instant you get hit with anything, or you put pet on attack the instant they come into 1500 range. capiche?

Oui, mes amis. But if you're facing a stunning caster, you're dead before the pet gets to them - and if you're lucky, and the pet makes it before you're dead, there's this thing called moc, right...

As for archers... if you get the drop on an archer, you're pretty likely to kill him if you have FZ (and he doesn't). However, given that you're either not stealthed (if you're trailing a pet around) or stealthed with the kind of level of stealth that gives other stealthers convulsions of laughter, you're probably going to be spotted.

and im not saying mincer is a noskill class, we all know they are one of the harder classes to play in daoc. But they sure as hell get rewarded for it.

But isn't that a fair trade off?

no buffbot=you dont count, im sorry but its le truth.

Well given that the only time I stealth is to get round the back of groups and annoy the healers or when climbing walls, I don't really count anyway Like I've said before, I think the stealth wars are dull. I very rarely face other stealthers, and when I do I'm solo and they're not, which means I die.

still doesnt take any uber away from you, mincers are fucking uber. (or atleast have the potential to be)

They have lots of toys which, if used correctly, give you an advantage - but there's so much potential to fuck up while using them (from the basics, like missing FZ, through to the hard stuff like juggling songs, mezzing, pets and stealthing all in one fight) that most minstrels only learn a couple of tricks. The really good ones, I suspect, would be really good and hard to beat no matter what class they were, because they'd learn every trick that any other class could use, and use them to full advantage.

Trouble is that too many Hib/Mid stealther seem to believe that minstrels have a magic one button insta-win, when in fact that isn't true.