'Stealth Wars'?

Light

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
692
As most preople refer to the so called 'Stealth Wars' being a sub game within Daoc rvr, do you think mythic ever really intended this to be?

In my view stealthers should be the sort of class that pops from nowhere to effectively kill an unsuspecting melle weak target - did that concept simply get lost with the way rvr evolved or was it never the intention.

if stealthers could not see each other when stealthed as a normal char then 'stealth wars' really would probably not exist.

Seems daft that all stealthers really aim to do is fight other stealthers, thanks to SH and shortly MoS in NF.

Intention, oversight or just evolution of rvr? could the current implementation be improved? ;)
 

Gear

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Apr 20, 2004
Messages
3,579
Light said:
Seems daft that all stealthers really aim to do is fight other stealthers

I don't! I get easily powned by non stealthers as well :)
 

Aybabtu

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
646
Not that many melee week solo'ers out there to feed the masses....Gotta pray on something
 

Aloca

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,585
It is the way the game evolved, if stealthers didnt fight each others they wouldnt have anything else to do except add on fights.
And then the FG rvr people would complain that their "skill" wouldnt matter but instead the amount of stealther adds each side got
 

Light

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
692
how about if stealthers couldn't group at all, more fitting their usual fantasy story role - that suggestion is sure to be flamed ;)

suppose a mins would have to choose his path heh

be a bitch to level tho .. no PL for thee :)

certainly help the inflated population tho :p
 

Aybabtu

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
646
Would certainly stop the lvl'ing of infils and they wouldn be able to get any ML's and some artis i think :) ...... Think what's needed is a new frontier and looking forward to it :) as atm there are to many bottlenecks, MG's and Portel Keeps. All it takes for a stealthzerg to raise is 2 stealthers, someone is bound to wanna bring more and more and then it goes :)
 

Aloca

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,585
Problem is also that most other classes get mroe boosts than stealthers:
Armsman: tough but can be killed usualy.
Paladin: a do not touch if dont have end regen potions
Mercenary: DT = win
Reaver: Hard no purge usualy means loss
Cleric: Usualy easy kill
Friar: Tough specialy with ap and ip, can kill tho
Infiltrator: overpowerd :D
Minstrel: cant realy kill if they have Ra's up
Scout: easy kill in melee usualy. prefer purge up
Cabalist: GL if the pet proc stun on you
Sorcerer: moc lifetap anyone?
Theurgist: need to be quick on qc+root usualy easy target.
Wizard: same as theurg
Necromancer : unbuffed easy, buffed /rel.
Not touch or very hard: 7/14

Berserker: ouch can kill but they hit hard.
Skald:hard tank usualy easier than berz tho. can be killed
Thane: dont know
Warrior: tough tank can be killed tho.
Savage: can realy hurt if lucky, land a nice stun on them and you can win quite easy tho
Healer: easy class to kill
Shaman: no cripling poison and shamans can be impossible to kill.
Hunter: weak mostly
Shadowblade:disregaring str relic very weak, but with str relics they are a equal with ns
Runemaster: can be killed. caster need to be awake. (same and theurg/wizz)
Spiritmaster: intercept pet..can be killed but often caster have enough time to either qc something or moc, both usualy leads to your death.
Bonedancer. can be killed either with a hard dmg opening or with aoe mezz poisons-.
Not touch or very hard: 7/12

No comment on hib classes
Bard
Druid
Warden
Blademaster
Hero
Champion
Eldritch
Enchanter
Mentalist
Nightshade
Ranger
Animist
Valewalker
 

Loxleyhood

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,228
As a stealther you primarily fight other stealthers. That's basically what the stealth wars are.
 

Aloca

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,585
Loxleyhood said:
As a stealther you primarily fight other stealthers. That's basically what the stealth wars are.
Duh, thx for the most obvius comment in this thread.
 

Aybabtu

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
646
Infil POV, it's as i remember it, haven't done that much lately as there is Artis that need lvl'ing :(


Bard: Need Purge up as insta mezz usually is up + if they get just a tad away from you and starts end song they are really hard to catch again
Druid: Depends on spec, DOt's roots and insta heals can be a pain but really shouldn't be a problem if you know what your doing
Warden: Well, easy imho
Blademaster: unbuffed they are a walk in the park, buffed is a different storie
Hero: Not impossible just gotta outlive Ip and Moose :)
Champion: debuffs can be noticed but not breaking that much sweat
Eldritch: Caster really should be dead before they start casting :)
Enchanter: same as above
Mentalist: as above
Nightshade: Maybe it's just me but depending on RR, 1-5 and they drop fairly easy, above and the make you work for the Rp's
Ranger: Might lose if Ip is up
Animist: Almost as other casters although with all dem shooms they could be a potential killer, maybe not before you kill them but you'll need to get away again :)
Valewalker: Not fought that many but those i have hasn't been a problem
 

Archeon

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
2,047
I think if you look to Thid (bg1) you can see, atleast in my minds eye what Mythic had intended for Stealthers. 2 zergs fighting/standing off, Stealthers will be both popping 'invading' stealthers as well as 'invading' the other zerg (invade is just such a cool word I have to use it :D) and taking out long range casters.

I think the way Emain (lvl50) RvR has evolved based around 'skilled' (no comment) FGvFG RvR has left Stealthers w/o these caster targets. Typically in 8v8 players are more aware and the chances of a Stealther being able to assasinate a caster and get away are somwhere in the regions of slim to none. Meaning instead they have to prey on each other, because of the whole 'not being able to see each other' they tend to accumulate around landmarks (MG's for example) and search for enemy stealthers there - and of course, the more stealthers in the area the more chance that 'duels' will be added on.


In short, the Stealthwars are only really a part of a Stealthers function. However, due to the nature of Emain RvR its more or less the only function stealthers can effectivly purform.

Just my thoughts atleast.
 

Aloca

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,585
If NF turn out to be as we hear from US assassins will again be a class that sneak up to enemy kill a caster and leg it hoping none mezz/stun/root/grapple or no brittleguards,intercepting pets, bodyguards.

Thing is also due the stealther wars many speced into the tank spec with stealth. .(no critical strike) with this spec you easier kill other assassins but you cant kill a caster that fast.
 

Light

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
692
also notice that often in thid as u say it is actually possible to make a kill near fg's fast enough to also get away

Archeon said:
In short, the Stealthwars are only really a part of a Stealthers function. However, due to the nature of Emain RvR its more or less the only function stealthers can effectivly purform.

agree, and don't think it was the vision Mythic devs had but can't really see anyway to change it
 

Smilewhenyousaythat

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
770
'Stealthwars' isn't recognised by mythic.

I never rolled my stelther to 'duel' with other stealthers - I'm a skirmisher. I hang around on the outskirts of fights picking off support or weakened characters. Nothing I love more then hitting a healer with disease - sure they'll run off and I'm gonna get cc'd but they normally don't realise they're diseased and when the tanks turn up the other healers can't keep up with the damage.

I love seeing a healer punded to an oily smear.

Anyway - 'stealthwars'. Doesn't exist - artificial category created by 'l33t d00ds' (aka yank morons).
 

Aloca

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,585
Old days with 1 hit kill and such you could quite easy take out a caster in a grp and continue to next. problem is that you not close to that dmg % now and the stay stealthed isnt ingame anymore
 

Aybabtu

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
646
Aloca said:
Old days with 1 hit kill and such you could quite easy take out a caster in a grp and continue to next. problem is that you not close to that dmg % now and the stay stealthed isnt ingame anymore

Those were the days :D
 

Loxleyhood

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,228
Aloca said:
Duh, thx for the most obvius comment in this thread.

In case you missed my point I'm implying that stealth wars don't really have any kind of their own culture. So what's up? Time of the month?
 

Puppet

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
3,232
Aloca said:
Problem is also that most other classes get mroe boosts than stealthers:
Armsman: tough but can be killed usualy.
Paladin: a do not touch if dont have end regen potions
Mercenary: DT = win
Reaver: Hard no purge usualy means loss
Cleric: Usualy easy kill
Friar: Tough specialy with ap and ip, can kill tho
Infiltrator: overpowerd :D
Minstrel: cant realy kill if they have Ra's up
Scout: easy kill in melee usualy. prefer purge up
Cabalist: GL if the pet proc stun on you
Sorcerer: moc lifetap anyone?
Theurgist: need to be quick on qc+root usualy easy target.
Wizard: same as theurg
Necromancer : unbuffed easy, buffed /rel.
Not touch or very hard: 7/14

Berserker: ouch can kill but they hit hard.
Skald:hard tank usualy easier than berz tho. can be killed
Thane: dont know
Warrior: tough tank can be killed tho.
Savage: can realy hurt if lucky, land a nice stun on them and you can win quite easy tho
Healer: easy class to kill
Shaman: no cripling poison and shamans can be impossible to kill.
Hunter: weak mostly
Shadowblade:disregaring str relic very weak, but with str relics they are a equal with ns
Runemaster: can be killed. caster need to be awake. (same and theurg/wizz)
Spiritmaster: intercept pet..can be killed but often caster have enough time to either qc something or moc, both usualy leads to your death.
Bonedancer. can be killed either with a hard dmg opening or with aoe mezz poisons-.
Not touch or very hard: 7/12

Bard: Need Purge up as insta mezz usually is up + if they get just a tad away from you and starts end song they are really hard to catch again
Druid: Depends on spec, DOt's roots and insta heals can be a pain but really shouldn't be a problem if you know what your doing
Warden: Well, easy imho
Blademaster: unbuffed they are a walk in the park, buffed is a different storie
Hero: Not impossible just gotta outlive Ip and Moose
Champion: debuffs can be noticed but not breaking that much sweat
Eldritch: Caster really should be dead before they start casting
Enchanter: same as above
Mentalist: as above
Nightshade: Maybe it's just me but depending on RR, 1-5 and they drop fairly easy, above and the make you work for the Rp's
Ranger: Might lose if Ip is up
Animist: Almost as other casters although with all dem shooms they could be a potential killer, maybe not before you kill them but you'll need to get away again
Valewalker: Not fought that many but those i have hasn't been a problem



READ: I can kill everything almost if I got AE-mezz poison (check for every ML9 shade) or endurance-regen pot in some other cases.

Guess thats wrong with stealthers: Basically they kill everything :p
 

Loxleyhood

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,228
Oh well, this looks fun.

Berserker: Easy to kill. Take lots of damage from bow and always run into Zephyr.
Skald: Can be tricky. Don't take too much damage from bow and interrupts and stuns are always a problem.
Thane: Harder than the other shield tanks due to their ability to interrupt me from range and negate my defence with their DDs.
Warrior: Always run into zephyr and MSG arrows help to avoid shield. Easy.
Savage: Easy. Take lots of damage from bow and run into zephyr.
Healer: Easy. Unless they mes and fetch zerg.
Shaman: Easy. Just make sure you use Sureshot a bit so you don't get interrupted.
Hunter: Easy. Can't beat me in melee or archery.
Shadowblade: Easy. With the exception of a critblade who gets PA and CD off.
Runemaster: Easy.
Spiritmaster: Can be tricky. Very, very important that you kill the SM before his pet reaches you.
Bonedancer. Impossible.


Bard: Easy. Take lots of damage.
Druid: Easy, but can get complicated if the pet interrupts you.
Warden: Haven't fought one in ages. Kinda annoying pbt.
Blademaster: Harder than Zerks, but still suffer from the tank 'let's run into zephyr' syndrome.
Hero: Easier than warriors.
Champion: Can actually be very annoying. Their debuffs might cause trouble if he reaches melee.
Eldritch: Easy.
Enchanter: Tricky. Like SMs, it's important to kill the Enchanter before the pet reaches you.
Mentalist: wtf? Easy I should imagine.
Nightshade: Zephyr them and they take arrows up the arse as good as anyone else. Otherwise near impossible if they have purge.
Ranger: Easy. Tricky if it comes down to melee.
Animist: Can be tricky if you don't do things right. Just make sure you're not in shroom range. Otherwise just another 1k.
Valewalker: God knows. Haven't seen one in months.
 

Aybabtu

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
646
READ: I can kill everything almost if I got AE-mezz poison (check for every ML9 shade) or endurance-regen pot in some other cases.

Guess thats wrong with stealthers: Basically they kill everything :p

Yes we have great potential but the question is how many times will we get a chance to kill one :)
 

Framfall

Banned
Joined
Aug 19, 2004
Messages
188
Armsman: Easy
Paladin: Easy
Mercenary: Easy
Reaver: Easy
Cleric: Easy
Friar: Easy
Infiltrator: Easy
Minstrel: Easy
Scout: Super Easy
Cabalist: Easy
Sorcerer: Easy
Theurgist: Easy
Wizard: Easy
Necromancer :Easy

Grogan:Hard, must have SoM and purge up and pref snare poison.
 

Tholus

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
210
Aybabtu said:
Blademaster: unbuffed they are a walk in the park, buffed is a different storie

There was a time I enjoyed solo walks in Odins with my Blademaster.
Was very fun.

Now the choice of not having a BB simply canceled this (small) part of game enjoyment for me.
Not a big deal, I like the "social" part of the game anyway.

But the fact that any gimped RR1 fully buffed stealther (so ANY stealther) can just use an unbuffed Blademaster as "a walk in the park" gives me a bad feelings...
 

Aybabtu

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
646
Tholus said:
There was a time I enjoyed solo walks in Odins with my Blademaster.
Was very fun.

Now the choice of not having a BB simply canceled this (small) part of game enjoyment for me.
Not a big deal, I like the "social" part of the game anyway.

But the fact that any gimped RR1 fully buffed stealther (so ANY stealther) can just use an unbuffed Blademaster as "a walk in the park" gives me a bad feelings...

Don't blame infils for starting useing bbs, i for one felt it nesessary to compete (sad: yes :() but that's the way the gamer evolves, was a time where my Arms could get RP's in Emain as lvl 40 solo
:eek7:

Guess it's a matter of adapting :(
 

tookha

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
1,118
Loxleyhood said:
Skald: Can be tricky. Don't take too much damage from bow and interrupts and stuns are always a problem.

Spiritmaster: Can be tricky. Very, very important that you kill the SM before his pet reaches you.

Since when did skalds get stun? :p

And every spiritmaster not knowing how to set pet to passive and qc/cast mez deserves to die anyhow :)
 

Neo

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
809
I dont think stealthers ever was intended to be as powerfull as they are right now.. When Mythic made our beloved stealthers they didnt have Bots in mind. And IMO a stealther class shouldnt be capable of taking out a "normal" tank class, buffed or not. They just didnt predict how powerfull stealther would be with capped buffs/capped SC. And now we r stuck with em.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom