Sorcs Teamleader?

[Apathy]

I'm not the one saying sorcerers are gimped; I think that it is simply that the other main CC classes completely out-power the sorcerer.

If you've got a problem with YOUR class, take it elsewhere and whinge. Because you're basically saying "Sorcerers are overpowered because they have a one-shot self bladeturn! OMG! I PEED MAH PANTS!".

Root is completely different to stun. Of the three main CC classes, only healers have it. Root can be broken by the tick tick tick effect of damage shields, by people whacking willy nilly, by AoE/PB/GT/DD spells.

And since you brought up the subject of base spells...bards get remove mezz, two amnesia instants, a faster-casting single target mezz, heals, buffs...

Sorcerer AF buff is 1 lvl behind other casters. Most casters get SBT and DA and that's nothing special. How lame can you get...saying that part of the non-gimpiness of the sorcerer is down to something that EVERYONE has.

The pet is debuffed upon charming and you have to spec for that. So even the top charm will only get you a lvl 42/44 pet, technically. And that's if it was lvl 50 to begin with. Anyone seen a lvl 50 loghery man recently? No, thought not.

Here's an idea...why don't you take your 40+ CC chars and get them to 50 and then go do some REAL RvR. Believe it or not, Emain isn't anything like doing goblin pulls at all, which is what you are probably basing your "opinion" on.

~rolls eyes~

a.
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[kameh]

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
I'm not the one saying sorcerers are gimped; I think that it is simply that the other main CC classes completely out-power the sorcerer.

The other main CC classes are primarily healing and/or song classes. So comparing them directly isnt really possible. We were talking mainly about mez/CC capabilities so pulling in the rest of the skills/spells seems a bit feeble.

If you've got a problem with YOUR class, take it elsewhere and whinge. Because you're basically saying "Sorcerers are overpowered because they have a one-shot self bladeturn! OMG! I PEED MAH PANTS!".

I dont think sorcerers are over powered at all. I think they're a very good class that's been indirectly nerfed like every other CC capable class in the game. First it was stealthers, now CC classes soon they'll nerf tanks because they hit too often or something stupid..

Root is completely different to stun. Of the three main CC classes, only healers have it. Root can be broken by the tick tick tick effect of damage shields, by people whacking willy nilly, by AoE/PB/GT/DD spells.

Root's crap - yup unless its used cleverly and you have a good group that understand not to hit tanks that are rooted (but anyone with /effects self or none will probably whack/cast them stupid)

And since you brought up the subject of base spells...bards get remove mezz, two amnesia instants, a faster-casting single target mezz, heals, buffs...

What offensive spells/skills do bards get? it's a completely different class, we were talking about CC spells - amnesia does sod all in RvR, the faster casting single target mez can still be beaten by a QC sorc AOE or single target mez.. your point?

Sorcerer AF buff is 1 lvl behind other casters. Most casters get SBT and DA and that's nothing special. How lame can you get...saying that part of the non-gimpiness of the sorcerer is down to something that EVERYONE has.

Not everyone has it, it adds to your class and therefor takes away from your so called "gimpness". That's how I can say that.

The pet is debuffed upon charming and you have to spec for that. So even the top charm will only get you a lvl 42/44 pet, technically. And that's if it was lvl 50 to begin with. Anyone seen a lvl 50 loghery man recently? No, thought not.

Again completely not CC related but since I raised it.. you mean your pets still several levels more powerful than any midgard hunters pet? it's really gimped then..

Here's an idea...why don't you take your 40+ CC chars and get them to 50 and then go do some REAL RvR. Believe it or not, Emain isn't anything like doing goblin pulls at all, which is what you are probably basing your "opinion" on.

An alb that cant debate without becoming offensive or childish? I wonder why you all think your gimped. RvR from 40+ is the same if your playing against similar leveled people. I love it when people say "get to 50 cos your opinions dont matter until then" strangely enough I usually only hear that from albions. The fact is that many people hit 50 and expect to be invincible killing machines.

Sorcerer's like many other classes will be weakened because of mez resistances but isnt it fair that some people have a CHANCE of resisting?

 

[Apathy]

Amnesia does "sod all in RvR", does it?

Oh dear...at the risk of seeming childish and/or offensive, perhaps you really SHOULD go play a bit more and come back when you know just how useful amnesia is.

Get to 50 before you start trying to discuss this. Not because being <50 means your opinions don't matter, but because you simply do not have enough end-game RvR experience to even begin taking the "Everything is peachy and just a never-ending series of nerfs and loves which keeps all in balance" stance. At least, not without making yourself come across as someone who has only seen the char builder for a bard and a sorcerer and come to all his conclusions about both classes from that.

Bards can also spec in a weapon, you know. Well, maybe you don't know. Maybe that's just something they get at level 50...

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[kameh]

Bards that spec in weapons for RvR gimp themselves as they cant have as nice songs or CC ( I did point this out earlier).

Would you like to tell me what amnesia is meant to do in RvR since your obviously so knowledgable.. I know it's meant to make a tank have a chance of losing thier target until they hit "nearest target button". Hmm sounds like such an ace spell. I guess that never gets resisted and is a win button too then? In FACT it gets resisted a lot due to it only being a level 42/43 spell.

Get to 50 before you start trying to discuss this. Not because being <50 means your opinions don't matter, but because you simply do not have enough end-game RvR experience to even begin taking the "Everything is peachy and just a never-ending series of nerfs and loves which keeps all in balance" stance.

funny that I've had 3 level 50 characters..

Here's something I think you WILL agree with me on:

Mythic should stop weakening classes the way they are, tweaking the smallest thing to weaken 1 class has effects on several others indirectly. They nerf mez and that his at least 3 classes rather hard, some harder than others (CC spec'd healers anyone?). Now that CC is weaker it means that the other classes become slightly stronger over all and effects of realm abilities is even more profound. Since DAOC was launched in the US I've watched Mythic piss about with classes, usually wasting a few for months at a time as they fiddle here and there and never really think things through.

As far as balance goes it's never been right and it never will be. Simply because of the population balance in the servers... Its a numbers game most of the time.

 

[soullessminion]

Ok my sorce is only lev 23 but have to say its most fun iv'e had in Daoc, but a few points.

1 amnesia DOES work in rvrv, used it non stop on my bard, spent ages just useing it to yell at poor smite clerics who tryed to smite me

2 Have played ALL the pet classes, and Sorcerer pets are by far superior, ok you don't get a base cast range no los pet (unless you go find one). But hey maybe im odd in that I enjoy searching for fun pets.

3 WTF is this our pet is nerfed when charmed, get real I charm a yellow to me pet and it kicks the liveing crap out of its yellow cone clone mobs.

Ok sorce has its problems, No insta mezz but hey its all the more sweet when it lands Don't get me wrong im not a fan boy, infact my old mid guild Blizzard used to constantly tell me to stop sulking at my class

Only problem Alb has for classes are the sad power gammer kidys who only make these classes.

Assassin - OMG IM UBER IM GONA KILL EVERYONE, YOU ALL SUCK ME NEED GROUP!!!!!

Cabalist - OMG IM SO UBER I CAN SOLO TANGLERS AND FARM RPS WITH AE DOT!!!! (please read cabalist as Albs new answer to Thane)

Friar - But everyone said friars rocked so how am I dead ?

90% of Alb -- If you do sorce spec full body and 25 mind, your DD will rock (This is followed by FFS MEZZ YOU GIMP)



Soprano Sorceress
Shadowlords Society/excal

I'm a Sorce if I wanted a uber DD I would be a bloody Wizzy!!!

 

[kameh]

Keep playing for fun mate that's what it's all about

 

[Apathy]

Originally posted by kameh
Bards that spec in weapons for RvR gimp themselves as they cant have as nice songs or CC ( I did point this out earlier).

They can still spec into it and do more damage with even 1 in a weapon skill and their buffs than a sorc using a staff. Each successful hit = 3s interrupt.

Would you like to tell me what amnesia is meant to do in RvR since your obviously so knowledgable.. I know it's meant to make a tank have a chance of losing thier target until they hit "nearest target button". Hmm sounds like such an ace spell. I guess that never gets resisted and is a win button too then? In FACT it gets resisted a lot due to it only being a level 42/43 spell.

See, you really ARE trying to provoke me into being rude..."it's meant to make a tank have a chance of losing thier target" has to be one of THE most stupid things I've ever read.

Amnesia, since you are so hopelessly without a clue, simply interrupts a caster whislt casting.

It has 2300 range and is AoE. Sorcs and bards get the same spell except...bards have it as an instant. It's an INSTANT INTERRUPT. See my point here? If a sorc resists your insta mezz, just amnesia their QC (Because you can bet your sweet ass the next spell is being QC'd.) and start casting your own mezz. Bard wins every time.

funny that I've had 3 level 50 characters..

But obviously none of them sorcerers or bards.

Here's something I think you WILL agree with me on:

Mythic should stop weakening classes the way they are, tweaking the smallest thing to weaken 1 class has effects on several others indirectly. They nerf mez and that his at least 3 classes rather hard, some harder than others (CC spec'd healers anyone?). Now that CC is weaker it means that the other classes become slightly stronger over all and effects of realm abilities is even more profound. Since DAOC was launched in the US I've watched Mythic piss about with classes, usually wasting a few for months at a time as they fiddle here and there and never really think things through.

I agree. But Mythic have it hard. There is so much feedback from the customer base that filtering out the noise has to be an IMMENSE task. Yes, there are TLs but a fair few of those are just...well...in it for as much love as possible for their class. There is so much player bias that the genuinely good ideas get lost in the dross.

Until Mythic employ and pay people to professionaly test their game and PLAY it to get feedback, things are always going to suck that little bit more each patch.

Ask a Mythic employee if he'd rather play a sorcerer or a bard. Assuming he even knows what you're talking about, I bet the answer would be "Bard! BAAAARD!" each time.

But I wouldn't swap my sorcerer for a bard, ever. I love my class and, with the right backup, I will win every single time. But that's rare to come across.

The source of my frustration is that the other realms' main CC classes overwhelm the sorcerer with superior survivability, versatility and all requiring less skill to play.

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[kameh]

But isnt the reason they usually survive more down to the fact that the other realms CC classes aren't mages?

Healers have immense hit points, almost always have a shield equiped and bards have better-than-paper armor and higher hit points in general. These classes can survive longer but neither of them can do real damage to the other side on thier own. You say that a bard can use weapons.. yes he can but whilst he's doing that his group lose the use of the songs. I've also noticed that you've completely missed out the DD shout that bards get, it's an extremely useful spell.

So lets looks at the shouts.. bards get them because generally whilst they're doing CC they're healing/running about to get away from tanks (from experience). The mez shouts are 90% used for defense unless the bard/healer is VERY confident in his group or doesnt expect to live long anyway. Lets face it unless you know your group well you'll rarely expect to live 30-45mins in emain.

Regardless of how you look at it or compare it to other CC classes the fact remains that the sorcerer is a very diverse class and one that's bloody hard to play well. Now look at the healer and bard and you tell me if you think your sorcerer is going to feel the pain of mez resist more than them? I seriously doubt it and I feel real pity for the poor bastards who went pac spec'd healers.

Having said that at least healers and bards will be getting rps from rezing soon

Actually after all that I think albion only has 1 problem.. too many classes = too many hybrid classes.

sorcerer I'd say was a hybrid

 

[Spyf]

Its funny reading here in BW, that I must say.

Reading this forum for about 3 month now I have seen a million whine threads about classes in albion.

Why cant people just realice that we <albion> is more specialised classes than the other 2 realm's and do their chars after that and god damn spesialice in what your char is supposed to do best.

If that aint an option I cant see why these people play albion and dont reroll to hib or mid and get the char who can do it all. But I quess its still not possible to get a char who can do it all right?

I have, when i started my desided to be full mind to be a great mezzer and I must say that the 44 mezz is awesome, coz im the mezzer in albion and NOT a nuker, we got other chars for that.

If sorcerer wants to nuke buy some RA's.

But the mezz 44 is awesome coz it got allmost no resist and I can lay on the ground and see the battle finish and then get rezzed coz no tank's or very few do their job about protecting sorcerer's as they should.

Maybe this is where the real issue is and NOT being a gimped char.

Atleast what im saying here is that I have no problems being the mezzer and only that, but please all you slam tanks outthere, do your damn job and albion will win a hell of alot more battles outthere than it is at the time being.


Mazter Mind
Illuminati

Sorcerer Primus
Full mind and damn proud of it

 

[censi]

If you've got a problem with YOUR class, take it elsewhere and whinge. Because you're basically saying "Sorcerers are overpowered because they have a one-shot self bladeturn! OMG! I PEED MAH PANTS!".

???erm sorcs arnt overpowered, didnt say they were??? keep taking the drugs???

I luv my archer, but its a fact compared to a sorc's impact in group RVR theres no comparrisson. And mystic are forcing all players to grp now...

Root is completely different to stun.

Fuck me you are good!

You can moan all you like about sorcs they wont get any luv, cuz tbh they dont really need it..

They are the only pure CC class with any kinda of damage dealing capability.... yes its not as good as the pure nukers, but what do you expect....

Once again go speak to Veesham.... he know how to play a sorc...

 

[Simius]

Welcome to the latest installment of "yet another sorcerer whine". I can sum up the entire arguement in one little discussion.

Someone else who hasn't played a sorc to a high level and RvR: Blimey, sorcs are uber, look at all the things they can do. I wish I was a sorc.

Me: Then play one.

SEWHPASTAHLARVR: Oh no, they're far too gimped.

If I had 1p for every time I've had this conversation I could level another crafter to LGM and still have a few gold left over to not give to beggars at Cots bindstone. Essentially what I 'm trying to say is that the Sorcerer has such potential to be a fantastic class that unless you've played one day in day out for months then you wont spot the cracks. This is what really gets to the sorc players, the fact that given the right circumstances you are simply unstoppable, but that's so rare it's just not funny. It's like buying a top of the range hi-fi, but unless you use it on a mountain while it's raining and powered by a goat on a treadmill then it's just going to scratch your cd's and chew up your tapes.

Here, in no particular order, are my (and I suspect many others') top sorcerer whines.

1) Insta-mez spells can feck right off.
Ok, maybe not entirely, but the undisputable fact of the matter here is that sorcerer mezzes will never beat an insta on a level playing field. Sure if we jump you, blah blah blah, but having your primary function handed to you along with your head 9 times out of 10 kinda smarts.

2) Stun spells can ****AARRGGGGHHHHH****
Just the mere mention of these spells throw me into a rage. They have much more effect on a battle than a mez, are unbreakable CC (purge go home) and unless you resist or are lucky enough to get left alone, you will die. Ultimate CC, do sorcs even get a sniff of one, no.

3) Pets
Fight a yellow con my arse. And I'm more likely to find a stealther than a good pet in most camps.

4) Wot no rez?
RvR - Land mez - die - no rez - battle ends - release/rez with wow i got lots of rp for that. Every sorc knows exactly what i mean here.


There are more but I really cannot be bothered to put my point across to people who have already made up their mind. A sorcerer can be played very VERY well, but without a good group and whole heap of luck you're just going to be a rp cow.

 

[kameh]

Originally posted by Simius
A sorcerer can be played very VERY well, but without a good group and whole heap of luck you're just going to be a rp cow.

Lets rephrase that..

Any class can be played very VERY well, but without a good group and whole heap of luck you're just going to be a rp cow.

Sorcerers have insta mez on the brain, I say give them it and take away thier QC.. then see how uber it is

 

[Simius]

I don't want insta's. But an stun would be appreciated if you're swapping spells around, you can have confuse in exchange.....

Yes any class played badly is a rp cow, but there is such a thin line with a sorc that we are rarely in the middle ground, unlike the majority of other classes.

 

[Apathy]

Originally posted by censi


???erm sorcs arnt overpowered, didnt say they were??? keep taking the drugs???

I luv my archer, but its a fact compared to a sorc's impact in group RVR theres no comparrisson. And mystic are forcing all players to grp now...

Look, screw you and your archer. Go shove an arrow up your bum. This thread isn't a FFA class whinge session.

It's sorcs only.

Fuck me you are good!

You can moan all you like about sorcs they wont get any luv, cuz tbh they dont really need it..

I know they don't. It's the skill-free instaclasses that need nerfed.

They are the only pure CC class with any kinda of damage dealing capability.... yes its not as good as the pure nukers, but what do you expect....

A bard can do more damage than a sorcerer and will live longer when it comes down to a fight. Especially against a sorcerer, which was my point. It's not even close.

Once again go speak to Veesham.... he know how to play a sorc...

Which "Veesham" (sic) would that be? The original or the one who bought/was given the account?

Kameh, I don't want instas. I want them removed, or reduced in potency with a range reduction or sorc spec mezz range increased significantly.

Nothing new needs to be added to the sorcerer. The bugs just need fixed, some sweeteners need to be added (RP for debuff/mezz. Screw the PLers or learn how to write the code, Mythic.) and issues like realm counterparts need to be addressed.

a.
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[Simius]

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
I don't want instas. I want them removed, or reduced in potency with a range reduction or sorc spec mezz range increased significantly.

Nothing new needs to be added to the sorcerer. The bugs just need fixed, some sweeteners need to be added (RP for debuff/mezz. Screw the PLers or learn how to write the code, Mythic.) and issues like realm counterparts need to be addressed.

/agree all

and I bet the majority of other sorcs do too. Other sorcs, care to throw in your 2 copper?

 

[Apathy]

What do you mean, other sorcs? I am the only one!

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[Aussie-]

give sorcers 1.5x spec boints like bards ^^

 

[Simius]

Originally posted by ApathyEndymion
What do you mean, other sorcs? I am the only one!

Does this mean we have to behead our own kind in order to maintain our power? I really must have read the wrong description for mystic crystal lore.

/wanders off to charm Scotsman with big sword

 

[kameh]

Originally posted by Aussie-
give sorcers 1.5x spec boints like bards ^^

that's the sort of knee jerk reaction and solution that mythic usually take (usually ends up in nerfs down the line too)

 

[Apathy]

Nah, give sorcerers 3x spec points. Then we can have every single spell but still only use about four of them.

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[censi]

ampthy, cant be bothered to reply with further info.... needless to say you are a lost cause... (suspect aged around 14-16 to)

 

[Apathy]

Well, since we're judging people's ages based on how they write...I'm guessing you're around 8-10 "to". Either that or REALLY fat fingers.

Actually, fat fingers would explain why you think rangers are the number one gimp...your doughy digits can't operate the bowstring, perhaps?

a.
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[censi]

very good...

Zzzzzzzzzzzz

 

[Qte Eth]

ok have to answer to some ppl
2Fingoniel
50-60 casts not enuff?hm...what will change if he does 500-600 casts?

about why 34 mind isnt enuff-u are main CC so u have to spec ur CC line over damage line -not?if u dont spec it over dont say ur CC sux.U are speced in damage way then with some mes.

2sko ive said it to u many times u keep asking
if i had friends on alb like i have on hib now id surely play mind sorc-just i poped at hib first

 

[Spyf]

Originally posted by Qte Eth

about why 34 mind isnt enuff-u are main CC so u have to spec ur CC line over damage line -not?if u dont spec it over dont say ur CC sux.U are speced in damage way then with some mes.

Couldnt have said it better myself

Mazter Mind
Illuminati

Full mind and damn proud of it

 

[-Dreama-]

So lets looks at the shouts.. bards get them because generally whilst they're doing CC they're healing/running about to get away from tanks (from experience). The mez shouts are 90% used for defense unless the bard/healer is VERY confident in his group or doesnt expect to live long anyway. Lets face it unless you know your group well you'll rarely expect to live 30-45mins in emain.

¨30-45 min emain...wow, that's a fucking long time! As a sorc I am happy to live long enough to get 1 mezz off, and damn happy if I live ling enough to get RP off the first kill. Now, if I live thru an entire battle I drop dead of a heart attack.

I'm not saying Sorcs are gimped, not at all. I think that if a sorc speccs for what a sorc is ment to do, mezz, then the sorc can mezz very well.
My only complaint is this, Armor. In comparison to other main CC classes of other realms a sorc gets hits harder than all of them. I think the first and biggest mistake of Mythic was to make Alb CC classes so different that the other realm CC classes.

If they wanted balance in the classes then they would have either made all 3 main CC classes clothe wearing mezzers, or they would have made them chain wearing hybrids. There will _NEVER_ be balance umumngst the CC classes for one reason, you can't compare them. They are completly different types of classes that can all 3 mezz, umung other things. Maybe mythic should just give Minstrels ae mezz and take away their stealth, then we wouldn't need sorcs and maybe maybe maybe there would be more balance in the CC classes.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by censi

Sorcs are more than good enough...

Mezz first,

Stun any thing that runs at run..

OK if we assume you meant Root...

You cast mezz, 8 people purge, you cast root, they stand and nuke you.

Do it in PvE, you cast aoe mezz on three monsters, get two resists - you're dead.

A bard can take more than 2 hits

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by Qte Eth
ok have to answer to some ppl
2Fingoniel
50-60 casts not enuff?hm...what will change if he does 500-600 casts?

about why 34 mind isnt enuff-u are main CC so u have to spec ur CC line over damage line -not?if u dont spec it over dont say ur CC sux.U are speced in damage way then with some mes.

2sko ive said it to u many times u keep asking
if i had friends on alb like i have on hib now id surely play mind sorc-just i poped at hib first

flip a coin once.
You get heads.

This coin is biased! it only ever lands on heads!


Slightly less facetious argument:
Flip a coin ten times. How many times does it land heads?

The answer is - you don't know till you try. It will be anything from 0 to 10 (you can flip a coin ten times in a row and get heads ten times you know... it's not likely but it's possible).

The 50 casts of a spell is about the same as flipping a coin 2 times it's a biased and misleading sample.

Incidentally, you say 'spec the CC Line higher or you can't cry gimp' but people also say 'sorcs are the only CC that can do damage' - shame you can't do decent damage with a high CC line... (you can do some semi-average damage... but nothing decent)

There is a reason sorcerers are so rare, it's not that everyone in albion thinks they don't need CC. (heh)

It's because every fight involving a sorcerer ends the same way for them.

Group loses, sorcerer dies.
Group wins, sorcerer dies.

There's a difference between dying in 2 hits (sorc) and dying in 5 (healer/bard).

Yes, a sorc can do damage, but they have no buffs etc. For those that say sorcs are more group friendly than archers - well duh. But they're far from 'must have' in a group.

Apart from killing at tanglers almost every group would prefer a minstrel. The minstrel can hum powersong, the minstrel doesn't die when their mezz fails.

 

[Treniel-]

a good decently spec'd sorc works...otherwise its rubbish

 

[- Fedaykin -]

Sigh

I have a level 47 Sorc and was full mind until my little brother decided while I was at uni to give him a last name.. "Fedaykin Mezzer" wtf and to respec to 34 mind, rest body...



G I M P E D

Sigh :-(