Help So... you find out your friend might be a neo nazi...

[old.Tohtori]

The irony here can be cut with a knife if you take into condsideration what Nath and other claim i do

Especially since NOONE is claiming Nazis weren't bad.

00dave, on your "answers";

A: Whether you wanted to be or not. One day when you grow up you may get tired of your job and want to try something else.

B: At what point did the nazis think everyone was equal, obviously the millions of people gased, shot or bombed were less equal were they? They sent white German men to prison for entering mixed race relationships. I was at the UN headquarters just last week I saw the documents. They also sterilised or killed people with mental problems, so you'd have been in trouble.

C: War = technical/ scientific advancement. It's a well known fact, most medical techniques are born on the battlefield and most inventions are made or improved for use in war.

A: When i grow up? Pretty darn grown up "sir". I'm doing what i want to do and am therefor good at. If you're good at something, you SHOULD do it. Our current work systems isn't "functional" so to speak, so you can give a bad spin on every system.

B: Missed the point it seems, i said the POSITIVE IDEAL of the supremacy thing, which is bad, is the ideal of equal humanity. Get it? Supremacy = bad, the SIDE dish of it, equality = good. Right track, wrong way to do it. Hand up who wants all the chavs gone? Oh gee, look at that, full house.

C: And? Germans still made huge advancements compared to other nations. Tanks, aviation, etc.

I think many of you are letting the hatred cloud your neutral way of looking things.

I was asked what the Nazis did well, and i answered. Then get called a child and a retard. All because you don't like what bad things the nazis did, while i'm NOT even denying it.

Not to mention, this was suppoosed to be about neo-nazis...which are completely different.

 

[throdgrain]

The Germans had some great kit in World War 2.

But you're just being an argumentative prat Tohtori, and thats a fact.

 

[nath]

Hand up who wants all the chavs gone? Oh gee, look at that, full house

Are you comparing peoples wish for their to be no chavs to the Nazi's wish for there to be no Jews? Correct me if I'm wrong, it's just that seems like that's what you're doing.

 

[00dave]

The irony here can be cut with a knife if you take into condsideration what Nath and other claim i do

Especially since NOONE is claiming Nazis weren't bad.

00dave, on your "answers";



A: When i grow up? Pretty darn grown up "sir". I'm doing what i want to do and am therefor good at. If you're good at something, you SHOULD do it. Our current work systems isn't "functional" so to speak, so you can give a bad spin on every system.

B: Missed the point it seems, i said the POSITIVE IDEAL of the supremacy thing, which is bad, is the ideal of equal humanity. Get it? Supremacy = bad, the SIDE dish of it, equality = good. Right track, wrong way to do it. Hand up who wants all the chavs gone? Oh gee, look at that, full house.

C: And? Germans still made huge advancements compared to other nations. Tanks, aviation, etc.

I think many of you are letting the hatred cloud your neutral way of looking things.

I was asked what the Nazis did well, and i answered. Then get called a child and a retard. All because you don't like what bad things the nazis did, while i'm NOT even denying it.

Not to mention, this was suppoosed to be about neo-nazis...which are completely different.

Seriously where did you learn irony, from alanis morisette? We're telling you the Nazis were bad, nothing they did was good because it was done off the back of the bad things they did. If you want to think the opposite of what people think because you don't want to follow the trend well you may have issues there. It's not current way of thinking, the United nations was formed in the 40s to prevent a repeat of the second world war and it's causes. They don't form huge organisations to prevent things just to impress the public.



A: Sometimes the things you're good at aren't the things you want to do. I'm a profesional driver, trained, experienced, and very good in my opinion, but I certainly don't want to be a driver the rest of my life. Who has the right to decide what I should do with my life?

B: A good "side dish" of an absolutely terrible idea means nothing.

c: It depends what you mean by advancment, the Americans made some serious advances, the super fortress was the first pressurised plane I believe. We in Britain built a computer, created radar, built the best fighter planes during the war. The Russians had the best tanks, simple designs mass produced.

 

[Macey]

Ive actually given up on this...I never, in my entire life, thought I would encounter someone who would argue pro-nazi ideals...its just insane, it really is...not to mention disrespectful, insolent and ignorant.

 

[old.Tohtori]

But you're just being an argumentative prat Tohtori, and thats a fact.

Am not, i was giving an opinion and other people are doing what people blame me for...oh gee..because they don't agree.

So it's ok to act like "i supposedly do" when it's YOU. Right.

Seriously where did you learn irony, from alanis morisette? We're telling you the Nazis were bad, nothing they did was good because it was done off the back of the bad things they did. If you want to think the opposite of what people think because you don't want to follow the trend well you may have issues there. It's not current way of thinking, the United nations was formed in the 40s to prevent a repeat of the second world war and it's causes. They don't form huge organisations to prevent things just to impress the public.

A: Sometimes the things you're good at aren't the things you want to do. I'm a profesional driver, trained, experienced, and very good in my opinion, but I certainly don't want to be a driver the rest of my life. Who has the right to decide what I should do with my life?

B: A good "side dish" of an absolutely terrible idea means nothing.

c: It depends what you mean by advancment, the Americans made some serious advances, the super fortress was the first pressurised plane I believe. We in Britain built a computer, created radar, built the best fighter planes during the war. The Russians had the best tanks, simple designs mass produced.

The irony wasn't towards you, it was towards people claiming i do something while doing it themselves. Maybe it's just hypocrisy.

Thing is, you don't HAVE TO tell me nazis were bad. I'm not claiming nazis were good. GET IT?!

Gees...

A: If you knew you'd get to do what you're good at, you'd train for what you want to do from a kid and be sure you get to do it. Don't compare that way with current way because they don't mix.

B: It's still a good idea if it was implemented in a less savage way.

C: I mean technical advancements in fields of war, human research(yes i know), etc. There were and can't argue it. Hell, they boosted the space program a mile too.

Ive actually given up on this...I never, in my entire life, thought I would encounter someone who would argue pro-nazi ideals...its just insane, it really is...not to mention disrespectful, insolent and ignorant.

The problem is that people hear "nazi" and stick fingers in their ears and go "LALALALALALA!!!" at the drop of a swastika decorated hat. "There can be nothing good about them! No! Never!", which, is not being objectional.

No one here is defending the ideals of ALL what neo-nazis say etc. Just saying there's good ideas there too.

 

[00dave]

The problem is that people hear "nazi" and stick fingers in their ears and go "LALALALALALA!!!" at the drop of a swastika decorated hat. "There can be nothing good about them! No! Never!", which, is not being objectional.

There's being objectional and theres being dumb. Guess which my opinion of you is.

 

[old.Tohtori]

There's being objectional and theres being dumb. Guess which my opinion of you is.

Ofcourse you think i'm dumb because i don't think that nazis were 100% wrong in everything.

This is probably due to you or some of your family being involved and hatred clouding it.

Go ahead, i don't have the need to call you names, juvenile, retarded or otherwise because of it.

 

[Morphius]

A: If you knew you'd get to do what you're good at, you'd train for what you want to do from a kid and be sure you get to do it. Don't compare that way with current way because they don't mix.

That's ridiculous to even say that you be planning your future from a kid. When you're a kid you don't know what you wanted to do. I used to want to be a JCB driver and also a Majorette.... so I should've started training for them?

I am now applying to be a doctor, they're quite different. I want to be a doctor and it's a great job but I don't want to be one forever. At some point I plan to get extreme sports photography and also property development. I'll do them as I want to do them. If I become a good doctor, great, but i'm not going to do it forever.

 

[Cadelin]

Would you look at this, old.Tohtori makes a ridiculous and stupid comment in his first post in the thread. Then some 60+ posts later he is still trying to distract people from what he actually said.


To answer the original question, the picture could have many possible ideas behind it. I think I would ask something along the lines of: "Thats a pretty crazy picture, who was the artist and what were their motivations behind the painting?" Then see where the conversation goes.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Then some 60+ posts later he is still trying to distract people from what he actually said.

So what did i actually say, mr stalker?

 

[Bugz]

To be fair to the Nazi's - they knew how to run an economy.

Just didn't know anything about morals etc.

 

[Cadelin]

So what did i actually say, mr stalker?

I am not stalking you, just look at the number of times you have posted in this thread and the numerous replies you have got. Its hard to miss you.

Honestly though, people are way too sensitive about nazi stuff, it was a long time ago, let it go.

It's not like we're critisizing christians for the crusades.

What the Nazis did was wrong. Just because it happened along time ago doesn't mean its now ok to support their ideas of racism, anti-semitism and homophobia to name just a few.

Your example is also flawed: Even in your example you try compare Christians with Nazi and try and claim they are the same. However even in your example Christians are still different from Nazis because nowadays Christians do not want to go on more crusades. Christians have changed from what they believed several hundreds years ago which is why we don't critisize them for it but Nazis have not.

 

[yaruar]

C: I mean technical advancements in fields of war, human research(yes i know), etc. There were and can't argue it. Hell, they boosted the space program a mile too.

Don't forget the major advancements the Nazis made in the field of medicine, for that i'm sure you will be thanking them.

 

[nath]

hand up who wants all the chavs gone? Oh gee, look at that, full house.

Are you comparing peoples wish for their to be no chavs to the Nazi's wish for there to be no Jews? Correct me if I'm wrong, it's just that seems like that's what you're doing.

Are you going to answer my question?

 

[old.Tohtori]

What the Nazis did was wrong. Just because it happened along time ago doesn't mean its now ok to support their ideas of racism, anti-semitism and homophobia to name just a few.

Your example is also flawed: Even in your example you try compare Christians with Nazi and try and claim they are the same. However even in your example Christians are still different from Nazis because nowadays Christians do not want to go on more crusades. Christians have changed from what they believed several hundreds years ago which is why we don't critisize them for it but Nazis have not.

And you think my original point was that nazis were right? That i support racism, anti-semantics or homophobia?

Think again mr troll. I've never talked about that. The original quote doesn't even talk about that.

Christians and nazis are the same, as much as nowadays neo-nazis don't go around gassing people.

Are you going to answer my question?

Though i did, internet ate it i guess.

I'm saying that wanting to get rid of one group of people because YOU think they are not good for YOUR lifestyle or world, is similar, yes.

Don't forget the major advancements the Nazis made in the field of medicine, for that i'm sure you will be thanking them.

That's why i said "i know". Someone bound to make that comparison straight away.

 

[yaruar]

To be fair to the Nazi's - they knew how to run an economy.

Yeah, they just removed anyone from their statistics who made the figures look bad like revoking citizenship for Jews and making sure women weren't counted in their employment figues as work wasn't the role of a woman.

The annexing of other countries wasa genius move though, best plan ever to boos income.

 

[nath]

I'm saying that wanting to get rid of one group of people because YOU think they are not good for YOUR lifestyle or world, is similar, yes.

Except the extermination of a race of people can't really be compared to wanting to be shot of chavs. For one - chavs aren't a race. Two, the things that define a chav are universally unpleasant characteristics. Aggressive, anti-social, potentially violent, intimidating. When people say they want chavs gone, I'm pretty sure that's what they're talking about. If chavs were simply decent people that drank cheap shit lager and wore burberry, I doubt anyone would have such a problem with them.

 

[Arnie 2Tone]

To contextualise this slightly, as I know the subject of this theoretical question, the painting was probably a gift for the person's other half, who has a penchant for Nazi war memorobilia. I suspect this is because he wants to seem "edgy". Since the buyer is Romany and would also fall foul of a eugenics programme, I sincerely doubt that her fiances true political views closely mirror those of the Nazi party. Also, the person who painted it definately doesn't meet the requirements necessary to be accepted into the Aryan Brotherhood, which further suggests that the whole thing is akin to a rather extreme version of "the guy at Uni who started smoking a pipe because he desperately wanted to have a 'thing' "

Regardless of motive, they should both be a lot more careful about admitting to owning such things in semi-public forums like they have done, since I'm quite certain if their employers got wind they'd both be looking at P45's given their respective careers...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Except the extermination of a race of people can't really be compared to wanting to be shot of chavs. For one - chavs aren't a race. Two, the things that define a chav are universally unpleasant characteristics. Aggressive, anti-social, potentially violent, intimidating. When people say they want chavs gone, I'm pretty sure that's what they're talking about. If chavs were simply decent people that drank cheap shit lager and wore burberry, I doubt anyone would have such a problem with them.

Well, that depends ofcourse on your opinion on if it matters if a group of people is a race, religion or a style.

Same difference in my books. People with similarity.

But you probably see my point on it being similar? 'cause certainly not all chavs are like that, as much as not all jews were the same ones hitler wanted out.

 

[nath]

not all jews were the same ones hitler wanted out.

I'm not sure that that's accurate at all. As for the issue with chavs - if you accept that the definition of chav is the traits that I mentioned then all chavs must be that, by definition. If I said I wanted rid of all violent religious fundamentalists, you couldn't say "well not all violent religious fundamentalists are violent, religious and fundamentalists". They are by definition.

Besides, even if we can't agree on what the definition of a chav is, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a significant number of people who'd be happy to exterminate all chavs, regardless of what they say. I'd be quite happy in saying gas the lot of them, that doesn't mean that when it comes to the crunch I'd actually want people to die.

Ultimately - there is a big difference between wanting someone dead because of their race, and disliking someone for being an aggressive shit.

 

[Zenith.UK]

Considering how fascist and totalitarian the Nazi regime was, they had some very innovative ideas.

Take Werner Von Braun for instance. He's the man who designed and ran the German Vergeltungswaffe (revenge weapon) project. They came up with the V1 "Doodlebug" and V2 rocket bombs. The technical development of guided rockets was impressive. The Nazis then went that nasty step further and started using slave labour to mass produce these rockets.
After WW2, the Americans poached him and used his expertise to drive their own rocket development. It could be said that Neil Armstrong got to the Moon directly because of the Nazi backed rocket development 30 years earlier. Never forget how many people lost life, limb and property because of those rockets though.
V-2 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is rumoured that Hitler asked Porsche to make a car for ordinary people. The end result was the creation of Volkswagen and it's classic Beetle.
Volkswagen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

German scientists developed an early form of radar absorbing coating for their Ho-IX aircraft. After WW2, further development of radar absorbing coatings eventually led to the construction of the B2 Stealth Bomber.
Kaboom: B-2 Stealth Bomber Crashes, 1.2 Billion Dollars Turn to Smoke

German medical researchers proved the link between tobacco smoking and lung cancer BEFORE WW2, and more than 20 years before US and UK scientists proved the same link.
The Nazi War on Tobacco and Cancer

Don't think I'm a Nazi apologist. I find the whole idea of the Nazi regime repugnant, yet it cannot be denied that the same regime drove technical innovations 10-20 years ahead of it's contemporaries in other countries. The big fly in the ointment is that some of these developments were made off the back of slave labour, prisoner experimentation and people with dubious ethical intent. My personal opinion is that if some research can be shown to have a benefit for a large number of people, we would be churlish to disregard research made under the Nazi regime simply because it was under the Nazis.
Millions of Jews died in concentration camps and terrible things were done to them in the name of science. If some good can come from it, then surely we owe it to their memory to make use of those records... as long as we NEVER forget where that information came from, or the price that was paid for it.

 

[Cadelin]

And you think my original point was that nazis were right? That i support racism, anti-semantics or homophobia?

Troll Alert! Twisting logic!

You said that it wasn't wrong, when it clearly was and still is wrong.

Christians and nazis are the same, as much as nowadays neo-nazis don't go around gassing people.

Troll Alert! Twisting logic!

Once again this is irrelevant. What was important was what they believe in. Next time you may as well say Christians and Nazi are the same because they both breath air!

 

[old.Tohtori]

You said that it wasn't wrong, when it clearly was and still is wrong.

Once again this is irrelevant. What was important was what they believe in. Next time you may as well say Christians and Nazi are the same because they both breath air!

Troll alert all you want, but you're the one twisting words.

I didn't say "nazi is not wrong", i said "being a neo nazi wouldn't make me drop a friendship".

And the second pooint isn't irrelevant, christians have a past with mass murdering f*cks, so do neo-nazis.

How can i twist logic by the way, when you're arguing my points?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ultimately - there is a big difference between wanting someone dead because of their race, and disliking someone for being an aggressive shit.

To get an easy closure on this, and not derail and risk a big argument, let's put it ultimately:

Ultimately, i don't see a difference. HAting person for race, religion, way of life, any point doesn't work any better.

We disagree, ok?

 

[ECA]

I think everyone can agree, toht is a massive tit.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well if everyone thinks that due to me saying that i wouldn't drop someones friendship due to finding out they are neo-nai, then fine, think that.

 

[Gumbo]

I think everyone can agree, toht is a massive tit.

Agreed!, but am I the only one who has a hankering to see the painting that sparked all this?

 

[rynnor]

As for the much vaunted engineering gains, they built some nifty tanks, developed rocket technology that was about it.

They had better guns, particularly machine guns and their grenades were far superior - the stick grenade could be thrown a lot further and more accurately and actually had an adjustable timer.

But on the whole they pretty much on a par with england in terms of innovation and breakthroughs - we had radar and the first computers to defeat their enigma machines etc.

The main advantage for them was that they had been preparing for a war while the rest of europe hadnt.

Anyhow - back to the original post - could it not just be a rather provocative piece of modern art and have nothing to do with their ideology?

 

[nath]

Ultimately, i don't see a difference. HAting person for race, religion, way of life, any point doesn't work any better.

I don't understand what you mean specifically by "doesn't work any better". Are you suggesting hating someone for what they do is the same as hating someone for what they are?