Help So... you find out your friend might be a neo nazi...

[Damini]

So, just totally hypothetically, say you have this friend. Not a really close friend, but someone you see down the pub and invite to your birthday party and wedding and so on, and you're invited to their wedding. They've never seemed horrible, or racist, or pro-genocide in any conversations you've had so far. Their partner does have a slightly Adolf hair cut but hey, that could just be an accident, right?

Then say you discover that in their bedroom they have a commissioned painting of a topless woman with an ss armband and an iron cross plastered across her nipples, posed pin up style, riding a giant swastika.

Hypothetically.

How exactly do you broach the question "Are you a secret neo nazi?". Should you? Or should you just accept them at face value and turn a blind eye? Should you assume it's just because they find swastikas pretty? Could you stop being friends with someone just on the basis of their political views, assuming they weren't acting on them?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ask, get answer, if it bothers you, drop friend.

"You a nazi then?"
"Yes."
"Oh, so dinner at 5?"

Honestly though, people are way too sensitive about nazi stuff, it was a long time ago, let it go.

It's not like we're critisizing christians for the crusades.

 

[pcg79]

'uh, whats with the poster? its kinda pretty i guess but those nazis, boy did they have some fucked up ideas...'

...

 

[Sar]

The difference is there are still plenty of older people about who lived through the Nazi period of WW1 & WW2 and still remember the atrocities the Nazi's carried out.

 

[Sar]

Hunt their bookshelf for a dog-eared copy of Mein Kampf.

 

[00dave]

Honestly though, people are way too sensitive about nazi stuff, it was a long time ago, let it go.

It's not like we're critisizing christians for the crusades.

Dear god Toht what is wrong with you?

 

[old.Tohtori]

Dear god Toht what is wrong with you?

What? Do i HAVE to hate neo-nazis because "everyone"(not) does?

See the irony?

Nazis, christians, buddhas, pipers, candstick makers. All the same as long as they don't bother other people.

You bother someone elses life, then there's a problem, otherwise you can bow down to the holy bacon king of aruba for all i care.

 

[pcg79]

What? Do i HAVE to hate neo-nazis because "everyone"(not) does?

See the irony?

no no you dont have to hate them because everyone else does.
but if you think about their ideas and principles then you should hate them.

 

[old.Tohtori]

no no you dont have to hate them because everyone else does.
but if you think about their ideas and principles then you should hate them.

No i shouldn't.

No more then i should hate anyone with other beliefs on how to run this globe.

Like i said, ideas, thoughts, opinions, all free will, go for it, scream that you love Adolf at the top of the mountain, but the moment you tell me i SHOULD do soemthing, you can f*ck off.

 

[nath]

Honestly though, people are way too sensitive about nazi stuff, it was a long time ago, let it go.

Lol, thats gold right there. Thanks for the new sig.

 

[00dave]

I'm not a fan of political correctness or banning jokes about Irishmen etc, but they form large organisations like the United Nations to prevent a repeat performance of the Nazi party.

The rest of the world considers it a serious matter, maybe you should too.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm not a fan of political correctness or banning jokes about Irishmen etc, but they form large organisations like the United Nations to prevent a repeat performance of the Nazi party.

The rest of the world considers it a serious matter, maybe you should too.

I'm not saying "oh let nazis ru around killing people", i'm saying people have a right to believe and feel what they do.

If you say "can't think like a nazi", you are, in effect, being a nazi.

As long, note, AS LONG AS there's no harming done, be nazi for all i care.

A nazi who keeps to himself is better then you're being now.

 

[Macey]

A long time ago??? If its less than a century ago i.e. within the span of a human beings lifetime, how can that possibly be classed as along time ago???

As for the actual question posed, I dont think it should be that much of an issue, if the hypothetical friend is someone you get on with, then its no reason to drop a friendship. Unless of course this "friend" starts to try and convert you to neo-naziism, at which point I would suggest that it might be time to break away.

Neo nazis nowadays aren't really the same as nazis of the WW era, they have become much more passive in the way they express their beliefs, and I dont think that the same stigma should necessarily attach to them for their actions now. Its a completely different thing to preach white supremacy and soforth than to go out gasing people. Its no different, as Toht says, to any other group saying how they wish the world to be run, however, the term Nazi still carries a massive stigma to it, and I dont think that will go away any time soon.

Basically, if you feel comfortable then stay with the "friend" if you dont, then drop it now and cut all ties.

It could well just be a poster that he happened to like though, a lot of people collect nazi memorabilia anyway, and not everyone who has read mein kampf is a nazi or even a nazi sympathist.

 

[TdC]

I'd say....ask them about the picture and see what happens. As to hypothetically barring them from your circle of friends, in my personal case, yes, I would. It would make me extremely sad to lose a friend, however ideologically I'd not be able to rhyme their beliefs with how I feel. I have family who experienced WWII first hand, both on the side of the Allies, and as captured countrymen here in Holland. I have listened to their stories, I have seen documentaries, I have studied in school. Sorry, I'd rather lose a friend.

 

[00dave]

Seriously someone else take over, I'm not sure I can deal with this level of stupidity.

 

[00dave]

To answer the original question (sorry I got sidetracked) you don't need to ask them straight up, you're a clever person ask a few open questions that would effectively reveal their neo nazi-ness. Then IMO if they are ditch them.

 

[nath]

I'd say....ask them about the picture and see what happens. As to hypothetically barring them from your circle of friends, in my personal case, yes, I would. It would make me extremely sad to lose a friend, however ideologically I'd not be able to rhyme their beliefs with how I feel. I have family who experienced WWII first hand, both on the side of the Allies, and as captured countrymen here in Holland. I have listened to their stories, I have seen documentaries, I have studied in school. Sorry, I'd rather lose a friend.

Yup, I've a couple of family members who were in Auschwitz. Pretty impressive story really. One was 16, one was 14. The younger one has always been very tall. When they were lined up, anyone under 16 was told to step forward - he was about to but his older brother grabbed him and held him in line. Everyone that stepped forward was shot, as they'd be no use, not able to work or some such. Because he was tall, managed to pass as a 16 yr old, obviously no one had papers.

Fortunately they survived the ordeal and are both still alive and well. It always seemed kinda distant and barely real, but when you see the tattoo on the forearm, it really sinks in.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Seriously someone else take over, I'm not sure I can deal with this level of stupidity.

No need to take over though seeing as i've given my opinion.

Friend nazi != friendship over, for me.

Modern day nazis, like said, aren't running about killing jews and such.

Only thing wrong is that nazis killed alot of people, other ideals and such they have are quite alright, even to supremacy. Hell, UK people are known for the chav hating, nothing different there. You don't like stupid people? Same thing.

 

[ECA]

no no you dont have to hate them because everyone else does.
but if you think about their ideas and principles then you should hate them.

Besides that whole killing a lot of jews, homos and gypsies thing, what nazi ideas and principles should we be hating?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

 

[Nate]

The difference is there are still plenty of older people about who lived through the Nazi period of WW1 & WW2 and still remember the atrocities the Nazi's carried out.

What do you mean? Jup was about when the crusades were wasn't he?

 

[Scouse]

Hunt their bookshelf for a dog-eared copy of Mein Kampf.

I was tempted to buy Mein Kampf myself, just to see if I could get a better understanding of what Hitler was trying to do, NOT because I'm a Nazi

You can't judge people on their bookshelves, and I daresay, their art. Judge people on their actions. Are they always nice and courteous to you? Do they act "nice"?

Also - it could just be a sex thing?

As for hating ideas - yep, christianity is up there. Its the implementation of those ideas that counts - i.e. actions.

 

[Sar]

I was tempted to buy Mein Kampf myself, just to see if I could get a better understanding of what Hitler was trying to do, NOT because I'm a Nazi

You can't judge people on their bookshelves, and I daresay, their art. Judge people on their actions. Are they always nice and courteous to you? Do they act "nice"?

Also - it could just be a sex thing?

As for hating ideas - yep, christianity is up there. Its the implementation of those ideas that counts - i.e. actions.

Was just takin' the pish Scouseh

 

[Scouse]

Was just takin' the pish Scouseh

Yeah, figured that, but some might not

 

[Yoni]

Don't be overly hasty... SS uniforms and associated erotic imagery are often associated with sexual fetishes of a sado-masochistic nature, I have friends who are very much into this however are not aligned with a nazi political stance in the slightest.

However if he is a Neo Nazi then I would probably not associate with him either. Although how you approach him on the sexual fetish thing maybe more awkward than asking him about his political stance.

 

[Fweddy]

Does he like marmite by any chance?

 

[chipper]

i dont think anyone is saying forget what happened it was down right evil anyway you look at it, and i personally have no love for anyone who can support such evil ideals.


we all preach what is right and what is wrong based on our own morale values that is why freedom of speech is such an important aspect of the world we live in, we may not agree with it, and it may make our blood boil, but to deny people their own beliefs no matter how extreme is wrong, and frankly makes people who do condemn such beliefs just as bad, and no im far from perfect ive made my feelings known on a couple of controversial issues, but ive always respected other peoples oppinions.

im not saying these people should be allowed to act upon those beliefs because that is clearly crossing the line. murder is murder anyway you dress it up. but if they are doing nothing wrong and causing no trouble what harm does it cause?

just cos someone is a neo nazi does it make them a bad person? in most peoples eyes yes even tho they may do charity work have exceptional manners a happy home life. but because of their beliefs they are a bad person. (cant say ive ever wanted an entire race dead but certainly a few ppl on the planet id happily have put a bullet between their eyes, but that is because they have acted on those beliefs) you can have friends who you dont agree with what you do in that situation is up to you for me one of my friends is a die hard christian and i do mean the works. but he knows not to preach to me or raise the subject and im the same and we get along fine i dont agree with him on that subject doesnt stop us been friends tho.

 

[nath]

we all preach what is right and what is wrong based on our own morale values that is why freedom of speech is such an important aspect of the world we live in, we may not agree with it, and it may make our blood boil, but to deny people their own beliefs no matter how extreme is wrong, and frankly makes people who do condemn such beliefs just as bad, and no im far from perfect ive made my feelings known on a couple of controversial issues, but ive always respected other peoples oppinions.

This seems to be a common attitude. However, I don't really get it - why must we accept all beliefs no matter how heinous, yet not condemn them for it? Surely, all things being equal, they should be allowed to hold those beliefs and others should be allowed to condemn them for it. If no one is breaking the law, and more importantly no laws are introduced to ban such beliefs, then it's all OK. It's fine to respect peoples RIGHT to have opinions, it doesn't mean you have to respect the opinion it self. Not all views are equally valid, but all people have an equal right to believe whatever they want.

 

[Zenith.UK]

An acquaintance of mine was on "The List" of BNP members.
BNP membership list posted online by former 'hardliner' | UK news | guardian.co.uk

The next time I saw him, I asked about it and he explained that he agreed with many of the BNP policies. I said I agree with a lot of Conservative policies but I wouldn't join their party.

As the conversation went on, it was as if dirty glasses had been taken off and he expounded his views without restraint any more. We don't know anybody unless we make an effort to get to know them and boy I didn't know him AT ALL. He was quite literally one step away from being an extremist. He wasn't overtly racist or bigotted in the traditional sense, but he certainly had a heightened sense of xenophobia.

If you suspect your friend has neo-nazi tendencies then it is up to you how to act. All I can say is don't be surprised if you find they hold more extreme views than you previously expected.

 

[JBP|]

Why would someones political views affect a friendship?

Either they are someone you get on with and form a friendship with or they are not?

 

[chipper]

This seems to be a common attitude. However, I don't really get it - why must we accept all beliefs no matter how heinous, yet not condemn them for it? Surely, all things being equal, they should be allowed to hold those beliefs and others should be allowed to condemn them for it. If no one is breaking the law, and more importantly no laws are introduced to ban such beliefs, then it's all OK. It's fine to respect peoples RIGHT to have opinions, it doesn't mean you have to respect the opinion it self. Not all views are equally valid, but all people have an equal right to believe whatever they want.

where is the line drawn between what is heinous nath? and how do you punish it. and 50 years down the line if the populations oppinion changes? im using it as an example i hope to god it never does. theres a good reason the thought police doesnt exsist long may it stay that way. example look at the difference in america in 100 years regarding the black population. general oppinion has changed what was once accepted (slavery) no longer is.

i agree with your point of view to a degree but i think there are wider implications to consider, me and you can turn round and say we think neo nazi's are the scum of the earth thats our oppinion and we condemn them for it. but thats as far as it goes. those people have the same right to believe in that evil bastard hitler as christians do in god. we may not like them for it but we cannot take pre emptive action on people simply because they do not agree with the majority oppinion. that is the most dangerous path we as a species could follow because we will end up a nazi state while trying to safeguard against becoming one.