Politics So its labor next erection then?

[Raven]

You are. So is your face.

 

[Nate]

I request Gwadien be banned for insulting us with his profound use of pleb. He may have sworn and used other derogatory remarks but pleb is pushing it too far.

 

[Scouse]

Nor is anyone here a 'pleb'

pleb
[pleb] Show IPA
noun
1.
a member of the plebs; a plebeian or commoner.

 

[Gwadien]

I'm not common innit.

 

[Bahumat]

A train travelling at 90mph leaves Basildon at 03:33 bound for Kowloon, ten minutes later a cat licks his balls. Which will reach their final destination first?

My train just pulled into Basildon whilst I read this. I get off at Leigh on Sea but after that it goes into hyperdrive so the train always wins. Also no cats exist in Essex due to the Frugu virus

 

[rynnor]

We are all plebs unless we have a secret heir knocking around - the tories are engaged in a fairly basic bit of divide and conquer while simultaneously feathering the nests of the super rich.

I think the cuts to the benefits system are largely idealogical - a bit of fun hurting the poor - none of the changes do anything to address the many issues with the current system that erects a series of barriers to people rejoining the workforce or will do anything to rehabilitate the long term unemployed.

The govt are chipping away at employment rights despite ours already being the weakest in Europe.

The child benefit cut was good in theory but awful in application when you are taxing one person for a benefit paid to someone else and the issues with single earners v dual earnings.

I am suprised at quite how awful the conservatives have acted - the only way I can read it is that they have given up on getting back in for ages and just want to do as much for their patrons while they have a chance.

 

[throdgrain]

To say 60k pa is not much to live on is pretty arrogant actually. Most of the people I know dont earn 60k, and seem to do ok thanks very much.

 

[Aada]

To say 60k pa is not much to live on is pretty arrogant actually. Most of the people I know dont earn 60k, and seem to do ok thanks very much.

It's down right fucking arrogant, honestly the sheer amount of threads on various forums where the 60k earners are moaning because they can't use that child benefit to put towards a holiday or as one guy put it he has 2 kids and he uses that child benefit to fund his game buying every month.

60k earners do not need child benefit and they never have, but to think that some of them are saying "we will have to struggle like everyone else" is just laughable it really is.

 

[soze]

Children are not a right. They cost money. Responsible people should go into it knowing they need to make changes. So sorry but if you can't afford kids buy condoms.

I like my nice house and my nice car. I also like to go out 3 nights a week and the babysitter is very expensive. If they take away my handouts I will have to stay in the UK this Christmas! Boo Fucking Hoo.

My parents both had two jobs to pay the bills so I am not a fan of the people who look for every last penny they can bleed out the the country.

 

[DaGaffer]

Whilst I know you're not applying it to you Gaff:



You've a 500k house.

When you retire, if you own an asset like that, you can buy a similar-sized house up north for 100k and have the 400k to blow on hookers and coke.

Same goes for someone who bought a 250k house and sold at 350k. Even if they spend 200 grand on a nice big house in a nice area outside their ideal living area they've got a whacking great amount of money to spunk on.

None of these people need child benefit. They just want it.

The potential value of your house in 25 years time has absolutely fuck all to do with current income and spending, and has very little to do with the amount you have to spend to get a house in London or the South East. That's an absolutely ridiculous argument.

From that I see:

A) There's 1550 houses available in London for less than 250k.
B) If you want to live in London and have a problem with your children living in a small house you should move the fuck out - NOT expect the taxpayer to fund your house size increase.

From that you see what you want to see, but once again, you're being ridiculous. The way you talk I was living in Blenheim Palace, not an small house in an average part of London. This debate has been had before ad nauseum, saying "fuck off out of London if you don't like it" doesn't reflect the reality of work and job mobility and you know it, and in actuality, that's the decision lots of people make anyway, moving the problem for mortgage costs to public transport.

You don't seem to be able to see that nobody gives a fuck about good-earner's disposable income. If they earn well they have *options* - and one of them, if they're struggling, is to downsize to increase the level of disposable income, or move further out to get a bigger house for the same money.

People who earn 20k and have children don't have that option - and deserve a bit of help.

People who earn 60k and have children are capable of helping themselves...

And you're missing the point again. Of course a family on 60K has more options than one on 20K, but its NOT clear cut and as I've been trying to illustrate (but as usual on here unless you cross every i and dot every t everyone just nit picks in the gaps), in parts of the country 60K isn't particularly well off compared to other parts. This is self-evident, and arbitrarily setting lines based on gross incomes misrepresents the real incomes available to families.

 

[Vae]

I agree with Gaffer here. Setting arbitrary limits on income fails to deal with the wide spread in cost of living in the country. A £60k wage in London is more like £40k in other areas of the country but the cost of living is that much higher as well that the amount of disposable income would be equal. The same issue applies to inheritance tax. Gaffers house in London would be well above the limit but an equivalent house in another area of the country would fall below it. However it a largely unsolvable issue but doesn't stop people (as shown on here) saying that people on £60k are rich. What Gaffers tried to point out is the context matters.

 

[Nate]

in parts of the country 60K isn't particularly well off compared to other parts.

So your point is that some people choose to live in an area where they are a low earner compared to the rest of the neighbourhood and thus deserve benefit?

Or, what is your point here?

 

[soze]

Sorry you should not be given a handout so you can live where you want to live. You should live where you can afford to live. If you have a child and that makes living difficult where you are then you need to move to a cheaper area. Yes the area might not be as nice and yes you might have extra travel but you decided to have a child then it is your responsibility.

So I do get that cost of living is different but you do not have to live in the high price areas.

 

[Mey]

Why the fuck would you want to bring up children in London anyway, it's a shit place to raise children.

Also can someone explain how someone can pay a tax bill of £630 (odd) for the year and get £650 (odd) child tax credits every month? I don't understand Child Tax credits at all..

 

[Raven]

I doubt many people get away with just £630 a year! Unless your name is Red Scouse.

 

[Mey]

O never mind I was confusing the idea of a Tax Credit as in you getting money back off your tax, not just a handout. Guess that explains the low tax submission for the year. Obviously didn't stop them buying a nice BMW though.

 

[Mey]

I doubt many people get away with just £630 a year! Unless your name is Red Scouse.

If the statement on the bill they handed me was anything to go by then they've got away with it for at least three years so far.

 

[Lamp]

You could pick a better government by taking a walk around the enclosures at London zoo, picking out animals at random, giving them suits, a couple of hundred-thousand constituents to ignore, and meaningless sound bites to churn out each time the cameras are looking at them. They couldn't be any more ineffective than this shower of shite coalition we have now.

 

[Bodhi]

Children are not a right. They cost money. Responsible people should go into it knowing they need to make changes. So sorry but if you can't afford kids buy condoms.

I like my nice house and my nice car. I also like to go out 3 nights a week and the babysitter is very expensive. If they take away my handouts I will have to stay in the UK this Christmas! Boo Fucking Hoo.

My parents both had two jobs to pay the bills so I am not a fan of the people who look for every last penny they can bleed out the the country.

Completely agree.

With your first point, the rest is bollocks. I doubt it is really down to the 100 quid or so people will lose a month thats making them upset, it's probably more to do with the fact people feel like they are having to give it up so Bazza and Shazza can keep popping out little Destinies and Apples without a second thought about going out to get a job to pay for them. The entire benefits system in this country is completely fucked, having been fiddled with by the last lot to create an entire section of registered voters entirely dependent on it. In my experience, these are the ones who try to drain every last penny they can out the system, rather than those on 50k or more. I mean if someone is paying 1600 quid a month in tax, why are we getting pissy because they get, what is effectively a rebate of 100 to help look after the kids?

If you ask me we have got it completely arse about tit in this country, we are encouraging the wrong people to breed. We throw money and houses at the lazy and the useless, yet us working folk (of all levels, within reason) are bummed up the rear at every opportunity for money for the mongs who won't get a job to give to Brighthouse. I'd rather cut out the middleman if I'm honest, at least id get a new fucking telly out of it.

I think y'all are pissed at the wrong people to be fair, its the ones who won't work at all we need to sort out, rather than this token appeal to the lefties. Like the charming young lady who declared to our local before Xmas that we were all mugs for working because she was making loads on benefits. We all know the type. Actually I live in Stafford, so know fecking loads of them.

 

[Vae]

Completely agree.

With your first point, the rest is bollocks. I doubt it is really down to the 100 quid or so people will lose a month thats making them upset, it's probably more to do with the fact people feel like they are having to give it up so Bazza and Shazza can keep popping out little Destinies and Apples without a second thought about going out to get a job to pay for them. The entire benefits system in this country is completely fucked, having been fiddled with by the last lot to create an entire section of registered voters entirely dependent on it. In my experience, these are the ones who try to drain every last penny they can out the system, rather than those on 50k or more. I mean if someone is paying 1600 quid a month in tax, why are we getting pissy because they get, what is effectively a rebate of 100 to help look after the kids?

If you ask me we have got it completely arse about tit in this country, we are encouraging the wrong people to breed. We throw money and houses at the lazy and the useless, yet us working folk (of all levels, within reason) are bummed up the rear at every opportunity for money for the mongs who won't get a job to give to Brighthouse. I'd rather cut out the middleman if I'm honest, at least id get a new fucking telly out of it.

I think y'all are pissed at the wrong people to be fair, its the ones who won't work at all we need to sort out, rather than this token appeal to the lefties. Like the charming young lady who declared to our local before Xmas that we were all mugs for working because she was making loads on benefits. We all know the type. Actually I live in Stafford, so know fecking loads of them.

It feels wrong, dirty somehow but I'm agreeing with Bodhi! I'm shocked! I'd fully expected you to be on the other side of the discussion.

 

[Tom]

What is it the UK spends, about £12bn annually on child benefit?

Radical idea - would £12bn pay for a network of childcare facilities so that most families could drop their kids into nursery/playschool, free of charge?

 

[old.Osy]

What is it the UK spends, about £12bn annually on child benefit?

Radical idea - would £12bn pay for a network of childcare facilities so that most families could drop their kids into nursery/playschool, free of charge?

That's just the first step. Next thing, the government will provide housing and jobs for you. Food and luxury commodities will be rationalized, but sufficient. The only catch is you will have to go the party's meetings once in a while to stamp your member card. You will love it, comrade.

 

[soze]

Completely agree.

With your first point, the rest is bollocks. I doubt it is really down to the 100 quid or so people will lose a month thats making them upset, it's probably more to do with the fact people feel like they are having to give it up so Bazza and Shazza can keep popping out little Destinies and Apples without a second thought about going out to get a job to pay for them. The entire benefits system in this country is completely fucked, having been fiddled with by the last lot to create an entire section of registered voters entirely dependent on it. In my experience, these are the ones who try to drain every last penny they can out the system, rather than those on 50k or more. I mean if someone is paying 1600 quid a month in tax, why are we getting pissy because they get, what is effectively a rebate of 100 to help look after the kids?

If you ask me we have got it completely arse about tit in this country, we are encouraging the wrong people to breed. We throw money and houses at the lazy and the useless, yet us working folk (of all levels, within reason) are bummed up the rear at every opportunity for money for the mongs who won't get a job to give to Brighthouse. I'd rather cut out the middleman if I'm honest, at least id get a new fucking telly out of it.

I think y'all are pissed at the wrong people to be fair, its the ones who won't work at all we need to sort out, rather than this token appeal to the lefties. Like the charming young lady who declared to our local before Xmas that we were all mugs for working because she was making loads on benefits. We all know the type. Actually I live in Stafford, so know fecking loads of them.

I agree with you that that the bottom feeders need to be sorted out but I don't agree that I am angry at the wrong people. People who earn £60k and still try to get everything they can form the goverment are just as guilty of trying to bleed the country dry as Bazza and Shazza. Ok they do pay tax (maybe) but then they still sit there with a hand out whether they need it or not.

 

[DaGaffer]

What is it the UK spends, about £12bn annually on child benefit?

Radical idea - would £12bn pay for a network of childcare facilities so that most families could drop their kids into nursery/playschool, free of charge?

That would be far too sensible.

 

[Poag]

Bit on Radio 1 last night as I was driving home about child benefit.

They had two people on, 1 a working woman, has no children and is putting off due to childcare costs already, who said the drop in child benefit made them postpone for longer so they could save some money for it.

Second, 21 year old single mum, currently heavily pregnant with another child by another father. Who said it "Unfair, we didn't ask to be put in this situation"


I almost crashed.

 

[Scouse]

The entire benefits system in this country is completely fucked

It's not the benefits system - it's the wages that aren't worth working for.

we are encouraging the wrong people to breed

That's just what [godwins law] said, sir

its the ones who won't work at all we need to sort out, rather than this token appeal to the lefties. Like the charming young lady who declared to our local before Xmas that we were all mugs for working because she was making loads on benefits.

Low income earners ARE mugs for working.

It's not because benefits give them a luxurious lifestyle and BMW's though - it's because wages are so shit that you're a fucking idiot if you don't choose free time and a frugal lifestyle over slave labour and a frugal lifestyle...

 

[Scouse]

That's just the first step. Next thing, the government will provide housing and jobs for you. Food and luxury commodities will be rationalized, but sufficient. The only catch is you will have to go the party's meetings once in a while to stamp your member card. You will love it, comrade.

So, spend 12bn on ineffective childcare handouts that don't actually help people or 12bn on a childcare system that would enable parents to go out and work with their kiddies looked after.

Oh noes! It's not a "free" market based idea. Therefore not worth consideration!

/sheep...

 

[Poag]

Bring back to work houses!

Compete with China for bare minimum fabrication facilities!

Just gonna repost this again. Add "with daycare" to the top line.
Most problems solved. No worky no benefity.

 

[Scouse]

Rubber bullets fired at low-paid protesters in South Africa

worker, Aubrey Louw, 47, told Reuters he had worked on the farms since the 1970s when he received 45 rand a day.
"Now we get 65 rand. What is that? We want 150 rand. Farmers would rather employ security guards and buy new cars than pay us"

Much like business-owners the world over.

Don't be so quick to judge the low paid.

 

[Raven]

So, spend 12bn on ineffective childcare handouts that don't actually help people or 12bn on a childcare system that would enable parents to go out and work with their kiddies looked after.

Oh noes! It's not a "free" market based idea. Therefore not worth consideration!

/sheep...

The problem is child carers get paid fuck all...despite the training required, the patience in looking after all the spoilt little cunts and the responsibility. There is a shortage in good staff as it is. My wife has been doing it for 15 years. She gets around 15k as a deputy manager of a special needs place. She has done wonders with some of the kids, including getting a boy who was so shy that he was mute (I can't remember the disorders name) to talk. She even learnt a bit of Bengali as a few of the kids spoke it as a first language...

For 15k...after 15 years experience...

She is fucking it off to become a teacher.