simple solution to buffbotts

[Sendraks]

, or in a very gimped group.

Or actually good enough to manage without Buffs. Some people do run without uber buffs or without buffs at all and manage pretty well in RvR. Its stands to reason that they'd do better with buffs perhaps, but I guess its a case of sorting the men from the boys or those who stand around at apk waiting for a cleric that may never come and those who get stuck in.

 

[Saggy]

Or actually good enough to manage without Buffs. Some people do run without uber buffs or without buffs at all and manage pretty well in RvR. Its stands to reason that they'd do better with buffs perhaps, but I guess its a case of sorting the men from the boys or those who stand around at apk waiting for a cleric that may never come and those who get stuck in.

Read the underlined part:

Besides I really don't see it's such an issue - Mythic have stated they expect people to play buffed most of the time. If you decide to go RvRing without buffs you're either a stealther without a bot, or in a very gimped group. In the former case you just have to suck it up and either get a bot or deal with it. In the latter case, you should try getting half-decent groups, lets face it leaving the pk without any buff classes means you have no healers and you're going to get steamrollered within minutes.

By splitting the sentences we can get fairly dunny quotes, example incoming!

good enough to manage without pretty boys

No offence meant, just would like people to pay some attention on what others are writing and learn some forum manners while at it

 

[Danya]

As Saggy says - no healers was the point, not no buffs. I wouldn't want to RvR without healers, unless I were playing a stealther. It's just asking for a kicking.

 

[vintervargen]

rvr balance would be fun without buffbots shamans/na druids/clerics and so on.

 

[Sendraks]

As Saggy says - no healers was the point, not no buffs. I wouldn't want to RvR without healers, unless I were playing a stealther. It's just asking for a kicking.

Sorry, I wasn't clear in my point, which was meant to include Buffs and healers in general. So I'll rephrase my post to read...

Or actually good enough to manage without Buffs and a healer. Some people do run without uber buffs or without buffs and a healer at all and manage pretty well in RvR. Its stands to reason that they'd do better with buffs perhaps, but I guess its a case of sorting the men from the boys or those who stand around at apk waiting for a cleric that may never come and those who get stuck in.

Is that better? I admit that my previous post did actually miss the salient point I was trying to make. To put a spin on what Saggy said, its less a case of me not paying attention what Danya said, and more a case of me not paying attention to what I was writing in my own frikkin post.

 

[Bunnytwo]

An extra £8/month is pretty trivial really - I spend more than that on lunch most days. I would say most people with a job could afford the extra 25p per day to run a second account so money isn't really an argument. Even moreso in 1.70 when /clientsleep gets added allowing better running of two accounts on one comp.

Would say its more of a point of shouldn't have to purchase and run two accounts to be able to play effectively. If remember rightly it states that you need an internet connection to play on the box, doesn't state that you'll need a second account if you want to compete as a stealther class.

Thing I find amusing is that most of the people who constantly whine about stealthers grouping/adding etc as being unskilled and not playing to the spirit of the game have got buffbots.

 

[Klonk]

Who are those uber groups who run unbuffed? Gimme names ^^

This is a game, you are supposed to have fun. If you play a solo class, you will have a great deal more fun if your toon is buffed (unless you fancy loosing over winning), and if you have any other class that you want to get ToA equipped, you will have a great deal more fun if you can level your artifact with buffs. imo. Why choose not to have more fun when the extra expenditure you're facing are minimal? Yes, I say minimal, if your budget is so tight you cant afford 300NOK (27GBP ca) for another copy and another 90NOK (7GBP ca) a month, then seek out your local government shelter, then you are poor imo

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

limit buffs per player ie have a indivdual player conc

eg.

cleric/druid/shammy has no conc... only the players themselves have a limit to say ... 5 buffs ?

that way a cleric siting at apk boared can buff everyone they see and maby the guild or maby even a whole alliance could be limited to one buffbot.

I second that idea! very nice one fortune
only make the limit higher cos with 5 buffs y'ain't getting that far. I myself as an aug healer have 15 buffs I can cast on myself.


one other thing though... I don't think that it's the price of the game that's keeping most from getting a buffbot, but it's the terror of getting him thru all those levels again...

and well.. for me it's the money though... I can't possibly see myself buying another DAoC, SI and ToA just to get a couple of extra buffs....

 

[Klonk]

If remember rightly it states that you need an internet connection to play on the box, doesn't state that you'll need a second account if you want to compete as a stealther class.

This is only correct if you assume the game came with some kind of "guaranteed 20% winning fights" guarantee, which it doesn't. From a legal point of view, you don't _need_ a buffbot to _play_ the game as a stealther, but ofc you would _want_ one as you are going to loose 95% of the 1vs1 fights. You wanting one is not the equivalent of you needing one, in a legal sense.

Following your logic, the box would also have to say: "You need to not spec 20 hammer 20 sword 20 axe 20 parry as a warrior to play". The box states excactly what most ppl would think it should state; the actual minimum requirements to actually boot up the game and play it with a certain kind of graphic etc. It doesn't say what you need to WIN every fight and not to be gimped ingame.

 

[Bunnytwo]

Oh gawd you actually thought I meant they should be legally required to put that on the box!

Don't remember actually mentioning anything about the law. Though if you do you should actually try and get it right, a supplier is obliged to take into account, while providing information, of the reasonable requirements of the consumer when using a product (thats one of the reasons why they give recommendations). And no before you get carried away thats not stating or implying that BB fit in there either . . .

Sheeesh

 

[Danya]

Or actually good enough to manage without Buffs and a healer. Some people do run without uber buffs or without buffs and a healer at all and manage pretty well in RvR. Its stands to reason that they'd do better with buffs perhaps, but I guess its a case of sorting the men from the boys or those who stand around at apk waiting for a cleric that may never come and those who get stuck in.

Why would you want to RvR without a healer? That's just crazy, unless you have a deathwish. It's not about sorting the men from the boys, it's about sorting people with sense from those who just like to see the ressick icon. That sort of stupid machoism is bullshit.

Would say its more of a point of shouldn't have to purchase and run two accounts to be able to play effectively. If remember rightly it states that you need an internet connection to play on the box, doesn't state that you'll need a second account if you want to compete as a stealther class.

Losing every fight is still playing, so it shouldn't be on the box. Quake didn't come with a "you will need to be able to aim" requirement, nor did CS come with "you will need a 20 ping and aimbot to compete" on the box.

 

[Sendraks]

Why would you want to RvR without a healer? That's just crazy, unless you have a deathwish. It's not about sorting the men from the boys, it's about sorting people with sense from those who just like to see the ressick icon. That sort of stupid machoism is bullshit.

Hey, people do it! People do it and are successful. Raking in 10k rps of evening without a healer or BB is, to my mind, is doing pretty well. Of course you could argue that they'd do better with a healer, I'd agre with you, but if it was a choice between getting 10k rps without, or waiting for an hour for a cleric to appear and only get 5krps safely, the numbers favour the former over the latter.

Its not about having a deathwish or stupid machosim, its about a willingness to make things work without a FOTM group or simply without a healer. If you choose the fights in your favour, use tactics against superior numbers, then you will come out a winner. If your plan is not to get hurt in the first place, then you can learn to manage without a healer. If you're not dead and they are. Then you have the RPs and they have the RS icon.

I do prefer to run with a cleric, because you are quite right, they do make life a lot easier. But people do run without clerics and they do manage without. Thats all there is to it.

 

[Ormorof]

Oh gawd you actually thought I meant they should be legally required to put that on the box!

Don't remember actually mentioning anything about the law. Though if you do you should actually try and get it right, a supplier is obliged to take into account, while providing information, of the reasonable requirements of the consumer when using a product (thats one of the reasons why they give recommendations). And no before you get carried away thats not stating or implying that BB fit in there either . . .

Sheeesh

you dont NEED a buffbot, theres plenty of them already, just leech some buffs from someone else ( i mean Dwera is like rr8 and leeches buffs of me all the time! )

 

[Weylander]

Who are those uber groups who run unbuffed? Gimme names ^^

Why choose not to have more fun when the extra expenditure you're facing are minimal? Yes, I say minimal, if your budget is so tight you cant afford 300NOK (27GBP ca) for another copy and another 90NOK (7GBP ca) a month, then seek out your local government shelter, then you are poor imo

Some people are in a situation whereby they cannot afford it, simple as that. I know someone who is in a position whereby they cannot work and get very little money, why should they not be allowed to play the game and play the game to its fullest?? he can't leave the house on his own what else is there to do? As someone stated earlier " all it says on the box is network connection required", what it should say now is " network connection and 2 accounts required to play the game fully" emphasizing FULLY here.

Someone else said "25% of the accounts will be BB's and They don't want to lose that revenue" All i say to that is what about the people that left the game because of BB's and the people put off playin the game because of them?? I would wager its more than the current amount of BB accounts.

This is a game we should all be able to play to its fullest regardless of how much cash we have. Range limit on buffs plz!!!!! before you let the game destroy itself.

 

[Ctuchik]

Mythic is working on removing the buffbots, or atleast make them very less apeeling. but they cant do that in a matter of 1 patch. then every mofo that DO have a buffbot would simply quit, and Mythic dont really want that for obvious reasons...

read some interview with the lead dude at Mythic, Matt Frior? that by the time catacombs arrive, they would have a doable sollution for buffbots.

or something along that line..

 

[Afuldan]

I've always lived by my saying that using a buffbot is pretty much signing an admission to being talentless. Tbh I don't much care who this offends, because if you use a bot you need to have the facts pointed out. I can live with retarded albs bringing legendary weaps to thidranki, or folks in the 5-9 bg wearing all-black (ffs), but buffbots are a subject which i am very clear about. It takes absolutely 0 talent at all to have an afk bot sitting in oyur pk making you twice as powerful, and i can't help but laugh at some of the the utterly rediculous things i see sometimes. there have been instances where i have perfed an AVALONIAN for a third of his health. Luckily for me, as indicated by his bot, he didn't know how to play the game...so he just started running...i tailed his ass for about 2 minutes befoire he dropped. he dropped 12 buffs. 12. W T F. There is a reaver that has 4. 4 buffbots. that is just overdoing it.

Myself, I do not use buffs, even when given to me. If im not grouped with the buffer, then it is a bot, and i will drop the buffs. I don't care if it reduces my chances of success, I will not smear my good name to beat some powergamer who is probably 14 years old and getting his mother to pay for his accounts.

 

[Ormorof]

I will not smear my good name to beat some powergamer who is probably 14 years old and getting his mother to pay for his accounts.

lol

so people who use bots are 14 years old now? wow, i have a guy in guild who (isnt a powergamer either) is 35+ is married with kids.... dunno if his mother pays for his accounts though

truth of the matter is alot of people, use a bot because either:
a) they want to "compete" in rvr
or
b) sometimes they dont have time to wait for 3-4 others (nonbuff classes i mean ) to gather to do something they can do alone with their bot

personally i use my bot as a mix of both, i find/found it very frustrating to have to sit around and wait 2 hours to gather a group to do a relatively simple mob

 

[Sendraks]

and i can't help but laugh at some of the the utterly rediculous things i see sometimes. there have been instances where i have perfed an AVALONIAN for a third of his health.

Aye, its about as galling as playing an unbuffed tank and having a Buffed stealther solo you. When an assassin class character can solo a tank simply by the expenditure of extra cash on a 2nd account, you have to say that there is something wrong with the game.

 

[Afuldan]

@Orm

When it's for PvE I could care less. I know how stupid it can be trying to get a group for something. But PvP wise if nobody used a bot in the FIRST PLACE you wouldn't need them to compete. So basically if everyone HAD a bot (which about every 1 out of 2 do now) we'd all be handing mythic free money. Stupid.

@Send

Exactly. Perfing a yellow inf and having him garrote me to death is just stupid.

 

[Iceflower]

>At the moment we have exactly the system you list, for the premium account you buy the game and subscribe twice.

Most certainly not! Today only those with the proper hardware requirements gets the premium account with is a rather discriminating method.

The most interesting thing about this thread is how indoctrinated the buffbot proponents show they are by their arguments they use. Just how many of you would purchase the daily newspaper if the store clerk required you to pay twice the cover price? or movie ticket? or a new car?

 

[Thorwyn]

Did you ever try to level your GSV unbuffed on blue con beetles (because the orange cons will kill you and the yellow cons will bring you to 50% hp´s?

Also, the "play the game to full potential" thingy... you can! There are no restricted areas when playing unbuffed, you can still deal damage and cast spells and earn xp and rp´s. It just takes longer. But you know what.. you´ll always face opponents who´re better equipped, have a higher RR, higher ML, better artis and a better template. Buffs and Buffbots are certainly a factor, but I really think you guys are overestimating.
And the guy who can´t affort to pay for two accounts.... there are also people who can´t afford to pay for one account. Shall we ask GoA to make the game completely free so we don´t have to exclude them? Shall we ask them to make DAOC run on a P1/160 because there are some people who can´t afford the hardware? You´ll always find someone who can´t afford "something".

 

[Cunnyfunt]

i like the idea of revamping alchemy that someone suggested, making stat buff potions last 30 mins or so and granting stat buff potions much earlier on. Another idea would be to grant assassin classes 5 alchemy skill per spec point in envenom, as they are hands down the class with the least groupability. Off the top of my head id say grant the buff potion at 15x the spell level for base buffs and 20 x the level for specs. So for example a alchemist could make the first druid buff in hib at 30 alc. (level 2 spell , minor bark skin +12 af) and the first spec buff at 40 alc (hunters attack, level 2 spell +8%). level 50 base buff would require 750 alc and level 50 spec 1000. Make the potions untradable like /level gear and you have the problem of an ungroupable character needing buffs to compete, solved without compromising the role of buffers in a group. oh yeah and make castable buffs ranged and group only mythic has stated that the game is balanced on the assumption that everyone is fully buffed, why design classess with no group utility then?

 

[Gamah]

Is it that time again? Another Buffbot nerf post, when will people accept mythic won't do anything about them.

 

[Cunnyfunt]

Is it that time again? Another Buffbot nerf post, when will people accept mythic won't do anything about them.

Actually m8 matt firor has said in a recent interview that mythic are going to be taking several measures to deal with 'the buffbot problem' to make them less attractive, but they will do it over time so they dont get a shitload of people cancelling their bot accounts at once. i think thats why the subject has come up again

 

[rivan]

Solutions to the buffbot issue imo, with mid classes as an example:

Range Linked Buffs

The further away you move from the entity that buffed you, the less effective the buff becomes. A gradient-teather, if you like. This makes moving away from a buffbot viable, but does impose a penalty; it's a less severe way to limit a Buffbot in RvR than on/off ranged.

Example below, with numbers picked out of think air just to illustrate a point.

.000 - .500 100%
.501 - .700 90%
.701 - .800 80%
.801 - .900 70%
.901 - 1000 60%
1001 - 1100 50%
1101 - 1200 40%
1201 - 1300 30%
1301 - 1400 20%
1401 - 1500 10%
1501 - **** 00%


Base buffs for the masses

Shamans get AoE Spec buffs in their Aug line (which imo was a very good idea), give Healers AoE base buffs in their Aug line. These buffs should be around 50-60% of the conc buff to make them worthwhile but not make the conc version of that buff obselete.

 

[Boni]

>At the moment we have exactly the system you list, for the premium account you buy the game and subscribe twice.

Most certainly not! Today only those with the proper hardware requirements gets the premium account with is a rather discriminating method.

The most interesting thing about this thread is how indoctrinated the buffbot proponents show they are by their arguments they use. Just how many of you would purchase the daily newspaper if the store clerk required you to pay twice the cover price? or movie ticket? or a new car?

Again its just down to the market. Mythic developers can leave the engine at the stage it was three years ago, or they can give us an engine that is at least seen to compete with other games. If they dont compete, they dont get new subscriptions, and of course they can earn extra cash by making new versions that add to the engine as they go, and charge more $$$ all good business.

and as for your analogy, well many of us might read two newspapers a day, goto two movies or buy two cars, I would certainly buy two newspapers a day if it gave me the edge in current affairs that a buffbot gives a soloer in rvr.

 

[Iceflower]

Of course it is up to the market and Matt's recent post that is referred to up hereis most probably to how Mythic reads the market at the moment.

>well many of us might read two newspapers a day, goto two movies or buy two cars

But not identical ones? or are you reading one with each eye? Personally I read two morning papers, one general and one business version, so they are very different in what they provide me with. A game comparison would be like subscribing to Daoc and SWG rather than two copies of Daoc. At the end of the day you have been persuaded to pay twice for on service, and the fact that you dont see it yourself is quite illuminating for people that market goods for the masses, you are simply the perfect customer.

 

[Lethania]

<shrug> im all for making buffs ranged but saying that you cant afford a 2nd account is silly, and you can run 2 acc's on one PC (and PC's that can handle that are pretty cheap now too)

though i understand if you need to pay the high rent charged in some places (especially UK rent seems damn expensive for some reason) and pay for car etc etc, but i guess that means that your prioritys (which is probably a good thing ) lie elsewhere so you shouldnt really whine about not being able to afford £30 or whatever for the game CD's if you drive around in a fancy car

I cant play 2 accounts on my computer, can hardly play 1 account properly, and if the comps are so cheap you are welcome to come and buy me one I have 2 account so yes I have the possibility to have a bb if I want to, but no where ot play it..

 

[Tholus]

Is it that time again? Another Buffbot nerf post, when will people accept mythic won't do anything about them.

I'll keep replying EVERY time.
It is probably useless, but it takes me only 1 min to make Mythic remember that I personally STRONGLY disagree with this policy about BBs.

Is not a matter of money, nor a matter of PC.
Is simply that this is STUPID.

And I want Mythic/GOA to know that me (a payng customer since march 2002) will put this as NUMBER 1 reason to leave for another game when there will be a valid alternative.

I am not sayng I will leave, I don't think a game yet to be released can be analizable, I am still a big DAoC fan, DAoC is (with the Sid Meier's Civilization series) still my favourite game ever....
I only say that when WoW will be out and me (as everyone else) will make my evaluation the difference in the buff systems will be the first line of my DAoC vs WoW evaluation sheet.

 

[Thugs]

Buffbots

Well I think the fact that Mythic makes more money from people having multiple accounts because of the need to have buffbots also lose money too. Consider my game play for instance. Single account - buffbot account after a while. Girlfriend stops playing so I end up with her account for haste. Now I have 3 accounts. This was so I could see the effects haste had on my 2 handed crit sb. It made a lot of difference. When the time came for the accounts to be paid for I stopped them. No way am I paying for 3 accounts but I was sorely tempted to. Enough is enough. Played unbuffed in Thid forra while and everything is and was fine against other unbuffed players - i still killed them. Level 50 combat unbuffed? Nah would end up paying for 3 accounts I know it. No more for me I need the money.

I mean you need 2 accounts if you want to swap stuff over from alt to alt. This was the reason I had 2 accounts in the first place. And please don't say about asking for help cos if you have crafters on one you are going to be screaming for help all the damn time - sod that. After all this time you still can't do this without help which is absolutely pathetic in my eyes. No idea if you can do this when you have a house as I never purchased one.