Should we adopt Zero Tollerance to reduce crime ?

[MYstIC G]

And theres the problem.

In the USA, a dead burglar in someone's house is treated as a good thing.

In the USA being the size of a horse isn't discouraged... so what the fuck do they know about anything? Stop whining via comparison, it's like hearing a child go "but Timmy did it!"

Edit: PS, the gun thing... sorry Throddy but your perspective is bent, we all know the criminals have them, letting everyone else have them isn't going to change things. More guns would just lead to more deaths, bottom line. Also I think more than a slim proportion of the public are clearly mental anyway, just look at the ratings for "reality" TV shows. Got enough to think about on a daily basis other than "is that mental patient in waiting packing heat"

Edit 2: PPS, not that I think criminals losing their breathing privileges is a bad thing btw.

 

[Skyler]

More guns = more potential harm to people = more deaths = bad.

Although I must say I kind of worry more about knives than guns, since they are far more easily available, seem to be easier for a criminal to 'use' on you (less nerves than pulling a trigger or something) and can be far more easily concealed.

There are too many weapons around already, but I don't see a way to control the quantity of knives people have and use as 'protection' or to hurt people.

 

[Tom]

I'm loving how people think that relaxing the gun laws would mean more nutters with guns.

The only way that nutters get guns is if they obtain them illegally, or as Throddy has said, they're not supervised properly.

I tell you what, this year, I'm buying a shotgun. I want to go and shoot clays, its fun. I've done it before and I was good at it. A mate's dad goes and shoots pigeons, phesants and rabbits, well I fancy a bit of that too.

 

[Calaen]

I'm loving how people think that relaxing the gun laws would mean more nutters with guns.

The only way that nutters get guns is if they obtain them illegally, or as Throddy has said, they're not supervised properly.

I tell you what, this year, I'm buying a shotgun. I want to go and shoot clays, its fun. I've done it before and I was good at it. A mate's dad goes and shoots pigeons, phesants and rabbits, well I fancy a bit of that too.

You cannot prove it would not mean more nutters with guns though can you?

 

[Tom]

Well no not really. But thats my opinion. You'll get the odd nutter coming through, you always do in every field of life.

I just think that gun restrictions in this country are a stupid overreaction.

 

[throdgrain]

I give up, its like banging your head against a brick wall. When they make computer games illegal because they damage peoples brains, then you can have something to complain about eh?
When they ban Macdonalds because it has too much salt in it.
When they ban fishing because its cruel to fish.
When they ban smoking because it gives you cancer.
When they never allow any freedom of choice or self regulation of anything, because , after all, Big Brother* knows best. Then like as not most of you will still agree with it, as you've been force-fed so much bullshit its coming out of your ears.
When you make hunting deer illegal because of course, a) it involves guns and b) its cruel to poor little Bambi. Dont worry that the deer had a free healthy life, just trot off to Bernard Matthews huge fucking sheds where 100's of thousands of turkeys live without ever seeing natural sunlight, and get your self a couple of burgers.
That, more than anything, emphasizes the stupidity of the people living in and running this country today.

























*That has NOTHING to do with Shipla Shetty by the way.

 

[Jupitus]

*That has NOTHING to do with Shipla Shetty by the way.

Jeez Throddy! You can't even spell her name right, you must be a racist!!!!!

 

[throdgrain]

Jeez Throddy! You can't even spell her name right, you must be a racist!!!!!

Bah caught out

 

[tris-]

I give up, its like banging your head against a brick wall. When they make computer games illegal because they damage peoples brains, then you can have something to complain about eh?
.

now germany holds the chair for the EU, this might be a reality soon

 

[Louster]

I give up, its like banging your head against a brick wall. When they make computer games illegal because they damage peoples brains, then you can have something to complain about eh?
When they ban Macdonalds because it has too much salt in it.
When they ban fishing because its cruel to fish.
When they ban smoking because it gives you cancer.

If any of these examples could be used to kill on a moment's impulse, these might be more valid analogies. Maybe.

Also the hypocrisy in you yelling "NOBODY LISTENS TO MMEEEEE" is pretty funny. Since when did you listen to anyone else, either? As far as I can see, your views have remained as utterly static as anyone else's on here, so that is a fundamentally useless line of criticism.

Edit: in fact, it's basically the way things work in 'debates' in general and on here in particular. People yell their views at each other and get pissed off when other people disagree. Hooray. But I guess what makes you different is that YOU'RE RIGHT!!!!!

 

[MYstIC G]

+++++++++++++++++1 Lou

 

[throdgrain]

If any of these examples could be used to kill on a moment's impulse, these might be more valid analogies. Maybe.

Also the hypocrisy in you yelling "NOBODY LISTENS TO MMEEEEE" is pretty funny. Since when did you listen to anyone else, either? As far as I can see, your views have remained as utterly static as anyone else's on here, so that is a fundamentally useless line of criticism.

Edit: in fact, it's basically the way things work in 'debates' in general and on here in particular. People yell their views at each other and get pissed off when other people disagree. Hooray. But I guess what makes you different is that YOU'RE RIGHT!!!!!

You're completely right, thats why I give up. And you can kill someone with a housebrick btw.

 

[MYstIC G]

Let's not degenerate this into what you can and cannot kill people with, that's just pathetic.

*kills throd with deadly knob impaling*

 

[Asha]

I'm loving how people think that relaxing the gun laws would mean more nutters with guns.

The only way that nutters get guns is if they obtain them illegally, or as Throddy has said, they're not supervised properly.

I tell you what, this year, I'm buying a shotgun. I want to go and shoot clays, its fun. I've done it before and I was good at it. A mate's dad goes and shoots pigeons, phesants and rabbits, well I fancy a bit of that too.

I know several nutters with guns. You don't have to pass a sanity exam to get a gun... Murder is usually someone you know anyhow. That's why I wish we didn't have so many hand guns in the USA. If you find your wife cheating on you and you have a gun at hand, you're much more likely to kill her imo. Or whatever the situation is.

I don't think they help you guard your home either unless you sleep with it under your pillow or something. If you have children, then you're going to have to keep the gun and the bullets separate and well hidden. That isn't really helpful if someone breaks in. You'd be better off calling the police in the time you have imo.

I have no problem with hunting guns/clay shooting guns tbh.

 

[throdgrain]

In fairness Asha, from your post I assume your in the USA. Over here there will never be such a relaxed attitude to guns.
Even to go back to the pre-1996 days , you would still have to have two safes (one for gun, one for ammo) have two interviews with the police and a pretty spotless criminal record. You also need to have somewhere to shoot it too, ie a club or land htat has already been checked over and ok'd by the police.
For my shotgun licence the procedure was much the same, except I only need one safe and I only had one police interview.
The only nutters with guns over here are the criminals, and re-licensing hand guns wouldnt really make any difference to that.

 

[nath]

I give up, its like banging your head against a brick wall. When they make computer games illegal because they damage peoples brains, then you can have something to complain about eh?
When they ban Macdonalds because it has too much salt in it.
When they ban fishing because its cruel to fish.
When they ban smoking because it gives you cancer.
When they never allow any freedom of choice or self regulation of anything, because , after all, Big Brother* knows best. Then like as not most of you will still agree with it, as you've been force-fed so much bullshit its coming out of your ears.
When you make hunting deer illegal because of course, a) it involves guns and b) its cruel to poor little Bambi. Dont worry that the deer had a free healthy life, just trot off to Bernard Matthews huge fucking sheds where 100's of thousands of turkeys live without ever seeing natural sunlight, and get your self a couple of burgers.
That, more than anything, emphasizes the stupidity of the people living in and running this country today.

Yeah ok, so completely ignore the fact that I was actually trying to understand your position, get fucked off and start spouting the usual anti liberal rhetoric. Good one mate.

By the way, your argument for owning guns could be applied to much more powerful ordnance but obviously there's a line. Personally I'm not sure that they should be llegal - I'm not sure they should be legal either. I think it's possible there could be some sort of middle ground that meant I could go to a gun club and shoot the shit out of some paper, and not be allowed to take one home. I'm genuinely undecided on the situation and I was actually interested in finding out why you think as you do.

Anyway - this discussion is clearly going nowhere as you have your head so firmly up your own arse that you can't conceive that other people could disagree with you for valid reasons.

 

[throdgrain]

Yeah ok, so completely ignore the fact that I was actually trying to understand your position, get fucked off and start spouting the usual anti liberal rhetoric. Good one mate.

By the way, your argument for owning guns could be applied to much more powerful ordnance but obviously there's a line. Personally I'm not sure that they should be llegal - I'm not sure they should be legal either. I think it's possible there could be some sort of middle ground that meant I could go to a gun club and shoot the shit out of some paper, and not be allowed to take one home. I'm genuinely undecided on the situation and I was actually interested in finding out why you think as you do.

Anyway - this discussion is clearly going nowhere as you have your head so firmly up your own arse that you can't conceive that other people could disagree with you for valid reasons.

Err I wasnt having a dig at you luv, sorry if it seemed that way

Gun clubs are completely the way, check my last post. I never thought the idea of people walking around with handguns in holsters was going to happen to be honest

My apologies if some of the things I say dont come over very clearly, I guess I expect people to understand what I mean and where Im coming from without really knowing. In 1996 I had left school 16 years previously, so it doesnt seem that long ago to me! Never was it or is it likely to be allowed that people can shoot guns anywhere they like in this country, its too small and too over-crowded, particularly in the South East.
That doesnt mean to say that people should be banned from owning hand guns for use at guin clubs. They were and should be allowed to store them at home in recognised safes (see my post above) ,but firing them other than at approved sites should be reserved for moments of dire emergency only in my opinion.
Totally the same as my guns are today. Id be in deep shit if I fired one in my back garden I assure you !

 

[Asha]

In fairness Asha, from your post I assume your in the USA. Over here there will never be such a relaxed attitude to guns.
Even to go back to the pre-1996 days , you would still have to have two safes (one for gun, one for ammo) have two interviews with the police and a pretty spotless criminal record. You also need to have somewhere to shoot it too, ie a club or land htat has already been checked over and ok'd by the police.
For my shotgun licence the procedure was much the same, except I only need one safe and I only had one police interview.
The only nutters with guns over here are the criminals, and re-licensing hand guns wouldnt really make any difference to that.

So how is that going to help you protect yourself when you're at home sleeping and someone breaks in - gun in one safe, ammo in another? Not being funny, I just don't see the point. Why not just leave it at the shooting range. And why does a gun that is supposedly for the fun of target practice need to be lethal?

I'm kinda ticked off with guns over here since my six year old niece told me last week how her uncle (15 year old kid) "showed her how grandpop's gun goes click click"

 

[Tom]

I would imagine confronting a burglar with an empty weapon would be just as anus-quiveringly scary as a loaded weapon. Its not as though with a gun pointed at you, you'd be daft enough to risk it.

 

[tris-]

You'd be better off calling the police in the time you have imo.

ROFL. call the police.... thats fucking priceless.

 

[throdgrain]

So how is that going to help you protect yourself when you're at home sleeping and someone breaks in - gun in one safe, ammo in another? Not being funny, I just don't see the point. Why not just leave it at the shooting range. And why does a gun that is supposedly for the fun of target practice need to be lethal?

I'm kinda ticked off with guns over here since my six year old niece told me last week how her uncle (15 year old kid) "showed her how grandpop's gun goes click click"

Im just explaining how it was. The fact is at the moment you cant even leave it at the shooting range, you cant own it at all.

But then Ive said all this already, getting boring now. Its what I was saying about people not reading anything anyone says about 3 pages ago, and oddly enough Louster was saying from the opposite side about a page ago.

Frankly I wonder if theres ever a point in discussing anything with more than 3 people involved, on the net or in real life for that matter

 

[MYstIC G]

Frankly I wonder if theres ever a point in discussing anything with more than 3 people involved, on the net or in real life for that matter

Hot chicks?

 

[throdgrain]

And badgers. But other than that, nothing





ps, Trem did really shoot his mum, which is a fact I think has gone un noticed in this thread for some reason!

 

[Trem]

I swear I saw a porno once where a woman was killed by penis, he rammed it down her throat and choked her.

My penis is deadly

 

[throdgrain]

Just as a ps, here is a list of firearms restrictions for France by the way, not exactly baddass murder central !
You will notice thier restrictions are considerably less that ours.

 

[MYstIC G]

Please stop with the "But Timmy has one" line people. You want less restrictions, that's fine, just say so, repeat it 1000 times if you like. Just realise that what the French (or anyone else) do, doesn't matter a crap and there's always the uber crap retort of "so go live there then" anyway, i.e. this sorta line almost always results in a 'pointless spiral'

2/10 Throddy
(mostly as you didn't mention hot chicks )

 

[throdgrain]

Yer arse ! The French are hardly the wildest kind of people was my point.

 

[DaGaffer]

Yer arse ! The French are hardly the wildest kind of people was my point.

Actually France was a pretty poor example to choose as they have had the highest rises in violent crime in the EU over the last decade (16% up, along with Greece and Portugal), whereas in Engand & Wales its actually dropped 2%...

 

[throdgrain]

Shuddup google stats boy

On a lighter note, today I won my mortgage to be paid for 3 months which whilst I admit is totally unrelated, is also rather jolly

 

[Skyler]

Actually France was a pretty poor example to choose as they have had the highest rises in violent crime in the EU over the last decade (16% up, along with Greece and Portugal), whereas in Engand & Wales its actually dropped 2%...

Ours has in no way fallen, just the way it's reported or categorised has changed.

You don't see less and less cases of violent crime in England, you see more and more. Street crime continues to rise and shows no sign of decreasing.

Infact I would be surprised if any crime is going down over this year in England, since Prisons are obviously full and they can't even find, let alone put away 300 child molesters. Clearly there is a serious problem that needs rectifying.

Any violation/invasion of privacy type crimes should be punished more severely since they are personal in nature and adversely effect the victims a lot more for a long time afterwards. Giving someone who threatens your life for your phone a slap on the wrist and an ASBO (if they even get caught) is wrong. They should be removed from the streets for many years!