FH news Should DAOC OT Move

[Deebs]

Vote away.

 

[old.Osy]

Move it, don't merge it.

edit: Oh and, mornin'

 

[xomer]

move it or leave it where it is.

 

[CorNokZ]

We're fine.. No need for general peeps in OT

 

[Ormorof]

dont see the point in moving it, OT is (at least, its how i percieve it) almost a retirement lounge for ex-DAoC players who, while they have little interest in the game anymore, still cling on to a nostalgic feeling of the community that we experienced in the game, combine that with other common interests, and some interesting characters and topics, that may not have the same acceptance elsewhere!

 

[Jimmy]

move it to the front page

 

[Will]

The sub-forum of General option is a bit backwards in my head, since it would be far busier than General is. Move it to the front is the better option imo.

 

[tierk]

Like just how it is now.

For the peeps that feel i have been a bit harsh in my posts on the other thread about people wanting to move, do not take it to heart as it is not intended to offend.

I just feel that we are being railroaded into a move.

Once again people posting about fear of change and so on. Rubbish as is the claims that we will attract new members by being on the front page or moved /merged whatever.

If that was the case then the General section would be brimming over with new people, which clearly it is not. People asked for reasons for not moving and on receiving it have just dismissed it as either irrelevant or ignorance of what the question is.

I will outline what i have seen /heard from the people against the move in brief.

1. OT is mostly x /current DAOC players, who also post in other sections and want to keep it that way - local pub for local people

2. An element of dislike of the attitude /posting style of other sections

3. We are in a fairly healthy state so why do we need to move?

If those reasons are not good enough for you, i am sure others can add further to that list.

*****EDIT*****

As always i am more than happy to go along with whatever the majority of OT peeps are happy to go along with. Let me also qualify that i would not like to see people who do not consider OT there home to ahve a vote on the matter

 

[Raven]

How about moving general to OT?

 

[Krazeh]

Once again people posting about fear of change and so on. Rubbish as is the claims that we will attract new members by being on the front page or moved /merged whatever.

If that was the case then the General section would be brimming over with new people, which clearly it is not.

How do you figure that? I don't think anyone has claimed that being on the front page magically makes something capable of attracting new members; what they have said is that the activity of OT makes it capable of attracting new members but it doesn't do so because it's hidden away under several sub-forums.

1. OT is mostly x /current DAOC players, who also post in other sections and want to keep it that way - local pub for local people

How does it being accessed by a different link change that?

2. An element of dislike of the attitude /posting style of other sections

How does it being accessed by a different link mean that hte attitude/posting style of OT would need to change? And for that matter how exactly is the attitude/posting style really that different?

3. We are in a fairly healthy state so why do we need to move?

Because some people care about the health of the whole forum/site as opposed to one subforum? For all your worries about the "integrity" of OT have you considered what would happen if the rest of FH died a death? What real reason would there be for Deebs to continue paying money and taking the time to maintain FH just so a clique of OT'ers had someone to post?

As it is none of your reasons are anything other than "I don't want to change" and don't raise any issues of real substance. If OT were to move it would still be OT, the only difference would be it would be visible from teh front page rather than needing people to delve through a couple of subforums first.

 

[tierk]

How do you figure that? I don't think anyone has claimed that being on the front page magically makes something capable of attracting new members; what they have said is that the activity of OT makes it capable of attracting new members but it doesn't do so because it's hidden away under several sub-forums.



How does it being accessed by a different link change that?



How does it being accessed by a different link mean that hte attitude/posting style of OT would need to change? And for that matter how exactly is the attitude/posting style really that different?



Because some people care about the health of the whole forum/site as opposed to one subforum? For all your worries about the "integrity" of OT have you considered what would happen if the rest of FH died a death? What real reason would there be for Deebs to continue paying money and taking the time to maintain FH just so a clique of OT'ers had someone to post?

As it is none of your reasons are anything other than "I don't want to change" and don't raise any issues of real substance. If OT were to move it would still be OT, the only difference would be it would be visible from teh front page rather than needing people to delve through a couple of subforums first.

1. It has already been implied several times by certain people.

2. Clearly it will not be in the DAOC section anymore ergo....

3. Sorry but its a fact.

4. I am pretty sure Deebs would be more than capable enough to make a change /choice decision for himself, if it needs it and doesnt need the Crusade some of you are on.

5. My reasons and pretty much every other person opposed to the move, in yours & couple of others eyes, have no real substance and funnily enough i think exactly the same about what you so called reasons are.

Being on the front page isn't going to do jack shit for numbers as General has proven.

 

[Raven]

The thing is that I am not so sure half the spam that is posted in OT would be accepted in general which could alienate some of those posters, I post in both so it doesn't really bother me all that much and I can certainly see the point to it.

A question though, who would moderate if it was merged? I am not sure OT'ers would appreciate suddenly getting moderated by people who have no idea about the community (where sometimes the line is slightly crossed) TDC does a pretty good job of it lately but some of the other mods don't even read OT, let alone post in it and I can see some peoples noses being put out of joint with heavy handed moderation.

It would be nice if we could merge and all get along and I don't really see the point in simply moving it for the sake of moving it.

I have voted no in the other threads but on reflection I don't actually care and I can see both points of view.

 

[Krazeh]

1. It has already been implied several times by certain people.

Do you think anyone would be suggesting moving OT if it was barely used with maybe a handful of threads/posts created each week? Anyone who's mentioned moving it to the front page as a way to possibly entice new members has done so based on the level of activity in OT and how that would be much better shown on the front page rather than hidden away.

2. Clearly it will not be in the DAOC section anymore ergo....

And how will that cause anything to change other than perhaps new people will contribute?

3. Sorry but its a fact.

And you have the evidence to back up this 'fact'? Also you've not answered the second part, i.e. how exactly is that attitude/posting style really that different from other areas?

4. I am pretty sure Deebs would be more than capable enough to make a change /choice decision for himself, if it needs it and doesnt need the Crusade some of you are on.

I am sure he can make a change/decison. I haven't implied otherwise. The point of my statement was to address the ridiculousness of the argument you raised, i.e. that OT is healthy so should be left alone, completely ignoring that the rest of the forum (which is the reason for OT even existing) appears to be slowing dying.

5. My reasons and pretty much every other person opposed to the move, in yours & couple of others eyes, have no real substance and funnily enough i think exactly the same about what you so called reasons are.

The difference is your reasons really don't have any substance other than "I don't want change". At least the reasons for making the move to the front page do have a basis for them.

Being on the front page isn't going to do jack shit for numbers as General has proven.

How has General proven anything about what having OT on the front page would do for numbers?

The thing is that I am not so sure half the spam that is posted in OT would be accepted in general which could alienate some of those posters, I post in both so it doesn't really bother me all that much and I can certainly see the point to it.

A question though, who would moderate if it was merged? I am not sure OT'ers would appreciate suddenly getting moderated by people who have no idea about the community (where sometimes the line is slightly crossed) TDC does a pretty good job of it lately but some of the other mods don't even read OT, let alone post in it and I can see some peoples noses being put out of joint with heavy handed moderation.

It would be nice if we could merge and all get along and I don't really see the point in simply moving it for the sake of moving it.

I have voted no in the other threads but on reflection I don't actually care and I can see both points of view.

Which is why the suggestion of simplying moving OT to the front page and leaving both General and OT as separate forums has been put forward. It solves the problems of having to adjust OT to fit with General and vice versa and means that people who aren't interested in the other can still happily ignore it, while at the same time presenting a far more active community to new visitors.

 

[cHodAX]

How do you figure that? I don't think anyone has claimed that being on the front page magically makes something capable of attracting new members; what they have said is that the activity of OT makes it capable of attracting new members but it doesn't do so because it's hidden away under several sub-forums.



How does it being accessed by a different link change that?



How does it being accessed by a different link mean that hte attitude/posting style of OT would need to change? And for that matter how exactly is the attitude/posting style really that different?



Because some people care about the health of the whole forum/site as opposed to one subforum? For all your worries about the "integrity" of OT have you considered what would happen if the rest of FH died a death? What real reason would there be for Deebs to continue paying money and taking the time to maintain FH just so a clique of OT'ers had someone to post?

As it is none of your reasons are anything other than "I don't want to change" and don't raise any issues of real substance. If OT were to move it would still be OT, the only difference would be it would be visible from teh front page rather than needing people to delve through a couple of subforums first.

Finally, someone COMPLETELY gets it.

 

[ECA]

Krazeh - you're missing the fact that most of them didn't even read any of the OPs and are just like WONT SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!!!!

 

[Dukat]

NEW SHINY OFF TOPIC SECTION ON FRONT AND KEEP OLD DAOC:OT SECTION AS IT IS.

(This all-in-caps announcement brought to you by ShoutyNews™, a supbranch of ShoutyMediaProductions inc)

 

[cHodAX]

NEW SHINY OFF TOPIC SECTION ON FRONT AND KEEP OLD DAOC:OT SECTION AS IT IS.

(This all-in-caps announcement brought to you by ShoutyNews™, a supbranch of ShoutyMediaProductions inc)

Are you prepared for at least 12 regulars to leave the old OT though whilst maybe a dozen of you stay behind? If that happens the community is even further split.

 

[Krazeh]

Are you prepared for at least 12 regulars to leave the old OT though whilst maybe a dozen of you stay behind? If that happens the community is even further split.

It also means that you just end up with a new forum on the front page with a 0 thread/post count which doesn't demonstrate nearly the same of activity as a forum with 20,000 threads and over 400,000 posts and kinda defeats half the reason for the proposed move.

 

[Deebs]

Just for clarity, the link would NOT change.

 

[tierk]

Just checked the poll and i see that Deebs is voting with the idea of a move.

For me that is enough discussion.

Go Ahead.

 

[Deebs]

Just checked the poll and i see that Deebs is voting with the idea of a move.

For me that is enough discussion.

Go Ahead.

Doesn't automatically mean it will happen, the community should and does have a say in things here. Before anything happens I want to understand the general feeling.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I just feel that we are being railroaded into a move.

As always i am more than happy to go along with whatever the majority of OT peeps are happy to go along with. Let me also qualify that i would not like to see people who do not consider OT there home to ahve a vote on the matter

Did you feel railroaded when your forums were kindly taken on here?

Why do only people in OT get a valid say according to you - this affects all users of the boards, not just you.

The thing is that I am not so sure half the spam that is posted in OT would be accepted in general which could alienate some of those posters, I post in both so it doesn't really bother me all that much and I can certainly see the point to it.

A question though, who would moderate if it was merged? I am not sure OT'ers would appreciate suddenly getting moderated by people who have no idea about the community (where sometimes the line is slightly crossed) TDC does a pretty good job of it lately but some of the other mods don't even read OT, let alone post in it and I can see some peoples noses being put out of joint with heavy handed moderation.

FFS, HOW MANY FUCKING TIMES DO WE NEED TO SAY THIS:

1. THERE IS NO MODERATION. I have never seen anyone banned, censored or ANYTHING since the BW days. So you're talking shit.
2. General has always been filled with spam, just less of it these days because of the user count. Back in BW/early FH days there are countless threads of nonsense. Go check the BW forums if you don't believe me.

Finally, someone COMPLETELY gets it.

It's a shame the majority of OTers don't seem to be able to see that any changes wouldn't cause any of the disruption they think it would.

 

[cHodAX]

Doesn't automatically mean it will happen, the community should and does have a say in things here. Before anything happens I want to understand the general feeling.

There is a very vocal minority opposed but I do feel some of the no voters could be appeased with assurances that the moderating or tone of Off Topic would not be changing. That seems to be a real fear for a few even though it has no sound basis.

I know a good few OT members are annoyed at me for fueling this debate but in all honesty it was a discussion that needed to happen, even if the move doesn't happen this time the arguement for change doesn't go away because it makes alot of sense.

Anyway, I will shut up now, have more than said my peice but I hope the no voters have a real good think about the future if changes aren't made.

 

[Deebs]

There is a very vocal minority opposed but I do feel some of the no voters could be appeased with assurances that the moderating or tone of Off Topic would not be changing. That seems to be a real fear for a few even though it has no sound basis.

I know a good few OT members are annoyed at me for fueling this debate but in all honesty it was a discussion that needed to happen, even if the move doesn't happen this time the arguement for change doesn't go away because it makes alot of sense.

Anyway, I will shut up now, have more than said my peice but I hope the no voters have a real good think about the future if changes aren't made.

The moderation should not change as far as I am concerned, if it happens the forum would still be called Off-Topic and live on the main index page.

Having said that the only change I might apply is to tweak the description slightly.

 

[Billargh]

It's just a forum, jesus christ.

 

[Raven]

1. THERE IS NO MODERATION. I have never seen anyone banned, censored or ANYTHING since the BW days. So you're talking shit.

I have seen plenty...and even more suspensions/thread locks/post deletions etc etc by mods who don't even read DAOC OT let alone contribute to it. You do realise mods do more than just ban people...right?

Now calm down little man.

The moderation should not change as far as I am concerned.

That's fine. TDC has been doing a top job lately.

 

[xomer]

It's just a forum, jesus christ.

+1.

ok we can live even if OT will move or stay as it is, lol.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

I have seen plenty...and even more suspensions/thread locks/post deletions etc etc by mods who don't even read DAOC OT let alone contribute to it. You do realise mods do more than just ban people...right?

Now calm down little man.



That's fine. TDC has been doing a top job lately.

Point some out then. Prove it.

 

[Raven]

Why should I? Loads of people have been banned or suspended in OT over the years some rightly so, some not so. Dorimor for one is a perpetual banee, Gamah who used to post a few years back, and once I was suspended (maybe twice actually) I cba to list those that have has suspensions over the years, pretty much everyone at some point I would imagine. We used to have a big problem of some mods (not to name names) who would come in now and again swinging their willy about, deleting stuff, locking threads etc. Much better now though.

Due to me being able to sticky/unsticky threads in OT I can also view deleted posts (I have asked Jup a few times to remove this ability) there are plenty.

 

[Sparx]

Within the DAOC sections there was alot of modding going on. im not saying it wasnt needed, it def was especially in DAOC - General. OT got its identity cause the modding wasnt as harsh as it was in the rest of the DAOC forums.

You General lot wouldnt have seen it as it was mostly within the DAOC forums