Shadowblade Info

[Darksword]

if u mean is there fighting in housing, well no there isnt, there isnt in capitals eithar, all none fighting zones, but there is in aegir (AND HOW ) and camlan, domnann etc. would b nice if there was a few caves where it was restricted 2 xp only i suppose but then theres fun in having 2 watch ur back while xping

 

[Thugs]

SBs damage

All these theories about sbs damage and la etc. What i think people don't realize is the end game. By this i mean when you can get to your cap limit with regard to swing rate. An inf can get to this limit easier than an sb can infact owing to the damage that fast weapons can do in an inf's hands. So when you consider that an inf can swing both weaps at the cap of 1.5 secs (eventually) what then is the advantage of la? None at all. Tis a 40% (or more) nerf full stop. Why?

Suppose an inf and an sb were at level 50 and both capped quickness, were buffed and had an haste bot. Both used 2.6 speed weapons in both hands so that they hit the cap rate of 1.5 secs for weapon swing rate. As you can see la is now just a 40% nerf. The inf swings everytime and hits for 100% on both weapons. The sb on the other hand also swings at the same rate but his damage is reduced at least 40% owing to la. Very simple way to see the nerf.

To attempt to overcome the nerf sbs have to use the slower weapons which results in excessive end use so that also is a kick in the teeth.

For an sb to hit as he should do he needs to use 2 handed weapons, cap quickness, have a full aug buffbot and a high level haste bot along with full haste from TOA items to get his swing rate down close to cap limit; oh and a very fast 2 handed weapon. Yeah right.

MKJ

 

[Melachi]

All these theories about sbs damage and la etc. What i think people don't realize is the end game. By this i mean when you can get to your cap limit with regard to swing rate. An inf can get to this limit easier than an sb can infact owing to the damage that fast weapons can do in an inf's hands. So when you consider that an inf can swing both weaps at the cap of 1.5 secs (eventually) what then is the advantage of la? None at all. Tis a 40% (or more) nerf full stop. Why?

Suppose an inf and an sb were at level 50 and both capped quickness, were buffed and had an haste bot. Both used 2.6 speed weapons in both hands so that they hit the cap rate of 1.5 secs for weapon swing rate. As you can see la is now just a 40% nerf. The inf swings everytime and hits for 100% on both weapons. The sb on the other hand also swings at the same rate but his damage is reduced at least 40% owing to la. Very simple way to see the nerf.

To attempt to overcome the nerf sbs have to use the slower weapons which results in excessive end use so that also is a kick in the teeth.

For an sb to hit as he should do he needs to use 2 handed weapons, cap quickness, have a full aug buffbot and a high level haste bot along with full haste from TOA items to get his swing rate down close to cap limit; oh and a very fast 2 handed weapon. Yeah right.

MKJ

You misunderstand LA and/or DW&CD mechanics then.
Lets take your example and look at it a bit better, also lets assume both infil and SB have 44 in weap, and 44 in LA for arguements sake (lets not go into the 2.5spec points arguement). And are using equal weapons and equal buffs and stats. So have equal swingrates, which are capped.

You say the SB suffers a penalty, which is true, with a spec of 44 with no +'s he suffers a 77.46% penalty to both hands.

And then you say the Infil swings every time and hits for 100%. Wrong.
The Infil does hit for 100% but does not swing his offhand everytime. Infact with a spec of 44 with no +'s he has a off-hand swing chance of 54.92%.

Do the math it works out.

[Edit] Heres a guide for you if you can be arsed to read it, tis long, almost as long as my post http://daoc.nisrv.com/modules.php?name=Content&pa=showpage&pid=16

 

[Thugs]

Wrong?

Nope i think you are wrong. As soon as the cap rate is hit - 1.5 secs the theory goes out the window. Both weapons swing at 1.5 secs regardless of anything once that cap is hit. Therefore both weapons are swung by the inf each time. The cap makes a nonsense out of your theory. Think about it. Cap of 1.5 secs for each weapon. Why then should the offhand not swing? It will swing at it's cap limit of 1.5 secs.

You ever been in a fight where the inf was hitting for 1.5 sec cap rate and he was only hitting with his mainhand at times? Nope. Both weapons hit at their cap of 1.5 secs.

MKJ

 

[Gizor]

Melachi ever played shadowblade active

 

[Thugs]

Swing vs hit

Swing is not the same as connect though. That theory you are mentioning nodoubt looks at hit rate and misses. Hitting and missing with the offhand is another matter but swing rate would be at max of 1.5 secs.

Lets face it though an inf that has his swing rate up at 1.5 secs is hardly likely to have low weapon skill therefore he will connect a great deal with his offhand.

MKJ

 

[Yussef]

Nope i think you are wrong. As soon as the cap rate is hit - 1.5 secs the theory goes out the window. Both weapons swing at 1.5 secs regardless of anything once that cap is hit. Therefore both weapons are swung by the inf each time. The cap makes a nonsense out of your theory. Think about it. Cap of 1.5 secs for each weapon. Why then should the offhand not swing? It will swing at it's cap limit of 1.5 secs.

You ever been in a fight where the inf was hitting for 1.5 sec cap rate and he was only hitting with his mainhand at times? Nope. Both weapons hit at their cap of 1.5 secs.

MKJ

That's bullshit to be honest.

 

[Gizor]

That's bullshit to be honest.

Indeed ;<

Nice try though better luck next time, buddy(<-Thugs)

 

[Danya]

Nope i think you are wrong. As soon as the cap rate is hit - 1.5 secs the theory goes out the window. Both weapons swing at 1.5 secs regardless of anything once that cap is hit. Therefore both weapons are swung by the inf each time. The cap makes a nonsense out of your theory. Think about it. Cap of 1.5 secs for each weapon. Why then should the offhand not swing? It will swing at it's cap limit of 1.5 secs.

You ever been in a fight where the inf was hitting for 1.5 sec cap rate and he was only hitting with his mainhand at times? Nope. Both weapons hit at their cap of 1.5 secs.

LOL. Having played a merc with 6x effective DW, and capped speed (with haste) I can assure you you don't get even close to hitting every time. You're just talking bullshit.

 

[Melachi]

Nope i think you are wrong. As soon as the cap rate is hit - 1.5 secs the theory goes out the window. Both weapons swing at 1.5 secs regardless of anything once that cap is hit. Therefore both weapons are swung by the inf each time. The cap makes a nonsense out of your theory. Think about it. Cap of 1.5 secs for each weapon. Why then should the offhand not swing? It will swing at it's cap limit of 1.5 secs.

You ever been in a fight where the inf was hitting for 1.5 sec cap rate and he was only hitting with his mainhand at times? Nope. Both weapons hit at their cap of 1.5 secs.

MKJ

Wrong, swing speed has no affect at all on a DW/CD users chance to swing off-hand, its all based upon DW/CD skill + bonuses + Duelist Reflexes + Whirling Devrish.

Melachi ever played shadowblade active

Yes a rr5 one for a period of two months before ToA but after the LA nerf. Also on occasion play a rr6 SZ now.

Swing is not the same as connect though. That theory you are mentioning nodoubt looks at hit rate and misses. Hitting and missing with the offhand is another matter but swing rate would be at max of 1.5 secs.

Lets face it though an inf that has his swing rate up at 1.5 secs is hardly likely to have low weapon skill therefore he will connect a great deal with his offhand.

MKJ

Your confusing actually swinging and misses ect...
The infil doesnt allways even swing his offhand.
I think you think that this is what I mean about the infils chance of swinging his offhand

Your perform Garrote perfectly (+100)
You hit Wtfla with your sword for 300(-60)
You miss!

When what really happens when the infils offhand doesnt swing is.
Your perform Garrote perfectly (+100)
You hit Wtfla with your sword for 300(-60)

You see the infil has a chance of not swinging his offhand before any calculations for misses/parry/block/evade are calculated.

if you go to Camlann ill kick your ass

Hah
Tbh I want to roll a tank / stealther, and NF looks shite for thoses classes, and PvP definetly sounds more fun to me, quicker arti leveling, few buffbots, lots of solo'ers, no dead emain Prydwen style.

 

[Thugs]

Wrong?

Well sounds like i am. Having played an inf i was only aware of missing or not swinging both weapons when i actually specced in duel wield and used those styles.

Think that theory should be tested when the cap limit is reached though and the inf is slash/crit or thrust/crit incase it throws everything out.

MKJ
PS: you mention WTFLA? How come? One of mine that was!

 

[Thugs]

2 SBs

I have 2 sbs. One is full la and axe - 50 in both. Other is full crit and axe - again 50 in both. An experiment really to see the difference. What is really annoying though is that both are ruined because of la.

La one should open with double frost but end usage is real nasty and damage doesn't really justify it's use. His best bet is to use a 2 hander and havoc and tyr fury (i think it is) as a follow up. Daft cos then he would never be able to get the la stun off.

Crit one has 40% taken off main hand at least so hits for really low damage. He hits for more than the combined total of his 2 weapons should he use just one weapon and a shield, thereby negating the affects of la. Therefore he is forced to spec in la should he wish to use 2 weaps. Other than that he could spec as a 2 hander but would have a hell offa time getting his hit rate down to useable speed as there is a lack of fast 2 handed weapons.

Anyways enough moaning cos i ain't gonna take part in level 50 combat as it is just too nasty. Infact i got a prob to overcome if i gonna play the game again cos when i get pissed at it i destroy all my daoc cds and computer backups swearing i ain't never playing the ****ing game again. Normally after i calm down i can find a cd with Shrouded Isles on it somewhere and can reinstall. After this last blow up though seems i have been too thorough and i can't find any backups . One thing i am is passionate for sure. Tis the Welsh in me i suppose . Oh well nodoubt i can think of a way to acquire the game from somewheres again. Though i ain't playing RVR as i thought it was just plain orrible. Will be going back to Thid or trying Camlann i think.

MKJ

 

[Melachi]

PS: you mention WTFLA? How come? One of mine that was!

Hehe cause I remeber you from bg

La one should open with double frost but end usage is real nasty and damage doesn't really justify it's use.

And gah im annoyed with myself that I didnt test this last time I had the chance, but the time before that in 1.67 I tested it to see if it really did use more end and I found that it used the exact same end as any other "High" end using style. Will someone test it if they get the chance, should be easy with ToA skins now that they actually give you a % too.

Also, DF growth rate is .75 which is "Average" to "Above Average" in terms of anytimers.

 

[Thugs]

End usage of double frost

Well i think the end usage is on par with garote really but the problem with it is that you have lost the advantage of the main crit attack so you are attacking your target who is at full health. So you have to swing away longer to down your target. Also there is no 2nd low end follow up to double frost so you have to use just that over and over. You won't get many swings before you are out of end for sure.

MKJ

 

[Gizor]

Well i think the end usage is on par with garote really but the problem with it is that you have lost the advantage of the main crit attack so you are attacking your target who is at full health. So you have to swing away longer to down your target. Also there is no 2nd low end follow up to double frost so you have to use just that over and over. You won't get many swings before you are out of end for sure.

MKJ

+ Fatigue and end pots.

 

[Lothar]

Now can someone make a post like this about hunters
If there really is anything left to be good at

 

[Blackdeath]

no serious i will kick your ass if you go to PvP
you crazy dutch bastard!

 

[Damon_D]

Not to repeat myself...
But Melachi still you just totaly ignore that SB's do not have any choise but to spec LA high if they want to dual wield , Infil's and Nightshades does.
SB's being forced to neglect an entire spec line, the class defining one on top of that, to do comparable melee dmg make's LA a shit dual wield system not the best

 

[Melachi]

Not to repeat myself...
But Melachi still you just totaly ignore that SB's do not have any choise but to spec LA high if they want to dual wield , Infil's and Nightshades does.
SB's being forced to neglect an entire spec line, the class defining one on top of that, to do comparable melee dmg make's LA a shit dual wield system not the best

Your right I didnt really go into detail about the LA off-hand weaponskill being calculated from LA skill problem. However I do think its a problem and I have made a big post a while ago on it on VNboards, asking if the TL would change the check to be main-hand. The thing is that this is the only reason SB's _have_ to spec LA high, if this was fixed a spec of 1 in LA would still be fine to dual wield with, and I still standby despite this bug (Mythic "feature") I still beleive LA is the better system, reasons are Consisten Haste Effect, Damage Add Bonus, and last but by no means least, Growth rates, yes LA has some lovely ones, some horrible ones too.

Here they are, (note I left out AB, because it was changed for Zerkers and im unsure wether they changed the growthrate, also im not 100% if these are still accurate though I believe they are, need to test.)

Counterslash          0.05
Doubler          0.60
Ravager          0.35
Polar Light          0.90
Snowblind          0.60
Atrophy          0.65
Frost Shadow          0.95
Comeback          0.90
Scathing Blade          1.00
Decaying Rage          0.95
Snowsquall          0.95
Doublefrost          0.75
Frosty Gaze          1.00
Icy Brilliance          1.10

 

[bertol]

Is DEX important for a SB?

i have wanted to rescue this big thread to ask something more....

How does DEX affect in a SB? evade rating is afected by QUI, but no DEX?....

So QUI cap (with Buff etc) would be 250, right? and same in DEX?

and SB weapons are Slash (i presume axe/sword are slash, right?), so damage is afected by only STR?

thats all folks

 

[xenia-]

my sb has 25 strcap, 10% meleespeed, one artifact, (traitors dagger) and use cold/heat lws main - specced 37 sword, 50 la 35 stealth 35 env 10 cs at rr5 (35 oldsk00l points). DF cap is ~330 (96% lw, 4spd) snowsquall abit higher, ws just below 1500. I have never done better than with this spec (using LA styles exclusively, new tireless makes it viable imo)

feel free to pm me in game for a duel

edit: I have had 6 or 7 different specs

 

[Kedoz]

To awsner ur questions:

Yes ur dmg depends only on ur str, stats wise. Yes the Qui cap is 250, dex hard cap is 450, same with other except for Qui.

Dex only helps you evade, evade calc is : (dex + qui)\2, [(dex\2) + (qui\2) is excatly the same]

SO to sum it up, str is the only stat that affects ur dmg output, dex and quickness affect ur evade, and quickness affects ur swingspeed.

 

[bertol]

ty for your answers m8ys

 

[Dracus]

The latest scoop on VN is that ur weap(axe/sword) doesnt have to exceed 51 combined...u get Very little to no gain from it...so u can go with either 50'ish(modified)LA and high CS or vice versa...the guy who made a lotta the weapon info, Wyrd, seems to think high CS is better cause the styles have better growth rate...but im not 100% sure theyre better than LA styles. That goes to be shown. On my NS on the other hand..it r0x! gonna respec SB aswell...to 51 (modified) sword and high LA, 34 CS and the rest where it fits hope its gonna work

/Dracus

 

[Cylian]

The latest scoop on VN is that ur weap(axe/sword) doesnt have to exceed 51 combined...u get Very little to no gain from it...so u can go with either 50'ish(modified)LA and high CS or vice versa...the guy who made a lotta the weapon info, Wyrd, seems to think high CS is better cause the styles have better growth rate...but im not 100% sure theyre better than LA styles. That goes to be shown. On my NS on the other hand..it r0x! gonna respec SB aswell...to 51 (modified) sword and high LA, 34 CS and the rest where it fits hope its gonna work

/Dracus

trying that 'Wyrd'-idea atm, can't say I'm impressed by the results.
Anyone got a cheap Full Skill Respec Stone ?

 

[Marath]

Used to be 34sword gimp almost all through rr7. Even referred to myself as gimp because of that in here and irc. Went to 39sword just before to test as we got a free respec now. And my performance dropped. Seems my gimpness had nothing to do with spec. Now Im happily back at:

33sword
39laxe
41cs
32eno/st
+18 to all.

VN-thread from all the whine about how to spec your sb here:
http://vnboards.ign.com/Midgard_Rogue_Professions/b20912/78799461/?467
If you never read anything else there read this. 467 replies at the time of this post.

Basicly what it says it with base 50weapon specs are shooting themselfs to the foot. Cba to type all that info here... just follow the link, make some nice koffee and read it all the way through.

 

[Cylian]

nm my last post

 

[Dracus]

I think it works well on both my NS and SB hard to tell on SB atm..still missin xp on all artis >_< (som, gsv, ms, malice and battler...zzzzz) but I did kill bigchief in a 1v1 yesterday (sry..had to brag about that ) A concern tho, is that my NS is outdmging my SB kinda badly..and he swings very close to cap...my SB doesnt

/Dracus

 

[Animus]

Level your artis and you might notice a change

 

[Cylian]

everything else being equal, a SB is -always- behind.

advantages a SB had over the past years were

high style damage -> nerfed
natural haste -> indirectly nerfed, since everyone can get haste now (pots/charges/bot)
armor being resistant to the Str/Dex weapons -> nerfed ... (elemental weapons)

due to reactives, swinging both weapons all the time is more a hinderance than a benefit. You just trigger more reactives, while the proc rate of your own weapons isn't any greater than for people that swing just one weapon.

and if you try to fill the gap with charges/pots (haste/AF) you'll still be a buff short, or an account ahead of your counterparts.