Scum

[Tom]

Whats your solution nath? Force feed them The Guardian?

 

[Tom]

Actually, I don't care what your solution is Nath, you seem hell-bent on calling me names whatever I post.

So fuckoff.

 

[noblok]

I'm making no comments about this particular incident but the law, justice and punishment should not be made up based on emotional responses. It's just not as simple as that.

Playing devil's advocate for a bit: on what should it be based if not on our direct responses?

It's an honest question. My intuition agrees with you, but I'm having a hard time coming up with decent arguments for it.

Edit: Similar incidents have been happening in Germany and Belgium as well. Is this sort of extreme violence a new trend or is it just getting more icoverage?

 

[nath]

Actually, I don't care what your solution is Nath, you seem hell-bent on calling me names whatever I post.

You posted a video of someone being brutally murdered - you're a little way off the moral high ground.




noblok - I've been thinking about that myself. In short, I'm not sure - again I want to distance what I'm saying here from the events we've all been unfortunately exposed to but I just know that if someone were to do something to my family, I'd want to do all sorts of violent and unforgiveable things. I don't think that it'd necessarily be justified but I'd want to do it anyway. The law is not there to get revenge for people, it's there to dole out adequate justice. I think damini is probably right - it's not doling out adequate justice at the moment but that doesn't mean we should visit the opposite end of the spectrum.

 

[Mey]

Justice should be based on just that, Justice. Actions require justified and proportional punishments.

For Example, Life should mean life, not 18 (approx.) years. Something needs to change, and it has to start with us.

 

[Garaen]

I'm thankful for seeing that video, it has really triggered something inside of me. I watched it the first time not realising the guy had a knife and dismissed it as a normal yet uneven fight. Only after seeing the link stating the guy died did it really hit me. I really can't put something in to words right now, i just think it's disgusting a human being could do that. It really sickens me. There is proof that the person with the knife 100% killed the other person, he should imo either face the same treatment (death) or be locked up for life (the rest of his life, not xx amount of years).

 

[throdgrain]

Appalling little wankers. And they will probably cry themselves to sleep in prison for the next 15 years.

15 years, what am I saying? They'll get 15 years, and do , what ,8? NOT ENOUGH. If not the death penalty then at least the fact that life should mean life. Prisons are full? Build more fucking prisons.
And people should have the right to defend themselves too. I wont jump on that hobby horse though, I dont want to bore you all

Tom, to be honest I think Nath was more attacking the sensationalised way the Sun report such crimes, than he was anything else.
on the other hand, I can understand also why you didnt see that. Nath , you do come over as a right bloody student sometimes , even though you probably dont mean too.

 

[leggy]

I won't give my opinions on the actual crime. I don't want to.

I will, however, defend Tom here.

He doesn't have to give a warning. I'm glad he posted this and I'm glad it shocked you all. This was shown completely uncut on the BBC news two nights ago. They didn't give me any fucking warning.

People need to see this. They need to see the horrible bastards that exist in this world and they need to see exactly what they should be prepared to defend themselves against.

This is real life. If you don't like it, then tough shit.

 

[nath]

Nath , you do come over as a right bloody student sometimes , even though you probably dont mean too.

Just as you come across as a right bloody farmer - but I guess that's neither here nor there.



I feel like including a smiley to suggest that the above post has no malice, as it doesn't, but this thread doesn't seem the place for jolliness :\




edit: generally I agree with you on most things leggy, but on this I do have to say bollocks. If the BBC gave no warning about this vid, then they should have. It doesn't make Tom justified in doing it.

 

[Wij]

It's being shown everywhere. Getting worked up about the way The Sun reports it (though not the beeb) seems a bit wanky when A GUY FUCKING DIED. Doesn't that register a response ?




btw - my mum's best friend's son (was like a cousin to me) was stabbed to death.

 

[nath]

Of course it registers a fucking response - but I had nothing to say about it so I didn't. I did have something to say about how the sun reported it, so I did. At the time, I hadn't seen the bbc reporting it so I didn't make any comments on them.

 

[noblok]

The law is not there to get revenge for people, it's there to dole out adequate justice. I think damini is probably right - it's not doling out adequate justice at the moment but that doesn't mean we should visit the opposite end of the spectrum.

You'd be surprised. If I'm not mistaken the Belgian law includes 'retribution' as an element of punishment (as well as deterring, safeguarding society and 'correction', if I remember correctly).

Thing is: if it isn't based on emotions (or reactive attitudes), then I suppose it should be based on rational principles. I have tried to lay a rational foundation for a morale, but I've not yet succeeded. Just try to find a rational principle to condemn this action as wrong. I'll be relieved if you manage to find one .

I guess you could say that the reason to condemn an act doesn't have to be rational, but the punishment should be. That doesn't make sense though. If there's no rational reason to condemn something, then certainly there's no rational punishment either (as that should be aimed at positive consequences, but you can't rationally decide what a positive consequence is).

 

[throdgrain]

Just as you come across as a right bloody farmer - but I guess that's neither here nor there.



I feel like including a smiley to suggest that the above post has no malice, as it doesn't, but this thread doesn't seem the place for jolliness :\

Its ok, I can read a smily even if there isnt one sometimes

The saddest thing for me is that these wankers probably arnt truly evil bastards either, for all they might like to think they are (they're probably not thinking like that now, they're probably crying to god to get them out of this mess ) , look at the punches they threw, just silly tossers just out of school. Not exactly Dave Courtney are they? Just little wankers picking on someone else because they thought they could get away with it.

 

[leggy]

I wasn't attacking you nath like some of the posters were. I was only posting my thoughts. I agree that there should have been a warning. But do you really think it would have made a difference? If someone warns me about something it only provokes my curiosity.

 

[Furr]

BBC did report is iirc, to be honest the problem is that the system is too soft, the police are crap and bound up but stupid rules and the liberal fannies have introduced a system thats just not harsh enough.

2 months ago I was in a night club in london, celebrating a mates 21st, a group of "lads" decided that night they were going to be violent out of nowhere started a fight on some people in our party "for bumping into them". Now the place had crap CCTV and the bouncers weren't to spot on. I tried to break it up and guess what.

I got bottled for my troubles. now plenty of witnesses. However because the person who bottle me cut his hand and his mates tried saying I did it the police didn't arrest him. Instead me and another innocent bystander an 18 year old girl goto hospital i get 14 stiches in my head she needs a cut in her scalp glued, the assailant goes to another hospital to get his hand treated.

Guess what i hear from the police the next day. We didn't arrest him as he needed to goto hospital because that he had two friends counter claiming what we said. The police said that the only way to get this done would be that we both get arrested and charged with affray and then after than I can take him to court for wounding on my own expense.

So because there was no CCTV and the bouncers didn't see the actual incident I was given the option of getting a criminal record for something i didn't do even though it was obvious that he hit me with a bottle. luckily its healed well and i can live with it (loads of scars on my head from rugby, bike crashes etc anyway) however the "common sense" has been removed from policing, teaching pretty much anything. everything has targets and badly though out procedures.

I have no faith in the crimal justice system or the police in this country. With all my encouters with them they seem to be bound to treat the victim as the criminal. I don't trust them either, and will not untill i acutally see them doing their job to treat the criminal as a criminal in the harshest manner.

 

[leggy]

these wankers probably arnt truly evil bastards either, for all they might like to think they are

I wish I could believe this.

Sticking a knife into someone speaks volumes. You want to do them serious harm. Death or not.

Good\Evil aside. I really would like to see them suffer badly for what they did.

 

[Will]

I'm not going to comment, but I think more warning was required on the first post.

 

[nath]

I wasn't attacking you nath like some of the posters were. I was only posting my thoughts. I agree that there should have been a warning. But do you really think it would have made a difference? If someone warns me about something it only provokes my curiosity.

You're probably right, but if it Tom said "warning - a video of a chap getting stabbed" I'd not click it.

 

[leggy]

I'm not going to comment, but I think more warning was required on the first post.

The dead boy should have had more warning too.

He didn't get it.

He's dead.

/edit

The worst thing that has happened here is that we are slightly shocked. I'll taked shocked over my funeral any day of the week.

 

[throdgrain]

I wish I could believe this.

Sticking a knife into someone speaks volumes. You want to do them serious harm. Death or not.

Good\Evil aside. I really would like to see them suffer badly for what they did.

No , dont misunderstand, i also want them to suffer for thier crime. If I had my way the courts would at least have the option of the death penalty.

You're probably right, but if it Tom said "warning - a video of a chap getting stabbed" I'd not click it.

I think you owe Tom an apology to be honest mate.

 

[nath]

I think you owe Tom an apology to be honest mate.

I don't, surprisingly enough.

 

[leggy]

Someone needs a hug.

 

[Furr]

The reason that we all are rather shocked at this video is because it could easily have been any one of us...

Its definitly made me think about it...

 

[mank!]

nath if you're ever in oxford i'll buy you a pint.

in the meantime, i'll pm you the passwor dto my account and you can post on my behalf as you pretty much always sum up exactly my thoughts on stuff.

that video was shocking but it reminds me of a quote from hotel rwanda.

Jack: [after Paul thanks him for shooting footage of the genocide] I think if people see this footage, they'll say Oh, my God, that's horrible. And then they'll go on eating their dinners

 

[tris-]

im not sure of why people are shocked to watch this.
maybe this its just me, but nothing shocks me anymore. i started looking at things like 'rotten' etc when i was 12, now im nearly 20.

its real life. it happens, it happend outside my uni too but im not going to lock my self in the house and tell everyone how shocked i am.

so soz, but i cant understand why it shocks you :/

my view on this is the people are scum bags and should be imprisoned for life. none of this fancy "you can watch tv and go play with your pals" shit either. i mean proper imprisonment. where all they get is the vital ingredients to make sure their mysery lasts as long as possible.

 

[mank!]

i found it shocking because i've never seen someone get stabbed before, at least not in films/television.

why is this so different to all of the other stabbings that happen? why do these three men deserve to be strung up in particular?

just 'cos you've seen cctv footage of it happening.

that is sensationalism and propaganda.

 

[throdgrain]

lol propaganda. Go on mate. Why is it propaganda then. Do explain.

 

[tris-]

no mank, not just these. everyone who murders someone like that.

murdering in self defence is another story imo.

 

[mank!]

your view of it is biased due to the way in which the information is presented to you. the shock tactics of the video is designed to heighten the emotion you feel which is compounded by the use of emotive language in the article - i.e. "three evil thugs", "The sick trio" - so the reporting isn't objective, which is supposedly how journalism should be.

if that makes sense. i've drank a considerable amount of ale, so it might be somewhat of a nonsensical ramble...

i just think that if this was reported in the times it would go as unnoticed as any of the other stabbings recently, the qpr youth player in london, the lad in northern ireland, the boy outside a school last week - but the sun have picked up footage of this and are using it to their advantage, which i think is pretty wrong.

 

[throdgrain]

Murder in self defence isnt murder though is it.