Scale DI with group size

[liloe]

Well I see the point of some people here Illu, but the argument is going very black & white atm. Make it cool for soloers and make it cool for 8v8 people. That's 2 playstyles out of many and as I said, what if I tag along a zerg with 3-4 people? What would be the reason to have a nerfed DI there? Cause after all it's just bad luck that we're less people in a zerg. Might aswell be the other way round that we're in a fg and some other people are only 3-4. There is no justification for less healing there, cause why should one player of 40 have a 3k DI in his back and the other one only 1k? After all both Clerics payed their 30pts for this.

Other situation. I'm duo with a mate and we get attacked by some people and more adds come. DI helps me to swallow some dmg on the sorc so that I can get a good position and he can CC people. Is it so overpowered when we're 2v6? Or is it just so overpowered when it's 2v1?

I don't think I'm telling you news when I say that sorces have more ways than just DI to stay alive, especially when running with a bot.

I rather think the problem is the crap population, which means that the few remaining players will look for fixed points where the action is going and the DI botters know that well, going to the same spot to farm.

 

[Gahn]

And now the 1st part of my post does become relevant.........

He does have a point and u know it tho ^^

 

[Cromcruaich]

He does have a point and u know it tho ^^

In fairness, he did give me a rep for it. So :worthy: @ castus.

 

[Gahn]

Well I see the point of some people here Illu, but the argument is going very black & white atm. Make it cool for soloers and make it cool for 8v8 people. That's 2 playstyles out of many and as I said, what if I tag along a zerg with 3-4 people? What would be the reason to have a nerfed DI there? Cause after all it's just bad luck that we're less people in a zerg. Might aswell be the other way round that we're in a fg and some other people are only 3-4. There is no justification for less healing there, cause why should one player of 40 have a 3k DI in his back and the other one only 1k? After all both Clerics payed their 30pts for this.

Other situation. I'm duo with a mate and we get attacked by some people and more adds come. DI helps me to swallow some dmg on the sorc so that I can get a good position and he can CC people. Is it so overpowered when we're 2v6? Or is it just so overpowered when it's 2v1?

I don't think I'm telling you news when I say that sorces have more ways than just DI to stay alive, especially when running with a bot.

I rather think the problem is the crap population, which means that the few remaining players will look for fixed points where the action is going and the DI botters know that well, going to the same spot to farm.

On the other hand tho having the same healing pool avail be it 2 or 8 ppl is statistically unfair also ain't it?
And, unless strange odds, 8 vs 4 has no history DI or not -.-

 

[Gahn]

In fairness, he did give me a rep for it. So :worthy: @ castus.

He gotta have some grudge against me then xD

 

[charmangle]

In a lot of scenarios most of the hp pool in the DI would go to one group member(an assist train etc), it allows the target of all this damage to be able to get away from the damage before dieing. Unless in a siege/short range situation where aoe damage/pbae damage would be used. So 4xx hp/group member would be a severe nerf to DI.

As I said a missunderstanding, I didnt mean 420 hp pool to be used for each member of the group, I meant that the DI pool grows with 420 for each member joining the group on DI3...

Meaning that at 2 members in a group the DI3 would give 420 hps healed, another person joins, the pool will grow to 840, a third joins so then the DI pool goes up to 1260 and so on...till you are fg then the DI pool will be about 3000 as it is supposed to be...

That will make it work as it does today, but it is not horribly overpowered in a duo or a char with bot. Atm the DI is created to work well in fgs, but it is very much used to make a rediculous hp pool for small groups.

/Charmangle

 

[liloe]

On the other hand tho having the same healing pool avail be it 2 or 8 ppl is statistically unfair also ain't it?
And, unless strange odds, 8 vs 4 has no history DI or not -.-

You never met the President stealthzerg on Avalon then =) It's a ~RR8-11 stealthzerg and thanks to lovely DI you can manage to kick some ass before you die =)

And no, statistically it't not unfair to have the same healing pool available, cause then you'd have to make every value in the game dependant of the situation. Remember the general rule of super-heroes? =) The more enemies, the worse they hit and the less damage they deal =) On the other hand that means that a soloer should be able to 1-shot everybody in a zerg =))

Well seriously now, I don't think numbers should be taken into account, cause then you'd have to re-evaluate lots of other things aswell. In the same way the instant heals are unfair, cause they can heal up a player in a group to nearly full again, no matter how much are in it =)

 

[thergador]

ok no one esle has bought it up but if you nerf DI the caster life saver then you would need to nerf IP3 the tank life saver surely ? good tank has about 2500hp+ so IP3 has the same effect for a solo tank as DI3 almost (plus the tank vs the duo tank bot combo the tank get twice as many rps)

imo leave DI as it is or nerf/remove both
then you have to look at JS heal HE heal and as mentioned before insta heals

 

[Gahn]

You never met the President stealthzerg on Avalon then =) It's a ~RR8-11 stealthzerg and thanks to lovely DI you can manage to kick some ass before you die =)

And no, statistically it't not unfair to have the same healing pool available, cause then you'd have to make every value in the game dependant of the situation. Remember the general rule of super-heroes? =) The more enemies, the worse they hit and the less damage they deal =) On the other hand that means that a soloer should be able to 1-shot everybody in a zerg =))

Well seriously now, I don't think numbers should be taken into account, cause then you'd have to re-evaluate lots of other things aswell. In the same way the instant heals are unfair, cause they can heal up a player in a group to nearly full again, no matter how much are in it =)

Well difference it's that this is passive -.-
And yes i encountered already the mighty Avalon stealthzergs, but they are crappier than the Uk cluster ones, so nothing to bother really ^^

 

[Gahn]

ok no one esle has bought it up but if you nerf DI the caster life saver then you would need to nerf IP3 the tank life saver surely ? good tank has about 2500hp+ so IP3 has the same effect for a solo tank as DI3 almost

imo leave DI as it is or nerf/remove both

Can't really put em on same level do u? 900 sec rut 80% of hps against 600 rut flat 3000 hps?

3000 Hps tank IPs3 = 5400 hps
1600 Hps Caster DI3 = 4600 hps

Pretty much throws out of the window all the shit about casters must do more dmg than tanks cause they are more squishy.

 

[thergador]

Can't really put em on same level do u? 900 sec rut 80% of hps against 600 rut flat 3000 hps?

3000 Hps tank IPs3 = 5400 hps
1600 Hps Caster DI3 = 4600 hps

Pretty much throws out of the window all the shit about casters must do more dmg than tanks cause they are more squishy.

well yeah because if the tanks close enough to hit the caster then he can whack away and the caster cant do jack unless they moc so may be make give DI the same nerf as SOI got it it don't work with moc running ?

and lets be honest there isn't the same whine on usa server about di so its not gonna happen away as it the us server that make things change i cant recall any thing being changed due to eu pressure in the last 4 and a bit years

 

[liloe]

Well difference it's that this is passive -.-
And yes i encountered already the mighty Avalon stealthzergs, but they are crappier than the Uk cluster ones, so nothing to bother really ^^

Heh =) They're annoying when you're duo though =) Then again, it's not like we expect anything else when duoing, actively seeking these points is rather fun, we're not going down to lame soloer farming (well ok, we might've done it, but it was a quick inc to crau bridge and don't expect me to know the names of all soloers after 3 weeks of RvR'ing =)) )

To the other point, I think we both have our opinions, so it would be rather pointless to try and feed the fire with the same arguments again =) Both parties got valid points imho, but I stand to my idea that it's more or less a Dyvet problem only =)

 

[Gahn]

well yeah because if the tanks close enough to hit the caster then he can whack away and the caster cant do jack unless they moc so may be make give DI the same nerf as SOI got it it don't work with moc running ?

and lets be honest there isn't the same whine on usa server about di so its not gonna happen away as it the us server that make things change i cant recall any thing being changed due to eu pressure in the last 4 and a bit years

I see u don't get the point, nm.