Scale DI with group size

[Darkmack]

7K healing pool per DI3, that means Cleric/Cleric/Tic have 21K + 7K from double DI = 28K.

Add group instas and single instas and MoC3 healing and you have only group fights where everybody will adapt the tactics to kill DI users first.

Not sure you want that .

since when did people in FG nuke one person for 1000 damage then change to nuke another person generally that 1000 will be pointless 2 nukes gone makes it alot worse than DI3 at the moment tbh. Another thing ALL that pool would have to be wasted on EVERY person for DI to be reactivate it - tbh it really would make DI pointless even though its a bigger pool.

or maybe im missunderstanding ^-^

 

[trycorn]

since when did people in FG nuke one person for 1000 damage then change to nuke another person generally that 1000 will be pointless 2 nukes gone makes it alot worse than DI3 at the moment tbh. Another thing ALL that pool would have to be wasted on EVERY person for DI to be reactivate it - tbh it really would make DI pointless even though its a bigger pool.

or maybe im missunderstanding ^-^

idd u did, they meant that it would work like DI do now but the heal pool would be increased depending on the numbers in the grp...

 

[enkor]

how is it so difficult to understand anyway - just the amount of heal pool would depend on the amount of ppl in group - no change at all for fg players, and they could even make it reach 3k at 4-6 players, wouldnt really make that big a difference, just nerf it for duos - problem solved and 0 difference to fg players.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

or maybe im missunderstanding ^-^

Not maybe.

 

[Andrilyn]

Remove DI and gifv this sexy GW spell:

Protective Spirit
Enchantment Spell: For 5 to 19 seconds, target ally cannot lose more than 10% maximum health due to damage from a single attack or spell.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Yeah, Monks in GW are funny to play as hell.

I like 4 x Monk teams in random arenas .

 

[illu]

And now tell me who the hell cares? DI is fine atm, why change it? It's a balanced ability that works well and I see no need to touch it. Just cause 3 people use a DI bot, it doesn't mean that a whole system will be changed cause of that.

Yer it's annoying when you get farmed by a DI bot "duo", but you're only looking at a very small situation here. What if I'm in a group with 2 mates (which happens often) and we decide to tag along the zerg a bit? Who the hell cares then, if we're a 3man or an 8man group when considering the DI healing?

I'm sorry but all the energy spent in making posts could aswell be used to just make a 1v1 irc channel and tell people where they can come to solo? I don't think an IRC channel is a hard thing to maintain, but then again I'm an IRC noob =)

Also, if you're 2 people vs. a DI bot user, then you should be able to find out who the DI bot is, or not? Then just kill it and then proceed to the other toon. If you say now that "the other toon can freely kill us while we do that and sorces have evil CC and RR5 and whatever else" we're talking about class balance and no longer about DI bots.

I CARE! :> DI3 is the difference between a caster having 1500k health and 4500k health! A HUGE difference and impossible to kill if you are in a 1/2/3.

People have to be able to be killed - otherwise no one gets RP and the people that cannot kill things will just give up.

And like it or not - enough people feed on stealthers / soloers / low RR so if we disappear - all you'll have left are the "leet" crew, all RR11 and impossible to kill.

DI should definitely be looked at in small scale warfare. In a duo it is ridiculous. In 3 it is still OP. In a 4, it starts to be bearable, and in FG it is fine.
I had a few more goes at killing a certain Frenchman and his DI Bot tonight trying different tactics - seeing what weaps do what damage, and I got a little bit close to killing the DI Bot - and it was actually fun trying - even though I know the Frenchman was just appeasing me.
I came to the conclusion that the DI Bot is unkillable simply because even if you get close, it looks like it has at least 1 instaheal, perhaps even 2? and you simply cannot make enough damage to kill it.

I think the game has got to the stage where healers can heal too much. They have too much power, too many artis that can give more power, pots etc.. Some classes in small fights are being left behind because they cannot damage the enemy quicker than the healer is healing. Maybe it is time to make healers AND casters power pools smaller in RvR.

The game is too caster based - they need to bring some melee love back into the game. Actually just shadowblade love will do

Oli - Illu

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

I CARE! :> DI3 is the difference between a caster having 1500k health and 4500k health! A HUGE difference and impossible to kill if you are in a 1/2/3.

People have to be able to be killed - otherwise no one gets RP and the people that cannot kill things will just give up.

And like it or not - enough people feed on stealthers / soloers / low RR so if we disappear - all you'll have left are the "leet" crew, all RR11 and impossible to kill.

DI should definitely be looked at in small scale warfare. In a duo it is ridiculous. In 3 it is still OP. In a 4, it starts to be bearable, and in FG it is fine.
I had a few more goes at killing a certain Frenchman and his DI Bot tonight trying different tactics - seeing what weaps do what damage, and I got a little bit close to killing the DI Bot - and it was actually fun trying - even though I know the Frenchman was just appeasing me.
I came to the conclusion that the DI Bot is unkillable simply because even if you get close, it looks like it has at least 1 instaheal, perhaps even 2? and you simply cannot make enough damage to kill it.

I think the game has got to the stage where healers can heal too much. They have too much power, too many artis that can give more power, pots etc.. Some classes in small fights are being left behind because they cannot damage the enemy quicker than the healer is healing. Maybe it is time to make healers AND casters power pools smaller in RvR.

The game is too caster based - they need to bring some melee love back into the game. Actually just shadowblade love will do

Oli - Illu

Illu, you can pick your targets out of stealth. Be happy about it. When I meet some DI3 botted dudes I am screwed, you can avoid them.

Mythic doesn't give a shit around small scale RvR :/, they have stated it on various occassions lately.

In FG RvR DI is needed and if you ask me bonder/prot/spirit spammer tactics from GW (basicly damage prevention with small ammounts of heals) on DAoC classes would be really kick ass.

 

[illu]

Illu, you can pick your targets out of stealth. Be happy about it. When I meet some DI3 botted dudes I am screwed, you can avoid them.

Mythic doesn't give a shit around small scale RvR :/, they have stated it on various occassions lately.

In FG RvR DI is needed and if you ask me bonder/prot/spirit spammer tactics from GW (basicly damage prevention with small ammounts of heals) on DAoC classes would be really kick ass.

I'm slowly running out of targets to pick from stealth Casters you need to have vanish up in case anything goes wrong and it usually does (and then you still get blasted out of vanish and killed). Tanks are hard now, with PH nerf and Shield changes they'll be a joke in 1.87. And so we are left with other assassins, and apparently all we'll be doing is evading eachother like crazy, and because NS's and Infil's have Off-Evade stuns - and Shadowblades don't, guess who is better off again?
And what happens when fights last too long? Every leeching adding arse will come join in for their slice of undeserved RP.

What did you mean by "bonder/prot/spirit spammer tactics from GW (basicly damage prevention with small ammounts of heals) on DAoC classes would be really kick ass." - can you explain - I didn't understand :>

Oli - Illu

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

What did you mean by "bonder/prot/spirit spammer tactics from GW (basicly damage prevention with small ammounts of heals) on DAoC classes would be really kick ass." - can you explain - I didn't understand :>

In Guild Wars (though I am not up to date with recent skills) there is a Monk class and it can heal/keep people up in many different ways. You can just heal, you can infuse health (losing own), you can cast buffs that need to be disspelled on others that reduce your power regeneration but redirect reduced damage to you, you can cast timed buffs that reduce damage to a specified maximum ammount or you can cast buffs that make your target block a lot for some time. Lots of possiblities to heal in GW (but you can always only carry 8 skills with you to fight out of hundreds), it's funny.

The worst thing about DAoC in regards of PvP if you ask me is: assist macro, face, follow and stick followed the lack of collision detection and by different class speeds and ending with DPS class unbalance in favor to the casters with only few classes with charge.

Without stick/follow those people running own DI bots in RvR would be screwed royally, I have nothing against not removing those commands in PvE.

Maybe a lot of people would actually start to play the game then too by moving their chars all the time instead of running half afk stuck to a group leader spamming this forums with random garbage while there is nothing to fight .

 

[charmangle]

420 hp per person totally negates the point of having it

Eh...hmm...must have been a missunderstanding somewhere...

420 hp per person in group for DI 3 = 2940 HP (3k for DI 3 today)
285 hp per person in a group for DI2 = 1995 (2k for DI 2 today)
140 hp per person in a group for DI1 = 980 (1k for DI 1 today)

Now, why is that any different from how a fg would use it today ?

Also it makes sense that each person just contributes an amount of hp to the DI, so that it doesnt get more effective the fewer group members you have...as is the case today...

/Charmangle

 

[Nate]

In a lot of scenarios most of the hp pool in the DI would go to one group member(an assist train etc), it allows the target of all this damage to be able to get away from the damage before dieing. Unless in a siege/short range situation where aoe damage/pbae damage would be used. So 4xx hp/group member would be a severe nerf to DI.

By the way guys, if you want to voice your concerns about DI and think it would be a good way to change it in the game..it would be better to post them here directly to mythic: http://www.camelotherald.com/feedback.php

GOA have no control over these types of things in the game, and Mythic sure as hell don't read these forums

 

[Sparklehorse]

Whats the point discussin it when mythic wont change it regardless of how much u wish

 

[enkor]

whats the point when 90% of people in this thread misunderstand the concept, too.

 

[Darzil]

The worst thing about DAoC in regards of PvP if you ask me is: assist macro, face, follow and stick followed the lack of collision detection and by different class speeds and ending with DPS class unbalance in favor to the casters with only few classes with charge.

I'd suggest that the assist macro isn't the problem - the huge benefits of several people attacking one is the problem. Removing the macro doesn't stop those with teamspeak (most people, probably) from assisting (which they currently can do faster than the assist macro, which is a bit laggy).

What I'd prefer is a balance such that a fg vs fg fight is effectively parallel 1 vs 1 and 1 vs 2 fights, rather than serial 1 vs 6 fights.

Darzil

 

[Kados]

Very interresting idear

But couldnt you also adjust it to aim at FG use:

DI 1: 400hp 2 person group, 750hp 4 person group, 1000hp 8 person group
DI 2: 600hp 2 person group, 1500hp 4 person group, 2000hp 8 person group
DI 3: 1000hp 2 person group, 2500hp 4 person group, 3200hp 8 person group

Dont know about a proper amount in the pool, but doing it like this the DIs intention (to aid the healing class in FG action) will be held higher then the degrading DI bot.

 

[Gahn]

Interesting how most peeps moan cause there's only shit threads in RvR section, and for once that some1 put up a good discussion here comes the doomsayers "Wtf u talk about Mythic won't change a bit" etc etc
Priceless

 

[Castus]

Interesting how most peeps moan cause there's only shit threads in RvR section, and for once that some1 put up a good discussion here comes the doomsayers "Wtf u talk about Mythic won't change a bit" etc etc
Priceless

what like 'this servers dead, all you who play here are zerging skillless twats but do you mind if i post on your forum` posts?...
OT: DI is fine don`t change it.The people roaming with DI Bots can be counted on 2 hands.

 

[Gahn]

what like 'this servers dead, all you who play here are zerging skillless twats but do you mind if i post on your forum` posts?...
OT: DI is fine don`t change it.The people roaming with DI Bots can be counted on 2 hands.

On a low pop server maybe, that doesn't mean that this ra scaled accordingly with group size would be way better and more balanced than now.
Also 1st part of your post got really nothing to do with my post.

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

Hey,

In the thread in the DI nerf Enkor (Skold) reccomended the idea of adjusting the DI pool. What would you think as an appropriate amount?

IMO:

DI1 300hp for each player (not user)
DI2 500hp for each player (not user)
DI3 1000hp for each player (not user)

Range = 2000 no LOS check.

Pool can be used to heal anyone in group apart from user, pool is not effected by desease, pool is lowered/raised when someone leaves/enteres the group. Costs power to cast (needs thought).

Your thoughts!

Stupid idea TBH - how is my Servant Necro supposed to wtfpwn arti mobs solo with gimp DI?

 

[Gahn]

Stupid idea TBH - how is my Servant Necro supposed to wtfpwn arti mobs solo with gimp DI?

Healing and fop? ^^

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

Healing and fop? ^^

That'll never catch on

besides, need DI to get good aggro on Abom because some mobs are twitchy as fook

 

[Cromcruaich]

The people roaming with DI Bots can be counted on 2 hands.

never mind that, the people roaming can be counted on 2 hands.

 

[Gahn]

never mind that, the people roaming can be counted on 2 hands.

Bah need to spread round some more rep -.-

 

[Joohl]

wasn't DI invented due to healer could not keep up with nuke speed?
removal of DI means casting speeds has to be adjusted, and then mele char have to run slower to compensate for slower casting.

 

[dub]

di was invented to give hibs and albs more advantage

 

[thergador]

Hey,

In the thread in the DI nerf Enkor (Skold) reccomended the idea of adjusting the DI pool. What would you think as an appropriate amount?

IMO:

DI1 300hp for each player (not user)
DI2 500hp for each player (not user)
DI3 1000hp for each player (not user)

Range = 2000 no LOS check.

Pool can be used to heal anyone in group apart from user, pool is not effected by desease, pool is lowered/raised when someone leaves/enteres the group. Costs power to cast (needs thought).

Your thoughts!

no way would that be ok by any one that use's it in PvE from framing in a duo though so you might wanna go for something like the ml9 nerf where its only nerfed in rvr need it to duo/trio ml8.10 tbh

and may just give it the same heal pool as normal but make it kick in at 60% and give it a max heal or something like 300 or 400 per heal per toon that way it would still work fine in PvE and in RvR but it wouldnt be the uber caster saver that it seems to be as you could still hit a caster with a crit and two shot it

 

[pip]

I'd say have it max out at 4 people rather than 8, but otherwise sounds good

Then you would get 2 people in grp+ there di if it was 4 bad idea just get rid of it or make it work only for fg? but then we prob moan about 4 people in grp with di?ffs all we can do is moan

 

[Castus]

Bah need to spread round some more rep -.-

And now the 1st part of my post does become relevant.........

 

[Cromcruaich]

And now the 1st part of my post does become relevant.........

Hehe, lighten up. You can take a bit of humourous ribbing can't you?