Say goodbye to SB's and stealth wars.

[Solid]

I say to any dumb fuck quoting Wyrd's growth rate...dont, you dont know wtf it means to begin with and you dont know its accurate.

I then say to any dumb fuck who thinks DF4TehWin is how all SB play to thin again.

SB landing his PA+CD = 3 DF till ooe, 3 DF is not gonna kill anyone bar a caster even after PA+CD.

ALL clever SB with min 39 spec LA go for a Snowsqual or 2 (Icy if ur a SZ) post bubblepopper.

5spec: PA+CD+SS+SS (2nd SS if ur fast and use a cleaver/ha combo)

SZ: BS2+SS+IB before stun has worn off.

thats 1/3 or MORE of an end bar GONE. leaves enuff for 2-3 DF MAX.

For the majoroity of SB's on Pryd and US servers (excal being its own weird teeniebop server full of alleged 50 Axe/LA SB's...lol what bullshit) a low bonus tohit style coupled with 36-39 WEAPONspec = high rate of evades by infiltrators and nightshades, so dont come spouting you guys know ALL about the assasin traingle (and yes its the most important comparison for any stealther class, to be competitive with their realm counterparts).

No chance to kill a heavy tank JUST using DF unless ur End Regened, in which case ur in a group so you used valid tactics, OR you just fresh out the PK (clue 10min timered End Regen is gone before your half way between a pair of Milegates in Emain or Hadrians)

Bottom line is for an actual stealthing soloing Shadowblade Doublefrost has NEVER EVER been his primary attack style, all you bullshitters are lying.

I dont deny the style damage on LA styles was too high, and warranted toning down.

But DF to a SB was nowhere near what you people proclaim it was, aka best thnk since sliced bread.

Sorry but a 5spec running round with 36 weaponspec compared to a infil with 50 spec and either Dragonfang if their thrust or damage bonus to SB leather if their slash.

Bottom line is SB now need one of the following ro remain competitive versus their assassin counterparts:

EITHER 2.5spec like infils
OR Str/Dex based Thrust weapons and better RA's

People in this thread are bullshitting SO FUCKING MUCH, when in reality none of these liars have even played a Shadowblade to 50 and RvRed with em.

I have played a SB in RvR a lot AND have been on the recieving end of so many guaranteed beatdowns by Infiltrators AND Nightshades with my Thane.

10-15% damage reduction to LA style damage across the board coupled with a sizeable reduction in Doublefrost damage AND a reduction in Doublefrost END cost would have been BALANCE.

What Mythic have done is farcical.

LA alone was never the sole cause of 800-1000 hits from zerkers, those were LUCKY crits in vendo mode.

Please remember Vendo is 1-99% crits, NOT a fuckign 99% crit everytime. There is every chance of a shit crit% in vendo form, so not only was them big hits limited to once every 7 mins, but also depended on a LUCKY crit AND the beserkers running around with base Qui (which had its own disadvantages, see if u numbskulls can figure it out)

Beserkers will still be hitting you morons for 1000+ damage, even more so imo, with 2H base Qui Tundra + Havoc/Tyrs/Glacial Movement/Evernight/Ragnarok + Vendo

What exactly are you gonna do then? cry NERF again?

 

[Cala-more]

tradtionally a assasin( sb) was hired to kill an unskilled person in mellee combat eg(caster) not a knight wearing plate.

 

[ssera]

Right, that's what I thought so:

Originally posted by Talen
... as all "SBs use the PA--->CD--->SS combo" anyways.

SBs should be Infils then... Otherwise what difference would it make to the SB if he manages to get PA->CD->SS off as he can still get stunned by df...

Probably being very pedantic here, just wanted to clear things up Still landing a CD on an assasin is pretty hard as they tend to evade quite a lot especially nice big 2handers (no idea why people think they're better - I'm a critblade and seriously considering going 1h and shield).


Edit- hmm bw decided to post while I was still writting =/

 

[Solid]

Originally posted by Cala-more
tradtionally a assasin( sb) was hired to kill an unskilled person in mellee combat eg(caster) not a knight wearing plate.

Whats your point?

an Shadowblade or Nightshade can NEVER kill an unbuffed Paladin or Armsman of EQUAL RR assuming two players with more than half a braincell and all their fingers to boot.

a BUFFED SB/NS cannot kill a BUFFED Paladin/Armsman of EQUAL RR assuming two players with more than half a braincell and all their fingers to boot.

Sorry but blaming the impact of buffbots on Shadowblades is pathetic

If your an unbuffed platewearer being chewed up by a buffbotted SB or NS, is that a SB/NS CLASS issue or a BUFFBOT issue or a BILLY NO MATES I GOT NO GROUP PLATEWEARING TANK issue?

Please for the love of god can u moro0ns explain your witty comments and how the fuck they are relevant to this discussion?

 

[Derric]

Originally posted by klavrynd

They reduced the damage enough so now the x extra specpoints you put in la is used to get more styles which do the same damage as base styles with only difference that you have an offhand that allways swings.

So LA will be more like DW after the nerf?

 

[Solid]

LA at 39+spec = DW at 39+ spec.

LA at 1 spec is much worse than DW at 1 spec

means the only viable dual wielding SB template MUST involve 36+ LA to maintain any semblance of DW damage advantage over 1H+Shield

Its basically killed the 5-spec DEAD. a SB now has to give up 1 line completely and leave anotehr at less than useful spec. And even then they stand zero chance versus equal RR NS and Infs.

 

[Derric]

Well I never liked SB's anyways

 

[old.Elrond]

Don't bother solid there will always be retards who spew shit...in fact im going to sum it all up in one sentence so they need not post

"suck it up sb! here comes the nerf, use your CLASS DEFINING cs line like everyone else, fs you even have overpowering 2h weapons to fall back on. cry me a river just because your melee damage is the same *if not still better* than ours..no longer will you be able to 3 shot buffed plate wearing tanks with your overpowered doublefrost IWIN button. Finally people will stand a chance of killing you and you wont be able to run around unstealthed spamming LA styles on every class you meet. Now that we have fixed and balanced shadowblades its time to fix bonedancers and savages...now they are the fotm classes and must have their damage lowered"

I think I got it all in there...point is you can never use intelligent arguements against unintelligent people.

edit: that wasn't aimed at derric

 

[ssera]

think you missed a few "cry more n00b"s in there Elrond

 

[klavrynd]

So LA will be more like DW after the nerf?

Not at all.

An inf speccing DW will get extra damage and will keep his main hand damage, whereas with low specs in LA you will allways get an offhand swing but your basedamage gets lowered to 60 + 0.5%/specpoint.

Therefor it is imperative that IF you spec LA AND you're using an offhand axe, you spec it high enough.

for infs its a nice extra, for sb's it's a choice you make


ps : i dont give a rat's ass about sb's , im just a bit pissed of i wasted 1year+

 

[-yoda-]

@ sb's n zerkers u not been nerfed . your dmgehas been toned down to come in line with other realms.... yes u wil say infils do nice dmge. but thats ussually from crit spec line where they have to line themselves up for pa , bs etc ,,,

where as all you unskilled "which is basicialy what u r" sb's do is run upto somebody stealthed and just hack away with your uber anytime styles . as for the guy who said casters beware we comming for you cos thats all we will be able to kill IMHO thats all you should be able to kill is other stealthers "mins/bow classes/ other assasins, and casters

you shouldnt be able to take out a tank class so easy "you do kill em easy" without having to pa/bs ,, so i think if they are the classes u can take out then mythic have done a GREAT job balanceing yoiur dmge ..

 

[ssera]

Originally posted by -yoda-
@ sb's n zerkers u not been nerfed . your dmgehas been toned down to come in line with other realms.... yes u wil say infils do nice dmge. but thats ussually from crit spec line where they have to line themselves up for pa , bs etc ,,,

where as all you unskilled "which is basicialy what u r" sb's do is run upto somebody stealthed and just hack away with your uber anytime styles . as for the guy who said casters beware we comming for you cos thats all we will be able to kill IMHO thats all you should be able to kill is other stealthers "mins/bow classes/ other assasins, and casters

you shouldnt be able to take out a tank class so easy "you do kill em easy" without having to pa/bs ,, so i think if they are the classes u can take out then mythic have done a GREAT job balanceing yoiur dmge ..

I'm a critblade, I've got 50 + 14 CS atm and I cannot take on other assasins easily. For one, lining up a pa on someone you can't see if pretty hard, then if you can see them then they can most likely see you and so will avoid getting pa'd by hitting you first and finally, CD almost never lands (gets evaded) and even if it does with a 2 hander you at most will get 2 shots in before stun wears off, not too mention that you've also just been str/con debuffed.... Granted I'm unbuffed 90% of the time I solo but even buffed I usually die.

The closest I've got to killing a tank 1on1 was a luri champion I met in Odin's. Got PA and CD and got him to about 15% HP where he promptly IPd and battered me into the ground. Scouts and mincers I can handle if I get the jump and if I get cd in AND if I have purge up.

I'm not concerned with this nerf at all as I have 1 in LA, and have always seen myself as a caster killer, just annoys me when people come along and say "you'll be just the same as Infils and NSs now" because we won't by a long margin. SB's will become caster killers now (with the odd archer/mincer thrown in) but we'll always get owned by infils and NSs.

And for the nth time, Midgard = melee realm, why should our damage be brought in line with the other realms? Maybe we should nerf all hib caster damage in line with the other two realms and get rid of Alb plate? Nerfing a class into oblivion is not the way to go about balancing the game, fixes to weaker classes is what is needed.

Oh and on a general issue I really hope Mythic takes a look at the CS chain and boosts it a bit, but then again casters would whine and it'd just get nerfed again. *sigh*

 

[old.Elrond]

haha, yoda just used my patented 'copy/paste whine for ignorant albs without a clue' and rephrased it. GG! dumbass

 

[Talen]

Originally posted by Solid


Bottom line is for an actual stealthing soloing Shadowblade Doublefrost has NEVER EVER been his primary attack style, all you bullshitters are lying.


Bottom line is SB now need one of the following ro remain competitive versus their assassin counterparts:

EITHER 2.5spec like infils
OR Str/Dex based Thrust weapons and better RA's

People in this thread are bullshitting SO FUCKING MUCH, when in reality none of these liars have even played a Shadowblade to 50 and RvRed with em.

I have played a SB in RvR a lot AND have been on the recieving end of so many guaranteed beatdowns by Infiltrators AND Nightshades with my Thane.

10-15% damage reduction to LA style damage across the board coupled with a sizeable reduction in Doublefrost damage AND a reduction in Doublefrost END cost would have been BALANCE.

What Mythic have done is farcical.

LA alone was never the sole cause of 800-1000 hits from zerkers, those were LUCKY crits in vendo mode.

Please remember Vendo is 1-99% crits, NOT a fuckign 99% crit everytime. There is every chance of a shit crit% in vendo form, so not only was them big hits limited to once every 7 mins, but also depended on a LUCKY crit AND the beserkers running around with base Qui (which had its own disadvantages, see if u numbskulls can figure it out)

Beserkers will still be hitting you morons for 1000+ damage, even more so imo, with 2H base Qui Tundra + Havoc/Tyrs/Glacial Movement/Evernight/Ragnarok + Vendo

What exactly are you gonna do then? cry NERF again?

Lol Solid... Simply lol. You ignore the fact that "good" SBs use end stones/potions and you never ever mention the fact that your sb had close to 2000 (1999) hp while I with toughness 2/aug con 1 has about 1795 with full buffs.


And 200 hp does matter if you haven't realised that. And yes every sb that doesn't do snowsquall/IB after pa-cd is a moron anyway.

As SBs still have that advantage + being able to use 2h I still dont think they deserve either 2.5 spec points nor thrust weapons. And yes the SBs I face nowadays spam DF more or less. They still got access to "for example" axe styles which arent that bad overall and having equal style bonus to the one *I* currently use.

Still people are whining on the basis of LA being "totally" gimped post-patch... IMO they are brought down to the damage they should have done already from the start.

SBs *dont need* to 5-spec to gimp their weaponskill due they being able to use axe/sword styles or *gasp* CS-styles like garrote/ah.

And tbh I cant really either go a true 5-spec without gimping my infil. Whining about the end-usage of DF is just /laugh anyway. Due to the fact of being end-regens for the people that manages to grasp the fact that they can get them.

EDIT: I have specced my damage/dw lines to 50 and I still see myself getting outdamaged by SBs. So even though they haven't got 2.5 spec points nor the str relics nor any str/dex weapons they still do? Wonder why they do that ^^

 

[blaien Kayy]

Nerfing a class into oblivion is not the way to go about balancing the game

I've been playing a scout for the past year or so and yes it sux being nerfed to shit, but you learn to live with it.

 

[old.Emma]

what makes me laugh the most though is a large majority of the servers in the US have all had /level 30 on mid.. guess thats because they nurfed us the most although what class`s are people gonna roll there.. there`s a handfull of viable class's left compaired to hib/alb who`s class`s have yet to have any nurfs of the same magnitude of middy class`s.

im certainly not looking forward to 1.62 thats for sure.. although the /level 30 command will be nice for hib/excal where i can roll my brand new FOTM chanter.

a class that is clearly overpowered but never nurfed \o/

i bet they will nurf the nurfed zerkers again before they even consider nurfing chanters.. and even then it`ll be something stupid like.

chanter pets will no longer attack enemies straight away instead they will /laugh /rude /flex before engaging in combat.

 

[ssera]

Originally posted by Talen

As SBs still have that advantage + being able to use 2h I still dont think they deserve either 2.5 spec points nor thrust weapons. And yes the SBs I face nowadays spam DF more or less. They still got access to "for example" axe styles which arent that bad overall and having equal style bonus to the one *I* currently use.

spamming df with a 2 hander... must try that sometime, tho not having df might make it more tricky than it first seems

And yeah Blaien, archers in general were nerfed into oblivion so long ago, and only now are starting to get some love (new fotm - who knows?) Overall it's probably more work for mythic to nerf a class totally then "fix" it rather than just fixing straight away.

 

[old.Elrond]

big up to talen! retard number 2! I can't believe anyone can be that stupid tbh, after all the rational arguements that have been put forward in defense of shadowblades, how someone can keep making ignorant comments is baffling. I bet you are thrust spec huh, cant live without your single evade reactionary that us SB's have never had...we have been having to use skill for the past year in order to melee stun someone while you've had it easy. And if you are slash, all I can do is /laugh at your gimpyness if you cant beat a 5 spec shadowblade.

For the record, I dont want to see infiltrators nerfed..all I want is shadowblades back on par.

 

[old.Elrond]

Oh and if you can, please explain how having access to 2h weapons is an advantage when it only increases PA damage by about 100 and is 3x slower in melee whilst also being more easily evaded and blocked.

 

[Solid]

Talen you evidently dont know shit about shadowblades for starters, and you have not been lookign at the damage logs as a second.

DW ONLY grants you infs the chance to swing offhand, it does NOTHING to your weapon damage.

SB BASE DAMAGE for BOTH weapons is determined by LA spec, we dont spec LA, we get a MASSIVE DW damage penalty, UNLIKE infs. LA also determines the offhand damage variance and sorry I dotn fancy hitting for 20-40 offhand with my 1LA when you guys hit for full damage AND can spec DW into the 30's natural.

If you truly believe usign CS styles and Axe/Sword styles with a low LA spec is viable you ignorant beyond belief.

Shadowblades have NOTHING except a ho advantage over the oterh assasins.

we dont get ANY otehr advantage, sorry but a 2H assasin is NOT viable against anything except casters.

from DAY ONE of this game 2H assasins have been owned royally bu infs and NS and any otehr non caster class so dont come proclaiming 2H Perf is a significant advantage, it isnt.

the assasin triangle has been skewed MAJORLY.

Talen say all you want, Infiltrators NEVER needed 2.5spec points, mythics reason was to "MAKE THEM MORE WELL ROUNDED" and thats as wishy washy as it gets.

Take my 2H perf and 200hp and give me 2.5specpoints a str/dex weapon choice in the thrust damage type and you wont hear me complain.

Next i guess u infs will be claiming your NOT overpowered post 1.62? lol.

 

[Lochlyessa]

yes, make all assassin classes the same, that would be muchly pld-

 

[walkerb]

wtf?

 

[ghoul]

/laugh

So deserved.

 

[Talen]

As people fail to see my point about 100% of the time they try to write a decent reply, I feel like there is no real hope for this thread anyway as it has currently resolved into 1 person with real arguements (Solid) and then 1248124098 wannabes (Elrond and ze pack).

But as many others people still only post their point of view on the matter instead of simply trying to make something decent out of it. And no Solid I "haven't" watched every fecking wannabe "I HAFV BEEN NERFED!" log on vnboards, only thing I know from playing this infil to rr6 is that most SBs have a higher damage output overall. And then I have the so called "tankfil" spec which is supposed to be equal to the SZer. As you people like to put it in the great *assasin triangle*?


Btw pushing comeback/frosty gaze is teh m4d ski11z imo. I mean OMFG! You might even have to press 3 (!) buttons during a fight, I think I will faint from the restraint of having to perform a 2-style-chain... /point /laugh

Then whatever arguement you bring forth, every log, supposed screenshot and onwards wont really matter, as I know the current situation as I have been on the recieving end of it for like.... 6-7 months (If I include my scout as well).

I almost get a neural breakdown when I see idiotic posts like "WAH MOMMY I DONT WANT TO HAVE THE ABILITY TO USE 2her because imo it sucks". ~~

My simple answer to that is: Infs dont *need* to spec thrust either.

 

[Gekul]

Originally posted by Talen
It's quite intresting that *every* SB tries to motivate the current style bonuses which is like... laughable. Currently I play a so called "mercfil" which "should be" equal to a SZ right..?

My main style is Dual Shadows which currently inherits a style bonus of 0.88 and it's position-based (frontal which isn't as good as people believe at all)

Shadowblades are currently able to use a ANYTIMER which uses a style bonus of 1.25 (And sure it drains loads of end but as most assasins fight 1v1 anyway that doesn't matter much at all imo)

I also use a back style when I'm fighting called "Pierce" which currently uses a style bonus of 0.73...

At the same time Shadowblades gets access to the style called "Snowsquall" which has the style bonus of 1.54 which is roughly the double style bonus.

Then if we start checking on the reactionary styles then:


I, as a infil got the so called "I-WIN" style which has the amazing style bonus of 0.85!

They, as midgardian shadowblades get "Comeback" with the quite ridicolous (sp?) style bonus of 1.75.



As currently SBs has the same damage as I have, mostly faster then me *EVEN* though I have all 3 str relics and should gain a large advantage from that "right"?

Sure you can use the arguement that thrust is a inferior damage type vs midgardian leather and that slash is neutral vs alb leather but it doesn't work like that anyway as we are still lacking 10% damage then.


And also the current whine about LA damage cap being yadayada doesn't really matter much if you are a SZ with 40+ LA imo.
And the reason infils got 0.3 specpoints is because SBs got close to 200 hp more when buffed and that they are still able to use 2h weapons so no whine about that please.


Also serious replies to this with decent arguements. I DONT want any random whine as a answer to this. ^^


EDIT: Even SBs "that does spec" CS currently deals too much damage with their styles anyway so no I wont take that as a reply. And the crap about midgård being "melee-realm" isn't gonna cut it either ^^

Your argument is flawed and incomplete. Every LA thread someone mentions those very same points, and every LA thread someone will take the time to explain why the points are flawed.

Also serious replies to this with decent arguements. I DONT want any random whine as a answer to this. ^^

Come back with arguments, kept in context and without exaggeration and I might be bothered.

 

[Gekul]

I can't get on to planetside atm so I'll add some points.

First of all, the style bonus. Your style bonus is being applied to 100% of your weapons base damage, LA is between 60-80% depending on spec. The style bonus is larger, but not by the amount it appears on paper. So, the shadowblade if specced correctly can style for more damage than their rivals before 1.62.
If assasins were exactly the same on all points but style bonus this would be unfair. The truth is they're not.

There are other points to consider:

- Shadowblades stun style is shorter and the second in a chain, button pressing is not a problem (I can't believe people consider this skill :/ ), landing 2 styles succesfully however is.

- Shadowblades spec CS/Env/Weapon lower to get these LA styles

- Shadowblades have no choice in damage type, they have STR based only, meaning STR/CON debuffs hinder more.


While delay is taken in to account on from hidden styles, it doesn't have as large an effect. This means perf with a 2h is not as good as you think it is.

 

[Danya]

- Nightshade stun is even shorter, your point?

- Taking thrust to 50 actually costs more points even considering the extra spec points that infils get than taking LA to 39 (It costs 495 points to raise a skill from 39 to 50, infils get approximately 389 extra points) meaning they have less for cs/envenom/dw.

- Shadowblades have more strength to start with due to access to the norse race.

 

[old.Elrond]

talen if you'd care to read the start of this thread and the many other threads i've contributed valid arguements to then maybe you would appreciate the fact that I'm bored repeating myself to complete clueless fools like you. Your basis for your accusations is based on your own personal experience from which you somehow draw the conclusion that shadowblades do too much damage...wow thats a solid arguement...from my personal experience my damage was equal to a regular infiltrator and inferior to slash infiltrators.

And for the record no your spec does not = SZ as you spec thrust...what do you expect when you gimp yourself against our armour type just so you can recieve the IWIN button. (sorry for the cliche I don't care if its unfounded or not it's been used against me many times when its obviously not true) If you want to do more damage than shadowblades do to you then spec slash you complete moron and you will get a 20% damage increase. Plus if I only press 3 buttons then hmm you must only press 2, even if neither is skill you still have the advantage.

One last thing, how would you like it if suddenly they removed DW from infiltrators, deleted your stun, and forced you all to use a 5.5 speed 2h sword? Thats what Mythic have done to SB's and you somehow think its fine...so I guess you wouldn't object if they do it to you huh?

At the end of the day I can't be bothered making all the arguements I've made before (its a lot more than this) for someone as thick as you who will just turn around and make an idiotic comment like "SB's do too much damage, I know this because I'm a rr6 infil and have played for 7 months, this makes me qualified to pass judgement in the face of contradictory evidence."

You sir are a bitter, moronic, myopic, narrowminded whiner.

 

[old.Elrond]

Just had a little play with character creator danyan...came up with 50 thrust, 34 crit, 34 stealth, 35 venom, 34 DW...I fail to see how thats so different from my 37axe, 34 crit, 34 stealth, 35 venom, 39 LA except that the infil gets a whoping load more weaponskill than I do and also has the option to drop DW completely to gain more crit strike. I'm not sure of the point you were trying to make...

 

[old.Cher]

about the /lvl command, mid isn't the only one getting the /lvl 30 on alot of servers, in fact we draw with 6 each.

from a ns's point of view, its crap that we have to get rr5 before even being considered as being able to kill an inf or sb of similer realm rank, and infs and sbs normally hand my arse to me,

but i expect that as a unbuffed solo assassin.

will be intresting after the nerf, thats all i have to say for now