Say goodbye to SB's and stealth wars.

[Generic Poster]

SB nerfed themselves with all their buffbots. When mid had Str-relics, I was getting 2shotted by SBs for 450+ a hit. If the majority of SBs are going to take a strong class, 100% buff him and go on a rampage, don't exect to get away with it.

The only nerf is for the 5% of SBs without a buffbot, they have my sympathy.

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
It's about time INVISIBLE characters got slapped hard. They've had the run of the show in DAoC for far too long.



-G

As someone who stands up and fights like a man (well, Troll), I agree

Just balance them, don't cripple them. A multi-class game is all about balance.

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by Belsameth
I expect most of the changes mythic makes are based on a fully buffed character, yes. especially in an age where buffbots are norm, not exeption...

and I agree on stealth, but I guess that was already obvious....

Really? You think we all can afford to run two+ accounts and all have two+ PCs permanently available on which to run them? Buffbots are IMO utterly contrary to the spirit of the game, built as DAOC is around co-operation.
If I were GOA, top of my nerf-list would be using BBs.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Solid
Its recently been discovered (very simple plain to see infallable tests done by a IGN Dev Board user) that for LA at least, Dual Wielding not only reduces the base damage to 60% + 0.5% per spec point in LA, but it lowers the base damage CAPS. Only by speccing in LA can you get your base damage caps anywhere near the caps you see for non dual wielders, and this requires a high LA spec.

I thought that was known for ages....
Anyway, 60-90% lower base damage (and cap) doesn't justify 300% higher style damage...

 

[Solid]

Danyan

Wyrd did not factor in the lower base damage caps for his skewed LA formula, so whilst his formulas reported 300% style damage, it was infact INACCURATE.

Wyrd did NOT work a lower base dmaage CAP into his LA calculations and so his forumula reports inflated growth rates.

ALLEGEDLY ofc, nothing has been proven and confirmed as yet on that thread, but everyone knows the LA formula is inaccurate from Wyrd.

 

[The Real Redi]

Originally posted by svartmetall
If I were GOA, top of my nerf-list would be using BBs.

No, it wouldn't be, cos when you look at the amount of cash thats generated by buffbot owners, you'd do exactly what Mythic and GOA have done all along - ignore it, and keep lighting their spliffs with £20 notes.

Everyone has to remember one thing - both Mythic and GoA are profit making companies. They aren't a charity, they aren't a PLC, they aren't a democracy. They make money from each account sold/subscription renewed. EQ stopped Ebay selling on Characters = nice move. Mythic and GoA won't until they can cover the earnings they will lose from the accounts that change hands. People even sell drops on Ebay for cold hard RL cash ffs!

Someone hacks an account, and mythic/goa will investigate, but unless they find a photograph of the crime taking place, and a signed confession, they won't do much about it. Maybe they do close the offenders account - they go out, by another copy do it again.

As long as it doesnt actually LOSE them money, you'r not going to find GoA/Mythic sweating a whole bunch over buffbots. Lets face it, you would't if it meant a new porsche, or a pet Llama or something...

 

[scarffs]

Come to planetside, great game !
Forget about this fucked up game and fight for your future !

 

[kallora]

yawn /cry more SB...

you will still be able to kill casters and others without too much trouble.

So now you will start to feel the victimisation the rest of us feel when 5 SBs gang up on us

 

[The Real Redi]

Any Assassin who whines - How many of you die from DoT's and poisons, even long after you've killed the godamsombitch who stuck them in you? It's annoying... its what you guys do.

We deal with it, but as soon as anyone mentions even the slightest bit of love to tanks, or the slightest nerf to LA, you get up here whinin! Assassins skulk around, picking their targets, and killing quickly and as silently as possible. You don't PA an Armsman then stab him to death, just because he's a bit slower than you! He should deal with you rather simlarly to a caster - maybe three or four swipes of that heavy, heavy pole and you should be bleeding from every orrifice, begging for mercy. even if the armsman dies afterwards from your poisons, etc.

You have a vicious evade, as far as i know, only even nearly equalled by the "Advanced Evade" (360 evade), but you evade so frequently compared to how often i parry AND evade combined, that you will often win from that alone.

Assassins are dressed in tissue-thin leather, and are built like the guy from the Mr Muscle cleaning adverts. Imo, the damage dealt to these twiglets in kitchen roll armour should be hiked, as we hit you rarely enough, and when we do, you'll inevitably be buffed out of your arse with resists comparable to a keep lord.

GOA:

Hike damage dealt by heavy metal to assasins seeing as they can can dodge the fastest swinging tank, with the fastest weapon regularly, and apparently with ease.

Make resist caps relevant to your class/race, like you reckon your going to do for stat caps. (i.e. Trolls and Norse can max out Cold resist, seeing as they live in the damn snow, Sorcerors can max out Spirit resist, as they have such controlled minds, etc)

wow, this turned into quite a marathon, huh?

I'm only digging at the assasins who think they have it bad, btw, those of you who play to your strengths, and don't expect to Pwn everything in every arena and whine when you don't, those who play well, i salute you.

Theres a lot of good assasins out there, sadly, they are outnumbered by people who won't be happy until they are able to call a "Stealth Airstrike", or something, just to pwn even more.

You'll forget about the nerf in a few months when you realize you will STILL be able to pick who you fight and when, and that you can still pwn 90% of casters...

 

[thorungla]

Just thought I'd add a few more respsonses to this thread.


1. It wasnt whine, just a very simplified explanation of how the patch will affect people. As I said I have more then enough characters to keep me entertained when I feel like joining the mindless rvr.

2. Those of you that think stealth should never have existed and its unfair rogues can kill with no impunity have obviously never played one in rvr. Very very few people ever run solo, the occasional times I decide to have a go at a caster in a group is almost a guaranteed death unless his grp mates are half asleep. Forget all the time involved in stalking your enemy, rogues do not just charge to the action at mach 10 and kill someone you know, it takes alot of time and patience. The inclusion of patience also means you can be sure that most are more mature players and will happily get on with something else when they are nerfed.

3. Rogues existed in the game for those people that either preferred to generally or just at that moment in time solo. This is also the reason buffbots appeared. Because they are primarily solo or with 1 or 2 other rogues due to necessity (ie just how zergs grow so does a stealth group) they did not have group buffs and so could no longer compete against group classes as each little nerf over the last 18 months came into effect. They could still kill but it would require more patience and target selection so the many fotm rogues that appeared overtime gradually appeared with bots. (personally I dont really have a problem with bots I understand completely why many felt they needed them, but I still prefer to play without and be one of the few with a real and honest view of the class, call me naive but thats my opinion)

4. I have so far resisted the need to use a buffbot (just last night I was in a mini group of 3 SB's and none of us had buffs) the few times I do have buffs is when I've been part of a group and performing scout duties. More evidence of this is that I only just dinged RR4 on my SB last night (thanks Monkeymagic ) It is a very tough task geting RR's nowadays playing the class as intended, although intention is a difficult concept to grasp since Mythic keep miving the goal posts.

5. Finally and again personally, I feel as more and more people whine and classes from any realm are nerfed the realms get closer and closer with respect to what skills they have. This has happened overtime already and is gonna make rvr even more boring. Playing a caster back before the nerf to one shot kills not destealthing an assasin, sure I'd curse at being killed but never whine nerf. Same for archers before they were nerfed, it was only the noob casters sitting in rvr or running around solo that cried at being sniped. As a caster I wouldnt go solo, sit rarely and for a very short time and stay close to a tank with guard. None of the many things that have been nerfed could not be countered and all the good groups know this and have got on and enjoyed the game. For me this was an extra excitement to the game and added dynamic. For many others though it appears they want to game to become less and less exciting. For the good players and groups the game just gets easier and more boring I'm sure. Oh well each to their own.

There ya go, more opinion from the guy that usually types to much in posts

 

[Jergiot]

Originally posted by thorungla
Patch 1.62 going ahead regardless of the effect on SB's. In just a few short weeks SB's will no longer stand a chance against Infils and NS's.

For those that want to stay and play a critblade, make sure you buy shadowrun, that will be your only means of escape once you spot an enemy stealther.

And since I'm sure many will stick it out. Prepare to whine more all you alb and hib casters, as all SB's will become kamikaze caster killers as you will really be the only target available to them.

Thank god I got a decent choice of chars to play so never get fed up of any one in particular.

1. we dont know how bad the nerf is.
2. sbs run as soon as their class gets balanced?
3. ye, omg, sbs have to specc critical strike now, man life is unfair :[
4. omg, sbs wont be able to beat tanks without landing cs first.
5. im not in anyway saying infils/ns are balanced. i dont fight against infils and i dont fight ns enough to have an opinion about them.

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by kallora
yawn /cry more SB...

you will still be able to kill casters and others without too much trouble.

So now you will start to feel the victimisation the rest of us feel when 5 SBs gang up on us

ohh lol i love that comment..

we go around kill casters cos thats all we can do in 1.62

while infils and shades continue to kill all of mids class`s tanks/hybrids/support and casters.. mmm thats seems very balanced to me.

 

[Jergiot]

Originally posted by old.Emma
ohh lol i love that comment..

we go around kill casters cos thats all we can do in 1.62

while infils and shades continue to kill all of mids class`s tanks/hybrids/support and casters.. mmm thats seems very balanced to me.

plz, i beg you, tell me last time u saw an infil or a ns runing up to a class and started to style them down. infils/ns actually have to land pa-->cd---> or whatever to be able to kill stuff easily. u guys really that afraid of speccing CS line? u know what a shadowzerker is? its an archer with 0 bow. its a pally with 0 chants, its a cleric with 0 rejuv. starting to get my point? the hole line thats specially made for ur class, u just ignore..

 

[thorungla]

Jergiot, your referring to one small possible spec type for SB's, the shadowzerker, almost all SB's do spec their CS line and also depend on the PA - CD chain, so please stop generalising.

 

[Jergiot]

Originally posted by thorungla
Jergiot, your referring to one small possible spec type for SB's, the shadowzerker, almost all SB's do spec their CS line and also depend on the PA - CD chain, so please stop generalising.

do u play on excal?

 

[thorungla]

do you play on Prydwen?


thats irrelevant you still generalising

 

[Jergiot]

Originally posted by thorungla
do you play on Prydwen?


thats irrelevant you still generalising

k sorry if u felt i was dissing u or whatever m8
anyway everything i wrote, im talking about sbs on excal. highest sb population of all servers? i dont know how it is on other servers. my guess is its not totally different tho.

 

[old.Normengast]

Originally posted by svartmetall
Really? You think we all can afford to run two+ accounts and all have two+ PCs permanently available on which to run them? Buffbots are IMO utterly contrary to the spirit of the game, built as DAOC is around co-operation.
If I were GOA, top of my nerf-list would be using BBs.

To solve all those problem there is an easy solution IMO: put a range on buffs (large enough so there is no problem in large scale battles). When you do this you don't need the LA nerf and all the other ones.

The problem with that solution is that 1/3th of accounts would be terminated thus meaning a great loss in money...

Flame or agree, I'm pretty sure that's what it's about.

Edit: saw Real Redi's reply to late...

 

[Talen]

It's quite intresting that *every* SB tries to motivate the current style bonuses which is like... laughable. Currently I play a so called "mercfil" which "should be" equal to a SZ right..?

My main style is Dual Shadows which currently inherits a style bonus of 0.88 and it's position-based (frontal which isn't as good as people believe at all)

Shadowblades are currently able to use a ANYTIMER which uses a style bonus of 1.25 (And sure it drains loads of end but as most assasins fight 1v1 anyway that doesn't matter much at all imo)

I also use a back style when I'm fighting called "Pierce" which currently uses a style bonus of 0.73...

At the same time Shadowblades gets access to the style called "Snowsquall" which has the style bonus of 1.54 which is roughly the double style bonus.

Then if we start checking on the reactionary styles then:


I, as a infil got the so called "I-WIN" style which has the amazing style bonus of 0.85!

They, as midgardian shadowblades get "Comeback" with the quite ridicolous (sp?) style bonus of 1.75.



As currently SBs has the same damage as I have, mostly faster then me *EVEN* though I have all 3 str relics and should gain a large advantage from that "right"?

Sure you can use the arguement that thrust is a inferior damage type vs midgardian leather and that slash is neutral vs alb leather but it doesn't work like that anyway as we are still lacking 10% damage then.


And also the current whine about LA damage cap being yadayada doesn't really matter much if you are a SZ with 40+ LA imo.
And the reason infils got 0.3 specpoints is because SBs got close to 200 hp more when buffed and that they are still able to use 2h weapons so no whine about that please.


Also serious replies to this with decent arguements. I DONT want any random whine as a answer to this. ^^


EDIT: Even SBs "that does spec" CS currently deals too much damage with their styles anyway so no I wont take that as a reply. And the crap about midgård being "melee-realm" isn't gonna cut it either ^^

 

[Nichneven]

Originally posted by Jergiot
plz, i beg you, tell me last time u saw an infil or a ns runing up to a class and started to style them down. infils/ns actually have to land pa-->cd---> or whatever to be able to kill stuff easily. u guys really that afraid of speccing CS line? u know what a shadowzerker is? its an archer with 0 bow. its a pally with 0 chants, its a cleric with 0 rejuv. starting to get my point? the hole line thats specially made for ur class, u just ignore..

After zerging around Odins/Emain I have seen on several occasions a NS going one on one with an armsman and/or a Pally and kicking the bjezus out of him/her. I didn't live long enough to see the result, but yes, I see instances of NO FEAR on the battlegrounds when it comes to certain stealther classes taking on tanks. I wouldn't dream of doing it with my own sb...

And there are a few obvious reasons why some sb's would prefer either going full LA or 5-spec..

First of all, LA gives you doublefrost. Best damn style in the entire realm imo and doesn't need and opener. Doesn't need stealth. It literally is the only thing I can counter with when an infil PA's me. The only style that gives me a slight chance of surviving having my guts penetrated and perforated. Of course with the nerf who knows what damage it will do, but I'm not whining. I, like a few others, am up for the challenge and i'm not going to delete my sb just because of a nerf.

LA imo is great in combo with CS because you get fast, moderate damage. A sb with a 1h sword is great for 1 or 2-hitting casters maybe, (hey, kudos to all who are whoopie about the 1h critblade) but I would prefer speed over power personally.

So I wouldn't say ignore CS entirely, but I don't think I would rely on it completely, either.

Blahblahblah I'm sure everything I said has been posted 5000000 times before :sleeping:

my 2 cents

:kissit:

 

[klavrynd]

1. we dont know how bad the nerf is.

There's been ample pendragon logs, take the middle road between the "nothing changed" and "omg we do 20 dmg" logs and you'll have a pretty good image of what's going to happen.

They reduced the damage enough so now the x extra specpoints you put in la is used to get more styles which do the same damage as base styles with only difference that you have an offhand that allways swings.

sbs run as soon as their class gets balanced?

comparing the class to their counterparts this is a nerf, not a balancing issue

ye, omg, sbs have to specc critical strike now, man life is unfair :[

unlike albion and hibernia, midgard does not have a weaponspec that gives an advantage to high dex (<-> pierce and thrust fyi). and speccing la implies you spec it to a high level or your damage will be gimped . Want to talk about 2handers? the only advantage a 2hander has is when using pa , which tada is a cs style

omg, sbs wont be able to beat tanks without landing cs first.

thrustfils really need to! 9s stun on what is basically an anytimer
and ns'es get WA, viper and AP

 

[klavrynd]

I, as a infil got the so called "I-WIN" style which has the amazing style bonus of 0.85!

They, as midgardian shadowblades get "Comeback" with the quite ridicolous (sp?) style bonus of 1.75.

9s stun > a bit more damage imo

and yay, let's use more growth rates, based on some guy's figures that doesnt tell how he tested it

 

[Talen]

Originally posted by klavrynd
9s stun > a bit more damage imo

and yay, let's use more growth rates, based on some guy's figures that doesnt tell how he tested it

Well first of all, the target should be immune to stun as all "SBs use the PA--->CD--->SS combo" anyways. I dont really care how the person in question reached those conclusions, I DO know that SBs outdamage me in general. So quite irrelvant reply imo Klav. ^^

 

[klavrynd]

i'd say that because they're allways buffed to the tits and you're not, but we both know that isn't true (well, on some occasions ~~)

 

[Talen]

I dont say I always play unbuffed, I dont say anything like that at all tbh. LA still has higher overall damage atm whatever you try to answer

 

[thorungla]

Regardless of what you all 'beleive' when the patch arrives and you are owning SB's regardless of their spec style and /laugh spamming them, you will see my original post is merely an honest prediction of the future of SB's and the 'stealth wars'

Again, I'm not whining as I will be perfectly happy targetting only casters from then forward when I play my SB. I dont play so much that it all gets to much for me

 

[ssera]

Originally posted by Talen
Well first of all, the target should be immune to stun as all "SBs use the PA--->CD--->SS combo" anyways. I dont really care how the person in question reached those conclusions, I DO know that SBs outdamage me in general. So quite irrelvant reply imo Klav. ^^

Sorry, but how am I immune to stun after using a PA->CD->SS combo on you? I'm assuming the "target" in your reply is me (the sb) as you're going on about how comeback is so more powerful than dragonfang...

 

[klavrynd]

he's pointing at that, when you get pa-cd off you're immume to stuns for 1 minute and therefor df doesnt do shit anymore, just like comeback/frosty , which have more damage

 

[ssera]

So when I get a pa and cd off I'M immune to stuns for 1 min???

 

[klavrynd]

no, the person that gets cd'ed is immume to stun for 1 minute