Save The Internet.

[Chronictank]

Yes I do know - been on this forum for years. The point I was making was sites like FH already require funding, therefore is not a free service per se (though I accept it is for the end user). The implication was that Internet2 would mean an end to 'free' sites. All I'm saying about the adverts is that they would have to have more to be able to afford extra costs.

Of course I could be wrong - it has been known

remeber if every ISP decided to do the same,
in order for every user to access FH, FH would have to pay every ISP a fee simply to allow their users access to the site.
Realisticly how long do you think this can go on?

 

[Calaen]

I cant see this happening to this extent, at the end of the day companies are making a decent wedge as it is, it would not benefit them in the long term.

 

[Ballard]

I cant see this happening to this extent, at the end of the day companies are making a decent wedge as it is, it would not benefit them in the long term.

Well I think they have realised the damage technology like skype can do their profits. You can see the start of their plans to lock down and control the net in their legislative approach to webcasts. Right now this proposal is before the WIPO, http://www.wipo.int/edocs/mdocs/sccr/en/sccr_14/sccr_14_2.pdf . Looks harmless enough on first read but really in essence it will be an international treaty that makes it illegal to record programs you want to watch (for personal use) like you would on a VCR.

This combined with the growth of DMCA legislation, vista data protection plans and internet2 proposals should really start to concern the ordinary consumer. Alot of the things we take for granted now are under attack.

 

[Grimnna]

Why are adverts on websites? Because they are viewed a certain amount off times each month. Because companies and Governments believe they can make money off off them.
If websites are no longer reachable for people they will be viewed less, hence they will be less interesting for companies to run adverts on, hence they will disappear if we do not pay for subscription.

If a couple of big companies and governments decide to pay for those costs to ensure that there always will be websites up, even if none of the whiners.... I mean people, that visit them on a daily bases refuse to pay for them, then that's fine with me.

If the connection will be even faster then the "old internet" that's fine with me aswell.

If people really think that on the "new" internet freedom off speech doesn't exist anymore, that's fine with me too. (I also think they are clueless, but never mind about that)

What I am trying to say is: You can look at this in a million different ways.
You can see conspiracies, you can see governments and companies finally figured out the internet is the future, you can see it as hell on earth that should be destroyed, or heaven on earth that is holy and "thou art not allowed to talk bad about", anyway... There will always be internet, there will always be freedom off speech and if it somehow disappeares from the internet we can always go back to standing on a crate at a corner of a park and talk about everything we want to talk about.

Taking away freedom off speech is like communism, to some it sounds like the perfect plan, but you won't ever be able to realise it if not 100% of the people it affects agree with it.

 

[Fana]

Why are adverts on websites? Because they are viewed a certain amount off times each month. Because companies and Governments believe they can make money off off them.
If websites are no longer reachable for people they will be viewed less, hence they will be less interesting for companies to run adverts on, hence they will disappear if we do not pay for subscription.

If a couple of big companies and governments decide to pay for those costs to ensure that there always will be websites up, even if none of the whiners.... I mean people, that visit them on a daily bases refuse to pay for them, then that's fine with me.

If the connection will be even faster then the "old internet" that's fine with me aswell.

If people really think that on the "new" internet freedom off speech doesn't exist anymore, that's fine with me too. (I also think they are clueless, but never mind about that)

What I am trying to say is: You can look at this in a million different ways.
You can see conspiracies, you can see governments and companies finally figured out the internet is the future, you can see it as hell on earth that should be destroyed, or heaven on earth that is holy and "thou art not allowed to talk bad about", anyway... There will always be internet, there will always be freedom off speech and if it somehow disappeares from the internet we can always go back to standing on a crate at a corner of a park and talk about everything we want to talk about.

Taking away freedom off speech is like communism, to some it sounds like the perfect plan, but you won't ever be able to realise it if not 100% of the people it affects agree with it.

I suggest you reread what we have been talking about, preferably also read up on the subjects at hand. "There will always be internet, there will always be freedom off speech"? Did everything discussed here go totally over your head then? The very reason for our concern is that the things you take for granted will *not* always be there. There will not always be a free internet and there will *certainly* not be any freedom of speach on Internet2.

 

[Calaen]

Take the internet away you will see alot more people outside getting some fresh air, they may even have to talk to each other face to face omg DOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!

tbh the world is full of people worrying about things, they just keep finding something to worry about. we avg 75-80? years on this planet 18 of them being controlled by your parents, the rest are all yours to do with as you please.

I choose to just get on with it, I have use the Internet and will do for aslong as I am allowed if this means that at some point half of the bollocks floating around on the net will dissapear thats a shame. However I cant see Google going anywhere so I will always have Google video to make me laugh

 

[Grimnna]

Fana,

I am sorry to talk to you, because you are obviously very busy in that world of your own, but I have to correct you on a correction you made on my last post.

I NEVER said there would always be "free" internet. I said there will always be internet.

And if you'd take a moment and at least "try" to do what you are best in wich is _reading between the lines_ then you would have seen that what I mean is: as long as not everyone agrees with the fact that there will be no freedom off speech, there will always be freedom off speech, one way or the other.

Thanks for reading, now off you go... back to your world of intrigues and dangers around every corner.

 

[Fana]

Take the internet away you will see alot more people outside getting some fresh air, they may even have to talk to each other face to face omg DOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!

tbh the world is full of people worrying about things, they just keep finding something to worry about. we avg 75-80? years on this planet 18 of them being controlled by your parents, the rest are all yours to do with as you please.

I choose to just get on with it, I have use the Internet and will do for aslong as I am allowed if this means that at some point half of the bollocks floating around on the net will dissapear thats a shame. However I cant see Google going anywhere so I will always have Google video to make me laugh

The internet will not disappear - it will be changed from a place of freedom into a controled enviroment, and using the internet is already such an ingrained habit that people will not stop using it simply because it will change. This is the danger. People will use Internet2 as they used the Internet; to look for information and exchange ideas - only in Internet2 the information will be controled by corporations and will have one purpse and one purpose only: to show information that corporations want you to see so that you become a better consumer.

Oh and you think sites such as Google and Google Video will be unaffected by the current technical and legislative development? I suggest you do a quick search on the engine in question for "google dispute" and take a look at how many disputes they are currently involved in regarding patents, copyrights, intellectual property theft etc etc.

"we avg 75-80? years on this planet 18 of them being controlled by your parents, the rest are all yours to do with as you please"

If you enjoy doing as you please you should be worried, because that is precisely what the conflict around Net Neutrality and Internet2 is about. As long as you are a member of modern society it affects you, wheter you chose to ignore it or not.

 

[tris-]

in the end you can talk about it all you want. but is it worth worrying about?

not imo. if it will happen then it will. you could worry and worry and then it will all be for no reason.

ofc you can not worry, and it may or may not happen. either way you lost out on nothing (apart from the ill effects of stress on your body )

 

[Fana]

in the end you can talk about it all you want. but is it worth worrying about?

not imo. if it will happen then it will. you could worry and worry and then it will all be for no reason.

ofc you can not worry, and it may or may not happen. either way you lost out on nothing (apart from the ill effects of stress on your body )

Im sorry Tris but that is just a crap attitude

If people did not worry, discuss and act about things that are wrong and that they believe in then the world would be a much darker place than it already is. What if people had not spoken out about slavery, womens rights, apartheid, warcrimes, human rights, rampant pollution, political persecusion etc etc, and instead said "is it really worth worrying about?"

Its true that you cannot worry yourself over everything that is wrong about teh world (and there is alot) but when something so basic as the free word and free information is threatened it is worth worrying about.

EDIT: I do ofc realize that not everyone can make these issues their main concerns, but to, as many here have done, imply that they arent something to be concerned with is simply wrong. Its ok not to have the energy to care, but do not trivialize the issues at hand.

 

[tris-]

sorry. i just dont believe me worrying and causing stress for my self will change the way the world will go.

in this age, i believe only people with status will have any effect. how do you get status, by worrying.

i dont want to worry, i dont want status. someone who is suited to it will get it

 

[Chilly]

You talk as if internet2 is a thing. It's not, its just an idea - and a pretty rubbish one so far that isnt particularly technically impressive. Do you really believe they will take away the right of a private person to register a domain name, set up some name servers and serve content from it?

This is what it sounds like a lot of you believe. Even if google does turn into some government lapdog and de-lists all the undesirables, or even turns its listing into a governments approved whitelist sorta thing - whats to stop someone from setting up another google? Google when it was first born had no advers, virtually no website (search, feeling lucky, about google were all the links pretty much) - it was utopian.

I agree all this net neutrality bollocks might get a bit too far, but there are things going on in the states that may end up prohibiting telcos from charging like they want to. I also believe this will be shot down, I already pay a connection fee to the network, do why does that mean I might have to pay more if I happened to run a company that has a website (even though they probably get charged a hell of a lot more in the first place for regular service fees).

Stop worrying about it all, the universities wont give a toss about this neutrality stuff and in the end, its the universities where all the cool shit happens. In the UK JANet is a very major network provider, they have peering arrangements with all UK ISPs, you cant force them to do anything they deem naughty unless you pass it into law.

 

[Sparx]

Prime example of ppl talking enough things will change.

The congestion charge....... majority said no to it expanding but Mr Ken said tough

So all that worrying and protesting was a waste imo, why should i worry about it knowing it aint really gonna make much difference.

Also the Bendy buses in London, ppl signing petitions to keep routemasters. and now petitions to get rid of the bendys, i work for one of the bus companies in London and i will tell you now, TfL have NO plans whatsoever to get rid of them, its cost millions to get the buses in and to do necessary work on the roads to get them implemented, so do you honestly believe that by you worrying and protesting has made a difference? i think not

So imo get on with things, work, enjoy the weekends, start a family whatever but sitting on a forum ranting about something you cant change is pointless, now i am going to go and get some lunch which i will pay for with the money i earn and enjoy it whilst thinking about what pub i will go to tonight and call my friends cause to me thats important.

rant off

 

[Sparx]

and yes i may be single minded and clouded unlike you lot who have read up on it, but shucks, i'm damn happy with no worries. Can you say that?

 

[Calaen]

OMG I Agree with Chilly great posts by Chily and Sparx though, I am sick of people that are concerned with something thinking less of me because I choose not to be bothered. I

t has fuck all to do with the government making me a Sheep I am just very happy in my life at the moment, why should I waste my time being concerened over something that does not exist. I might aswell start getting upset over the day I die its all bullshit.

 

[Sparx]

to quote the sunscreen song

The real troubles in your life are apt to be things that
never crossed your worried mind; the kind that blindside you at 4pm
on some idle Tuesday.

 

[Fana]

OMG I Agree with Chilly great posts by Chily and Sparx though, I am sick of people that are concerned with something thinking less of me because I choose not to be bothered. I

t has fuck all to do with the government making me a Sheep I am just very happy in my life at the moment, why should I waste my time being concerened over something that does not exist. I might aswell start getting upset over the day I die its all bullshit.

As ive said, you dont have to spend any energy worrying if you chose not to. That is your right. Doesnt change the fact that it is an important issue.

Why even spend the energy to post in a thread discussing a subject that you dont care about or worry about anyway?

 

[Sparx]

Internet2 will provide better and more appropriate network capabilities to support the research and educational activities of the nation's major universities. However, it is not just a faster version of today's Internet, but will function as a limited-access R&D vehicle for experimenting with

by using the wonderful google the first thing that came up for internet2 seems to me that its a research and education Intranet sort of thing not a controlling thing that seems to be blown here.

But in the interest of a debate i will research it some more when i have time

 

[Benedictine]

sorry. i just dont believe me worrying and causing stress for my self will change the way the world will go.

in this age, i believe only people with status will have any effect. how do you get status, by worrying.

i dont want to worry, i dont want status. someone who is suited to it will get it

In the interests of free speech I would defend Tris' right to trivialize important issues

 

[Calaen]

As ive said, you dont have to spend any energy worrying if you chose not to. That is your right. Doesnt change the fact that it is an important issue.

Why even spend the energy to post in a thread discussing a subject that you dont care about or worry about anyway?

Well if there was no-one posting here who isnt really bothered, we would have 17 posts in this thread 5 from you stating facts and 12 from Joor telling us how the world we live in is a hoax.

I am just trying to show you that it really isnt that bad. Shit man give me a field and a river and ill camp my ass, fuck all internet2 gonna be able to about that.

 

[Sparx]

can i come with you? i will learn the banjo

 

[Benedictine]

Well if there was no-one posting here who isnt really bothered, we would have 17 posts in this thread 5 from you stating facts and 12 from Joor telling us how the world we live in is a hoax.

I am just trying to show you that it really isnt that bad. Shit man give me a field and a river and ill camp my ass, fuck all internet2 gonna be able to about that.

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Calaen again.

 

[Calaen]

can i come with you? i will learn the banjo

Of course we could start a new world order with free speech and banjo playing.

 

[Sparx]

i'll grow a 6th finger from the radiation that the government try to hide that they dump in our river

 

[tris-]

i dont think banjos would be allowed. you might be able to use the metal strings to set up a rudementary telephone system :/

 

[Calaen]

i'll grow a 6th finger from the radiation that the government try to hide that they dump in our river

Those bastards what about the fields though wont the grass be bad aswell ffs lets just all go away :-(

 

[Benedictine]

i dont think banjos would be allowed. you might be able to use the metal strings to set up a rudementary telephone system :/

I hear they bug rudimentary telephone systems these days - I recommend 2 paper cups and some string

 

[tris-]

they could tap that too.

could use another string and attach it somewhere in the system, and take it off to a black van thats parked on the edge of the field.

cup and string phones are always tapped. you dont expect people to conduct illegal business over such a system, but its true.

 

[Grimnna]

I am just trying to show you that it really isnt that bad. Shit man give me a field and a river and ill camp my ass, fuck all internet2 gonna be able to about that.

can i come with you? i will learn the banjo

I want to come aswell, but I demand we stay untill it has at least rained once so we get a chance to dance in the rain naked... Hmmm I tried 5 times to make it sound less gay and failed so think what you want, dancing in the rain naked rox!!!

 

[Sparx]

so long as i can play the banjo, i will learn its raining men if thats suits you