Savages works as intended :E

[Sycho]

aye, zerach is hitting his damage cap on the sorc each swing.. you can tell by the consistency of his damage. take away the crits and the procs and he hits for 1238, i must admit, that is an entire fook load damage. but like i said, the sheer odds of getting that are horrible, he could have just as easily hit for 846 total over the 2 swings /shrug

Not really.

When zerach and remish assist on my merc with str relics i die faster than i would to a lv75+ mob in pve.

Not whining, just stating true facts that have happened, perhaps i should record it sometimes and show people how ridiculous it can be.

 

[Marcus75]

Yeah....nerf savages....again...
Hell a screenshot with a 46 sorc is proof enough for that.

 

[Zebolt]

Not really. cloth as cloth. and if that 46 sorc had spec af
him>banan

Are you serious? I one shotted (Yes, a very lucky crit) this lvl 46 sorc. Never done that on a lvl 50, not even a luri ^^

Lower lvl = more dmg, afaik

 

[Marcus75]

Sycho:

Its not like every savage that enters RvR can do that....its not even close.

 

[Sinnica]

Not hard to oneshot L46

 

[Sycho]

Sycho:

Its not like every savage that enters RvR can do that....its not even close.

I know.

But if they have 4.4 claws too i am sure they can hit pretty hard, never the less that dps buff needs sorting, you look at savage growth rates i posted in other thread, they are best in the game Oo

 

[Sharma]

Sycho:

Its not like every savage that enters RvR can do that....its not even close.

If savages were supposed to be "balanced" they would be on par with zerks/mercs/BMs yet they still regulary out damage all other light tanks.

Balanced? I think not.

 

[Marcus75]

I know.

But if they have 4.4 claws too i am sure they can hit pretty hard, never the less that dps buff needs sorting, you look at savage growth rates i posted in other thread, they are best in the game Oo

I wont say Ive played my savage alot in RvR cause I havnt but I got that 4.4 claw and at best so far Ive made a hit for 600ish on a caster so Its not like it happens alot to the average savage even with great items.

 

[Vindicator]

Remove the crits and the dmg is still insane compared to anything melee:ish in daoc so far.

Makes old zerks look like cliff beetle dmg tbh

And people were comparing a 6s Polearm with 0 Qui and most prob Dex/qui debuffed with a 50% Crit. Thats 1000to1 for a Polearmsman while the Savage Just hit is cap with a Quad, which with a str/con debuff + melee Relics he can do quite a bit 2 : /.

The level of the enemy isnt important really, its the fact of how much damage can actually be dealt in 1.5secs as opposed to 6s with debuffs and max 50% crits etc .

As for how he survived, an Insta inbetween 2-3 Claw hit on First Quad + a SH after first Quad and then maybe a Single Insta in between 2-3 Quad. Excellent healing Either way .

As for people trying to defend Savages ? wtf..... We all know Savages are overpowered and greatly imbalanced in both there own realm as far as tanks go and in other Realms tanks, This is Just stating the obvious and showing just 'How' Hard These mofos can hit and how fast.

And The beauty about the Savage's Quad is that 4 hits for Mistar Guard to try stop as opposed to 1 hit from say A Polearmsman who will not hit that damage every 6s anyway, 20% + str/con debuff savage shud do ^^. Throw another Savage in and Mistar Guard is gonna have a Heart attack Trying to Block Those Claws from Ripping the shit out of his buddys : /

 

[Case]

1100 damage from a savage? must be a gimp i`ve been hit for nearly double that on my theurg in under 2 seconds from 1 savage

 

[Chimaira]

Thats the problem with the savage community.

a 600 dmg hit is considered BAD for a savage
while a bm/zerk/merc hits for 600 its considered. damn I hit him 600 dmg m8s!

If u check teh screen the sorc also has good melee resist to.

Sure he might of cap there. and still its insane.

I wont hit a grey con lvl 0 mob in gothwaite for third of that dmg not even a 4th

 

[Sharma]

Heh, its the way Armsmen for example can frontload with a swing time of over 5 seconds yet savages can still do the same perhaps more in the space of about 2s. Mercs/BMs can still swing pretty bloody quick etc, but they are limited to two swings per round and do not have self DPS buffs and so on which helps for the crazy damage output saavges have.

Im guessing with catacombs another melee class will walk along into another realm, savages will get nerfed beyond belief and the new melee class will be like Savages * 10.

 

[Marcus75]

I dont consider a 600 hit bad....Ive never hit anything that high except with my bd or sb under special conditions...I think a 600 hit is very nice but its not even close to constant damage.

 

[Tareregion]

Just bodyguard the caster, Zerach will need the rest of the fight to figure out why stick+43434343 isn't working xD

 

[Ctuchik]

If savages were supposed to be "balanced" they would be on par with zerks/mercs/BMs yet they still regulary out damage all other light tanks.

Balanced? I think not.

well.. Mythic have to let u guys have something to whine at after they fixed the zerkers.. almost makes u wanna have Zerkers old dmg table back and them being FOTM huh? looking at that pic pre-nerf Zerkers aint to over powered with their 800:ish or so dmg..

u guys already fucked up the savages solo capability in pve with that whine.. wanna make it completely useless at low levels to?

but really, u guys are never happy. u always find something new to whine about. if its not zerkers its bonedancers or savanges or SM pets or warriors (yes u were whining at warriors a year or so ago) or whatnot.. give up already.... its really not helping. u cant make those that dont see theese classes as overpowered understand it, and they cant make u understand why they dont see it as such.. it doesent really matter WHAT Mythic does to a class. theres always some monkeyarse that thinks a class is overpowered.

(and yes, Minstrels ARE overpowered. but not because of the dmg it does but because of the UTILITY!) it have to MUCH of that. IMO, remove some of that utility and give it to the clerics. they need it more tbfh

 

[cougar]

gimped dmg.

this is dmg.

http://nolbypride.se/daoc/images/cougar/mid-excal/strong_dmg.JPG

 

[Sharma]

well.. Mythic have to let u guys have something to whine at after they fixed the zerkers.. almost makes u wanna have Zerkers old dmg table back and them being FOTM huh? looking at that pic pre-nerf Zerkers aint to over powered with their 800:ish or so dmg..

Ill have you know I never saw a hit over 600!

I loved my Valkyn zerk, hehe, she was fun to play.

 

[Elendar]

Just bodyguard the caster, Zerach will need the rest of the fight to figure out why stick+43434343 isn't working xD

so if our savages are so bad that they just stand there trying to hit through bg, when are you going to start winning? :x

 

[Vindicator]

(and yes, Minstrels ARE overpowered. but not because of the dmg it does but because of the UTILITY!) it have to MUCH of that. IMO, remove some of that utility and give it to the clerics. they need it more tbfh

And yes, Healers ARE overpowered Support Charc. But not because of the dmg they do but because of the UTILITY!. They have 2 much of that, so remove some of that utility and give it to the Skald or Thane, They need it More tbfh.


Couldnt Agree more Even if I did correct you on a few things ^^

 

[Elendar]

And yes, Healers ARE overpowered Support Charc. But not because of the dmg they do but because of the UTILITY!. They have 2 much of that, so remove some of that utility and give it to the Skald or Thane, They need it More tbfh.


Couldnt Agree more Even if I did correct you on a few things ^^

very true, classes with defensive abilites should definitly get aoe insta stuns and mezzes... or maybe not

 

[emma]

Savage damage is insane true. But I dont recall many people complaining about omfg xxxx pwned m3h in 1 shot before mids got the relics ;p

RELICS are what make classes seem grossly overpowered instead of overpowered. Remember that ;p

20% Melee bonus = ~34% increase in damage.

Knock off 34% from that quad hit and your under the 900 mark. Still alot of damage. But with a chance of only 4-6% it doesnt happen often.

Reminds me of the pre-LA nurf days.. Omfg Zerkers do 1000 dmg every swing.

when in fact is more like 1 in a 1000

 

[Ilum]

Ok, lets summarize the comparison. Compared to other light tank, a Savage has:

- Better damage (hits maybe 30-70% harder than other light tanks?*)
- Better defense oO
- Self end regen Oo
- Backside 6 sec stun and 2nd in chain of side-style 9 sec stun oO
- Access to every damage type in the same spec Oo
- No prevent flight (buu fucking huu with a 6 sec back side stun and self end shout)

* The damage difference is a bit situational - for example, a Savage can hit very hard even unstyled, while other light tanks need good styles to do damage. Savage styles also have the best growth rate in the game, but as they hit 1-4 times, they're not that reliant on mainhand damage.

30% would be hitting for 650 dmg where a Merc/Zerk/BM would hit for 500.
70% would be hitting for 850 where a Merc/Zerk/BM would hit for 500.

Balanced?

 

[Driwen]

havent played the game a few months before toa arrived, but before that kept track of numbers on savages. For one their base damage (without their self buffs and no style damage) is actually balanced, their styles growthrates arent weird so they dont do more damage there either.
Also damage comparence with styles before 1.65 showed that without self buffs savage will do less damage than a zerker. Now their self buffs put them infront, but thats what they are supposed to do probably not by the margine it is doing now though. Anyway just saying that unless the stuff around savages has changed between 1.65 and now that the buffs is where you should be looking for at as the rest seemed to be ok.

Ow and pre nerf zerkers could do upto 1600 damage and that is before stat cap was removed and toa and that would be something they would hit close to alot more consistent than a savage will (as 1600 takes a quad hit which has 5% chance on happening vs zerker just going into rat mode and getting lucky with the crit, which a savage still has to be besides quad hitting). If a savage hits with a quad hit for 1600 his average damage would be 640 and a zerk would swing what two times slower at most, so dont make it sound like savages are more horrible as 1.60 zerkers as they arent.

 

[Dracus]

I hit a L50 sorc for 917 with my zerk with ragnarok :touch: nerf meeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

oh and delete all savages

/Dracus

 

[Leleith]

but really, u guys are never happy. u always find something new to whine about. if its not zerkers its bonedancers or savanges or SM pets or warriors (yes u were whining at warriors a year or so ago) or whatnot.. give up already.... its really not helping. u cant make those that dont see theese classes as overpowered understand it, and they cant make u understand why they dont see it as such.. it doesent really matter WHAT Mythic does to a class. theres always some monkeyarse that thinks a class is overpowered.

Play the banjo for us, Billy-Bob!

How about trying to understand that "some monkeyarse" really means 2 full realms, and big parts of midgard as well for that matters (the ones who DONT play the banjo that is)


"u cant make those that dont see theese classes as overpowered understand it, and they cant make u understand why they dont see it as such.." - forthewin, as they say

 

[Tomtefan]

Ok, lets summarize the comparison. Compared to other light tank, a Savage has:

- Better damage (hits maybe 30-70% harder than other light tanks?*)
- Better defense oO
- Self end regen Oo
- Backside 6 sec stun and 2nd in chain of side-style 9 sec stun oO
- Access to every damage type in the same spec Oo
- No prevent flight (buu fucking huu with a 6 sec back side stun and self end shout)

* The damage difference is a bit situational - for example, a Savage can hit very hard even unstyled, while other light tanks need good styles to do damage. Savage styles also have the best growth rate in the game, but as they hit 1-4 times, they're not that reliant on mainhand damage.

30% would be hitting for 650 dmg where a Merc/Zerk/BM would hit for 500.
70% would be hitting for 850 where a Merc/Zerk/BM would hit for 500.

Balanced?

Clan's call sure as hell aint 6s Ilum, I can assure you about that... Unless I'm mistaken it should be 4s stun

And nah, light tanks dont need to use "good" styles in order to deal decent damage... Normal light tanks have *one* slight advantage compared to savages, they have a predictable damage output. When as a savage you could (theoretically) land only single hits throughout a entire fight and then even with the DPS/haste shouts you wont outdamage any merc/zerker/BM which is worth their salt. :l

They have access to 2 damage types so yeah they are better then your average tank from that part but they dont have access to *all* as that would include crush damage as well which they cant get from speccing h2h.

My personal opinion (which I have already stated about savages in a excal RvR discussion thread) about savages is this anyway:

The problem with savages is their *potential* damage. No other melee class in the game can deal the same amount of damage in one blow (did 1300 without critting with my pvp savage pre-toa and that's more then all other classes can dream of). Those hp-draining shouts aren't really a problem either if you play with decent people (and seriously how hard is it to heal/SH the damage once the shouts fade)..?

The added DPS shout also adds to the *potential* damage by quite alot if you compare to regular tanks, sure savages get lower WS but that doesn't matter against lowaf classes (hi casters). Think my savage has 1640 pre-toa equipment etc at rr4. Also the set of styles in h2h is probably the best styles within daoc for RvRing overall. We got side chain with 9s stun + sweet style damage, we have 4s back stun with a worthless followup, we got 3 style evade chain which isn't really usable for RvR except when you decide to try to kill a tank which attacks you and the 3 style parry chain which is the same as the evade chain.

The shouts makes the savage close to impossible to slay by normal melee means except if all the healers are interrupted (hi situational savage using correct resists and keeping himself around 50~% resists)...

Savages in assisttrains should (imo) aim for a no-qui template and not use dex/qui in RvR. The potential frontload damage would be worth losing those 120~WS which the dex/qui adds. And of course avoid using haste shout as you should really be able to oneshot something with 2 (3 savages if you kick out the skald) which uses 19~DPS 4.4+4.0 (depending on what template they use) which run around without any qui.

So even if the savage has the lowest APR among the dualwielding classes it is still superior due to having the possibility to deal those awesome blows every now and then and mostly having better style bonuses/higher dps. I often find myself dealing almost the same damage as the 2 BMs which I play with on camlann as they assist on one target and I go for another target.

(You could always scream that they are gimped or something but there isn't anything which says that savages aren't the easymode™ of DAoC even with the addition of bodyguard/grapple).

The greatest problem about savages have and will always be their potential damage. The DPS shout (as I said earlier) makes all the difference in order to provide a superior damage output when combined with the potential quad hits. (Even if they have inferior weaponskill compared to other tanks they are still *far* better then any other realm counterpart).

 

[SevenSins]

Fake.

A 46 sorc won't have that much HP, so I'm sure he styled 1st hit, then (since he attacks at 1.5s speed) had a tiny lagspike, and hits again (dual, unstyled) while in that tiny lagspike the sorc got spreadhealed.

Same with the 2nd figure, imo.

 

[Shike]

but really, u guys are never happy. u always find something new to whine about. if its not zerkers its bonedancers or savanges or SM pets or warriors (yes u were whining at warriors a year or so ago) or whatnot.. give up already.... its really not helping. u cant make those that dont see theese classes as overpowered understand it, and they cant make u understand why they dont see it as such.. it doesent really matter WHAT Mythic does to a class. theres always some monkeyarse that thinks a class is overpowered.

(and yes, Minstrels ARE overpowered. but not because of the dmg it does but because of the UTILITY!) it have to MUCH of that. IMO, remove some of that utility and give it to the clerics. they need it more tbfh

hmm, ok..

1st of all, old Zerkers was grossly overpowered and was in serious need of an adjustment. (i however dont agree with what they did to SBs at the same time). 2 Zerkers on assist was near impossible to heal against nomatter what you did.

2nd of all, BDs is a caster with his own healers and an instaLT, no other caster has the same possibility to co-exist in a tankgrp as a BD has. The damageoutput of a BD LTing+Nuking at same time is just nuts. You think this is allright? When no other realm has something even remotely close to what the BD is? A good BD can interrupt 3 ppl on his own if he knows what he's doing. He doesnt bother with interrupts at all thanks to his instaLT. As some of you know interrupts is the normal casters worst nightmare.

3rd of all, I agree with Mincers, they are actually abit overpowered altho not really because of what they can do in a group, its because of the impact they have on the stealtherwars, other than that they are perfectly fine imho.

Mael's setup atm with 3 healers, 2 savages, 1 BD, 1 shaman and a skald is quite possibly the strongest setup i've seen so far in DAoC.

 

[Archeon]

They have access to 2 damage types so yeah they are better then your average tank from that part but they dont have access to *all* as that would include crush damage as well which they cant get from speccing h2h.

Savages can spec hammer (crush) remember. Yes its not done very often - if at all, but its still an option for them should they choose it

 

[Tareregion]

so if our savages are so bad that they just stand there trying to hit through bg, when are you going to start winning? :x

as soon as your healers quit the interrupt spam :x We can't do shit being interrupted all the time, Zerach just gets rezzed and sticks some caster waiting for BG to drop.