Savages nerfed finaly?

[mordia]

Originally posted by Solid
wow Mordia has uber between the lines reading skillz, cos to go from what cleeve said to her/his intepretation is brave.

oh really?

 

[mark-]

Not buggered off on your round the world trip yet Solid?

 

[mordia]

Is that your own teddy on your avatar Mark??!

 

[mark-]

Yes :x

 

[Ottar]

> WHEN ACTIVE GROUP RA's ARE DOWN

Exactly. And what if they're not? My overpowered savage does 40ish per hit on bofed alb chain. 80ish on -cloth-. Ask PE how many fights have they lost last month or so, when they've had actives up.

> Personally I think Savages needed the toning down they have got so far

Savages -were- overpowered in solo. I can buff up, wait for ip/purge and hastener myself to odins. Then get 2-3 stealthers on me and usually kill 1-2 before I die. Or if I manage to get jump on people, take down 1 caster in a random group before they manage to kill me. Can pull crazy stunts that way with some luck and maneuvering.

In gankgroups, against random groups, doesnt matter if youre a savage or a warrior. Against random groups wit actives up, you pretty much need a gankroup or a zerg to deal with. Against enemy gankgroups, again, doesnt matter much as youre likely to die anyhow.

So now, solo savage is dead. 2h savage is dead. h2h savage is still viable as far as damage output goes provided he gets constant healing as that damage output depends on at least 2 selfbuffs being up.

Ottar

 

[ilum]

Originally posted by Nonnier


a savage can kill a healer in about 2 secs, warriors can't unless they get a good crit

Ok...........................

If mids judge RvR viability for damage dealing tank as their ability to kill a healer in "about 2 sec without good crits" it's a sign that they aren't really as badly situated as they may think they are........

 

[Solid]

Originally posted by mark-
Not buggered off on your round the world trip yet Solid?

Not yet, need to get more skills from work so I can come back to a Job (My company wont gimme 8 months off until I have been with them for 5 years).

So getting a motorbike instead and doing Euro tour in summer.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by Solid
A Healer is no more overpowered than ti was back in 1.36 Retail day 1. I dont recall people crying for Healer nerfs back in 1.36, so why call for them now?

Are you kidding Solid? The chain ae stun nerf cries were deafening. People have always weanted healers nerfed, particularly other CC classes given the huge amount of CC in pac compared to anything else.

 

[Ottar]

> If mids judge RvR viability for damage dealing tank as their
> ability to kill a healer in "about 2 sec without good crits

That 2s thing is nonsense of course. Theoretically possible with 2 tanks assisting. Then again, fight at mmg today. Took me and Bibi about 1.5 minute to kill off 1 bloody cleric. Thats 90 seconds, not 2. Reapllied selfbuffs three times and were out again when that bastard finally died. Was against BoF and second cleric healing of course. Another extreme there but that one from real action, not from wet dream.

Ottar

 

[scarffs]

Originally posted by old.Atrox
lol

Ye cry on mids, poor you getting so nerfed all the time!!!

missed the boost to 2 of your classes ? oh they were gimped so the boost were needed, hmm same applies to the boosted alb classes...

and please before you cry "im gonna quit" "mid will be useless" read the damn patch note.
H2H - No changes in dmg, Fixed Quad rate. No Nerf
2H - Nerfed Dmg, so this means that there will be more H2H savages, and they hurt more.

Shouts - Halved Duration and Cost. Fixed the hp Cost. No Nerf
Taunt - You only have it so that you can Range Pull in PvE. So you lost the abilitie to instant interupt casters/healers boho.... and in Group PvE, Agro should be dealt with by useing Taunt -Styles-. So no nerf.

If thats what you call a nerf you gotta be new to Daoc.

Get your head out of your arse.

1. Duration halved = more button pushing and h2h savages push a lot of them. In addition, we lose hp after 15 secs of a fight = nerf.
2. Hp loss now is taken from max hp, you conveniently forgot to mention this. Instead of 9% from 1300 its from 2200 = 200hp per buff.
3. So what 'it wasnt meant to be ?' interrupt ? Itw as there and not anymore = nerf. Paladins and friars still have it.
4. Two hand savages are gone, destroyed, barred from existence.
Did it ever occur to you people liked them even if less powerful in your eyes ? = Nerf

Moron.

 

[Cybwyn]

Originally posted by scarffs
Paladins and friars still have it.

Taken from this week's 'Grab Bag'

---------------------------------------------

Q: I noticed on the recent patch notes that savages had their insta-taunt turned into a castable one, presumably to remove their ability to insta-taunt enemy casters while moving. However, I didn’t see where the Friar and Paladin version of the insta-taunt was removed. Was this an oversight?

A: Not at all. The savage was the only class in the game that had both insta-taunt AND tank Ras such as Determination, and the combination was a little unfair.

Here's a quote from our Balance Producer (whose Team Lead program is responsible for many of the class balance suggestions we implemented in 1.65):

“Savages, Friars, and Paladins all had the ability to insta-interrupt casters at range (as do others who either do damage or a form of CC with their instas). This ability is on a 30 second timer and is most often used at the start of the battle to help these classes have a better chance of getting into melee range without being mezzed, stunned, or rooted. The problem wasn’t with the interrupt itself, but with the fact that the Savage was the only class in the game that had both the insta-taunt AND access to tank Realm Abilities.(Determination, Purge, etc at a reduced cost). Given the choice between removing determination and other RA from the savage, or removing the insta-taunt ability, we felt that the making a change to the insta-taunt would be much less disruptive to the players of that class.”

---------------------------------------------

Sounds fair to me.

 

[dozigden]

Grab bag pretty much implies tank RAs are here to stay on savage too imo - else there wouldnt have been a question of RAs or Insta taunt.

I still think they should have just made it non-interupt.

Looks to me like Midgard, the combat realm, will be keeping the extra tank with tank RAs.

 

[Ottar]

> Get your head out of your arse.

You sure he has one? Head I mean. As anatomically improbable as it may sound, general impression so far is that arse is pretty mych what he consists of. Good thing there is of course that lack of reproductive organs also guarantees he will remain one of a kind.

Ottar

 

[Groborthir]

Originally posted by dozigden
Grab bag pretty much implies tank RAs are here to stay on savage too imo - else there wouldnt have been a question of RAs or Insta taunt.

I still think they should have just made it non-interupt.

Looks to me like Midgard, the combat realm, will be keeping the extra tank with tank RAs.

I'd still very much like to see Mythic's official statement that Midgard is the [assuming you mean melee] combat realm of the three.

If this is the the case we're assuming Hibernia is the caster realm. Why then do SM's have higher damage PBAoE, to take an example. Why do Midgard has the strongest PBAoE and on top of that AoE stun, which together is a pretty solid caster combo.

And where does Albion fit in this? If Hibernia is caster and Midgard is melee, Albion must in the nature of it all be one huge swamp of mediocracy, of casters at sub par with both realms, of tanks at sub par with both realms. I don't believe this is the case, at all.

What I mean is that with a 3 realm game, distributing two elements between those 3 will lead to one being very bad.

No, I'd rather have balance and not split the game in melee vs. spells, but with realm specific tools combat vs. realm specific tools of combat.

That's why I don't think Midgard should have a tank more than another, so put them on hybrid table like the reaver and the valewalker. This is completely unfair.

 

[lannovar]

Referring back to the orignal post, savages shouldnt be too upset, they've got at least another 6months of rp farming before GOA gets 1.65 up and running over here

 

[chretien]

I always got the feeling that Hibernia was the magic realm, Midgard was the offensive (in many ways!) realm and Albion was the most defensive.
So Hib get a lot of magic on most classes (not neccessarily the most powerful nukers), Midgard dish out damage in melee (Trolls, Savages, more hybrid melee, than pure casters) and Albion soak it (plate armour, a lot of healing spread across several classes including cloth casters).
Obviously while this may have been the original intention, subsequent tweaks have diluted it a bit.

 

[scarffs]

Originally posted by Cybwyn
Taken from this week's 'Grab Bag'

---------------------------------------------

Q: I noticed on the recent patch notes that savages had their insta-taunt turned into a castable one, presumably to remove their ability to insta-taunt enemy casters while moving. However, I didn’t see where the Friar and Paladin version of the insta-taunt was removed. Was this an oversight?

A: Not at all. The savage was the only class in the game that had both insta-taunt AND tank Ras such as Determination, and the combination was a little unfair.

Here's a quote from our Balance Producer (whose Team Lead program is responsible for many of the class balance suggestions we implemented in 1.65):

“Savages, Friars, and Paladins all had the ability to insta-interrupt casters at range (as do others who either do damage or a form of CC with their instas). This ability is on a 30 second timer and is most often used at the start of the battle to help these classes have a better chance of getting into melee range without being mezzed, stunned, or rooted. The problem wasn’t with the interrupt itself, but with the fact that the Savage was the only class in the game that had both the insta-taunt AND access to tank Realm Abilities.(Determination, Purge, etc at a reduced cost). Given the choice between removing determination and other RA from the savage, or removing the insta-taunt ability, we felt that the making a change to the insta-taunt would be much less disruptive to the players of that class.”

---------------------------------------------

Sounds fair to me.

I dont care about the interrupt being gone, but the argument is somewhat idiotic.
Paladins are the only tank class with end regen, lets remove it.
Minstrels are the only chain wearing class with stealth, lets remove it.
Friars are the only healing class who hit harder then a tank, lets make their staff unspeccable.
Etc..

 

[scarffs]

Originally posted by lannovar
Referring back to the orignal post, savages shouldnt be too upset, they've got at least another 6months of rp farming before GOA gets 1.65 up and running over here

Not so cool playing a toon you know gets nerfed soon.
Kinda takes the magic away.

 

[unit]

Originally posted by Groborthir
That's why I don't think Midgard should have a tank more than another, so put them on hybrid table like the reaver and the valewalker. This is completely unfair.

Albion have 4 mage classes. Midgard have 2.(Not including bd´s and necro´s.)
Albion have 14 classes including si ones.
Midgard 12.
plz do explain how u think? cuz then i would want 2 more classes to midgard.

 

[Groborthir]

Originally posted by unit
Albion have 4 mage classes. Midgard have 2.(Not including bd´s and necro´s.)
Albion have 14 classes including si ones.
Midgard 12.
plz do explain how u think? cuz then i would want 2 more classes to midgard.

Of course Midgard should have the same range of variable characters to choose from as Albion. It works both ways. Hibernia, who has 13 classes, should also have the same amount of choices that the other two realms have.

My criticism wasn't on the fact that one realm should or shouldn't have more classes than another, my criticism was aimed at the separation of realms into "magic realm" and "melee realm", which will either make the third realm terribly mediocre or terribly overpowered.

And thirdly, I don't know if you noticed, but more and more caster classes are becoming concerned with the way they are slowly being pushed out of the game due to the current resists situation, the tank RA's and the amount of instants a tank group can utilize. Throwing in another tank to the game, like the savage who can quad hit and I don't know what, only strengthens this concern amongst casters, because only tank groups can compete properly and on even terms with other tank groups. I think that's a sad development of the game.

So that's why I want the savage on hybrid terms.

 

[leviathane]

this post reminds me of when all the zerkers were moaning bout being nerfed and said tht they would all leave.. then they moved onto savages...wounder what the next fotm char will be

 

[old.Morchaoron]

Originally posted by scarffs
I dont care about the interrupt being gone, but the argument is somewhat idiotic.
Paladins are the only tank class with end regen, lets remove it.
Minstrels are the only chain wearing class with stealth, lets remove it.
Friars are the only healing class who hit harder then a tank, lets make their staff unspeccable.
Etc..

bullshit, its the combination, not cuz he's 'the only one of his kind who has it'

so its not as 'idiotic' as you want to make it sound...

A: Not at all. The savage was the only class in the game that had both insta-taunt AND tank Ras such as Determination, and the combination was a little unfair.

 

[gudrex]

Originally posted by scarffs
Not so cool playing a toon you know gets nerfed soon.
Kinda takes the magic away.

That kinda excludes every class in mid then

 

[Groborthir]

Originally posted by gudrex
That kinda excludes every class in mid then

Except thanes

 

[umilard]

Skalds have no role except speedbot? Afaik skalds also have a big weapon to bash in casterskulls with, and dds aswell.. And last time i checked they had a group damageadd chant..

Shamans have no role except endbot? Imo, go watch Midget Mafias RvR-movie, then come back and say that shamans are endbots..

And as for savages, they are way overpowered compared to any other tank in the game, period.


Imo, remove determination, remove all insta AE cc, remove sos+bof+baod+ichor+pr.. reduce duration on mezz all around and then balance the realms.

And while they are at it, nerf buffbots. (will not happen but one can always dream)

 

[caiuga]

When 1 sav/heal grp can take out 5 fg's alb something is very wrong, thats my opinion about the Issue, to bad the nerf isnt before patch, thats to late in my opinion, all you savages will be RR8-10 by then.

 

[scarffs]

Pfff one cleric/any alb tank group can do the same nps.
Not saying this is normal, but it happens to everyone you know.

 

[Graknak]

Now be honest, your healers either stun or mezz albs while we albs can't do the same (with the same kind of group setup), tbh Savage ain't the problem, but Healers are >< or the lack of alb clerics having some sort of usefull aoe cc instead of pbaoe mezz ><

 

[Solid]

take away healers insta AE cc if ya want, but then think up a group RA that is on par with hibs GP or BAoD or albs BoF and SoS and give it to Healers. Oh and IF you think of some way to remove Insta AE CC and give healers adequate compensation via group RA's then you can remove bolt range from sorc mezz and the mezz reduction buff too.

Sound fair?

 

[zapzap]

Originally posted by Solid
take away healers insta AE cc if ya want, but then think up a group RA that is on par with hibs GP or BAoD or albs BoF and SoS and give it to Healers. Oh and IF you think of some way to remove Insta AE CC and give healers adequate compensation via group RA's then you can remove bolt range from sorc mezz and the mezz reduction buff too.

Sound fair?

Sounds nice to me