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destic
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- #31
Everyone got 2 useful SI classes, in their own way... doesnt mean now they have given them 2 new classes its just more targets to shoot 'nerfs' at..
- Destic
- Destic
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Shike
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- #32
the echoes on BW's is awfully slow it seems, think I heard this one when 1.62 came out.
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Roo Stercogburn
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- #33
Shike, I know a lot of peeps that simply stopped playing the game when 1.62 hit, or moved to other servers/realms to wait out to see if Mid gets anything back for some of the things dealt out.
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chretien
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- #34
No it's just Damon. He has two macros set up:
/macro whine /PostOnBW OMFG!!!! Mythic hate Midgard and we can't pwn anymore!!!
and also /macro flame /PostOnBW You're a moron!!!
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Ottar
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- #35
> the echoes on BW's is awfully slow it seems, think I heard this
> one when 1.62 came out
Yes, populations have inertia and these things happen slowly. But they do happen. As it is today, berserkers are pretty much gone from RvR scene. From a glance, rarer now or as rare as thanes are. Some left the game. Some stayed and rerolled. Of those that rerolled, people played their new classes about and left anyhow. We lost quite alot of people. Not 30%-50% sure. Then again, current active rvr savage population is more numerous than zerkers were pre 1.62..
Depends really on how much the h2h nerf was. Yet to see the numbers. If it brings savage dps down below that of a warrior, I very much doubt Im going to reroll.
Ottar
> one when 1.62 came out
Yes, populations have inertia and these things happen slowly. But they do happen. As it is today, berserkers are pretty much gone from RvR scene. From a glance, rarer now or as rare as thanes are. Some left the game. Some stayed and rerolled. Of those that rerolled, people played their new classes about and left anyhow. We lost quite alot of people. Not 30%-50% sure. Then again, current active rvr savage population is more numerous than zerkers were pre 1.62..
Depends really on how much the h2h nerf was. Yet to see the numbers. If it brings savage dps down below that of a warrior, I very much doubt Im going to reroll.
Ottar
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zapzap
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- #36
Lots of left.
But is more noticible on US servers 7 mid servers got free lvl 30.
Maybe US servers have less good players on mid (doubt it )
but try look up who gets most RPs as a realm over there.
Last i looked 1 server had mid has NO1
9/29/2003
Albion
34% of total realm points
# servers in 1st place: 5
# servers in 2nd place: 3
# servers in 3rd place: 5
Hibernia
33% of total realm points
# servers in 1st place: 7
# servers in 2nd place: 4
# servers in 3rd place: 2
Midgard
32% of total realm points
# servers in 1st place: 1
# servers in 2nd place: 6
# servers in 3rd place: 6
Numbers not all still say something
Zapsi
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Shanaia
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- #37
So funny to see all the mids claim how they always get nerfed ... but they never look at how overpowered they are atm.
Mid have 2 of the most powerfull RvR classes imo.
Blabla a bd goes down easily against a fullgroup when you mezz their pets... if the fg is unlucky the BD actually takes one down with him before getting ganked. Where is the balance when a single class can take on any other class and win 9 out of 10 times.
Blabla they'll nerf savages. Bottemline is till that nerf a 5 savage/3 healer group is damn near unbeatable.
Mid have 2 of the most powerfull RvR classes imo.
Blabla a bd goes down easily against a fullgroup when you mezz their pets... if the fg is unlucky the BD actually takes one down with him before getting ganked. Where is the balance when a single class can take on any other class and win 9 out of 10 times.
Blabla they'll nerf savages. Bottemline is till that nerf a 5 savage/3 healer group is damn near unbeatable.
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zapzap
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- #38
Iam all for putting damage on same table in all realms.
But then RAs need a serious remaking.
If mids suppose to do samage damage in mele as other realms then why dont mids get nice RA like BOF SOS BAOD and GP all coz we have aoe stun that last 5 sec on none tanks ?
Zapsi
But then RAs need a serious remaking.
If mids suppose to do samage damage in mele as other realms then why dont mids get nice RA like BOF SOS BAOD and GP all coz we have aoe stun that last 5 sec on none tanks ?
Zapsi
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old.Atrox
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- #39
lol
Ye cry on mids, poor you getting so nerfed all the time!!!
missed the boost to 2 of your classes ? oh they were gimped so the boost were needed, hmm same applies to the boosted alb classes...
and please before you cry "im gonna quit" "mid will be useless" read the damn patch note.
H2H - No changes in dmg, Fixed Quad rate. No Nerf
2H - Nerfed Dmg, so this means that there will be more H2H savages, and they hurt more.
Shouts - Halved Duration and Cost. Fixed the hp Cost. No Nerf
Taunt - You only have it so that you can Range Pull in PvE. So you lost the abilitie to instant interupt casters/healers boho.... and in Group PvE, Agro should be dealt with by useing Taunt -Styles-. So no nerf.
If thats what you call a nerf you gotta be new to Daoc.
Ye cry on mids, poor you getting so nerfed all the time!!!
missed the boost to 2 of your classes ? oh they were gimped so the boost were needed, hmm same applies to the boosted alb classes...
and please before you cry "im gonna quit" "mid will be useless" read the damn patch note.
H2H - No changes in dmg, Fixed Quad rate. No Nerf
2H - Nerfed Dmg, so this means that there will be more H2H savages, and they hurt more.
Shouts - Halved Duration and Cost. Fixed the hp Cost. No Nerf
Taunt - You only have it so that you can Range Pull in PvE. So you lost the abilitie to instant interupt casters/healers boho.... and in Group PvE, Agro should be dealt with by useing Taunt -Styles-. So no nerf.
If thats what you call a nerf you gotta be new to Daoc.
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Hyuga Hinata
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- #40
Actually they did nerf the shouts, since they now consume 5% of the buffed HP's and not the base ones effectively raising the cost in HP since they last shorter and consume more. Not to mention that they will be hell so solo in PvE when there's no groups around, as if they weren't hard enough with the old HP costs.
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Cami
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- #41
Its funny to see how albs add another savage each whine thread
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Hyuga Hinata
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- #42
You know, if your groups get caught be a Mach0 Savage group then you deserve to die. Not to mention they apparently have no Shammy meaning no end regen.
Originally posted by Cami
Its funny to see how albs add another savage each whine thread
They seem to remove Skalds and Shammys from the group setups a lot aswell. Guess speed and spec buffs isn't vey important in RvR then.
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Larssi
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- #43
Hi, you're beeing so polite and smart. I tought I'd see what kinda flame you can throw at me for replying to you...
Thane problems are all in RvR. There's zero problem in PvE. All fixes they and "loving" they had help them in PvE. Close to zero help for the area they feel their real problems lie. Ok?
Skalds got a little helping hand. It is a start. Ok?
Savage shouts. You're atleast second non midgard person who succeeds to read the part: duration halved, cost halved. But fails to read the part where it says that cost now is calculated from real max hps not naked base hps.
As I understand this is: If a savage person XYZ has 1000hp naked, unbuffed and has 2000hp geared and buffed and a shout will "cost" him 10% health of his max it will cost him 200hp now instead of 100hp. If the selfbuff used to last 30sec for 100hp it now lasts 15sec for 200hp or twice applied 30sec for 400hp. Even if we forget that hp cost is calculated otherways, in order for the savage to keep that one selfbuff up for 30secs like it used to it would cost him 200hp (2x100hp) instead of the 100hp. Shouts don't cost more according to what math?
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Larssi
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- #44
Well the real effects of this patch and "nerf" are yet to seen, but lets say assume that savages get smacked real hard and folks playing them quit. More people disapear to the zerger road. And some who stay go out and make warriors.
Are you going to be asking for nerf to warriors next then when you meet warrior assist gank squads in the battlefield? Do you really think you gonna live a lot longer when instead of troll savage you got a troll warrior wielding huge 2hander coming for you with his buddies? If you used to live for 2secs, think you'll be winning if you live for 3?
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old.Atrox
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- #45
&
If you read what I wrote about that, you should've noticed the "Fixed the hp Cost".
It was meant to cost 9%hp when you use the highest Shouts, due to a "bug"(or lazyness from Mythic) it didnt, they fixed that "bug".
a "Fix" isnt a nerf, that would be like saying Necros got "nerfed" due to the LoS fix ( they were only "overpowerd" due to a bug, the class were as gimped pre LoS fix as they are today ).
And Larssi the changes Thanes Stormcalling is an attempt to make it more viable in RvR aswell as in PvE, but I agree those boosts arent enough.
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Larssi
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- #46
Ok, my bad
I would just like to state that I think one could call it a nerf to the shouts if the cost is still doubled after that "fix". Doubled cost comes from halved duration meaning you have to pay the cost twice in order to have the effect for same duration.Thane boosts are a start indeed. Shame to see people post like they were huge thing though as it only is a start. I don't think thanes really wished for more help in PvE side
Anyways, the real effects of the patch remain to be seen. I agree myself that savages had to be looked at. But at same time I just hope Mythic won't over do it, like so many feel they did for LA so recently ...
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ssera
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- #47
agree completely.
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Larssi
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- #48
After having my first dozen cups of coffee for the day I am starting to see error's in my calculation of hp usage with savage shouts, I have made a decision off leaving all matemathical calculations to other people for now If cost and duration are both halved it's not making cost doubled for shout renewals. Only raise is coming from the new way of calculating the max hps.
Now that I've messed up talking about one thing, I'd like to have a stab at messing up again (like a good BW person):
Tank only RA determination would only cause gank groups made of arms/hero/warrior's come about and deminish the light/hybrids as long as game is very much centered around CC. CC has too big part, cut down the significanse and make fights longer. How is beyond me, but as long as Mythic ain't paying my paychecks it can remain so
If cost and duration are both halved it's not making cost doubled for shout renewals. Only raise is coming from the new way of calculating the max hps.Now that I've messed up talking about one thing, I'd like to have a stab at messing up again (like a good BW person):
Tank only RA determination would only cause gank groups made of arms/hero/warrior's come about and deminish the light/hybrids as long as game is very much centered around CC. CC has too big part, cut down the significanse and make fights longer. How is beyond me, but as long as Mythic ain't paying my paychecks it can remain so
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cleeve
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- #49
I seriously hope that you're joking over gimped tank classes.
The warrior can spec Both Shield and Weapon of choice to 50 and then become a hybrid with respectable parry and higher ws than any other tank class in the game. This is GIMPED???
Mid is gimped now because people think warriors aren't uber. I have a warrior and whilst I am not lvl 50 or high rr - there is no way that he isn't as good as (if not better) than an armsmen. I dunno about heroes- some people think heroes are the best tank class, I personally think that they lack the versatility of a warrior. Heroes suffer if they go hybrid, whereas warriors can be offensive or defenensive as the situation requires.
Zerkers whilst not as uber as before and sorely missing positionals are still a valid class in rvr, I just feel for the poor zerkers who can't get a group due to the uberness of the savage right now.
I think the savage is damaging mid more than its helping atm. Yes they are a nice class - but experienced mid players are quitting cos they can't get a group due to the uberness of the savage class. How many savages will persevere with the class when it has been nerfed?
This could leave mid with fewer experienced tanks when the 'fotm' savages quit to find the next ubar class ***
The more warriors we get the better imo, they are a nice solid tank class, they might not have anything amazing about them, but they work very well in a group and their damage output is not to be sneezed at. This coupled with higher ws should result in fewer attacks blocked/parried.
Cheers
Cleeve (alb pally on excal, Isquish people troll noobie warrior on mid pryd)
*** please note - I DON'T think all savages are fotm uber class seekers, I am sure some will try and persevere with the class, but I do think many of them will just quit, leaving the realm with fewer high rr zerkers/warriors (who left cos they couldn't get a rvr group) and fewer high rr savages (cos they aren't uber anymore)
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unit
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- #50
So sad for albs, they never get any overpowered classes so they just keep on whining.
Go ahead flame me.
Go ahead flame me.
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Solid
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- #51
Well Mid gank groups pre 1.65 have consisted of a Token Speed Bot skald, token End Bot Shaman, 2 healers and then 4 Savages.
post 1.65 Savages will still be the best Gank Squad tank in Mid due to higher damage output, better melee defence and Pure Tank RA's.
Still leaves Skalds as a speed bot, Thanes at the forge, shamans as end bots, RM as a PBT bot (self debuffers across the board have been nerfed now).
The only alternative ank squad is the MM style SM/Healer BoomBoom groups.
Still leaves the followign classes eitehr without a group or without a defined role beyond speed/end.
Skald
Thane
Shaman
Hunter
Warrior
Beserker
Liek I keep saying, MIDGARD as a whole is nowhere near overpowered, but select elite classes in Mid when combined work more efficiently than their Alb/Hib counterparts WHEN ACTIVE GROUP RA's ARE DOWN.
The Healer ahs hardly had ANY changes from release, nothign ahs been done to make them overpowered, in fact over time their PAC line has felt the harshest performance hit through Spellcrafting, Resist buffs and RA's.
A Healer is no more overpowered than ti was back in 1.36 Retail day 1. I dont recall people crying for Healer nerfs back in 1.36, so why call for them now?
Savage/SM Gank groups make healers look good when in fact they hav noe chanegd over time.
Personally I think Savages needed the toning down they have got so far, and as long as it stops here thats fine. they will STILL be the premieer tank choice for Mid gank groups post 1.65 so no real grounds to complain on, at least no more so than the less well off Mid tanks.
On the Classic weapon weaponskill nerf, I dotn think it should have been done tbh, ALL Pure Melee classes are on a Tank hp/ws table and have no power bar, to single out Savages as a unique case is deviatign from logn standing game mechanics.
TB If they can fix the resists situation in the game, then I see no reason why Hybrid Melee tanks (Skald, Thane, Champ, Reaver, Paladin, Valewalker) cannot be on Tank RA/HP tables but haev Hybrid Weaponskill tables like Savages.
post 1.65 Savages will still be the best Gank Squad tank in Mid due to higher damage output, better melee defence and Pure Tank RA's.
Still leaves Skalds as a speed bot, Thanes at the forge, shamans as end bots, RM as a PBT bot (self debuffers across the board have been nerfed now).
The only alternative ank squad is the MM style SM/Healer BoomBoom groups.
Still leaves the followign classes eitehr without a group or without a defined role beyond speed/end.
Skald
Thane
Shaman
Hunter
Warrior
Beserker
Liek I keep saying, MIDGARD as a whole is nowhere near overpowered, but select elite classes in Mid when combined work more efficiently than their Alb/Hib counterparts WHEN ACTIVE GROUP RA's ARE DOWN.
The Healer ahs hardly had ANY changes from release, nothign ahs been done to make them overpowered, in fact over time their PAC line has felt the harshest performance hit through Spellcrafting, Resist buffs and RA's.
A Healer is no more overpowered than ti was back in 1.36 Retail day 1. I dont recall people crying for Healer nerfs back in 1.36, so why call for them now?
Savage/SM Gank groups make healers look good when in fact they hav noe chanegd over time.
Personally I think Savages needed the toning down they have got so far, and as long as it stops here thats fine. they will STILL be the premieer tank choice for Mid gank groups post 1.65 so no real grounds to complain on, at least no more so than the less well off Mid tanks.
On the Classic weapon weaponskill nerf, I dotn think it should have been done tbh, ALL Pure Melee classes are on a Tank hp/ws table and have no power bar, to single out Savages as a unique case is deviatign from logn standing game mechanics.
TB If they can fix the resists situation in the game, then I see no reason why Hybrid Melee tanks (Skald, Thane, Champ, Reaver, Paladin, Valewalker) cannot be on Tank RA/HP tables but haev Hybrid Weaponskill tables like Savages.
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mordia
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- #52
Warriors shield skills, zerkers for PF.
M
mordia
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- #53
i rox
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dr_doctor
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- #54
Still no nerf for infs. I hate Mythic. I do.
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Gewny
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- #55
Solid about the healers (this is like tho old days when we argued about healers )
Since beta :
+ Healers got 3 resists buffs
+ Celerity
+ Self Str/con
+ Self Damg return
(note all above in farily high aug spec)
+ spread heals
+ groupe heals
+ Cleanse mind (demezz)
to the nerfs :
- CC immunity
- CC hit rate (eg. spell level check)
- Resists
- Purge, Det, Groupe Purge, SoS, and so on anti CC RA´s
- Hit rate of instas
This is what I can remeber atm. I still consider CC to be the most nerfed ability in game (not that it was wrong, but fact still remains)
The worst hit to healers still is the spell level check that ruined several very nice specs (I loved Gewn original spec) .
And to all that whines about ae stun should consider :
Healers are the only class with casted stun in mid.
Alb has a class with an insta stun on very short recast time.
Hib has stun on all casters except animist classes (and they can more easily utilise it)
Healers dont have QC and are a primary target in rvr, if you fear the insta AE stun, seek help
Dont even try to fool ureself that mid has most /level 30 in US for no reason...
)Since beta :
+ Healers got 3 resists buffs
+ Celerity
+ Self Str/con
+ Self Damg return
(note all above in farily high aug spec)
+ spread heals
+ groupe heals
+ Cleanse mind (demezz)
to the nerfs :
- CC immunity
- CC hit rate (eg. spell level check)
- Resists
- Purge, Det, Groupe Purge, SoS, and so on anti CC RA´s
- Hit rate of instas
This is what I can remeber atm. I still consider CC to be the most nerfed ability in game (not that it was wrong, but fact still remains)
The worst hit to healers still is the spell level check that ruined several very nice specs (I loved Gewn original spec
) .And to all that whines about ae stun should consider :
Healers are the only class with casted stun in mid.
Alb has a class with an insta stun on very short recast time.
Hib has stun on all casters except animist classes (and they can more easily utilise it)
Healers dont have QC and are a primary target in rvr, if you fear the insta AE stun, seek help
Dont even try to fool ureself that mid has most /level 30 in US for no reason...
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avonleah
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- #56
I may have missed out on something, but when did warrior ever become a hybrid cos of parry and high ws ?
M
mordia
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- #57
Think he means that warriors get high shield, weapon and mid parry, which armsmen and heroes cant get.
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Solid
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- #58
wow Mordia has uber between the lines reading skillz, cos to go from what cleeve said to her/his intepretation is brave.
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Nonnier
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- #59
warriors comparied to savages have no chance in rvr
u always see savage death spams, very rarly warrior death spams (saw it once)
simply because savage can chuck out shit loads of dmg in a small space of time, while warriors can block for the said savage
its been proven that S-S tanks are good solo, in against gank grps they simply can't chuck out enough dmg.
a savage can kill a healer in about 2 secs, warriors can't unless they get a good crit
so atm savages asre the best tanks in midgard, and the lack of a LW/pole/2 hand/CS spec line they can't do anything but go S-S
simply why warriors need a boost, good class but limited with a fully buffed up savage (same cheap RAs,etc)
oh, and BDs have zero grp factor, while at least wizards/thrug offer something to a grp, a grp AB buff would make me actually worth while to have in a grp
u always see savage death spams, very rarly warrior death spams (saw it once)
simply because savage can chuck out shit loads of dmg in a small space of time, while warriors can block for the said savage
its been proven that S-S tanks are good solo, in against gank grps they simply can't chuck out enough dmg.
a savage can kill a healer in about 2 secs, warriors can't unless they get a good crit
so atm savages asre the best tanks in midgard, and the lack of a LW/pole/2 hand/CS spec line they can't do anything but go S-S
simply why warriors need a boost, good class but limited with a fully buffed up savage (same cheap RAs,etc)
oh, and BDs have zero grp factor, while at least wizards/thrug offer something to a grp, a grp AB buff would make me actually worth while to have in a grp
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uma_thurman
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- #60
Can't you recast the single target abs buff?
BDs need the group abs buff as much as a wiz needs group damage add. Give both or give none.