Sad day

[old.ignus]

Originally posted by Nos-
And Thodgrain, please, for you own good, shut the fuck up and stop stereotyping students.

Good lad.

Why? He's right. All you students do is sit outside the gates of the real world smoking dope. When you're forced to enter the real world you is gonna get fucked, propa fucked*when you can't find that dream job you've been studying for.


*please read in the style of Turkish from Snatch.

 

[Nos-]

Originally posted by old.ignus
If I went into a gun store in America and registered with the NRA or whatever I could legally buy a gun in a few weeks, I could then use that gun purchased legally to commit a crime. In Britain I'd probably have to go to an illegal trader, seen Snatch? How do I know the gun will work, or not kill me when I fire it. What if that dealer is an under cover copper? What if my house is searched? I'd be fucked in any of those circumstances?

Shotguns and some rifles can be legally owned in the UK. Although Handguns are banned outright. Lol at the reference to Snatch by the way, you don't do yourself any favours do you.

Im not talking about that poxy little plant you guys can't seem to get enough of to fill the emptiness in your lives, Im talking about the hard class A shit that come mostly from columbia, a short flight from America, an ocean crossing journey from Britain, of course their are other places, but I think Columbia is the place to go.

Drugs are READILY available in the UK. Trust me, I'm a student.

So what you goody goody two shoes are saying is that we cannot take away peoples rights so really we shouldn't even put them in prison at all we should give them their freedom and their rights?

Re-read his post until you understand how much shite you are talking.

You talk about us being against killing in one hand but for it in another, no, without order their is chaos, and to keep that order people need to understand there are certain things they cannot do, and if they do it the consquences will be severe.

Correct, without order their is Chaos. Although capital punishment is not needed by any stretch of the imagination.

Its hard to explain to you why people feel the death penalty should be brought back (after the legal system has improved) because you won't listen.

Please give me one good reason why you're against it.

You haven't paid attention to a single fucking thing he's said have you? Now go back and make a list.

 

[Nos-]

Originally posted by old.ignus However 6th June 1944 British, American, French, Canadian and other countries took part in the D-day landings. from then on we were the aggressor fighting and killed German troops all the way to Berlin.

Hello? McFly?

The aggressor was Germany, for starting the goddamn war off.

Man, we should have just sat on our arses and let Hitler flatten all of Europe eh!

Why? He's right. All you students do is sit outside the gates of the real world smoking dope. When you're forced to enter the real world you is gonna get fucked, propa fucked*when you can't find that dream job you've been studying for.

Man, on the 4th year of my degree and have managed to reach this point SOLELY by sitting on the verge and smoking a phat one.

Skillz tbh.

 

[old.ignus]

yeah but lets face it, its not hard. What I meant was when you leave university you'll have difficulty getting a job you find "suitable" enough for you.
Now nos you really have missed the point haven't you? The arguement about guns and drugs was that they are, and you cannot deny this, easier to get hold of in America than they are in this country, therefore logically gun and drug related crime statistics will be higher in America than they are in Britain. At no point did I say they don't exsist in Britain. You have nothing to do with this part of the arguement and clearly don't understand its point (I wonder myself sometimes) and are just arguing for the sake of arguing. Cunt!

 

[old.ignus]

Originally posted by Nos-



The aggressor was Germany, for starting the goddamn war off.

Man, we should have just sat on our arses and let Hitler flatten all of Europe eh!

Hahahahahahahahahaha, thank you nos you just made my point. You see what you're saying.

Lets rephrase this for our current debate:

"The aggressor was the muderer for committing the crime.

Man, (chuckle, who says man, chuckle) we should just sit on our arses and let them do it again, eh!


you've made my point, had Hitler failed in his attempts to get the red army to join them he would have lacked the resources nessescary to invade Britain, especially with America sitting with us, therefore we would have been sitting pretty. But just in case he did have that chance we took him out before he could. Do you see where I'm going with this? We dropped to his level in effect to make sure he couldn't do it again.

Thank you Nos, thats a good example.

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Ignus, you're a dope.

Using your frankly retarded metaphor, the countries represent individuals, Axis initiated war, the allies acted in self defence, until the war was over (ie; Axis surrendered.)

Mr Throdgrain, without the moral high ground, slavery would still be perfectly legal, and ethnic clensing would be acceptable. Just because you can't be arsed to think above yourself or your current situation, don't condemn those that do.

 

[Sar]

Originally posted by old.ignus
My god Sar have you been out drinking? Are you that stupid? ok lets begin.
If I went into a gun store in America and registered with the NRA or whatever I could legally buy a gun in a few weeks, I could then use that gun purchased legally to commit a crime. In Britain I'd probably have to go to an illegal trader, seen Snatch? How do I know the gun will work, or not kill me when I fire it. What if that dealer is an under cover copper? What if my house is searched? I'd be fucked in any of those circumstances?

I have 2 things to say to that:

1. Lol
2. Oh dear
   [/list=1]
   
   Like I said in the post you even quoted yourself, the legality of guns is irrelevant when it comes to committing crimes - the potential murderer isn't going to change his mind about killing someone because handguns are illegal, the legality of the murder weapon is the last thing on his/her mind.
   
   And anyway, who said that murders and crimes could only be committed with guns? There's plenty of other perfectly legal objects that can be used to maim and kill. Any household kitchen knife for instance.
   
   Regardless, you're unnecessarily muddying the issue with irrelevancies.
   
   

   Im not talking about that poxy little plant you guys can't seem to get enough of to fill the emptiness in your lives, Im talking about the hard class A shit that come mostly from columbia, a short flight from America, an ocean crossing journey from Britain, of course their are other places, but I think Columbia is the place to go.

   
   Funnily enough I was talking about Grade-A drugs too. As I said, open your eyes. And again, irrelevant details muddying the issue at hand.
   
   

   So what you goody goody two shoes are saying is that we cannot take away peoples rights so really we shouldn't even put them in prison at all we should give them their freedom and their rights?

   
   Er, no. Clue. Get one, thx.
   
   

   You talk about us being against killing in one hand but for it in another, no, without order their is chaos, and to keep that order people need to understand there are certain things they cannot do

   
   Yes, so they need deterrants, and as I stated earlier, the Death Penalty is not an effective deterrant.
   
   

   ..and if they do it the consquences will be severe. In the case of Jack the Ripper he was not upholding order, quite the opposite in fact, prostitutes only harm themselves and so they hardly deserve death.

   
   
   Prostitutes don't only harm themselves - ever thought about STDs, AIDs, HIV and the like? There's plenty of active prostitutes with these diseases, willingly infecting men and women and not giving a shit.
   
   
   
   

   Its hard to explain to you why people feel the death penalty should be brought back (after the legal system has improved) because you won't listen.
   Please give me one good reason why you're against it.

   
   Firstly it's very easy to explain why some people are for bringing back the death penalty - Simply to sate feelings of revenge while dressing it up as justice - typical tabloid reader mentality in essence.
   
   One good reason why I'm against it? There's been plenty given if you'd bother your arse to read the whole fucking thread, but here's a damned good one:
   
   Wrongful convictions. No matter how good police techniques for catching criminals are, they'll never be infallible. Witnesses are fallible (because memory is subjective, and some will just plain lie about the facts), and evidence can either be planted, tampered with or destroyed, either accidentally or by design.

 

[throdgrain]

Originally posted by Scooba Da Bass

Mr Throdgrain, without the moral high ground, slavery would still be perfectly legal, and ethnic clensing would be acceptable. Just because you can't be arsed to think above yourself or your current situation, don't condemn those that do.

Scooba I did it for years and years, I just got fed up of it I suppose. Nothing much ever changes, no matter how loud anyone shouts.

 

[Nos-]

Throdgrain sold out!

 

[old.ignus]

for fucks sake this is just pointless, I can't even be bothered to argue anymore cos its just the same fuckwits.
Sar your stupidity and ignorance amuses me, your failure to see the point is beyond foolishness.
And Nos, well it seems nos has given up on arguing with me, good boy.
Scooba I know more about the second world war than you do and the reason for the allies offensive continuing even after the Germans could hardly fight back and it wasn't defensive.

I wouldn't bother replying boyz as I won't!!!

 

[nath]

You're a bit gay really ignus.

Exxie, I believe it was Martin Luther King "an eye for an eye leaves everyone blind" if I recall correctly.

 

[Sar]

(although harldy a compliment)

Says it all and proves my point really.

Ignus, you're a tard.

Put that in yer sig.



If you actually knew what point it was you were trying to make, then you could at least then have a stab at clarifying it, but seeing as you're having trouble with that first part I think it's best you leave well enough alone right now.

 

[Moving Target]

So, people want to kill people...for killing people? Slightly hypocritical, no?

 

[Sar]

Precisely.

That simple concept lies beyond some people's mental remit though.

 

[*charlton_thd*]

*agrees*

 

[~YuckFou~]

Best scouse accent "clam down , calm down".

I really cba reading all of the above but get the idea.


Although the death penalty leaves a bad taste in the mouth, there are few (any?) alternatives currently. The general population may be making this decision on emotions, but the courts make the decisions on facts.
I'm in favour under some circumstances. They are that the offender is caught with a smoking gun. That will probably mean in the latest cases that there is undeniable DNA evidence. I would be against it where it is ones persons testimony against another. The evidence has to be rock solid.

I don't think that this would act as a deterent, it would however stop any re-offending. Better late than never.

As we seem to be using quotes... "Live by the sword, die by the sword".


It's strange how the threads on here that start as debates often end up as personal slanging matches. If we all had the same views the world would be boring as fuck.

On a personal note if a relative of mine was murdered/raped, I would make it my lifes work to find the offender and make them pay for their mistake. So I have emotions, sue me.

 

[legendario]

Originally posted by throdgrain
These threads always end up "you're a fucking idiot" "no you're a fucking idiot". Sad really. An exchange of views would be so much more interesting.

I'm 100% with throddy on this. This debate is old and who the fuck are we to argue another human beings fate? A lot of you aren't prepared to decide your own yet.

Nos and nath. ffs.

Can you two accept anothers opinion, if it differs from your own, without calling them a cunt?

Even if their argument has no logic, it doesn't make them a fuckin retard as you so intelligently put it.

At the end of the day, whatever you lot think, the majority cant hold together a sensible argument without descending into childish insults.

 

[Nos-]

Where have I used childish insults?

Ironically capital punishment is nothing more than playground justice in full flow.

"ehehehe he hit me so i hit him back!!!111 eheheahaha"

I apologise if this debate is getting a bit heated legandario. But with a subject matter such as this these things always do.

":|"

 

[Gumbo]

OK, big fight in here eh?

I'm not gonna get into the death penalty thing, but....

There are some of these re-offending paedophile people who after serving a few months for feeling up there niece, then a few years for raping some poor schoolgirl, end up killing someone. We see that sort of progression too often.

Well how about this chemical castration lark after the rape bit?

Take that driving force between there legs out of the equation and we aint killed anyone, and hopefully they won't either.

Or is this a, 'can open, worms everywhere!' idea?

/me puts flame retardent suit on.

 

[legendario]

Castration was a common way to stop sex offenders reoffending not all that long ago. (well a hundred or so years ago).

It just aint PC anymore

 

[Stazbumpa]

I have, shall we say, a working knowledge at least of some of these people and to be honest, executing them doesn't sound all that bad to me. As Ig said earlier, the legal system is in need of SERIOUS overhaul and rethinkg, because as it stands its crap and hanging the bastards wouldn't be right if DNA evidence that said they were innocent gets "discovered" in a drawer somewhere 3 years after they have already swung.

To address points made earlier.

1: Gun crime is bigger in America for 3 reasons: A) USA is bigger and has a proportionatly higher number of psycho's in it, B) Guns are so easy to get its stupid, and C) The American way of life is based on guns. Sombine the 3 and you have gun crime of ridiculous levels. This is fact, no matter how you dress it up. Shooting someone and stabbing someone take 2 totally different mindsets because, psychologically speaking, shooting distances the perpetrator from the victim, therefore on a subconcious level the perp is less effected by what he/she is doing.

2: Drugs are bigger in the USA because of reason A) above and also because of geography (like Ignus said). Being situated a light aircraft journey from the worlds biggest cocaine/opium producer doesn't help you know.

Anyway, going back to the original point, I don't think that the people that did this to Milly Dowler or any other of the children that have been raped, tortured and murdered to satisfy their sexual depravities could ever be granted even basic human rights. They gave them up as soon as they did what they did.

But as it is they have these rights, but it seems to me that because of the misplaced righteouness of others, they are taking the piss.

 

[old.Jas]

Interesting statistic : There is more gun crime in US schools than there is in the whole of the UK

 

[Shocko]

Originally posted by Stazbumpa
I don't think that the people that did this to Milly Dowler or any other of the children that have been raped, tortured and murdered to satisfy their sexual depravities could ever be granted even basic human rights. They gave them up as soon as they did what they did.

But as it is they have these rights, but it seems to me that because of the misplaced righteouness of others, they are taking the piss.

The whole point of human rights, is that they cannot be taken away. If you were only entitled to them if you did what society said, they would be called 'Respectable members of society Rights', however they're not, they're rights for _all_ human beings, reguardless of what they've done, want to do, or think.

 

[throdgrain]

Quick someone pass me a telescope ! I can just about see you up there Shocko m8, on top of that high hill

 

[old.Kez]

Originally posted by legendario
Even if their argument has no logic, it doesn't make them a fucking retard

It really, really does, you know.

 

[Stazbumpa]

Trust you to lower the tone.

 

[nath]

Originally posted by ~YuckFou~
On a personal note if a relative of mine was murdered/raped, I would make it my lifes work to find the offender and make them pay for their mistake. So I have emotions, sue me.

I'm not entirely sure that I could swear to not doing that either. But my point is that we shouldn't base our legal system on our emotions.

For example: my car got broken into this weekend, I wanted to hunt down and maim the people who did it (although that was partley because I was in a bad mood anyway). And even though I really wanted to skin the fuckers alive, I can still see the distinction between my personal vendetta and my beliefs/opinions about the law.

 

[Testin da Cable]

Originally posted by Shocko

The whole point of human rights, is that they cannot be taken away. If you were only entitled to them if you did what society said, they would be called 'Respectable members of society Rights', however they're not, they're rights for _all_ human beings, reguardless of what they've done, want to do, or think.

sorry shocko, but someone who murders a child doesn't exactly qualify as a human anymore in my humble opinion.
ah yes, I'd just love to see the buggers languish in an icky jail somewhere. I'm sure the fellas in there are infinitely more capable of making the bastards suffer than I am once the word 'killed a child' got out [though I wouldn't mind an hour or so of beating then with a rusting iron pipe tbh]

 

[Sar]

Neither would I Teedles, but when it comes to meting out punishment fairly then you have to be objective. Not subjective.

It basically comes down to this:

Are you capable of using your wisdom to separate subjective feelings from objective judgement?

Why do you think juries aren't made up of the families of the crime victims?

 

[nath]

And I've said that how many times?


/me tuts