Sad day

[Pippa666]

Since my comments in here have obviously angered a few ppl I would like to get a couple of things straight.
Did I come in here with a plaquard saying all crime must end in death ? NO
Did I abuse anyone prior to being abused ? NO
I simply gave my views on the death penalty, of which I am in favour of returning.
Just out of curiosity for those who have been flaming me, if you had a daughter or a son who was murdered would you be so full of yourself as you have been with me ? I think not.
Finally: I have always felt the death penalty should be brought back, its not through recent events which has caused me to get all emotional, it has always been my view (which I am entitled to). If ppl dont agree with me then thats fine, like I said previously we are all entitled to our own opinions, there is no reason to verbally abuse me for mine tho.

 

[throdgrain]

Never works out like that Pippa, dont forget this is the BW moral high ground club.

 

[Pippa666]

lol throdgrain....Where do I get my membership form from ?? <g>

 

[Sawtooth]

Nice to see debate falls down to whos the fucking retard. No reason here.

 

[nath]

Pippa, if I had a son/daughter and s/he was murdered, I'd probably go insane and try to skin the person that did it.

Like I said, laws should not be based on emotional rage.

 

[Sar]

Originally posted by old.ignus


What kind of an idiot are you? I may have to change my sig because if you're going use comparisons like that then it means nothing.
How big is America, and how big is Britain? Can you legally buy guns in America, can you legally buy guns in Britain? How far away is the drugs capital of the world from America, and how far is it from Britain? Do you see where I'm going with this. America and Britain are too different countries, you cannot compare them.

I'd be pleased if you changed your sig, because you're more than frequently totally wrong on most things.

So what if you can legally buy guns in America? If you're gonna commit a crime either here or there you'll get your hands on a gun regardless of their legality - I don't see many Armed Robbers turning around to their accomplices and saying "Sorry lads, we can't commit the robbery, turns out Guns are illegal". Doh.

Ditto drugs - drugs are as easy to come by in the UK as they are in America. Open your eyes.

What gets me though is that you actually go on to agree in general with my point about not bringing back Capital Punishment. Nuff said.

 

[mr.Blacky]

ok dispite the final flaming etc there are some post here that are for sure thought about.

Originally posted by old.ignus (some editing)

How big is America, and how big is Britain? Can you legally buy guns in America, can you legally buy guns in Britain? How far away is the drugs capital of the world from America, and how far is it from Britain? Do you see where I'm going with this. America and Britain are too different countries, you cannot compare them.
TBH there is no way they should or could bring back the death penalty because at the moment the whole legal system is a farce. The judges are old and unbelievably stupid and ignorant of modern day life, sentances are either ridiculously long or short, the laws reguarding peoadophiles are a joke, cops have too much paper work to do, the list goes on. As someone mentioned earllier this government is a bunch of sort girlies who don't want to upset the do-gooders, its just a shame there are no other political leaders who aren't a soft girly and could turn things around.
What annoys me most is that the prisoners of today lead quite a good life, with TVs, videos, CD players, pool tables all at our expense. I know people who are too poor to own a CD player. There is no bummings in the shower anymore they get seperate cubicles, and apart from raising their voice the guards can't do much more unless they are attacked, so life isn't as bad as it should be for them. When Staz gets back I'm sure he can tell you some stories about prison life.

There are others too.
I am for capital punishment but the whole legal system has to change, everywhere in Europe tbh. Only after that it should be one of the many options for punishment and only in very specific situations.

Another reason why capital punishment is not going to be implemented is the fact that the european court is not going to accept the death penalty. Also most member states will not extredite (sp?) suspects to the UK.

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

The death penalty is an incredibly barbaric system of justice, and one that doesn't work as a deterrent. To paraphrase a famous quote by Corette King; "An evil deed is not redeemed by an evil deed of retaliation. Justice is never advanced in the taking of human life. Morality is never upheld by legalized murder."

The UN receivied a report on the detah penalty that concluded with the following; ". . . research has failed to provide scientific proof that executions have a greater deterrent effect than life imprisonment. Such proof is unlikely to be forthcoming. The evidence as a whole still gives no positive support to the deterrent hypothesis".

To those who support the dealth penalty, what possibly reason can you have for supporting it?

 

[Sar]

Originally posted by Scooba Da Bass
To those who support the dealth penalty, what possibly reason can you have for supporting it?

Besides revenge and anything derived from those feelings...

 

[Scooba Da Bass]

Originally posted by mr.Blacky
There are others too.
I am for capital punishment but the whole legal system has to change, everywhere in Europe tbh. Only after that it should be one of the many options for punishment and only in very specific situations.

What specific situations? When does it become acceptable to take away human rights (which are there to protect everyone, regardless of who they are)? How can a state justify killing on one hand, and yet be against it on the other?

I fail to understand how anyone can support the death penalty not only because of the above, but in light of the terrible miscarriages of justice that happen all too often.

 

[Mellow-]

Originally posted by Scooba Da Bass
To those who support the dealth penalty, what possibly reason can you have for supporting it?

Originally posted by Sar
Besides revenge and anything derived from those feelings...

By ending the existence of the most extreme cases, i.e serial rapists, serial murderers, serial child offenders/killers. You are removing the "tumour" if you will from the "body" of society.

... does that make sense?

 

[Sar]

Originally posted by Mellow-




By ending the existence of the most extreme cases, i.e serial rapists, serial murderers, serial child offenders/killers. You are removing the "tumour" if you will from the "body" of society.

... does that make sense?

So does that mean that someone like Jack the Ripper, who was removing the tumour that was the Victorian prostitute from the body of Whitehall society can be excused, because his reasoning was "sound"?

Sadly no. There's never any justifiable non-emotional reason for killing anyone. No matter who they are.

 

[Nos-]

Amen you execution loving motherfuckers!

 

[Sar]

Lol nos

 

[Mellow-]

Do I get jelly and ice cream for at least having a go?

 

[exxxie]

Who once said "If we live by the code of 'An Eye For an Eye' then we shall all soon be blind" ? Kinda paraphrased it cos I cba looking it up... killing people for killing people is barbaric, rehabilition currently doesnt work. So we must develop new ways of dealing with fucked up people. Investing money into this kind of research makes a great deal of sense.... instead our medium term, short sighted politicians build my prisons. Bad social adjustment, call it what you want... the sooner we really DEAL with mental health, the sooner we get to the bottom of problems like crime.

 

[Sar]

Originally posted by Mellow-
Do I get jelly and ice cream for at least having a go?

 

[hoggsboss]

Originally posted by old.ignus
Nath, who gives a fuck about the mental state of that twat caretaker, he's evil he deserves a crap life or death not luxury.

Why do you people insist on giving rights to those who took other people's away? The man killed two inocent young girls and don't think he should hang? why? please explain to me coz I just can't figure it out?

he may well have murdered the 2 girls but as yet he is innocent until proven guilty and yet still ppl actually take time to make banners and drag themselves and their screaming kids along so they can shout abuse at someone who as yet has not been convicted, its this attitude that would see innocent ppl swing.

with regards to these sort of crimes not happening "back in the day" paedophillia and child murder statistics are pretty much the same as they always have been its just we live in a more informed society now with various media to report news so when something like this happens it becomes much more high profile.

 

[Furr]

Try to remember Britain has always been a pit of violence, murder and crime.
Its just before we didn't know about it as much, we do now thanks to TV the web etc....

 

[mr.Blacky]

Originally posted by Scooba Da Bass


What specific situations? When does it become acceptable to take away human rights (which are there to protect everyone, regardless of who they are)? How can a state justify killing on one hand, and yet be against it on the other?

I fail to understand how anyone can support the death penalty not only because of the above, but in light of the terrible miscarriages of justice that happen all too often.

The specific situations: murder on more then one ocasion (perhaps already with a murderconviction), murder and planned murder (?) not sure about the last one.
I think that the deathpenalty should be the ultimate but the most rare sentence.
The main trouble I have with it is what Wolfie said the innocent people and the fact that it will open the door for "not so bad" crimes to be punished in the same way.

The way I see it there is a diverance between killing and murder, obvious not for the dead person. War has been discribed as mass murder, but would anyone want to put Churchill on trial for mass murder for the killing of so many Germans?

The miscarriages of justice is imho the main reason why the justice system in so many countries need a large tune-up. To many mistakes so much red tape. Even if people do their ultimate best they will make mistakes.

Also something I would like to say is that people forget the family of the murdered person (not the convict) they have a live sentence.

On the subject of crazy people when committing a crime: everybody who commits a crime is crazy or mental deficiant. If that would not be the case then criminal activities are considered normal..... and would make it acceptable to commit crime.

 

[Sar]

Originally posted by mr.Blacky
On the subject of crazy people when committing a crime: everybody who commits a crime is crazy or mental deficiant.

Utter bollocks.

 

[Furr]

*agrees with Sar*

 

[old.Kez]

On the subject of the death penalty:

Pippa - If your child were to grow up and commit a crime deemed worthy of the death penalty, are you honestly saying you'd be all for it? Out of interest, and whatnot.

 

[throdgrain]

///eek!! PPA ! (Pissed post alert!)

Forget i said all that please, just being argumentative. Damn you want to see me in a pub at closing time

Heh, apologies .

 

[Nos-]

Originally posted by mr.Blacky
War has been discribed as mass murder, but would anyone want to put Churchill on trial for mass murder for the killing of so many Germans?

War != Murder/Capital Punishment

War (providing you're not the aggressor) is in essence self defence on a grand scale.

So you're comparing chalk with cheese.

Try again.

Thx.

 

[Nos-]

And Thodgrain, please, for you own good, shut the fuck up and stop stereotyping students.

Good lad.

 

[SLiC3R-]

jelous cunt.

 

[old.ignus]

Originally posted by Sar


I'd be pleased if you changed your sig, because you're more than frequently totally wrong on most things.

So what if you can legally buy guns in America? If you're gonna commit a crime either here or there you'll get your hands on a gun regardless of their legality - I don't see many Armed Robbers turning around to their accomplices and saying "Sorry lads, we can't commit the robbery, turns out Guns are illegal". Doh.

Ditto drugs - drugs are as easy to come by in the UK as they are in America. Open your eyes.

What gets me though is that you actually go on to agree in general with my point about not bringing back Capital Punishment. Nuff said.

My god Sar have you been out drinking? Are you that stupid? ok lets begin.
If I went into a gun store in America and registered with the NRA or whatever I could legally buy a gun in a few weeks, I could then use that gun purchased legally to commit a crime. In Britain I'd probably have to go to an illegal trader, seen Snatch? How do I know the gun will work, or not kill me when I fire it. What if that dealer is an under cover copper? What if my house is searched? I'd be fucked in any of those circumstances?
Im not talking about that poxy little plant you guys can't seem to get enough of to fill the emptiness in your lives, Im talking about the hard class A shit that come mostly from columbia, a short flight from America, an ocean crossing journey from Britain, of course their are other places, but I think Columbia is the place to go.
And I didn't say we shouldn't bring back capital punishment I said we can't bring it back untill the whole legal system is reevaluated because at the moment the farce that is the current legal system isn't compatible with the legal system. But if that did happen we might not even need the death penalty, but I doubt it.

So what you goody goody two shoes are saying is that we cannot take away peoples rights so really we shouldn't even put them in prison at all we should give them their freedom and their rights? You talk about us being against killing in one hand but for it in another, no, without order their is chaos, and to keep that order people need to understand there are certain things they cannot do, and if they do it the consquences will be severe. In the case of Jack the Ripper he was not upholding order, quite the opposite in fact, prostitutes only harm themselves and so they hardly deserve death.
Its hard to explain to you why people feel the death penalty should be brought back (after the legal system has improved) because you won't listen.
Please give me one good reason why you're against it.

 

[old.ignus]

Originally posted by Nos-


War != Murder/Capital Punishment

War (providing you're not the aggressor) is in essence self defence on a grand scale.

So you're comparing chalk with cheese.

Try again.

Thx.

during the second world war we were in self defence mode defending our little island. However 6th June 1944 British, American, French, Canadian and other countries took part in the D-day landings. from then on we were the aggressor fighting and killed German troops all the way to Berlin. The real reason was because we didn't want Stalin and the Red army to take europe from the Nazis and put communism on the increase. Therefore mr.blacky's point is still valid.

Try again.

 

[SLiC3R-]

good shout