Realm inbalance?

[Sycho]

Mid mana regen is better actually Oo

Anyway game is most balanced than it's ever been it's just casters in mid/alb are far inferior to hibs BUT hib tanks do not seem as good as mid/alb so i guess it evens out kind of...

Though ToA will fuck the game up my view ;/

0.6s pbaoe with bodyguard woohoo -_-

 

[Vae]

Good summing up Sycho but one thing - Why do you hibs have weakest tank group given triple weild >> DT ?

 

[Naetha]

Obviously we haven't had the savage nerf yet, but I still believe 3 savages and a skald >>>>>>> 3 mercs and a paladin. At the end of the day a merc hits for 250-400 damage every swing (if it dual wields) while a savage, even if its overall damage gets reduced by the zerker 'nerf' equivalent, will hit for a good 30-50% more AND get enhanced evade ~5 and the other bonuses.

Mid tanks are just much much better than Alb tanks (not to mention the fact that they have a greater choice of determination tanks). Warrior >>> Armsman, Zerkers and Mercs are probably about balanced, and savages >>>> reavers (as close to an equivalent as we can get).

 

[nuky]

omg - lol, seriously guys, if Alb is so damned overpowered, how come the Mid level 50s (which form 31% of the level 50 playerbase) made 33% of last week's realm points, as opposed to Alb where 41% of the level 50 players on the server made 34% of last week's realm points?

I hate to repeat myself but don't harp on and on and on and on and on about the so-called Alb love and uberness unless you've played Alb in RvR.

I thought Mid was really overpowered in RvR, so I went to Mid and I levelled up a character, and I have been RvRing, and talked to people who RvR a lot. From this I have decided that general Mids > general Hibs > general Albs - obviously there's many more variables such as what RAs are up, who gets the jump on who, who's running a random pick-up group and who's running a fotm buffbotted group etc etc etc.

Now until you have a decent argument to back yourself up, please stop whining!

tell ur necros and pally's to get out of df, would love to see the % of cash farmed in the same period of time ^^

i havent played hib or alb in RvR, all my opinions are based on what i see in mid RvR, through my own characters and playing the characters of friends. and i only wish my characters could do have the things their alb counterparts can do. ur tellin me to get proof and yet u base ur statement on ur point of view, as u said 'from this i have decided'

i dont only measure how overpowered a class is by how it fits into fg v fg fights. i enjoy pve, soloing, keep fights and fg v fg stuff. and to be honest out of these things alb come out on top for pretty much everyone in my eyes.

its no use arguing really, the grass is greener on the other side

 

[Sycho]

Mid tanks are same as albs kind of.You will see when you play mid at lv50 in rvr maybe Oo

Triple wield is good but my bm noway hits my merc's damage...but he's got like 150-200 less weaponskill and a faster weap so i guess that's why.

Naetha mercs hit harder than that if you use the right weapons my mainhand unstyled damage is 212 offhand is 180 xD

My average damage on on mid chain(without dis)/studded(after dis):

http://members.home.nl/csd/daoc/dan/crush-cupina.JPG

Yeah i know it's hardest hitting dw style in that screenie...but i use it as much as i can so

Reinforce it's about 50 more mainhand or so.(1.9s delay dual swing not as fast as savages with 4 spd claws next patch xE but still)

 

[Sycho]

tell ur necros and pally's to get out of df, would love to see the % of cash farmed in the same period of time ^^

i havent played hib or alb in RvR, all my opinions are based on what i see in mid RvR, through my own characters and playing the characters of friends. and i only wish my characters could do have the things their alb counterparts can do. ur tellin me to get proof and yet u base ur statement on ur point of view, as u said 'from this i have decided'

i dont only measure how overpowered a class is by how it fits into fg v fg fights. i enjoy pve, soloing, keep fights and fg v fg stuff. and to be honest out of these things alb come out on top for pretty much everyone in my eyes.

its no use arguing really, the grass is greener on the other side

My post earlier is from all 3 realms playing experience, as you can see you are very mistaken, i know it's my opinion only but that's about as close as you can get for a brief summary of each realm.

 

[nuky]

My post earlier is from all 3 realms playing experience, as you can see you are very mistaken, i know it's my opinion only but that's about as close as you can get for a brief summary of each realm.

no no no i quoted Naetha

i DO understand that ur an experienced player and are not completely biased like most others

 

[Naetha]

The grass will always be greener on the other side, that's what life is like. An argument can also never be 'won' through discussions like these. I'm not even trying to 'win' the argument, I'm just trying to convey my point of view on these things because I feel strongly about them.

If a class is regarded as overpowered by another realm, it is usually because it performs better than others in RvR. The other realms generally don't see the PvE side of it, and being overpowered in PvE isn't always good for the realm. Necros and cabbies in Alb are as bad as malmo groups and shammy BBs in Mid, and fds/pbaoe groups in Hib - I've logged in frustration because of all three of these examples of being overpowered in PvE.

At the end of the day, you're never going to take somebody's word in this kind of argument, and the best way of seeing the other point of view is to walk a mile in the other person's shoes.

 

[Zapsi]

1 thing seems to be forgotten 3 healers that cant do much damage.
sorz can nuke can debuff + a pet that will still run around interrupt even u kill the sorz in 90 % of times.
Bard can dd not much damage but its ins interrupts
2x druids with pets 1 maybe grey con.

See no reason why healers dont get a pet in pac line.

 

[Naetha]

Sycho - I'm sure I would hit for as much as that if I was RR9 and fully buffed with purple con buffs. I'm talking about the average-Joe tank, not the Fotm-group buffbotted high RR people.

 

[Naetha]

1 thing seems to be forgotten 3 healers that cant do much damage.
sorz can nuke can debuff + a pet that will still run around interrupt even u kill the sorz in 90 % of times.
Bard can dd not much damage but its ins interrupts
2x druids with pets 1 maybe grey con.

See no reason why healers dont get a pet in pac line.

Lol - 2 clerics can do loads of damage though...

Sure, a sorc can nuke and debuff, but as any pac healer will tell you, as soon as you have mezzed, everyone has you as a target, and you have to run for your life. A good sorc can get a (spec) ae str/con debuff in before the mezz lands (although the sorc would have to sacrifice the quickcast if they want to do this), but this still isn't as useful as (baseline) ae disease on the shammy.

And if the pet is still attacking you after the sorc has died then its because someone was stupid enough to attack it

And if healers get a pet in the pac line, then I don't see why wizards shouldn't get an intercept pet as well.

 

[Sycho]

Sycho - I'm sure I would hit for as much as that if I was RR9 and fully buffed with purple con buffs. I'm talking about the average-Joe tank, not the Fotm-group buffbotted high RR people.

Erm i can hit that hard with cleric buffs too, so a group with merc+ 2 arms or 2 mercs+arms is fotm?i think not.(as a merc it's best to use slowest weaps and haste each one, i always said that and always will, dds are shit to hastes but if you have a good theurg with you always i guess use dds or dots...)

Zapsi it's because alb has very little interupts compared to mid/hib they give a sorc a pet.(i will not bother posting more about this but you could probably see it anyway )

I could give a list of weaknesses and strengths in each realm if i could be bothered but it would be pretty big it's ra's really that are fucking the game up more than class balances.

 

[Naetha]

Erm i can hit that hard with cleric buffs too

So er, not meaning to be funny here, but if you hit as hard with blue con buffs as with full purple MotAwhatever buffs, why do you use a buffbot

I use a guarded rapier/long dirk (will be exceptional stilleto after tomorrow) with a DD proc main hand and haste proc off-hand, and hit for an average of 200/110 with a positional and blue/yellow con spec buffs. If I can hit harder somehow, then tell me, but afaik there's not much I can do to hit as hard as you other than get a BB and RR9

 

[Sycho]

So er, not meaning to be funny here, but if you hit as hard with blue con buffs as with full purple MotAwhatever buffs, why do you use a buffbot

I use a guarded rapier/long dirk (will be exceptional stilleto after tomorrow) with a DD proc main hand and haste proc off-hand, and hit for an average of 200/110 with a positional and blue/yellow con spec buffs. If I can hit harder somehow, then tell me, but afaik there's not much I can do to hit as hard as you other than get a BB and RR9

Well of course with more str i will hit cap more often but it's not my buffbot it's someone's in the group, of course most wouldn't say no to buffs from it.

You do know the difference between a rr9 merc and a rr1 merc is only about 80 weaponskill? so realm rank damage difference isn't a fact, it's a myth(if the weaponskill damage formula is what i have made of it then i am only hitting 4-8% harder than a highlander rr1 crush merc so, discluding ra's of course and same str) but as a thrust merc having blue/yellow buffs really doesn't make your damage anywhere near as a good as purple ones, due to most clerics having blue dex so you will not have the weaponskill equivalent of a crush/slash spec merc who would be getting his/her weaponskill from one yellow buff.

 

[Tuppe]

omg - lol, seriously guys, if Alb is so damned overpowered, how come the Mid level 50s (which form 31% of the level 50 playerbase) made 33% of last week's realm points, as opposed to Alb where 41% of the level 50 players on the server made 34% of last week's realm points?

I hate to repeat myself but don't harp on and on and on and on and on about the so-called Alb love and uberness unless you've played Alb in RvR.

I thought Mid was really overpowered in RvR, so I went to Mid and I levelled up a character, and I have been RvRing, and talked to people who RvR a lot. From this I have decided that general Mids > general Hibs > general Albs - obviously there's many more variables such as what RAs are up, who gets the jump on who, who's running a random pick-up group and who's running a fotm buffbotted group etc etc etc.

Now until you have a decent argument to back yourself up, please stop whining!

this is old whine and allways albs come up whit this.
if mids go to emain or any frontier and rvr there is most time 1.5x numbers albs.
if 2 alb kill 1 mid how many rp they get?
if 1 mid run against these and kill from 2 alb 1 how many rp mid get?
go and look how many RL 10 alb/hibs have in this server and check same numbers from mids side.

wtf this old whine going on and on, what albs is needed is one big huge nerf stick, they have get way too much love lately from mythic and think they are somehow gimps.

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

It takes more classes (therefore more characters) to make a viable RvR group.

it dose?

last time i checked:

cleric cleric paladin minstrel sorc merc merc merc

healer healer healer skald shaman savage/zerk savage/zerk warrior

druid druid bard warden bm bm hero caster (?)


As I can see it albion isnt that bad when it comes to making viable rvr groups.

Many says that albions worst enemy or largest is lack of disease and/or ae disease...not a problem that cant be solved imo.

 

[Naetha]

go and look how many RL 10 alb/hibs have in this server and check same numbers from mids side.

Yup, there are more RR10 Albs than Hibs or Mids. However, there's more RR9, 8, 7, 6 and 5s in Mid than in Alb or Hib - not Alb's fault Mids decide that they have to delete/retire their latest fotm and start another instead

http://www.duskwave.com/daoc/generalstats.php?server=Prydwen&realm=

wtf this old whine going on and on, what albs is needed is one big huge nerf stick, they have get way too much love lately from mythic and think they are somehow gimps.

I never said Albs were gimps, just that they're not overpowered. If you think sledgehammer nerfing is what is needed - tell me what you would change, and how it would balance the realms, and please don't whine about BoF and SoS as they're not as uber as people make them out to be, and I'm sure they will be brought up in the RA review.

 

[Naetha]

It takes more classes (therefore more characters) to make a viable RvR group.

it dose?

last time i checked:

cleric cleric paladin minstrel sorc merc merc merc

healer healer healer skald shaman savage/zerk savage/zerk warrior

druid druid bard warden bm bm hero caster (?)


As I can see it albion isnt that bad when it comes to making viable rvr groups.

Many says that albions worst enemy or largest is lack of disease and/or ae disease...not a problem that cant be solved imo.

You just answered your own question - all three groups have the same number of tanks, but the Mid group has 3 healers (pac/mend aug/mend and one other presumably, so all 3 having a reasonable amount of healing power, some buffs and good rezzes) and a shammy for buffs, small heals and ghetto rezzes, the Hib group has 2 druids with good heals, spec buffs and good rezzes, and a bard and a warden for additional buffs, small heals and ghetto rezzes, while the Alb group has 2 clerics for good heals, good rezzes and spec buffs, and a paladin for ghetto rezzes.

So Albs can even it up either by having another cleric which increases the group's survivability but reduces the damage output by a third, or make do with 2 healing classes, when they constantly come up against groups with 4 healing classes and the same damage output. Friars are a viable option in Alb groups in my opinion (I was kept alive by one last night for ages ) but they don't get into most fotm group set-ups due to lack of group features and lack of determination.

 

[Cathul]

I think that enough people have tried midgard and moved albion after that and the other way around. Im looking for opinions also here especially from those people.

Dont forget, by making the groups you just mentioned, you have more utility in that group then any other groups. Especiall when RA's are concerned And the problem about certain classes not being able to get groups is what every realm has to cope with because every realm has their own "best setup" or "fotm setup" as people call it.

Sorry my opinion stands mate

Well, imho it's far easier to setup a 8vs8 group in Midgard than in Albion. Exspecially in these days of dark age of tankalot.

You want crowdcontrol in Albion? You have to take a clothwearing class into your group.
You want speccbuffs and at the same time the same healing power as two healers? You have to take a third cleric, which on the other side almost prevents you from getting desease, 'cause desease is on another cloth wearing class in albion.

The problem isn't that albions classes aren't as good as midgard's classes, imho the reaver for example, although no fotm-class 'cause of lacking determination, is one of the best classes in the entire game (and no, not only because i play one ). The problem is, that many for 8vs8 fights necessary abilities are spread over too many classes in albion.

The effect is, that as an albion group you heavily relay on realm abilities in 8vs8 encounters while as mid you aren't as heavily focused on ra's as in albion.
In bigger encounters most of these things doesn't matter though.

/Cathul

 

[Ivan]

AE disease wont be such problem with Group Disease cure <and i personally think they should introduce a 15 second immunity on it>

 

[Cathul]

AE disease wont be such problem with Group Disease cure <and i personally think they should introduce a 15 second immunity on it>

Sure, with ToA it wont be such a problem anymore, but it still will be a problem. You have to reach the masterlevel first to get cure group disease...

But after all i hope that RvR will go another way like it is now.. away from all the 8vs8 crap which leaves too many classes almost useless in the setups needed for 8vs8.

I bet my reaver wouldn't even get a group even if it was the only ML8-battlemaster with Bodyguard available, 'cause of lack of determination.
But this doesn't only make me sick with albion's groupsetups, but with Hibernia and Midgard, too.
I don't know if thane can be a battlemaster, but imho he would be uber with Grapple. Not able to swing his weapon, but able to nuke. Same goes for valewalker. But how many of these chars do you see in typical RvR these days? Best RvR would be the RvR where _every single class_ would be appreciated, and this isn't this 8vs8-thing that most players want to play and therefor force others to play toons they don't really like.

/Cathul

 

[Naetha]

People need to get out of the mind-set that the only viable RvR set-ups are the ones that Grivne mentioned. Personally I love RvRing with a reaver and a scout as opposed to 3 mercs, I find in guild RvR groups we often win against assist/ pbaoe groups because we are good players, rather than we have the most uber set-up.

Was great beating a 3 bm Hib group last night because the first target of the assist train was the paladin, and they didn't think to change target for a good 30 seconds, by which point their support was dead, so they switched their assist target to me instead of the cleric, friar or sorc pissing themselves laughing at them

 

[Zapsi]

And if the pet is still attacking you after the sorc has died then its because someone was stupid enough to attack it

.

Ae mess and pet will attack u after mess is gone or diease stun is not like u have to hit the bloody pet, it will still be there after the sorz is dead. Would be diff story if the pet returned to original pop spot in speed 9 when sorz died.

 

[Tuppe]

Yup, there are more RR10 Albs than Hibs or Mids. However, there's more RR9, 8, 7, 6 and 5s in Mid than in Alb or Hib - not Alb's fault Mids decide that they have to delete/retire their latest fotm and start another instead

http://www.duskwave.com/daoc/generalstats.php?server=Prydwen&realm=



I never said Albs were gimps, just that they're not overpowered. If you think sledgehammer nerfing is what is needed - tell me what you would change, and how it would balance the realms, and please don't whine about BoF and SoS as they're not as uber as people make them out to be, and I'm sure they will be brought up in the RA review.

well, albs maybe? isnt overpowered but same situation what mids.
albs have own killer classes, sadly dont see so often but they exist.
reaver is one nasty piece of junk whit 1h weapon/shield and near 1k dmg, necro (buffed one) unkillable by melee.
paladin is 1v1 insane good.
inf?! well everybody know this foty.
minst oh boy i hate this class, poor but groupped whit inf/scout need nerf.
cab and dots, mids version dont come even close etc etc

peeps here are targeting 100% against rvr gankguilds, example BO/everlast but like i have say some other place, casual player dont play in these groups and dont run around in 3 healer/shammy/skald/tanks groups.
have try several times whit my healer in emain and get easy to groups but 90% time i was only healer (even whitout shammy) and sometimes we was running around rm speed.

optimized rvr groups is different thing comparing random groups, this is same in 3 realms.
sadly all whining from alb/hibs is made assuming 100% peeps run these optimised rvr groups.

i can bet some peeps who wanna try mids, oh so easy classes, find easily accounts to buy.

 

[Naetha]

well, albs maybe? isnt overpowered but same situation what mids.
albs have own killer classes, sadly dont see so often but they exist.
reaver is one nasty piece of junk whit 1h weapon/shield and near 1k dmg, necro (buffed one) unkillable by melee.
paladin is 1v1 insane good.
inf?! well everybody know this foty.
minst oh boy i hate this class, poor but groupped whit inf/scout need nerf.
cab and dots, mids version dont come even close etc etc

Reavers are a great class - I'd much rather have a reaver in my group than another merc. I don't think I've heard of a reaver doing anywhere near 1000 damage in one hit - my RR5 reaver friend did 600 damage once with a nice crit on a caster, and when we duel a Leviathan will hit me for ~300 damage (including proc). Thanes would do this much damage if they specced their weapon to 50 - they have the same number of spec points, and are on the same damage table, so there's no reason why they can't, and they also have the option of going 2handed with no penalties.

Necros unkillable in melee - thats a load of bull - they're not particularly easy but perfectly doable - and let's face it, any buffed character is very difficult to kill. And look at the Mid equivalent in the bonedancer...

Paladins are great in PvE - in RvR they are good if they're in a 1 on 1 situation, but for all their defence, they still hit like a damp woolly mitten (like the ones my grandmother used to knit ) Their main utility comes from End-chant - if it wasn't for that then they would never get into opted RvR groups.

Infiltrators have the edge on low RR NS's and SBs at the moment - for all the cries of nerf with regard to dragonfang I doubt that will be around for much longer. The assassin classes could be improved by toning down the stun on DF, and allowing SBs access to thrust weapons.

Minstrels are a stealth class in keeping with the 'aim' of the realm as it were - traditionally midgard is the melee realm blah blah so skalds are a tank/speed class, Hibernia is the healer/caster realm blah so bards have buffs and heals. If a minstel didn't have stealth, then it would need something pretty nice in return, otherwise nobody would want to play them. They are overpowered when combined with other stealth classes due to their high utility, but they're not that good. Ablative is nice, but only really effective if your opponent hits like a paladin, and other than that they have no defence at all. Maybe an interesting change would be to give minstrels speccable shield and/or parry instead of stealth? Would never happen, but just an idea...

Cabalists are good at dotting. They are however, useless at anything else - they do more damage with their dots and have access to a quickcast, but that is the only benefit they have over shammies. A shammy is in chain, has perma-sprint, buffs, insta-disease, ae root, and a viable second spec line. Also the damage difference between cabalist and shaman dots is minimal, and only comes into effect because cabalists can buff their intelligence, while shammies can't buff their piety.

http://camelotvault.ign.com/thegame/guides/april03/shaman2.shtml#96


Oh and by the way, I'm not trying to make out that Alb is a gimp realm - far from it, I just don't like unfounded beliefs that its as overpowered as it is.

 

[Littles]

Omg! So many mids crying cos there savages get a slight nerf.

My advice is to get yourself a skald and follow radarlast round for an hour and learn from them. Key role being the "navigator" who must locate a hill the albs go over and time it so the mid group gos over at same time. Insta mezz, gank the sorcerer, game over. If the sorcerer gets rezzed, gank him again.

Setup a /laugh macro if the minstrel starts to mezz and spam it.

Every realm has there advantages and disadvantages. Just get on with what you got or change realms if you feel that hard done by.

 

[Mavericky]

A shammy is in chain, has perma-sprint, buffs, insta-disease, ae root, and a viable second spec line. Also the damage difference between cabalist and shaman dots is minimal, and only comes into effect because cabalists can buff their intelligence, while shammies can't buff their piety.

You do realise that the the AOE dots and AOE root are in the cave line and the buffs (end regen etc etc) are in the augmentation line, you cant have it all. Oh and unlike cabbies, shammys single and AOE dots cant stack

 

[Jace]

"Cabalists are good at dotting. They are however, useless at anything else."

<cabalist party political broadcast>

Correction about the common misconception that Cabalists simply dot everything.

Depending on spec Cabalists are now the strongest unassisted single target nuker in Albion, couple him with a Body sorc assisting on his target and you're looking at a sick amount of damage. Cabalists also bring aoe disease which many people rate as the best spell in the game atm. Add other abilities such as tough pet, snare, dot, life transfer, endless power and you've got a v handy class . . . so wake up Albion and give me RvR groups ffs

</cabalist party political broadcast>

 

[Ivan]

You do realise that the the AOE dots and AOE root are in the cave line and the buffs (end regen etc etc) are in the augmentation line, you cant have it all. Oh and unlike cabbies, shammys single and AOE dots cant stack

but....... but....... but ..... Hi der Buffbots at PK

 

[rivan]

Necros unkillable in melee - thats a load of bull - they're not particularly easy but perfectly doable - and let's face it, any buffed character is very difficult to kill. And look at the Mid equivalent in the bonedancer...

bonedancer isn't particularly hard to kill in melee or otherwise given how ineffective pets are in rvr. ofc 1 on 1 in ideal situations the bd can excell, but in real situations he'll just have mezzed healers and get 2 or 3 hitted by a bard

:touch: