Raid Leaders

[St.Anger]

Well, since this turned out the pro/contra merc thread: I'm with you Merc, amongs all the living dead, you're a youngster with a pronounced opinion, the initiative to try and do things better where you think others failed. It's easy say what's wrong and do nothing, a lot harder to try and be helpfull for a community. Tbh, that's how i want my politicians in the future so: Merc for president !! :worthy: (but not yet plz )

 

[vavires]

OK I'm a total Mid noob but I thought I'd chip in...

If someone is willing to go through the sh*t of leading a raid which gets me the BG steps I need then they can keep all the loot if they want afaic. I know I would never have the patience to lead that kind of raid myself so I'm just grateful that they're willing to do it. If they're willing to have the additional patience to lotto the loot afterwards then that's just icing on the cake for me.

One of the raid leaders criticized in this thread for greed recently helped me get some group steps... There was absolutely no reason for them to do so... They don't know me personally... I'm just some noob Hib they killed once or twice in a BG. I didn't even notice the Immo Ring drop & afaic they could have kept it anyway as their just reward for helping me, but no, they insisted I needed it more than they did.

If that's greed I need to recheck my definition of the word.

u killed me to,... once or twice

 

[mercury]

Who me?

Well, since this turned out the pro/contra merc thread: I'm with you Merc, amongs all the living dead, you're a youngster with a pronounced opinion, the initiative to try and do things better where you think others failed. It's easy say what's wrong and do nothing, a lot harder to try and be helpfull for a community. Tbh, that's how i want my politicians in the future so: Merc for president !! :worthy: (but not yet plz )

Lol. Tx for that my friend. You appear to one Belgian guy not too far up his own fundament. However, I doubt I'd get very far in politics lacking the power of speech - and anyway I prefer a more honest career such as money laundering or armed robbery.

I think now I'm supposed to lay rep points on you then crow about it to show my mates how cool I am. But no need - you already know that.

 

[Wilburn]

Stated the below argument in another thread, so below is copy/paste (+1)

This argument is going nowwhere, so stop arguing. In my opinion different raidleaders have different rules. Some raids you want to be a part of, some you dont. Having been on all kinds of mlraids, from the first lead by durgi - recent being led by Vavi, I for one wanna claim that times have changed.

If a good raid leader decides to change realm and host his own raids, with his own rules using the same setgroup to complete the raids, then he can do so.

But there is alot of people in this game, struggeling hard to get items needed to be leet, and they often participate in these kinds of raids, because they often can get to see certan drops fall, get lottoed off to someone, who they are able to make deal about the certain item with, and thereby get a hold of the item. They cant do that when there is no raidlotto afterwards.

Raidleaders should collect all loot, salvage and destroy all the crap, keep the rare drops for end lotto. If lotto is held straight after each mlraid, this brings lotto down to lottoing over only a handfull of drops, and not the 1000 of crap items that drop during the raid. Noone wants 3 hours lotto after a 6 hours raid, that was oldschool. <thinks back at the days where one would have to type the drops into the /bu /chat>

last, if i dont make sence, ignore me. Im not taking sides here, just saying both sides of this argument have a point. Bring those points together and get along.

 

[mercury]

reply

Replied to elsewhere, but why you trying to stop me having a bit of fun? I'm still about 6-1 down. Ive done all me homework and school doesn't open till next week...
I thought Forums were for argument - we can all Gratz our m8s in /as

 

[Golena]

But there is alot of people in this game, struggeling hard to get items needed to be leet, and they often participate in these kinds of raids, because they often can get to see certan drops fall, get lottoed off to someone, who they are able to make deal about the certain item with, and thereby get a hold of the item. They cant do that when there is no raidlotto afterwards.

If you NEED an item then i'm going to go out on a limb and assume you've bothered to find out which mob it drops off. When you get to that mob you can simply watch to see if the item drops then PM the person who picks it up off the ground to find out who in his group it went to.
If you've not bothered to find out which items you need then there's a ME who will let you search happily through the available items out there for trade.

The only people who suffer are those afk'ing at the back, and if raidleaders get abuse for not catering to them, then something's very wrong!

Raidleaders should collect all loot, salvage and destroy all the crap, keep the rare drops for end lotto. If lotto is held straight after each mlraid, this brings lotto down to lottoing over only a handfull of drops, and not the 1000 of crap items that drop during the raid. Noone wants 3 hours lotto after a 6 hours raid, that was oldschool.

Even if you get the lotto's down to 10 minutes, and you'll be destroying a lot of drops on ML9 for instance to get it down to that, your still adding an hour and a half+ to the days raid! It might not sound like much but 90 minutes is a long time to spend for pretty much zero benefit to 99% of the people there. That's assuming that you can read the roll results quickly and people are prompt at collecting their items. That's not adding the time you spend waiting around because half the BG refuses to move as a soloer got the killing blow on a mob and now has gone afk with the loot on the floor (and on a full days raid you can add 30 minutes for this alone!), or someone whining because you destroyed a crap item but they came purely to get that.. You've now turned a 9 hour raid into a 11+ hour raid, and for what?

For those that don't know, if you get the kill on a mob and it drops nice stuff, you can always just leave the BG and pick it into your pack anyway, and there's nothing the raid leader can do about it.. except have a BG full of people whining they are suddenly getting ripped off!

Lotto's on ML rushes is now old school in the other realms.. Midgard has fallen behind somewhat because your most famous raid leader was still pre-claiming, which needed bg loot turned on.

 

[mercury]

Lotto's on ML rushes is now old school in the other realms.. Midgard has fallen behind somewhat because your most famous raid leader was still pre-claiming, which needed bg loot turned on.

My italics. I think that says it all.

 

[islef]

I think it is a good idea merc, but ML wise i would join any raid leader that i know can do a smooth raid that dont end up taking forever. I join raids to get my chars ready for rvr, nothing else, it is a necessary (sp?) evil for me. Needed for the part of this game that i enjoy, RvR.
Should there be a person that did the raids the same way as Censi did his, but claiming every valuable drop, i would join because the raids were the most effecient raids i have been on. (Not trying to be a brown tongue or what you call it, just stating how i feel about raids, and hoping thereby to give a bit of meaning to why some like me, might not care at all about loot)

/regards isle.

 

[mercury]

Tx

Perfectly valid viewpoint, I have no issue with any of it. Two of Censi's raids were, if truth be told, run by me but there ya go.

ML10 without proper loot arrangements tho, is something I don't want to think about. We usually have a great time with Dharken and the proper lotto at the end is all part of the fun.

Anyway, all good things must come to an end. I'm back at school on Monday and busy this week-end, so I'll be shutting up (no cheering at the back). I learned a few things and unlearned some others. Vav is not nearly as bad as I make out, I'm ten times worse than he'll ever know (I hope), Urgat is perceptive (if a little rough round the edges) and Golena is just a thug. Ex-Hib McK may yet end up as a full-time Mid. Raids will go on just as the leader decides with or without any one particular player - and ofc that's the way it should be.

Thanks to all those who added to my MSN Contact List and for the reps.

Catch y'all in game

Bent, but not broken; dented but not holed



​

 

[Wilburn]

If you NEED an item then i'm going to go out on a limb and assume you've bothered to find out which mob it drops off. When you get to that mob you can simply watch to see if the item drops then PM the person who picks it up off the ground to find out who in his group it went to.
If you've not bothered to find out which items you need then there's a ME who will let you search happily through the available items out there for trade.

The only people who suffer are those afk'ing at the back, and if raidleaders get abuse for not catering to them, then something's very wrong!

Even if you get the lotto's down to 10 minutes, and you'll be destroying a lot of drops on ML9 for instance to get it down to that, your still adding an hour and a half+ to the days raid! It might not sound like much but 90 minutes is a long time to spend for pretty much zero benefit to 99% of the people there. That's assuming that you can read the roll results quickly and people are prompt at collecting their items. That's not adding the time you spend waiting around because half the BG refuses to move as a soloer got the killing blow on a mob and now has gone afk with the loot on the floor (and on a full days raid you can add 30 minutes for this alone!), or someone whining because you destroyed a crap item but they came purely to get that.. You've now turned a 9 hour raid into a 11+ hour raid, and for what?

For those that don't know, if you get the kill on a mob and it drops nice stuff, you can always just leave the BG and pick it into your pack anyway, and there's nothing the raid leader can do about it.. except have a BG full of people whining they are suddenly getting ripped off!

Lotto's on ML rushes is now old school in the other realms.. Midgard has fallen behind somewhat because your most famous raid leader was still pre-claiming, which needed bg loot turned on.

Dude. stop talking to me like im a halfwit, There was nothing in my post you could disagree with. Did you actually read it, or just started typing your own words, and ignored mine ?

 

[Wilburn]

well, sad how this thread is now more about repping your friends. Well if i have to choose sides im all in with mercury. Not because we are best friends, but because those raid ideas are good for the casual player, and Vavi/golana ideas fits the powergamer. Now before you all thrash me about that point, stop and think. Am i a casual player or a powergamer.


well, im a roleplayer, and im all in when Pjuppe says, "lets go kill the roleplayers"

 

[Golena]

Dude. stop talking to me like im a halfwit, There was nothing in my post you could disagree with. Did you actually read it, or just started typing your own words, and ignored mine ?

I actually read your post yes. I'm also not disagreeing with most of it or talking to you like your a halfwit. The line that I picked up on was this one, which seems to be the problem everyone is suffering here. Maybe you meant it in a different way, but it's still a good example of what's wrong with many of the people in this thread, which is why I quoted it. One day people will realise that just because I quoted your post doesn't mean i'm having a personal go at you!

Raidleaders should collect all loot, salvage and destroy all the crap, keep the rare drops for end lotto.

See that's why the entire argument has started.. People seem to think that there's only one way to run a raid.. The way they prefer. Your saying Raid leaders should do this, as if they are doing something wrong if they don't. It's a perfectly valid way of doing a raid sure, the rules there arn't going to work for a fast 1->9 rush however, so there needs to be different rules for different types of raids.. it's what many of the people here seem to be missing. The rules used on a 1 ML raid a day, are going to be different to a 9 ML's in a day raid or a CO5 raid. There's no "here's the rules, your an idiot if you don't do this" approach. They will also change over time, so what worked 2 months ago isn't always the way it should be done tommorow.

Well if i have to choose sides im all in with mercury. Not because we are best friends, but because those raid ideas are good for the casual player, and Vavi/golana ideas fits the powergamer.

And here we go again with the other problem. Assuming you have to take a side in it. You've stated something sensible here, that there's 2 types of raids.. one for the casual types and one for the powergaming types. Why do we need sides, there's 2 ways of doing it. There's not a right or wrong way, so no need to take a side! You don't need to attend every raid, just go to the ones that fit in with your style of game.

As long as raid leaders choose fair rules and state them up front, then don't lie about where the loot went there's not a problem. Yet too many people here feel the need to jump up and down and shout, "if the loot isn't done in the way I want it then i'm going to complain"..

well, im a roleplayer, and im all in when Pjuppe says, "lets go kill the roleplayers"

No-one needs to kill the roleplayers, or those who enjoy PvE, getting lewt and doing lotto's. All they need to do is realise that many of the ML1->9 raids arn't designed for that type of player and ignore the thread.

 

[Wilburn]

Well I actually wasnt taking sides in the argument, but was more trying to show where my point of view lies. One of the things that killed Daoc/is killing Daoc are these hour long/halfday raids. And also one of the reasons why Daoc is so hard approciable by newcomers.

The first ml raids was a 11-12 hour deal on every single raid, partly because noone knew squat about what was going on, and need every single step, lagged in 100 different directions, aggroing mobs from everywhere, died somewhere where they turned left, instead of right, and so on and on. Not gonna start complaing about how hard it was for causal people getting l33t artis before they changed the artifacts, but lets just say i had to do a almost horrible amount of raids to get my hands on Jacinas sash, Silverhorn and ml10 leggings.

Raids now adays try to keep that tradition up, for god knows what reason, doing multible mls in a row, doing 26 different artifacts on same run, which again is hours and hours behind a monitor, trying to keep up with the raid, not lag off, listen to raidleader, and so on and on. Better than the old days, and way faster, I agree, but still a killer for newcomers.

But i agree that the most importaint is to get the step, and not the loot. But a good leader makes sure that good loot is distributed fairly, and not making this game into a Darwinian battleground.

 

[mercury]

Again

Whooo. Thread hijacked some time ago, but I didn't get me knuckles rapped.

Hang on, a minute - its my thread....

Gone today, here tomorrow​