Radar

[Hit ^_^]

Originally posted by Lomald Umilinn
It shouldn't be too hard for them to find out who is using radar and not, they are not allowed to hack into our LAN and scan it but they are however allowed to monitor all traffic from and to their LAN...these radar programs aren't exactly running in stealth mode (which you can check by doing netstat i.e) so for me it makes no sense why they haven't done anything.

afaik they only sniff your local network and dont cuminacate whit
goa's servers at all. or it just scans your mem for the info and wont give any info to any other networks/comps at all?
if its like your saying tho its crazy they havent just banned them all...

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

The program i've been using says "connected to <ip of goas game server here>" when you load it up .. so i am pretty sure they are sending information back to GOA. At least all the radars i know of, linux, unis and windows all sends packets to goas game server.

Edit: I can try and post a screen if anyone can host it ;9

 

[Arnor]

or they could even do like lomald, dl a fucking radar proggie themselves, install it and use it with a gm-account and bait with posing as a 2h pally or a thane or sumt

 

[Sichama]

Hmmm i have no idea how they actually work but in theory they may need to "connect" to the ip address from which they are snifing, but that might just mean that they have found the origin of the data they need to pick from all the traffic, so actually just touching the machine at the other side although traceable in itself it is not different from the thousands of port scan's we all get every day and is not proof that a packet sniffer has started working.

And as long as they just sniff the inbound packets or memory data and use the IP address of the remote pc as an identifier of what to grab or not, it is practically impossible to prove that a client has a packet sniffer instaled, which even if proved again that in tself is not illegal as i have every right to pick apart any inbound traffic i get to my PC, so after that they must prove that i am using the info i sniffed from them to gain an unfair advantage in game.

They might start using better data encryption methods, but even those will get cracked at some point.

I won't comment on Arnor's suggestion as i think/hope was a joke, maybe name and shame is a solution as Tyka suggested, let the community handle it, but again there is this problem of proof, very hard to be absolutely sure that the one naming is to be trusted and isn't only beeing an ass.

 

[Arnor]

pff, whats wrong with my suggestion?

doesnt involve haxxing ppls comps and shit, just simple seeing who beelines for who and from what dist etc.


edit: also name&shame the ones your 100% sure use radar btw lomald

 

[Freppe^^]

radar sucks, damn those ppl whos using it. tho every game involves cheating, so im not suprised.

 

[raithian]

to me hes just pointed out a few facts goa no that some guilds and some ppl are using it yet thay refuse to do a dam thing about it.
there will allways be cheats who refuse to play fair then claim that thay are ubber at rvr and never cheat.
i no of 2 hib guilds that use it and most members have it surly there is some way for goa to detect if a guild or person is using it and kick thm the hell out of the game instantly

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

Originally posted by raithian
to me hes just pointed out a few facts goa no that some guilds and some ppl are using it yet thay refuse to do a dam thing about it.
there will allways be cheats who refuse to play fair then claim that thay are ubber at rvr and never cheat.
i no of 2 hib guilds that use it and most members have it surly there is some way for goa to detect if a guild or person is using it and kick thm the hell out of the game instantly

What he said, 2 hib guilds, 1 mid guild, MAYBE 1 alb guild that I know of/have seen reacting at radar distance to everything.

To arnor: Name and shame would be one thing, I might tell depending on what answer i get from GOA on my report.

I for once have tried it, not with Lomald though but with other chars to see how it worked and stuffs like that .. and IF it worked or if it was just rumors...and when you use it you see which people reacts at ENORMOUS distance from everyone.

 

[iluvatur]

i agree with arnors suggestion, a GM should create an 'invisible to the naked eye zerg/player' and wait for groups to go round or hunt them out. it should be obvious then if they do it alot of times that they use radar. They don't have to 'prove' anything. they can ban your account on a whim. and if these GM's did random tests at random times on random servers would reduce group versus group cheating alot (as its probably more difficult to catch soloers due to the time they play).

ban them all

 

[iluvatur]

oh... and lets just accuse NP, DH and VGN ... nerf rr10 fgs

 

[mandom]

name and shame, if you dont i take it you defending them?

 

[Falcon]

No Mythic/GOA can't detect radar, at least not technically.

Mythic do however put staff onto reported radar users by creating an invisible entity at a set range away from the suspect, if the suspect runs towards this entity that doesn't really exist they're pretty obviously using radar, note that they do this more than once to be totally sure, they do it an awful lot of times and are very careful about their evidence. GOA however agreeably do sod all, most likely because they have a habit of running on as small a budget as possible, so probably aren't willing to put cash into staff's time spent addressing cheaters.

Mythic however could definetely do numerous things at a technical level to stop radar being useful/working at all in the first place, so posting this here is totally useless. E-mailing your findings and an explanation of what you've demonstrated and such to Mythic (and in fact GOAs management) would be a lot more beneficial than posting here, seeing as the people that'll read this thread are totally powerless to change anything.

 

[old.FIN]

ROFLMAO

i played DAOC 18 months and i knew exist of radar after 6 months, and i havent been playg DAOC last 6 months so STFU about saying dont say peeps there is radar


there is some peeps that r clever enough to type in google , daoc+radar+donload, and some of those peeps also know how to read, right?


so stfu about cheat free daoc and also stfu about dont tell peeps---

and moderators, plz edit but dont ban, ty

 

[halgaard]

christ.. just did a google search and found the radar thingy after about 10secs of searching o_0

clicked on the link and read and saw some screeny's of this "radar". man did i get depressed when reading/seeing the screenys what you are able to do with it
it actually made me log out of daoc and go watch television instead of playing.

gotta say thumbs up at Lomald for having the guts to come here and tell the community about this, eventhough he did something wrong, his intention was right.
Hope you have reported every bugger you saw using radar, and name and shame the fucktards

 

[ab_fluid]

I say name and shame, goa won't do shit so we may as well make the radar users lives hell

 

[Sichama]

I only have two problems with the name and shame policy.

1) You can never ever be absolutely sure that whoever named and shamed isn't wrong/spitefull/revengfull/idiot... and a thousand other posible things.
2) Beyond knowing, there is nothing more you can do to the cheater, because short of a personal confesion anything else can't be proven for the above reason, and even if you are 1000% absolutely sure that he is using a radar so what how exactly will you make his virtual life hell....empty threats imo.

So because it is in every aspect an imperfect system, it only serves as a personal curosity satisfier and can actually result into seriously harming someone inocent, neither is really an acceptable thing for me.

 

[xajorkith]

Two points from me:
Intelligence?

If a slaughtered group of Mids report on /as:
"[EMAIN] usual 6fg + 1fg stealther adds, Alb zerg f**kers camping MMG"
every 1fg of Mids (in same /as) that left MTK will turn back to MTK.

Similarly many guild groups employ stealther spotters to give locations (in /cg) of enemy either via /loc or description. I've spotted for White Rose and Blizzard in Emain and Odin's.

Lomald do your tests that show your alleged cheaters also show they were not tipped off by intelligence, how do you tell the difference (genuine questions not a whine)?


Bias?
Also I do find it odd, that Lomald who played predominately as an Alb on Excalibur found two sets of cheaters in Albions most hated enemy (Mids) and one set of cheaters from the realm with least population (Hib), yet found none from Albion which has the highest population, umm a little biased to me.

 

[Alpha Male]

For your information xajorkith, a certain alb cabalist who used to roam emain along with a speedbot was reported by hibs and albs for using radar and was subsequently banned from the game. I'm sure more bannings will follow, from hib/mid and albion.

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

To xajorkith: Yes I played on Alb/Exc but I am not protecting them at all. During 1½ month of successive radar using I've seen which guilds and which soloers reacts on ENORMOUS range at precisely the right times, at precisely the perfect timing.

Like I said if you try it and use it you will find it very easy to find out who is using it becase they DO react on YOU at radar distance. And I wouldn't be sure of that they are using radar without tests but when the same driver and the same soloer acts zick-zacking to avoid the zerg and kill the hurted ones and the smaller groups over and over again without running into the zerg at the most weird places where stealtehrs, that i know never go there, can't give them information.

What I mean is that after a few times I am sure that they use radar, becuase the first 3-4 times they could actually got intelligence from stealthers however it's impossible to react what 2 mid guilds do and 1 hib guild do based on stealther information.

Note: Accusing the Driver of guilds as that's what must be the cheater maybe not the whole guild ... but shame on them as well.


To Sichama: Totally agree with you and thats why I firstly leave it to GOA as they *are* reported every bunch of them. With date, time, realm rank, guild, /loc, zone, screenshot.

Note: I even said I used radar and that's why I am sure they used it as well ... GOA haven't banned anything for me yet... sucks doesn't it?


To halgaard: Yes it's very sad many people don't know exactly WHAT kind of information you get from these programs .. it's SO much more then radar. And i have reported everyone of them, including me saying that i used it to see if anyone else was.


To old.FIN: Yes meto. But at least back then you needed skills to get the radar..no children age 10 from certain countries could use it back then. Now it's free for everyone and sooo much more then radar as well.

I've been playing in US lately and believe me when i say that radar is as common as buffbots are over there. On top of that MA and ToA, kind of crap game.

Edit: Lookg what i got in my private msg from a forum mod here ... they really don't like to speak about radar? do they use them as well? *annoyed*

Hi there,

Can you please stop posting about the radar program? I know it exists, i know people use it and i know you want to post about it but don't do that on these forums.

There are people who might not know about radar and they don't need to be informed by you through this forum.

If you want to discuss stuff about cheating in general sure, but we don't need detailed information about any cheating program (e.g. screenshots, chance of beeing caught etc. etc.)

Thanx!

Greetings Ziva

---------------

I'm just glad these forums finally shutdown... becomine a piece of crap shit where the mods don't let us express nor discuss things about the game WHICH is by far things that we need to take actions against and actually discuss...but then again it's barryswhine.

 

[mandom]

we got the rights to know whos been using it, name and shame!

 

[adari]

lomalds stupidity always seems to reach a higher level

 

[Legolias]

Originally posted by adari
lomalds stupidity always seems to reach a higher level

At least he has balls.

 

[Ravenbourne]

I really do think the community should know who is using radar as they are spoiling the game for everyone else but who is to say that you are the person to do it, its out there and very easy to get hold of, mentioning it on here is not an advertisement for it people already know about it.

 

[adari]

Originally posted by Legolias
At least he has balls.

who the hell are you random flamming little one.

 

[Legolias]

Originally posted by adari
who the hell are you random flamming little one.

Such anger in this poor kid.

 

[taen]

name and shame .. we r dying to know who it is (even though we all have a fair idea)

 

[ab_fluid]

Originally posted by adari
who the hell are you random flamming little one.

ok, if u feel post count is an issue...... I am pretty well known on the boards and i don't think postcount is an issue here, Lomald has doen some good research i just wish he would name + shame leaders (Not guilds, as in all honesty if u said VGN were using radar i would not have a clue considering how many zergs gank us). At least then when killing xxx player we can give them shit, or jsut spam them 24/7 till the quit as they deserve

 

[Lomald Umilinn]

http://camelot.allakhazam.com/news/sdetail421.html?story=421

http://daoc.catacombs.com/forum_news.cfm?ThreadKey=2&DefMessage=6031

articles involving talks about radar, from mythic and the producers of the radar apps.

Note: I DID NEVER USE RADAR WHILE PLAYING WITH Lomald. SO PLEASE STOP TELLING HIM IN-GAME TO STOP CHEATING, FLAME ME NOT THE ONE PLAYING HIM RIGHT NOW! AS HE DIDN'T USE IT!!!

Here is what you can get, name and shame, but then again maybe i'll get flamed .. the only way you actually can get the information i've obtained is by .. cheating yourself with radar.

Hib guilds:
Llaw Arian (different drivers)
Celtic Fist (different drivers)
Dem Hibbies

Mid Guilds:
Nolby Pride (Different drivers, had hard to find any specific one... not whole guild, just a few in their groups who givs radar info)
Jack Herer (Different drivers, also hard to find any specific one)

Soloers/Duoers:
Zarko (Hero)
Mercuria (Bard)
Fame (Bard)
Tomatera (Bard)

During my 1½ month using radar these are a few of those i can remember, mainly becuase these were obvious and actively playing.

I have suspicions thoughts about albion players of course, it would be wrong of me to meantion them , yet, as they aren't even FAR as obvious as those players/guilds.

In albion i noted Minstrels, Sorcerers, Cabalists that were suspicios, 2 guilds of which i have thought of but need more time to be sure. When i know, i'll meantion them as well.

I have played in Alb/exc, Mid/Exc, Hib/Exc so i have seen it from all different angles, been in the guilds that used them. So at least I am sure of what im saying, however there is *NO WAY* to proov this other then let GOA handle my reports.

So if you are going to flame me, please do so. At least i've used it to discover who are using it against us, and that was pretty obvious before as well, wasn't it?

Note: VGN may zerg, however i found no times where they could been using radar. GoL, HB, FC ... thoughts have been made, but let me be clear that i would never think they used it based on what i've seen and how they react.

Now flame on etc etc etc.

Note; I was tired when i wrote it, i mistook sheph for bards named: Fame and Tomatera. Sheph duo with them around apk so was my mistake mixing them up, still sheph was with them.

Ps- Next version of this program will display IF your enemy is using this program as well Ds-

Edit: Note taken from radar documentation program with urls and download links masked out and a few cencored words, this is taken from the manual.

xxx is an open source Win32-based packet sniffer radar program by the maker of the yyy, which in turn is based on zzz. In two years there has been one minimal change to X's code to maintain protocol compatibility with Dark Age.

I've known about radar programs for a long time, and I'm sure Mythic knows they exist too. Why is it then that in 2 years they haven't done one thing to stop radar from working? Why has nothing ever been done to even make the hack programmers' jobs more difficult? For a company which claims to be doing everything it can to stop cheaters they certainly aren't trying to prevent it. Mythic relies on DAoC's players to police themselves and report people suspected of cheating. The burden of finding them is on the player and Mythic does not attempt to stop the cheat from working. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

If you feel that you're paying for service from a company that should at least be providing a reasonably secure playing environment, I encourage you to e-mail Mythic and tell them that you expect them to make an effort to stop radar programs, since stopping their users will follow.

 

[ceix]

oh we use radar, nice, i didnt know

 

[Hestetun]

u know that sheph isent bard irght ?

and u also know he dont lead DH grps right ?