Racism in DAoC and Forums

  • Thread starter Roo Stercogburn
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R

Roo Stercogburn

Guest
This is not intended to be an aggressive post and I'd appreciate anyone who posts any thoughts afterwards keep them civil.

This is something I've noticed around here from the start and I finally decided it was time to post my thoughts on the subject with the intention of making people look at themselves.

I once heard someone define a racist as someone who when they see a person enter a room notices if they are black. I disagree with this because it is human nature to focus on any difference in an area. So if you have a bowl filled with green apples and there is one red apple you tend to notice the red apple. However it did make me think long and hard about the subject and it made me wonder about people unknowingly being racist.

If you ask someone if they are a racist they always say no. However, a rather frightening number of people will say "I'm not racist, but I don't like <insert ethnic group here>" which if they thought about it by definition it makes them a racist.

Nobody likes to be called a racist and people will invent all kinds of reasons to justify possibly the most insidious form of bigotry a human can be guilty of. Racism is one of those things that creeps in by degrees; its rarely at the fever pitch of Hitler style hatred.

Racism is possibly one of the most divisive issues of modern times. It can start with something as simple as a few careless comments that cause someone pain then that person in return becomes racially sensitive and begins to harbour animosity back at the source and so the spiral begins.

Also, one of the things that makes racism sometimes harder to pin down is the fact that you can get racial humour, especially between friends and it becomes a murky grey area defining when that becomes outright racist.

Racism has got to be the ultimate no-win situation.

So to link this into DAoC...

I've noticed a rather disturbing trend on the European forums where people are lashing out at players from other countries quite openly and thinking they are justified in doing it for one reason or another. They manage to throw racial slurs in left and right, saying that they are making a point about opposing opinions yet to anyone even half awake its obvious there is a very pointed piece of racism being flung about.

If someone else is racist that doesn't give YOU the right to be racist in return. Rise above it, be bigger than they are.

I've seen people making anti-race posts thinking its perfectly alright since they claim certain countries like America are themselves anti-this or anti-that. The same people that make the comments make out that they are better simply by being European.

The hypocrisy is staggering.

I realise that the range of ages of people that post on forums is very large so you can be dealing with immature uninformed opinions thoughtlessly posted or someone who is cold and calculating merely trying to get a reaction from other forum users.
I also realise that this is a 'fluff' place, not somewhere for serious world shaking discussion but sometimes you have to lift your head up and look around.

I have purposely not quoted from threads or things I've seen in game, this is a general discussion of the subject, not an attempt to point fingers or blame.

Be aware of racism and try to make an effort to tolerate other people of other ethnic groups and nationalities even if individuals from these other places are less than ambassadors for their own countries. You don't have to be watching for racism in every comment and every word, that can be even worse in its own way.

Try to keep a balanced view of everyone you meet and talk to, do not judge them because of where they came from.

We all come from the same place.

Earth.
 
J

Jupitus

Guest
Originally posted by Roo Stercogburn
We all come from the same place.

Earth.

Well most of us do Roo ;)

Nice post, well written and a nicely made point old chap, as always.

Jup.
 
B

Brannor McThife

Guest
Oh gawd. For once I actually agree with one of his posts...what is the world comming to... :p

Not being from Europe, and having grown up in one of the most racist countries ever (South Africa), I was quite shocked to see that here in Europe, there is such open animosity towards other countries (English hate French, USA, then Germans, etc. etc.) claiming, as Roo put it, that "they did it first".

Segregation has forever existed in society, and always will. It's cultural. To deny that is to be blind. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to live within your own culture. However. Racism, is where you bear ill will, even action, against another culture. I love the fact that my country (South Africa) has so many cultures, so many different African tribes, each with it's own language, history and tradition. But I don't hate them. Hell, if I did, do you think I would have lived in a university residence, where, in the top floor of 68, I was the only white person? Pffft.

You lot that are growing up now, 13-20 year olds. Learn from history, don't repeat the mistakes your parents made (global reference).

-G
 
O

old.LandShark

Guest
My comment here is that people who are either superficially (casually, one might say) or genuinely racist.... well, unless they've had a really underprivileged upbringing, which I find unlikely if they own PCs and connections etc, I'd say they've been exposed to the truth and a more-or-less unbiased viewpoint often enough. If their attitude were ever to change I think they'd be unlikely to still have it at age 15+, really.
 
O

Ottar

Guest
From a song named "National Brotherhood Week":

All the black folks hate the white folks
all the white folks hate the balck folks
All the hindus hate all the muslims
and everybody hates the jews..

;)

Ottar
 
N

ning

Guest
Originally posted by Brannor McThife

I was quite shocked to see that here in Europe, there is such open animosity towards other countries (English hate French, USA, then Germans, etc. etc.) claiming, as Roo put it, that "they did it first". -G

Well there is not this problem in the rest of Europe (France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc...). UK is the most anti-european country (don't want Euro currency, don't open their border, always slowing the UE, etc...). They think they are the 51 states of the USA just because they speak the same language (but the americans think UK is their dog ...)
I think "English hate French" (or German, or the rest of Europe) because the English don't speak a foreigh language so they can't be open minded (cause they are uninformed) (for example "frogeater" ? I live in France (but i'm german) and i have never seen someone in France eat a frog !! This expression don't exist in Germany. I think it's something the English saw at TV and that they believe).
If you go on german forum about DAOC you'll never see a word against the french (they dont say GOA = all the french, like on this forum because many of them speak french or have ever travelled in France wheras the English speak only english).
 
T

The Kingpin

Guest
Most of the racists, on this forums, is from stupid kids.
For example, go over to the excal forum. you see threads like;

"FFS GOA SERVER CRASH!!11"
Then you get replys like, "what do you expect they are french"

And all that load of trash, why people judge the actions of few on so many, i just put it down to being a child, and not understanding he way the world works.

Its true, ive done it myself, but then again, i did give reason to why i said the comment i did.
 
K

kemor

Guest
/claps

MMORPGs are here to get people together, to see beyond the age, colour, language, sex, appearance, wealth, culture or religion. Maybe if the adults of tomorrow could learn tolerance through games like that and use it in the real world, we'd avoid to repeat the mistakes of the past as some said.
As Roo said, most of us are from the same little planet we like to call Earth, and no, I do not mean that we should not tolerate Martians!

May sound a bit "cliché", but sometimes, it's simple...


We have a very low tolerance for racism in DAoC, so if you are thinking about something not-too-clever to answer to that guy who just insulted you or killed you (camlann), think again and as some guy in West Side Story said:


"Boy, boy, crazy boy,
Get cool, boy!
Got a rocket in your pocket,
Keep coolly cool, boy!
Don't get hot,
'Cause man, you got
Some high times ahead.
Take it slow and Daddy-O,
You can live it up and die in bed!

Boy, boy, crazy boy!
Stay loose, boy!
Breeze it, buzz it, easy does it.
Turn off the juice, boy!
Go man, go,
But not like a yo-yo schoolboy.
Just play it cool, boy,
Real cool! "
 
S

Solid

Guest
Originally posted by Roo Stercogburn
Racism is possibly one of the most divisive issues of modern times. It can start with something as simple as a few careless comments that cause someone pain then that person in return becomes racially sensitive and begins to harbour animosity back at the source and so the spiral begins.

I find this holds very true for me, being a member of a one time "Ethnic Minority" in Britain I have dealt with a lot of Racism during my school days and usually from a distinct group of "Native" people and this in turn has led to animosity back at said group its true but hard not to let happen.

Its strange that Racism is still rife in places like my beloved London considering the diversity we see day to day in most cosmopolitan cities today.

We are as mixed in as we have ever been in this day and age and Racism is still rife in all forms and extremes, lets all take some of Roo's advise cos to be honest its damn good stuff :D

/me ponders
/me makes mental notes
/me writes on paper cos I know I will forget

i got a mighty "Here Here" for the Roomeister :clap:
 
B

Brannor McThife

Guest
Originally posted by kemor
...as some guy in West Side Story said:...
OMG! You old fart! How the hell do you expect kids of today to relate to West Side Story? :D

:touch:

-G
 
V

Vell

Guest
Originally posted by Brannor McThife
OMG! You old fart! How the hell do you expect kids of today to relate to West Side Story? :D

:touch:

-G


Well, don't know about the other 'kids', but we were forced to sing West Side Story in music lessons at school :p
 
G

Gog

Guest
Originally posted by ning
Well there is not this problem in the rest of Europe (France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc...). UK is the most anti-european country (don't want Euro currency, don't open their border, always slowing the UE, etc...). They think they are the 51 states of the USA just because they speak the same language (but the americans think UK is their dog ...)

Sounds like you are quite anti-UK yourself :). The UK has not stated that they don't want Euro currency(although that may be current public opinion at the moment), because we have not yet voted on the issue. In fact, if I remember correctly the last statement by the Chancellor was along the lines of 'Yes join, but not yet'. The UK also has one of the most open borders in the world, let alone Europe. You only have to look at the numbers of people granted leave to remain here or granted indefinite work permits to see that.

I think "English hate French" (or German, or the rest of Europe) because the English don't speak a foreigh language so they can't be open minded (cause they are uninformed) (for example "frogeater" ? I live in France (but i'm german) and i have never seen someone in France eat a frog !! This expression don't exist in Germany. I think it's something the English saw at TV and that they believe).

I too have never seen someone eat a frog, but I have seen frogs-legs for sale in hypermarkets in France, which is where the slang comes from, much like the French call the British 'le rost beef' (sp.) after the traditional English meal. In general I don't think the 'English hate French' any more than they hate any other nationality. It probably all comes from being an island race, who was at war with most other European countries at some point for most of the last 1000 years. The British also probably feel more of a connection with the USA as there were many British colonies set up there, unlike in Europe (although that doesnt mean we hate them any less :) )

Racism is fortunately not something I have ever encountered first-hand. I completely agree that some comments I have seen made here/in-game could be construed as offensive, and that it is best not to lower yourself to that level in response. After all 2 wrongs do not beget a right.

Anyway, to the question I wanted to put to people:

I grew up with the likes of Bernard Manning on television, when it was considered acceptable to make comments which would now be perceived as racist/sexist/whatever. The pendulum now seems to have swung to the opposite end of the spectrum where any comment made runs the risk of being branded 'racially offensive'. This runs especially true of jokes, for example the Englishman/Irishman/Scotsman variety.

Do you think the whole 'political correctness' thing has gone a little too far?

Apologies if this doesn't make sense, its late and I need some vodka.
 
L

lakih

Guest
Kemor i think you fogot where you where posting... well as the friendly elf i am (no, i dont help santa) ill translate it for you:

(apperently originaly from some West Side Story dude)

"bOY, B0Y, Cr@zY boY,
g3+ co0L, B0Y!
g0+ 4 R0Cke+ 1N Y0uR POCke+,
k3EP Co0lly c00L, BOy!
Don'T 9eT H0t,
'C4u5E M@N, j00 9ot
50ME High +1m3$ 4He4D.
+aKE 1+ $l0W 4ND d4DDy-o,
YoU CAN l1vE i+ uP @nD Die 1n bED!

80y, 80y, cR@zY bOY!
5t4Y l00$E, BOY!
BR33Z3 IT, 8UZz iT, eA$y Do3S 1+.
TURN 0Phf t3H jU1CE, 8oy!
g0 M4N, go,
Bu+ nOT lIK3 4 YO-yo 5CHOol80Y.
Ju5+ pl4Y 1T Co0l, 80y,
Re4l COOL! "



:m00:
 
T

The Kingpin

Guest
Originally posted by lakih
Kemor i think you fogot where you where posting... well as the friendly elf i am (no, i dont help santa) ill translate it for you:

(apperently originaly from some West Side Story dude)

"bOY, B0Y, Cr@zY boY,
g3+ co0L, B0Y!
g0+ 4 R0Cke+ 1N Y0uR POCke+,
k3EP Co0lly c00L, BOy!
Don'T 9eT H0t,
'C4u5E M@N, j00 9ot
50ME High +1m3$ 4He4D.
+aKE 1+ $l0W 4ND d4DDy-o,
YoU CAN l1vE i+ uP @nD Die 1n bED!

80y, 80y, cR@zY bOY!
5t4Y l00$E, BOY!
BR33Z3 IT, 8UZz iT, eA$y Do3S 1+.
TURN 0Phf t3H jU1CE, 8oy!
g0 M4N, go,
Bu+ nOT lIK3 4 YO-yo 5CHOol80Y.
Ju5+ pl4Y 1T Co0l, 80y,
Re4l COOL! "



:m00:

Its funny because its true..
 
V

Validus

Guest
Originally posted by Ottar
From a song named "National Brotherhood Week":

All the black folks hate the white folks
all the white folks hate the balck folks
All the hindus hate all the muslims
and everybody hates the jews..

;)

Ottar

i'm a jew. iv'e had plenty of you english chaps throw a few jew jokes at me, but iv'e learned to live with it. heck, i even started making friends with the ones that made fun of me.

however, that experience has changed my view on the UK.
not majorly, i mean, i know most of you arent racist as i once thought as i first started to get to know you.

IMHO, everyone can be unique and destereotyped if you get to know them well.

we in israel have developed major racism towards the arabs.(another stereotype about israeli folks btw, so it might not be true)

each individual has a different opinion about "why should we hate arabs" or "why don't we stop hating arabs" etc.

i for example, have no extreme racism towards any nation.
however, when it comes to socialising with friends, the most extreme people(who are also the charismatic ones) speak up and everyone nods to their bidding, and making jokes about arabs and other things. let me end this with a well known quote: "if you cant beat them, join them".
 
N

ning

Guest
Originally posted by Gog
The UK also has one of the most open borders in the world, let alone Europe. You only have to look at the numbers of people granted leave to remain here or granted indefinite work permits to see that.

I was speaking about the Shengen Agreement.
 
F

Fafnir

Guest
I've always thought religion is the root of all evil, not the color of anyone elses skin. Just look how many things that have been commited in the name of a religion, well might be thoose things would have happend anyway, just found another thing to blame it on.

I think its a dangerous road to walk on if you cant joke about the differences between people. This would be a very dull world to live in if there where no difference between people.

I've lived outside sweden for 5 years, i've lived in Germany, France, Italy, Spain, US. I've seen there are things that makes us different. Its theese different things that make this world worth living in. And there will always be people afraid of new things.

But what is rascism, and what is not? Whats rascist to you, might not be to me. While I lived in the US, my mates who where African Amercian called eachother the N word between them, and that was ok, but if I used the N word it was wrong. Why?

The main problem in Europe today I think is the way the goverments handle refugees. Yes its ok to let them live where they want, but i dont want to pay everything they have thru my taxes for the rest of their lives. There should be things demanded they do. Like learn the language of the country they come to, well not like a native, but able to make themselves understood. And unfortunate many of the refugees comming to europe is not thoose that need to come here.

I've lost my grandfather to a bomb in Israel, but i dont hate all palestinians or muslims because of what a small group did. I hate thoose people who did it. Even thou i will never know.
He survived Treblinka, and i dont hate the germans for what happend during WWII, I hate thoose who commited the
genocide.

I'm Swedish and dam proud of it, even when i have blood from swedish, belgian, russian, english, german, and french blood in my veins. (My father have researched about our genealogy)

I'm Swedish and will always be Swedish, does that make me rascist?
 
K

Krakatau

Guest
Originally posted by Roo Stercogburn

Try to keep a balanced view of everyone you meet and talk to, do not judge them because of where they came from.

We all come from the same place.

Earth.

Stop being a racist will you Earthling - we're from ->S P A C E<- :D

Good post :clap:
 
C

calif

Guest
Originally posted by ning
Well there is not this problem in the rest of Europe (France, Germany, Italy, Spain, etc...). UK is the most anti-european country (don't want Euro currency, don't open their border, always slowing the UE, etc...).

Well I nothing against any person unless they do wrong by me.
Ok yes here in the UK public option( me included) is against the Euro currency.
Lets see why....In the UK we have the lowest inflation rate in Europe,we have one of the lowest unemployment rates in Europe,the pound is a known currency on the international market and is strong.So why should we give up a strong economy for a weaker one? (I am against the SYSTEM not the people of Europe).


Originally posted by ning
I was speaking about the Shengen Agreement.

You mean we still have to show our passports to enter I take it,Well yes you do but it takes all of 2 mins to do and I point out that in ALL of Europe it is still a requirement to carry a valid passport,also I have been asked to show mine when entering other EU countries.

Originally posted by ning
They think they are the 51 states of the USA just because they speak the same language

My god that's the last thing the British would want,do you not get it,the British( according to public option) WANT to remain independent,make our own laws and live as we like.We do not want to be part of the United states of America or the United states of Europe.
Yes we have strong tries to the US and why shouldn`t we?
lets take a look at some of the proposals coming from Europe.....
the Euro Army say.......Mutual defence of Europe has already proven to be stagnant and in affective,it is too slow to respond( if it responds at all) where as the US and Britain isn`t.So I would prefer to keep our strong friendship with the US over one with Europe.

This is MY personal option and is NOT against any person but the SYSTEM.

Originally posted by ning
(but the americans think UK is their dog ...)

I am sorry but you can't of ever been or meet an American.I am married to one and have lived there many years and the average Joe blogs in the street in America has a very high option of the British,I have never heard or know of anyone who thinks we are their dogs,perhaps its a case of the rest of Europe does( I have heard this said in Ireland).

Originally posted by ning
I think "English hate French" (or German, or the rest of Europe) because the English don't speak a foreigh language so they can't be open minded (cause they are uninformed)

As I said I do not hate anyone, but to say that is uncalled for,I speak French,German and Italian and have meet many many of said races who can not speak another language,does that make them uninformed?

The hatred in the UK over Europe is more to do with other European counties telling us what we MUST do,also lots of bad feeling towards other European counties steams from our past history,Just about every European county has tried in the past to invade us.

An option is everyone's right,we do live in a free world,But when that option is offensive and an insult to a person its bordering on racism,When that option is a generalisation of a race or races then it is racism.


Racism is un called for at anytime but the fact of life is people will always beat their own drum and think themselves better than others.I personally hate all forms of racism but its out there and here to stay( not that it should).



This is my personal option and resemblance to any person and or county,living or dead, is unintentional ... so there.
 
O

Ottar

Guest
> i'm a jew. iv'e had plenty of you english chaps throw a few jew jokes at me,

Im not bloody english! ;) Anyhow, ye should see some of the jokes about estonians, unfortunatelly most are in russian and dont translate too well ;)

> but iv'e learned to live with it. heck, i even started making friends with
> the ones that made fun of me.

Slef-confidence and sense of humor sure as hell beats pouting and political correctness.

> "why should we hate arabs" or "why don't we stop hating arabs" etc.

Well.. good news is, such mutual hatred -will- dissolve eventually, after the conflict ends. Takes 2 or 3 generations but it will. Seen it happen.

Ottar
 
M

Marcus75

Guest
The dangerous thing as I see is that there are so much talk about "Im not racist" and still you see politicians with semi-racist/rascist opinions getting alot of followers.

I have a gut feeling that events like 911 fuel peoples narrowminded opinions with the help of the media. In the end its just people being afraid of change and the unknown.

I once heard a very simplifed comment about it all but still its not that far from the truth:

An idiot is always an idiot.

This meaning that both those unusual red apples among the many green ones can be rotten...and you never know until you take a bite.
 
C

Cyradix

Guest
Well… our ancestors all came from Africa some 100000 years ago, so basically we are all black….. ;)
 
F

Fafnir

Guest
Originally posted by Cyradix
Well… our ancestors all came from Africa some 100000 years ago, so basically we are all black….. ;)
And they say human of today come from the same female, so i guess we are all brothers and sisters too.
 
C

Cyradix

Guest
Pls don’t make Roo's nice post here into a war between you two :(
 
C

Cadire

Guest
I've moved the posts from myself and Krypt to another thread.
 
T

Teh Krypt

Guest
Originally posted by Cadire
I've moved the posts from myself and Krypt to another thread.

Lol why? Please move my posts back in, if you don't like being wrong don't post at all..
 
F

fenrisan

Guest
A very well intentioned post, but I sometimes wonder if you think too hard about this game Roo. Unfortunately racism exists in this world, and whilst many of us are disgusted by the fact, it remains a fact.

The generation that I belong to has the luxury of being able moralise about such matters, lucky in that we have never had participate in a major conflict. But many of the older generations would not agree, and I cannot criticise them for that.

Anyway, as has been oft said before this is just a game and we come here to get away from real world issues. If other people bring their baggage with them, so be it.

I'm not a racist but I hate Albs & Hibs ;)
 
D

Damini

Guest
Originally posted by Teh Krypt
Lol why? Please move my posts back in, if you don't like being wrong don't post at all..

Krypt, Cadire moved the posts so you couldn't hijack a mature and interesting thread with your squabbling. Have the maturity to stop kicking a dead donkey and leave it alone, instead of dancing around like a spoilt child and using this opportunity to say "HAHA THIS PROVES I AM RIGHT AND YOU ARE WRONG".


On topic, when I first started played DAoC, I had another character come up to me and start calling me a F***ing Packi bitch (I'm easily distracted, which won't come as a shock to those that have ever grouped with me or even ever chatted with me, and I'd not realised they were talking to me). I reported it to Rightnow, and I believe the account got suspended. I'm not from Pakistan, but the name Damini is Indian, and so I guess thats where it came from. While these games are just that, games, they really do have the ability to knock you sideways with the visciousness of some people's attitudes.

I quit UO for a few months after being pked - I've never much cared about being PKed, infact for the most part it amused me because they'd loot me and then get really confused as to why I was only carrying four pairs of boots and a fish, but this time these guys stood over my corpse laughing and calling me a f***ing bitch, whore, slut and how they showed me "good", gave the whore what she deserved. To have my enjoyment time violated by people that go around being spiteful for fun staggered me, and I left the game. Turned off the PC there and then, and didn't play for another few months. It may just be a game, but it shows you an aspect to human nature, and whether thats racism or just pure malice, its horrible to stagger across.
 

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