Problem ?!

[Staffzor]

That's what daoc is about, to improve you character. However you seem to compare rr2 to cheating when it was there for anyone to get. My savage Ovo is the char I've been most active on and has been 1L4 the entire time.
My point in the previous post was that although some guys had ip/charge etc, they wouldn't use it in a "fair fight"-the reason of which these guys come back to thid.

The problem was some would use it, remember fighting as a bard/VW/BM against attackbot and their gang, so was 4v3 and they used charge every single time , now to me that isn't really playing the game fair and for this one point alone I am glad they changed it. Fervent got enough for SoS literaly 2 or 3 days before the change came in and now he has to remake, but overall I am glad especially as I will get bane of albion before him muahahaha!

 

[Kalidur]

tbh if it was rr10 vs rr1L4 then i can see your point
but this isnt the case its some extra point that make very little dif

run through and straffing are a different point and as i said in another post its not flavour of the month, hence we're here discussing RR2. Feel free to make a new thread on straffing and run throughs but we're talking about RR2 for the moment.

So in your terms having vanish, charge, SoS, MCL, IP in thid isnt OP ? Your narrowing your arguments down to a selected few, not everyone is as amicable as your making your friends out to be.

try telling that to the caster that just tried to root a charging enemy, try telling that to the mezzer that cant mezz the oncomming group thanks to SoS, tell that to the FG that cant do crap when the stealther misses its PA.

Sorry i have to disagree with you, there is a massive difference between having rr 1.4 and rr 1.5, passive and active RA's.

 

[Umgrud]

Sorry i have to disagree with you, there is a massive difference between having rr 1.4 and rr 1.5, passive and active RA's.

Guess You didnt read the rest of the post?
if i can take down a rr10L8 SB with my rr4L4 Inf dose that make me over power'd?

run through and straffing are a different point and as i said in another post its not flavour of the month, hence we're here discussing RR2. Feel free to make a new thread on straffing and run throughs but we're talking about RR2 for the moment.

^^ Now that Was my point of Veiw of Being Unfare.... un like the rr2 which i think is fare... i was still on topic tbh ;/

 

[Kalidur]

Guess You didnt read the rest of the post?
if i can take down a rr10L8 SB with my rr4L4 Inf dose that make me over power'd?

I'll keep my word to bigbrother and say, I'll answer when you make a valid point.

 

[Umgrud]

err
how is that not valid point? your saying that 1.5 is OP'd to rr1.4
My point is that "Who Gives a Toss about wat RR"

At lvl50 there isnt a prob why is it in thid?

 

[Strega]

there you go to improve your character, not to level the playing field or to counter the zergs.

See you do in your own way agree with me that people got to RR2 to get that advantage and not to level the playing field or counter zergs.

It wasnt exactly open to everyone, only to the people that wished to exploit the game, not everyone maybe willing to exploit things, i personaly see exploits a way of taking the chalange out the game. Its like a game of chess, you play with an equal its a lot of fun, play with someone a lot better or a lot worse just isnt fun. Good for the ego but not as satisfying as winning a drooling match.

Talking about exploits its recently come to light that vamps have been powering up on friendly casted pets, thats an exploit and in my opinion it takes the chalange out of a vamp, would you say that this exploit is to counter the zergs or to equal the playing field because every other vamp has the ability to do the same ? or would you if you made a vamp not do it due to it meaning you could whipe the floor with the next 2-3 people you faught ?

What's riding you mate? If you had bothered to read my posts, the point was that most of the guys having the "advantage" as u call it, were reluctant to use it due to their nice attitude against realm-mates and enemies. And I'm not speaking for everyone, just the old timers. End of story. Why do you bring vamps here? I've had a vamp and never needed to rely on exploits to kill 8+ ppl in a row on pryd. Powering up on pets is lame and imo borderline cheating, however rr2 was not.

 

[Ashton]

Kalidur are u a politician? coz i still dont really see an answer to my question.

U said that RR2 chars in thid were ''game mechanic abusers'' and ''cheap cheaters'' amongst other things.

Do you hold the same view on those that use runthrough? Yes or No?

 

[MKJ]

Whooaaa Kalidur

Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. Someone owning up to how good I am at last.

Just consider if:

I was fully buffed
Fully TOA'D

Game over sorry for all. No fun for me and no fun for you big time. Been there and retired my sb - my fully buffed one - 2.5 runs of Thid with no losses - 50% lowest health (before TOA). Lot of big named full time players in that lot for sure.

Told yah :touch: .

 

[Siesta]

err
how is that not valid point? your saying that 1.5 is OP'd to rr1.4
My point is that "Who Gives a Toss about wat RR"

At lvl50 there isnt a prob why is it in thid?

Yeah but with rr1.5 you can buy things like vanish/mcl ect and with 1.4 your 1point away from it.

 

[Umgrud]

and that helps how....?

Vanish.. waste of points.. its only thid why run from a fight? its only 1-4 RP

MCL... lol like we all care about this one... get more out of a Drink Power Pot why waste the points

IP.. Same as above... sure you can get lvl20 Stuf that gives 20% if used or Pots

SoS.. = a Joke tbh...

Charge... Nice skill but the re-use makes its a bit of a waste of points..

i am still sticking to my guns... More stuff they have the better Perpared you should be... Same thing every time "If you win its ok and they suck" but when its your losing all the time its "OMG OP'd Noob you cant be better than me i am gods gift to daoc"

 

[Siesta]

People seemed to use vanish quite a bit tbh. and with IP if your losing badly you use that + Health pots? also with rr1.5 you can still get 1 more valuable point for a passive..

 

[Xphyral]

"If you win its ok and they suck" but when its your losing all the time its "OMG OP'd Noob you cant be better than me i am gods gift to daoc"

i would say this is the reason for 99% of whine/OP/omfgwtf?!/QQ/wank posts and calls for nerfs than any other.

 

[Blackjack]

I kept pretty much out of the discussion until now. But really. Kalidur however much you said that we should just take a page of MKJ's book. Have you sat down an watched any of the crap he has posted. he is prolly the biggest abuser on these boards. RR2 wasn't cheating. i didn't have a RR2 and i still didn't considder it cheating. RR2 wasn't OP in thid. ½% extra block/parry
ip1 which i can tell you is faaar from OP. SoS/vanish annoying yes, OP no. Charge had this on my merc but rarely used it. awesome abillity but i wouldn't say it was OP considdering what i was fighting. which was rarely lower than 3+ people. i can tell you.

Gear>Buffs>RR

id say with RR1L4 instead of 1L5 gives me 1 or 2% less of a chance to beat random duo. it's pretty insignificant

 

[Kalidur]

I kept pretty much out of the discussion until now. But really. Kalidur however much you said that we should just take a page of MKJ's book. Have you sat down an watched any of the crap he has posted. he is prolly the biggest abuser on these boards. RR2 wasn't cheating. i didn't have a RR2 and i still didn't considder it cheating. RR2 wasn't OP in thid. ½% extra block/parry
ip1 which i can tell you is faaar from OP. SoS/vanish annoying yes, OP no. Charge had this on my merc but rarely used it. awesome abillity but i wouldn't say it was OP considdering what i was fighting. which was rarely lower than 3+ people. i can tell you.

Gear>Buffs>RR

id say with RR1L4 instead of 1L5 gives me 1 or 2% less of a chance to beat random duo. it's pretty insignificant

MKJ = Run through

Others = BB + TOA + rr2 + run through maybe

I'm sorry i still think mkj is better.

Active RA's kinda remind me of base line stun that hibs get, hib casters never see it as being OP, similar to how the people who use active RA's in thid never see it as OP.

I said take a page out his book, not the whole book, out of 4 potential factors MKJ uses 1, others use a minimum of 3. So sorry he's still a more skillfull "game mechanic abuser" than the rest, happy now that i re-worded ?

anyway i'm off this topic, you lot in your own way told me that rr2 was attained to give yourself an advantage or as some put it better your character, as apposed to countering the zerg, or leveling the playing field (which was one of the main reasons i bought MKJ into my post).

On a passing note would anyone like to justify for the rest of us why you think that MKJ who abuses run through is worse than someone who is RR2, Buffed up, over capped and may or may not run through, is better ?

 

[Ashton]

I said take a page out his book, not the whole book, out of 4 potential factors MKJ uses 1, others use a minimum of 3. So sorry he's still a more skillfull "game mechanic abuser" than the rest

lol u calling buffs and toa game mechanics abuse aswell now?

to sum up then...

Runthrough User = ''skillful game mechanics abuser''

Buffed & ToA Equipment only = ''less skilled game mechanics abuser''

RR2 = ''cheap cheater''

<shrug>

p.s.

I kept pretty much out of the discussion until now. But really. Kalidur however much you said that we should just take a page of MKJ's book. Have you sat down an watched any of the crap he has posted. he is prolly the biggest abuser on these boards. RR2 wasn't cheating. i didn't have a RR2 and i still didn't considder it cheating. RR2 wasn't OP in thid. ½% extra block/parry
ip1 which i can tell you is faaar from OP. SoS/vanish annoying yes, OP no. Charge had this on my merc but rarely used it. awesome abillity but i wouldn't say it was OP considdering what i was fighting. which was rarely lower than 3+ people. i can tell you.

Gear>Buffs>RR

id say with RR1L4 instead of 1L5 gives me 1 or 2% less of a chance to beat random duo. it's pretty insignificant

/agree

 

[Staffzor]

Gear>Buffs>RR

Solo yea that is true, tho charge will help you beat a duo of casters more than gear/buffs would IMO. Groups tho differ massively and if you come across a group of people with active RAs up then you are screwed, if they choose to use them ofc.

 

[Blackjack]

MKJ = Run through

Others = BB + TOA + rr2

Can't be compared. BB, ToA and RR2 was a way of improving your characters bolstering it so to speak to cope with the strain fighting 2+ people.

It's all about intention imho.
if you SC, ToA, BB and got you char RR2 and then ran around with the zerg. it's retarded not to mention pointless.

but if you do it so your character has full potential when running around solo it's totally legit.

Active RA's kinda remind me of base line stun that hibs get, hib casters never see it as being OP, similar to how the people who use active RA's in thid never see it as OP.

i have fought both with and against active RA's. the only one who can even compare to the strenght of baseline stun is Charge. and no baseline stun is not overpowered in thid.

I'm sorry i still think mkj is better
he's still a more skillfull "game mechanic abuser" than the rest

he is a fullblood abuser. run through aswell as strafing is abuse of game mechanics where RR2, ToA, buffs and SC suits are not.

here i would like to point out that there is a difference between melee run through and doing it to avoid a casters QC. even though it's a major annoyance (as a caster) this can be quite effectively countered. Playing wizard (the lowest utillity class i could find) i discovered that even newbies know to run through now, so basicly it's abuse but on a scale much lower than full out melee-style strafing/walkthrough.

On a passing note would anyone like to justify for the rest of us why you think that MKJ who abuses run through is worse than someone who is RR2, Buffed up, over capped and may or may not run through, is better ?

It's worse since he is abusing weaknesses in the game mechanics to allow him to not get hit as often. if this had been a feature you would have been able to run-through and strafe against mobs which we all know you can't really do.

RR2, buffs, ToA are all ways of improving your chars performance totally without abusing any game mechanics. And notice the fact that not a single of the real thid'ers whined at all when we got the news. this was a bonus we did not count on getting when we made our chars. and it's not a bonus we'll cry when loosing.

 

[Blackjack]

Solo yea that is true, tho charge will help you beat a duo of casters more than gear/buffs would IMO. Groups tho differ massively and if you come across a group of people with active RAs up then you are screwed, if they choose to use them ofc.

Yes, charge is a very nice thing to have when you are up against a pair of decent casters. then again. the duo's were rarely caster+caster. that is a deadly duo for tanks/none magical hybrids. so imho oppinion. if they are brave enough to jump a soloer 2 casters on 1. they shouldn't whine if that soloer did have charge up.

wouldn't know about fg vs fg ofc but again. there the only RA's i think could make a difference is Charge and Purge 1. so there we are getting out in a sketchy but since TB dont kill soloers. they have made their intentions pretty clear. and fighting teh zerg i wouldn't considder active RA's to be an unfair advantage.

 

[Kalidur]

Q

he is a fullblood abuser. run through aswell as strafing is abuse of game mechanics where RR2, ToA, buffs and SC suits are not.

In your opinion fair enough, i respect that.

In my opinion those with rr2 were fullblood game mechanic abusers (how else did they get to rr2).

In your opinion he abused game mechanics but the people who got rr2 in thid didnt ? fair enough each to his/her own i guess.

so you've agreed that IP and charge are OP in thid (little or much its still op), which in terms of my argument (rr 1.5 and active RA's) would also make the people above rr 1.5 OP in thid .... thank you

here i would like to point out that there is a difference between melee run through and doing it to avoid a casters QC. even though it's a major annoyance (as a caster) this can be quite effectively countered. Playing wizard (the lowest utillity class i could find) i discovered that even newbies know to run through now, so basicly it's abuse but on a scale much lower than full out melee-style strafing/walkthrough.

Thank you for that statement, well part of it. I was gonna say that there are a lot of people in thid who run through, making MKJ's run through tactics even less of an advantage, but i knew that every tom, dick and harry would jump on it saying that i never run through but, as you said even newbies run through now, so taking that into contents i go back to saying MKJ is a far better player than most of you thidrankians will be, yes as you said even newbies run through now, he does it without TOA, without a BB and without rr2. Those newbies run through with rr2, have a BB and have a TOA over caps. Who would i say is a better player.......

 

[MKJ]

Me - deff - cos I do it with precision.

Below response is to do with this post:
Run-through

Well I wouldn't want this to be removed now would I. This is how effective it is when played really to perfection:

Buffed inf getting a lesson in combat

Take a bloody good look at my timing in the above fight. I move at the right time after analyzing who he is and how fast he is likely to be.

If I stood toe to toe with the same inf it would be very close. Thing is though that I don't always use run-through. I only use it when the occasion permits. So if a heavy handed damage dealer is overconfident (and they mostly are cos they don't need to learn to move whilst hitting) then I use it with such timing as to interupt his hits. He can't get his styles off. Now this takes a great deal of practise. An immense amount and a lot of thought. If you fight a polestaffer who is a slow hitter then you slow the run-through down - if he is a saracen he will be very much quicker so you have to speed up. If you don't get this right you will get smacked in the back for higher damage or just get whacked from the front - either way you in big trouble. Not only that but unless you time your own moves at the same time run-through is nothing more than a liability where you destroy yourself.

Leave it in and keep making the game fun. Face to face combat sux cos it is so sodding boring.

If you all calm down and consider the above you will see something special I reckon. Marvellous timing for one thing. Don't forget run-through is available to all and also to the above inf and he could have used it, but then again he could have used weapon swapping and potion popping and eh etc etc. The above fight looks wonderful to me cos my skill totally destroyed him. He never had any chance wotsoever. Infact I was quite calm and collected taking him out cos I could see he wouldn't beat me. No cheating and me at least 50% less powerful but with an understanding of the game that was far beyond the inf's. I reckon that adds up to a monster amount of skill and the above fight just shows a part of my knowledge about this game (when sober that is).

 

[Elkie]

Me - deff - cos I do it with precision.

Below response is to do with this post:
Run-through



If you all calm down and consider the above you will see something special I reckon. Marvellous timing for one thing. Don't forget run-through is available to all and also to the above inf and he could have used it, but then again he could have used weapon swapping and potion popping and eh etc etc. The above fight looks wonderful to me cos my skill totally destroyed him. He never had any chance wotsoever. Infact I was quite calm and collected taking him out cos I could see he wouldn't beat me. No cheating and me at least 50% less powerful but with an understanding of the game that was far beyond the inf's. I reckon that adds up to a monster amount of skill and the above fight just shows a part of my knowledge about this game (when sober that is).

Hmm for once i agree and thats somethings you know i dont normaly do mkj

 

[Blackjack]

In my opinion those with rr2 were fullblood game mechanic abusers (how else did they get to rr2?

letting people get over 1L4 was a concious choice by mythic. run through/strafing is a flaw! this is admitted by mythic, who explains that fixing it would be very tricky. there is a very big difference here.

so you've agreed that IP and charge are OP in thid (little or much its still op), which in terms of my argument (rr 1.5 and active RA's) would also make the people above rr 1.5 OP in thid .... thank you

no i did NOT say it was OP, read it again. i say it several times i do not find it OP.

I was gonna say that there are a lot of people in thid who run through, making MKJ's run through tactics even less of an advantage, but i knew that every tom, dick and harry would jump on it saying that i never run through but, as you said even newbies run through now, so taking that into contents i go back to saying MKJ is a far better player than most of you thidrankians will be, yes as you said even newbies run through now, he does it without TOA, without a BB and without rr2. Those newbies run through with rr2, have a BB and have a TOA over caps. Who would i say is a better player.......

again. read the whole god damn thing. There is a huge difference between walkthroughing to avoid a QC (which is what pretty much everyone knows how to do) and running through every god damn second. Your ignorance is scary tbh. Look, im not trying to insult you here. But you are defending a guy who is so out of touch with reality that he would make Charles Manson say "Dude, you need help" he has delusions of grandeur on top of being an abuser. And i would considder a fully SC'ed and buffed foe a more honorable opponent than any strafer or walkthrough'er. he could be level 20 and naked for all i care.

 

[MKJ]

Delusions of grandeur? Hehe. Nope I started making films for a bit of fun but then I realized it was a great way to stop peeps trying to prove me wrong. My films don't lie m8 and there are so many I stopped making them.

Me films

Delusions of grandeur? Lotta films there m8 and lots more I could have added.

You made any or wot? ---->>> Blackjack.

Run-through - walk-through - unless you know wot you are doing you will make a right mess of things. Ask yourself wot happens when someone does it back to me. I counter it but you lot don't know how do you. Believe me I get it done back to me a great deal. Tis all about timing. Good run-through is quite an art. Bad run-through is a waste of time totally. You gotta know when to use it or not ====== skill.

 

[Ashton]

...Your ignorance is scary tbh. Look, im not trying to insult you here...

Its not ignorance imo, hes actually quite clever with how he replies. He makes some very valid points but the problem is that much of the stuff he says is flawed (imo) and when someone highlights the fact, he either:

i) doesnt respond whatsoever;
ii) aviods the question;
iii) ''misunderstands'' parts or all of what is said.

and like Blackjack, Kalidur im not trying to insult or offend u when i disagree with, or question what u say here.

 

[Ashton]

LOL Thugs I loved the way in that runthrough thread u linked, everyone ignored u so onto Plan B... Poem Writing! Hope u get some of the attention in that thread soon m8, GL!

 

[Kalidur]

i) doesnt respond whatsoever;
ii) aviods the question;
iii) ''misunderstands'' parts or all of what is said.

If your talking on why i didnt respond to you when you asked what i thought on MKJ's run through ?? My responce would have only lead to a longer discussion, and more opinions flying out. I answered your question more or less in the last post i replied to blackjack. its that lots of people in thid when given the chances try to pull off run through. making his run through even less of an advantage. I didnt post it directly to you because i could see the amount of replies from people saying I dont run through, or it wasnt me. So i waited for someone else to mention how run through is used by so many people, and well blackjack walked into it, they were his words that "even newbies know how to run through" after saying that, MKJ's run through isnt really that big of an issue.

 

[Blackjack]

its that lots of people in thid when given the chances try to pull off run through. So i waited for someone else to mention how run through is used by so many people, and well blackjack walked into it, they were his words that "even newbies know how to run through" after saying that, MKJ's run through isnt really that big of an issue.

again. I'm getting tired of repeating myself here. I said even newbies now how to avoid a QC. there is a huge difference here. but you seem to ignore what i actually posted and take parts out of context.
I'll rephrase it to humour Ashton your points are flawed, you only see what you want to see in the post you quotes. I even made the part about walkthrough in connection with QC quite long so i wouldn't get misunderstood. But tbh i dont think you want to understand.

 

[Kalidur]

again. I'm getting tired of repeating myself here. I said even newbies now how to avoid a QC. there is a huge difference here. but you seem to ignore what i actually posted and take parts out of context.
I'll rephrase it to humour Ashton your points are flawed, you only see what you want to see in the post you quotes. I even made the part about walkthrough in connection with QC quite long so i wouldn't get misunderstood. But tbh i dont think you want to understand.

We were talking about run through here, maybe you should have been clearer in your post. theres 2 types of out of sight you can get, 1 completely legal which would just be not in the line of sight of the caster who doesnt use face, why on earth would you even bring that into this discussion, it is in no way a bug abuse or anything in anyway wrong, it wouldnt even be classed as a run through in the contects we're discussing.

2 is the run through, where the caster has faced/QC/CC and the meleer runs through so the casters cast fails. (which i used in my point)

Maybe you should stop repeating yourself and make sure your initial point is clear, why you even wanted to bring point 1 into this discussion beats me, each to his/her own i guess.

Lets recap how this thread has moved, we started out with the we need rr2 to compete or to counter the zergs, which later moved to we get rr2 to bettter our characters, improve ourselves even, which i worded as giving yourself an advantage. Now we seemed to have moved to rr2 doesnt really give you an advantage, and not a sign of it bettering your character, its come to all its good for is charge and purge wich arnt really op in thid neither. I've stuck to my initial argument (not the drunken rant) that people only get it to give themselves that advantage, any sort if that.

So whats it gonna be next, rr2 actually makes your character worse ? i can almost see someone saying that having rr2 is a burden and in the middle of a fight the decision of do i use it as an advantage or do i be honourable and not use it, is enough of an indecisiveness to loose a duel, which equates to rr2 making your character worse. /shrugs

MKJ was bought into this argument by me, so i can point at when people say they need rr2 to counter other people who are rr2, and i still think he's a skilfull player with good timing and weapon swapping even after you take run through out of his game. Wont even question his reactionaries and positional abilities.

 

[Umgrud]

LoL this post is still going cuz Kalidur wont let it drop i see....

OK lets see... run through is a bug and we all know it. You cant do it in real life why Abuse it in game...? There is games out there that have made the models Soild So u cant Run into them... Plz givf Mytic

rr2 Now removed from Thid... lets see Wasnt OP or cheating to ge it...
There is no Rule saying you can get it in CoC? and None from you going into main RvR with a Lower lvl?

I have no Time For ppl that have to run through... but i had alot of time for Hard working Players that Offer a Challage without Using a way that you cant see or hit them....

 

[MKJ]

LOL Thugs I loved the way in that runthrough thread u linked, everyone ignored u so onto Plan B... Poem Writing! Hope u get some of the attention in that thread soon m8, GL!

Bah they try to ignore me but a lot of it is to do with being in 'awe' of me and too scared to respond you c. Getting to be more so all the time as my reputation grows. Just a burden I have to bear. I can handle it though .

Don't forget I got plan c as well - guitar playing!