Possible 8v8 setups on Origins?

[Valgyr]

This will need some charges/pots to be used for all to have buffs ofc, besides that very good imo with 5 pets!

 

[Cadelin]

And if you still fail to see it I will stake it out for you, so you can comment on relevant points in my arguments, and not wether I start an argument with the word ToA in it.

1) I think albion as a realm and 8 man community will struggle to make competative groups without a class who fills the theug role, wich is heavy fnf interrupts to free up the caba, body sorc and cc sorc to do dps.

2) I do believe it is not about sorc, caba, minstrel beeing weak or underpowered but their inherent class roles are diffrent from their "direct" counterparts ( which is a weak comparision since the classes roles even with same basic abils become diffrent by default ).

This is your argument (in a nutshell) for Albs in Origins.

So the counterpoints:

1) Why does alb need a Theurg to compete but hib/mid not? What is it that is special about albs? There will be the same number of abilities spread across the same number of classes. (With the current exception of the valk which has been stated will be changed and take the role of a melee healer)

2) If you are saying that albs will not be able to compete they MUST be weak somewhere. Where do you think this is? Surely it would be better to fix this weakness rather than add the Theurg which would give albs a clear advantage over the other two realms.

I am not interested in examples from ToA or even Classic, this is going to be a very different server. I just want to know where you think Albs are weak and why you think its better to fix this with by adding a Theurg than by improving existing classes.

 

[Valgyr]

I am not interested in examples from ToA or even Classic, this is going to be a very different server. I just want to know where you think Albs are weak and why you think its better to fix this with by adding a Theurg than by improving existing classes.

Only thing that could throw this whole must need a thuerg argument off balance is if mids had BDs, then i would agree but they wont so no problem rly

 

[Nuxtobatns]

Thane inc !!! .... Who needs 7 more peeps !!???!!?

 

[old.windforce]

Not sure what you mean here mate. On a PvP server?

I'd run

1x bard - cc, rupts, spd, af buff
1x Body sorc - rape dmg, debuff, when needed aoe mezz interrupt spam + amensia, blue pet?
1x Cabalist, tri spec - ns, disease, body debuff, single stat debuff, pet
1x Druid - resis, roots, aoe dot vs box, pet, spec buffs,
1x Auger - celerity, haste, resis, 36 pac so will have aoe gellow mezz
1x Armsman - high dmg, high surv, have slam
1x Armsman - same as above
1x Theug - rape interrupts, aoe root, roots, decent dps on runners

Would be a nice setup. It is alot of albion classes, caster as you see. It works so good b/c the other classes have the right skills on the right classe so to speak. You don't even need the bard to play endo since armsmen can live on blue endo + lw1 and end pots, they still get celerity from the auger.

Don't think anyone who played Camlann or Mordred will choose this set-up

6 pb classes, buffbot and a stunner / healer and a good port-in to camp is more like it.

On a more serious note, usually tankgroups run with 2 charge tanks, sorcs are specced 39/41 and most caster groups used an eldritch over a cabalist

 

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

This is your argument (in a nutshell) for Albs in Origins.

So the counterpoints:

1) Why does alb need a Theurg to compete but hib/mid not? What is it that is special about albs? There will be the same number of abilities spread across the same number of classes. (With the current exception of the valk which has been stated will be changed and take the role of a melee healer)

2) If you are saying that albs will not be able to compete they MUST be weak somewhere. Where do you think this is? Surely it would be better to fix this weakness rather than add the Theurg which would give albs a clear advantage over the other two realms.

I am not interested in examples from ToA or even Classic, this is going to be a very different server. I just want to know where you think Albs are weak and why you think its better to fix this with by adding a Theurg than by improving existing classes.

As I see it (looking from an OF perspective no toa, no classic server) and from what I noticed, Albion without a theug in the group will either have a hard time to get dps going or have a hard time getting steady, relyable and effective interruption going.

As mentioned before it is, imo, due to albions classes wich have as you say together most of other realms abils or a form of it but in a way that makes it less effective, due to wich classes who have it and their other roles.

A minstrel for example, can match the interruption of a champion, but cannot match its utility and dps in the group. As I see the minstrel it is a class with the purpose of interruption originating from a melee class. As it also is a stealther it is a weak melee class.

Now yes, minstrels can charm pets, but then they have to twist alot, and I mean alot and that obviously takes time from doing other things, namely interrupting, making sure they don't get 2 rounded by eld + ench. ( sm + rm)

Now a Sorc can also also interrupt so can a caba. But fact is these classes are important to sustain the DPS aswell as NS, disease spam.

The caba for example wouldn't take the same role as an eld would perhaps normally do, wich is function as the designated offnuker, interruptor, kite engine who will assist an ench deubffing cold for them when called.

Now ofcourse, and normally most ppl incl me might take a body sorc on for the shear dps, debuffs, 2nd mezzed, and interrupter. But this class have to produce alot of dps aswell - obvious conflict imo, since they have the same issues as any caster, wich is beeing interrupted, ns, tanks, pets etc.

Basically as I see it the theug functioned as a breathing hole here, wich could offload the other casters to be able to do their primary job better.

Now I know we do not see eye to eye here. But this is the argument I think I have been trying to get across throughout all the posts.

Might just add, that I think you could work around it, but missing the theug will cripple alb, and for theug to be severly OPed I do not agree. Pets can be rid with pbaoe wich both hib and mid can role with without loosing any utility, more so gaining utility.


I mean, a straight comparision in interrupt classes throughout the realms.

Shaman - uber interrupter
Pac healer - best ccer, and rupter have it all
Aug / pac healer - same as pac have it all but in lower levels, often blue/gellow
Skald in a way - dds, snare, massive dps with 6.0 spd dragon hammer/tg sword, troll 400 str ( celerity ).

vs

Eld - as described, kite engine, interrupter, ns, disease, aoe snares, massive dmg when assiting on ench in short bursts.
bard - equal to a sorc id say, but shorter range but instants on short cooldowns (5s? )
champ - interrupts originating from melee, instant debuffs, dd, snare, st, rr5 with ability to 2 round ppl.
ench - in a way, aoe asd, zealot pet ( nukes from range )

vs

CC sorc. Main job to cc and interrupt but also needed on the caster dps train.
Body sorc with main task as dps.
caba sorc with main task as landing ns, disease, debuffing and assisting body sorc.
minstrel - imo weakest of the interrupt classes due to them beeing very vulnerable, not the most effective interrupter. Not an easy task to flute mezz, twist spd, twist pet charm, ( abla~), must position smart since they will get 2 rounded by debuff nuke team. ( sm+rm / ench + eld )


Now take in mind, albion uses 2x sorc, 1x minstrel, 1x caba, need 2 clerics.
2 spots left for either:

1x Minstrel
1x melee dps

Or 2x melee dps.

Compared to a Mid setup who can put in 4 more classes for pure dps utiliy to either enchance rupts even more but still having their main job as dps.

And a hib setup who as albion will need 2x druids, and have two spots left for melee dps.

I tried hard now to somewhat illustrate how I reason, when I say albion probably will suffer when theug been cut right off and PBT + SPD probably given to wizard.

 

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

Don't think anyone who played Camlann or Mordred will choose this set-up

6 pb classes, buffbot and a stunner / healer and a good port-in to camp is more like it.

On a more serious note, usually tankgroups run with 2 charge tanks, sorcs are specced 39/41 and most caster groups used an eldritch over a cabalist

I looked at it from an origin POV with the classes available on Origin. But I missunderstood his intent, and still don't know what he meant since he didn't mean PvP server either.

/edit,

Also When camlann and mordered was active many classes as armsmen for exmaple where not beefed. Celerity + 2x armsmen is the best dps you can yield melee wise since swining with 6.0 spd poles @ cap speed with over 400 str is just rape.

 

[old.windforce]

DPS of albion is lower because utility is spread over more classes.
For realm balance a theurgist is very important because the superioir interrupt abilities of long range pets that interrupt even after the caster is dead compensate for the lower DPS by nagging the enemy healing classes / casters.

 

[WiZe^]

DPS of albion is lower because utility is spread over more classes.
For realm balance a theurgist is very important because the superioir interrupt abilities of long range pets that interrupt even after the caster is dead compensate for the lower DPS by nagging the enemy healing classes / casters.

Well there must be a reason why theurgist aint gonna be on origins?
probably cus there to OP perhaps ...

 

[partyanimal]

Shaman - has to be secondary healer and rebuffer from time to time, if shaman killed mid grps lose a lot of utility, buffing himself and then maybe some more ( most times he was the only one who could cure ns , heal grp decease

bard / sorc - if a sorc loses mez to a bard, then he is a crap sorc.
bolt range mez, mez reduction,singe and aoe root, any kind of pet, ( ml9 ) ,( rr5 ), life tap, single and aoe debuffs 1500 range, better dex , assists nukes with the same type of damage as main debuffer

you can give sorc to hib for bard. 99% of hibs would consider it a "fair" trade

 

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

Shaman - has to be secondary healer and rebuffer from time to time, if shaman killed mid grps lose a lot of utility, buffing himself and then maybe some more ( most times he was the only one who could cure ns , heal grp decease

bard / sorc - if a sorc loses mez to a bard, then he is a crap sorc.
bolt range mez, mez reduction,singe and aoe root, any kind of pet, ( ml9 ) ,( rr5 ), life tap, single and aoe debuffs 1500 range, better dex , assists nukes with the same type of damage as main debuffer

you can give sorc to hib for bard. 99% of hibs would consider it a "fair" trade

On origin server there is no ml9. Shamans cannot CNS from healing spec.

Shamans tend to be a bitch to kill

And a Sorc just b/c of bolt range mezz isn't a superior mezzer. Just the fact the bard and healers have 2500 range amnesia can force a sorc to use QC mezz if not gonna be interrupted for 3 seconds while the group close. Sorc / Bard same shit when it comes to landing a mezz head on.

Atleast how I see it, and I played a rr6 bard..havn't played a sorc though.. but bard was easymode to play tbh, so much nice little things.

 

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

Well there must be a reason why theurgist aint gonna be on origins?
probably cus there to OP perhaps ...

I don't know. Maybe this discussion is more about if you think Theugs are OP'd or not.

I certainly don't think so. I think they are powerful, and damn important to keep locked down as much as you can. But when, god forbid, you get pets on all of your support/key classes all it takes is 1x pbaoe to rid the pets, then restart fight w8 for spd and push as a group again.

Ah well I think we will just have to wait and see how things develop, many a thing can be tweaked into albs favour. I mean who knows maybe Minstrel gets the reaver auras or perhaps a shield spec to thoughen them up and offer a full 9s stun from close range aswell as stunning a 2nd person for 6.75 ( 25% body resis ).

 

[Valgyr]

I dont get it why albs should have lower dps, if anything albs have BETTER dps.

And the note about mincers being so weak, waj? chain+sameish hp as champ reaver vw etc. not a weak toon, and what is weak rly? who dies the easiest? imo yes then id say all those i listed are the STRONGEST to have in the front line not the weakest, sure a BM/merc/zerk can take a nuke extra but they cant insta interupt when taking dmg.

Ive played all offensive tanks in daoc to rr 5+ atleast in different 8v8 grps and my mincer when teamed up with a good partner sure wasnt easy to kill, my merc died less but that was more due to me having strong backup from a very good reaver.

 

[Gahn]

Since when Alb caster groups have less Dps? -.-

 

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

I dont get it why albs should have lower dps, if anything albs have BETTER dps.

And the note about mincers being so weak, waj? chain+sameish hp as champ reaver vw etc. not a weak toon, and what is weak rly? who dies the easiest? imo yes then id say all those i listed are the STRONGEST to have in the front line not the weakest, sure a BM/merc/zerk can take a nuke extra but they cant insta interupt when taking dmg.

Ive played all offensive tanks in daoc to rr 5+ atleast in different 8v8 grps and my mincer when teamed up with a good partner sure wasnt easy to kill, my merc died less but that was more due to me having strong backup from a very good reaver.

Well, my Briton minstrel with top end gear during SI times had 1750ish hp fully buffed. They are on rogue HP table.

A champ will have his 42 shield aswell vs melee trains. Also have his self debuffs to use when beeing trained, can st.

A minstrel is a weaker interrupter due to their placement in battle, to be able to rupt as minstrel you need to be in range for casters and the supportline wich is probably kiting 1-2 tanks from your team, but still will be 5 supporters ( druids, bard, eld, ench ). As soon as they get their window you will be the next target. The dd's aint a steady source of interruption from a "safe position", so to speak. All it takes for the casters is qc stun pbaoe. 3x Pbaoe and your dead, beeing deep in near enemy support and casters that will probably be fatal.

I'm sure it can be done, in FL we didn't run with Theugs that often since we didn't have any ones that where super active on only theug. So me on minstrel and sorc was the rupt, compared to what both hib and mid had at the time I felt pritty vulnerable. Now ofcourse people have evolved their gameplay and everyone is several classes higher then back then but still, it should level out to about the same situation.

 

[Valgyr]

Well, my Briton minstrel with top end gear during SI times had 1750ish hp fully buffed. They are on rogue HP table.

A champ will have his 42 shield aswell vs melee trains. Also have his self debuffs to use when beeing trained, can st.

A minstrel is a weaker interrupter due to their placement in battle, to be able to rupt as minstrel you need to be in range for casters and the supportline wich is probably kiting 1-2 tanks from your team, but still will be 5 supporters ( druids, bard, eld, ench ). As soon as they get their window you will be the next target. The dd's aint a steady source of interruption from a "safe position", so to speak. All it takes for the casters is qc stun pbaoe. 3x Pbaoe and your dead, beeing deep in near enemy support and casters that will probably be fatal.

I'm sure it can be done, in FL we didn't run with Theugs that often since we didn't have any ones that where super active on only theug. So me on minstrel and sorc was the rupt, compared to what both hib and mid had at the time I felt pritty vulnerable. Now ofcourse people have evolved their gameplay and everyone is several classes higher then back then but still, it should level out to about the same situation.

Only mincer+sorc as interupt? 1 tank 2 support 5 nukers? i dont think interupts is the key with a setup like that.

If u get melee trained as a mincer u should /dance with joy cause then ur support+casters should be free doing FAR more dmg then that tank train will ever do.

 

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

Since when Alb caster groups have less Dps? -.-

It is not since when, it is about what "will" happend. Remove the theug some1 else have to take on that role.
No albion class can do that. So they have to do it as a team, changing setups, and change the concept of the base of the group. This if you look closely and reason from an RvR 8 man perspective will lead to sorc, caba doing alot more of the rupts then before also forcing them to use minstrel in all setups will lead to lower dps or lower interrupt, as I see it.

We reason diffrently here wich is good since then we can discuss

 

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

Only mincer+sorc as interupt? 1 tank 2 support 5 nukers? i dont think interupts is the key with a setup like that.

If u get melee trained as a mincer u should /dance with joy cause then ur support+casters should be free doing FAR more dmg then that tank train will ever do.

Totally depends on in wich stage the fight is in. If the support is juggling with ns/pets tanks can train minstrel together with eld + ench / sm + rm.

Most likely the 3 tanks will be going after body sorc, caba and a cleric. One tank will probably pull down to help his own support at one point if/when they established a pressure through NS and keeping the CNS cleric locked/on the move.

It is alot of theory now QQ

Better avoid the theory craft since you can take it how ever far you want and in the end the skill will determine victory or loss.

 

[partyanimal]

On origin server there is no ml9. Shamans cannot CNS from healing spec.

Shamans tend to be a bitch to kill

And a Sorc just b/c of bolt range mezz isn't a superior mezzer. Just the fact the bard and healers have 2500 range amnesia can force a sorc to use QC mezz if not gonna be interrupted for 3 seconds while the group close. Sorc / Bard same shit when it comes to landing a mezz head on.

Atleast how I see it, and I played a rr6 bard..havn't played a sorc though.. but bard was easymode to play tbh, so much nice little things.

if you read more careful you can see the ( )

sorcs tend to be much a bitch to kill they can even kill you before you do

as i descriped sorcs are FAAAAAr superior in cc...
if you didn't notice all those spell scroll up and read

bard is faaaar from easymode...
what are these little things that a sorc doesn't have?
1 insta aoe mez + 1 insta single mez...
except that crap insta dd 1000 range every 10 sec when sorc has 2x different aoe every 5 secs and another 2x single 1500 range ...

he can't even use a weapon without stopping the song he plays

 

[Valgyr]

It is not since when, it is about what "will" happend. Remove the theug some1 else have to take on that role.
No albion class can do that. So they have to do it as a team, changing setups, and change the concept of the base of the group. This if you look closely and reason from an RvR 8 man perspective will lead to sorc, caba doing alot more of the rupts then before also forcing them to use minstrel in all setups will lead to lower dps or lower interrupt, as I see it.

We reason diffrently here wich is good since then we can discuss

I dont get why they have so much worse interupts?
AOE spam interupts? sure
Range? nope
Instas? nope
Pets? nope
Tanks? nope

So if u look at hib and mid, then yes they have better aoe inteurpts but most of the time lack ind dps even vs a 2 mincer grp they are often behind in dps.

Why? More support chars and more aoe spammers.

Win CC with a alb grp and ull see some SICK dps, as both cleric AND friar can do decent dmg whereas neither hib support nor mid support can. Add to that the "bugged" lifetap and ur talking about a almost asured win vs a lowbee vs lowbee grp fight IF they win CC.

 

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

if you read more careful you can see the ( )

sorcs tend to be much a bitch to kill they can even kill you before you do

as i descriped sorcs are FAAAAAr superior in cc...
if you didn't notice all those spell scroll up and read

bard is faaaar from easymode...
what are these little things that a sorc doesn't have?
1 insta aoe mez + 1 insta single mez...
except that crap insta dd 1000 range every 10 sec when sorc has 2x different aoe every 5 secs and another 2x single 1500 range ...

he can't even use a weapon without stopping the song he plays

All that stuff the sorc has and have to do is one of the reasons why you wan't that theug in the group, to buy him and the other sorc time to do dps.

And A sorc is not better then a bard. Bolt range mezz is overrated.

The AOE instant mezz, the single instant mezz especially is how you can stack up ppl and get a stack mezz as they all /stick to the driver 0.2 s later the aoe mezz lands.

The 2500 range amnesia used on a driving sorc is what will nulify the slight range advantage. Now a sorc will probably not be driving and neither will the bard, so both teams will get mezz off on enemy tank on inc. The real battle is who will get the mezz off on support and can maintain a lock through interrupts the longest. Bard can work is aoe and single 5s reuse amnesia forever and as soon he gets a window spam aoe mezz.

Where as you said the sorc has to use his full utility ( dpsing ) wich will be harder without a theug.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

if you read more careful you can see the ( )

sorcs tend to be much a bitch to kill they can even kill you before you do

as i descriped sorcs are FAAAAAr superior in cc...
if you didn't notice all those spell scroll up and read

bard is faaaar from easymode...
what are these little things that a sorc doesn't have?
1 insta aoe mez + 1 insta single mez...
except that crap insta dd 1000 range every 10 sec when sorc has 2x different aoe every 5 secs and another 2x single 1500 range ...

he can't even use a weapon without stopping the song he plays

Sigh, comparing Bards and Sorcs is like comparing bananas to apples. Bard has higher speed and SoS and instas that CC and interrupt and most good Sorcs hang back just because of that.

Same goes for Healer+Skald groups.

Ever wondered why mostly Mincers, Banelords/Charge tanks or Heavy tanks were driving Alb groups in the last years of DAoC FG RvR?

And what (insta?!) AoEs every 5 seconds does the Sorc have please? Debuffs don't interrupt. The roots have to be used with caution as they give snares immunity and if you ask me most of the time a Sorc is simply better off being high body and double dex debuffing and nuking than spamming AoE mezz. For small scale and F8-sieging anyway, for groups with a Theurg or Heretic too and with a Tri Spec/Spirit Cabby you want Sorc's body nuke.

Damage is interrupting too but I see caster DPS going down in comparison to tank DPS in Origins due to casters being paperish and having lower casting speeds.

For now, with low CC duration I'd say a Sorc is not needed in an Origins group. Mincer brings SoS, ghetto mezz and AM, better interrupt utility, earth Wizard brings EB, snare nukes that can be redone, roots, nearsight, bolt, better matter dots. Rest Clerics/Friar/Tanks who push hard, just make sure you have gotten one Armsman with Purge 3 for group purge.

No SoI, no BG, no brittle guard, no grapple, less hitpoints, likely lesser resists and so on.

The whole "they're doing it like in Warhammer" thingy is quite funny, from what I know Warhammer has a different interrupt system, things get slowed down but not interrupted.

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

All that stuff the sorc has and have to do is one of the reasons why you wan't that theug in the group, to buy him and the other sorc time to do dps.

And A sorc is not better then a bard. Bolt range mezz is overrated.

The AOE instant mezz, the single instant mezz especially is how you can stack up ppl and get a stack mezz as they all /stick to the driver 0.2 s later the aoe mezz lands.

The 2500 range amnesia used on a driving sorc is what will nulify the slight range advantage. Now a sorc will probably not be driving and neither will the bard, so both teams will get mezz off on enemy tank on inc. The real battle is who will get the mezz off on support and can maintain a lock through interrupts the longest. Bard can work is aoe and single 5s reuse amnesia forever and as soon he gets a window spam aoe mezz.

Where as you said the sorc has to use his full utility ( dpsing ) wich will be harder without a theug.

Amen. I don't know how he has gotten RR9 on his BM; what you have written should be so obvious and so ultimate for a RR9, I don't understand it how one can question it or not get it.

 

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

Amen. I don't know how he has gotten RR9 on his BM; what you have written should be so obvious and so ultimate for a RR9, I don't understand it how one can question it or not get it.

Yah well, people always have diffrent opinons. But I'm trying hard here to get my points across

Would been easy to resort to some flaming by now. But I think we all enjoy the thread somewhat and tis a good change to have more of a discussion going on then the usual flame pip / random stealthzerger / flame bait thread

 

[Manisch Depressiv]

Yah well, people always have diffrent opinons. But I'm trying hard here to get my points across

Would been easy to resort to some flaming by now. But I think we all enjoy the thread somewhat and tis a good change to have more of a discussion going on then the usual flame pip / random stealthzerger / flame bait thread

I envy you for your endurance, but after a few whine threads about this and that from certain people here and there, I just pigeonhole them.

 

[Chimaira]

Your so positive Matri :lol:

The whines can never end!11

 

[Septima]

Sigh, comparing Bards and Sorcs is like comparing bananas to apples.

They are both fruits, what's your point again?

Get a wizard on theurgh spot and adapt. You will be surprise, thrust me...Or continue the QQing, is far more entretaining (sp?) Mincers can be a pain if well played, but good groups can easly take care of it.

Valks shoud get bases buffs, i can't fucking understand why mid is the only realm without bases buffs on his hybrid/melee/whatever/healer...

 

[Gahn]

It is not since when, it is about what "will" happend. Remove the theug some1 else have to take on that role.
No albion class can do that. So they have to do it as a team, changing setups, and change the concept of the base of the group. This if you look closely and reason from an RvR 8 man perspective will lead to sorc, caba doing alot more of the rupts then before also forcing them to use minstrel in all setups will lead to lower dps or lower interrupt, as I see it.

We reason diffrently here wich is good since then we can discuss

If you don't exchange a Theurg with a minstrel (oO) you gonna exchange it with a Cabby maybe? I don't see less Dps in that, that was my point.

 

[Patriarch<>Matriarch]

If you don't exchange a Theurg with a minstrel (oO) you gonna exchange it with a Cabby maybe? I don't see less Dps in that, that was my point.

Yah could work.

Say:

2x body sorc ( blue mess on one gellow on the other kinda spec ) -------- 4 pets
2x caba, one NS spec/disease spec, the other red debuff and ns spec.--- 4 pets

2x clerics
1x minstrel - 1 pet?
1x armsman - Harassing support/casters with minty.

With 4 casters, two sorc beeing equal threat. Cannot from a melee POV lock them down with split assists since then clerics will be free to shear.

One cab or one sorc will be free at all times peeling for others kiting, a smiple moc from any of the casters can turn the fight single handly and produce enough dps.

I have done this grp but instead of minstrel used theug and instead of arms used hybrid pala as guard/slam bot and with 2h for snaring.

It works with a theug all I can say

 

[pjuppe]

Alb grp with pwn!

Cleric no comment
Friar heal spec
Arms slam+snares enemy tanks
Sorc CC+assist nuke
Cabby Nuke MA
Body sorc nuke+backup cc
Mincer 4 insta interupts on short timers+twisting a pet
Mincer see above

Can play just as a hybrid alb grp can today with a mild form of kiting solid dps and great inteurpts

can i play the sorc?

Shaman - has to be secondary healer and rebuffer from time to time, if shaman killed mid grps lose a lot of utility, buffing himself and then maybe some more ( most times he was the only one who could cure ns , heal grp decease

bard / sorc - if a sorc loses mez to a bard, then he is a crap sorc.
bolt range mez, mez reduction,singe and aoe root, any kind of pet, ( ml9 ) ,( rr5 ), life tap, single and aoe debuffs 1500 range, better dex , assists nukes with the same type of damage as main debuffer

you can give sorc to hib for bard. 99% of hibs would consider it a "fair" trade

can't agree to much here, sorry. the "shaman getting killed"-thing, doesn't that apply to quite a lot of classes?

and the shaman is a ace interrupter. quite fantastic in my oppinion. having quick buffrips, a AoE-root you can spam forever (if you don't go to high in cave) and baseline AoE disease, not to mention the insta PBAoE disease with low recast time (not to mention that you only need MoC1 and that won't gimp you at all). i can't think of much that can compare to a shaman actually.

and for the bard thing, their amnesia instas are really good. if you don't meet a CC:er that uses instas on you, you shouldn't loose mezz. i don't agree that the bard is easy mode, but it's far from hard mode.




and about the buffing on the origins servers, did i read somewhere that there would be buff merchants or have i made that up?