Popey calls us Nazis

[nath]

This is why Turamber's such a joey. He's incapable of grasping the fact that you don't "believe" in atheism...

Well, either that or, as I said, he's not aware of weak and strong atheism. Strong atheism requires belief.

 

[Bahumat]

YouTube - Richard Dawkins' Speech at Protest the Pope March

 

[Scouse]

Well, either that or, as I said, he's not aware of weak and strong atheism. Strong atheism requires belief.

Not sure about that.

I don't believe in god. That's all it is. I don't know if I could strongly not believe in something.

It's like saying when I relax, I relax hard, IMO. I mean, when I lie down on that sofa I make sure I lie down real good


If you believe in atheism, you're not atheist. Atheism requires you to be able to quickly and easily be able to change your ideas based on new evidence. If you perform "belief" then you can't do that...

 

[Raven]

I don't believe in god for the same reason Christians don't believe in Buddha or Thor, or Neptune...or any other of the thousands of gods people have created.

I can't remember the actual quote or who said it.

 

[Ch3tan]

Sam Harris I believe.

 

[Scouse]

I don't believe in god for the same reason Christians don't believe in Buddha or Thor, or Neptune...or any other of the thousands of gods people have created.

What reason's that then?

From that it sounds like you believe there isn't a god, rather than you don't believe in a god?

 

[Ch3tan]

It's a quote from Sam Harris Scouse, Sam Harris

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Harris_(author)

 

[nath]

Not sure about that.

I don't believe in god. That's all it is. I don't know if I could strongly not believe in something.

It's like saying when I relax, I relax hard, IMO. I mean, when I lie down on that sofa I make sure I lie down real good


If you believe in atheism, you're not atheist. Atheism requires you to be able to quickly and easily be able to change your ideas based on new evidence. If you perform "belief" then you can't do that...

If I put an orange smartie in one of my hands, close them in to fists and hold them out, you can choose one. You can believe that there is no smartie in one of my hands. OK, not the best analogy but currently the best I can think of for 'strong atheism'. A *belief* that there is no God. A strong atheist would say "there is no God" and a weak might say "there's no evidence for a God". As you can say, the former requires a leap - the latter is just rational logic.

What reason's that then?

From that it sounds like you believe there isn't a god, rather than you don't believe in a god?

I guess that the reason Christians don't believe in Thor is because they weren't brought up to believe in him, and there's no evidence he exists.

 

[Raven]

What reason's that then?

From that it sounds like you believe there isn't a god, rather than you don't believe in a god?

That's up to Christians to answer.

Ask a Christian why he doesn't believe in Odin. He probably can't answer you without making his own belief look utterly stupid. He can't go and say, "well there is no evidence of Odin's existence" because there is no evidence that the Christian god exists either. They can't say "but God is written about in the bible" because stuff is written about in all sorts of books, just because something is written down doesn't make it true unless Christians believe in hobbits and elves too?

The point is, the only reason why Christians believe in god is because they got brainwashed from birth or were weak enough to need something to blame for things that happen in the world. Not one of them can come up with any actual proof or experience of actual events that can in any way be attributed to a god. They may as well just be scientologists or pray to their neighbour's cat, its all much the same thing.

If faith is enough for something to be real then I may just start having faith that I get to bang Keira knightly tonight.

 

[Ch3tan]

"Because my prophet was told that there is only one god and all other gods are false"

Funny how prophets and those that "talk" to god always relay the same thing isn't it?

 

[Raven]

Sounds like a sales line to me.

Our god is the only god! Only give us your money and ignore all the others!

 

[old.Tohtori]

It would be silly for a christian to deny the existance of other gods, they're mentioned(along with demi gods) in the bible.

I think many christians have taken heed and call their god the "true" god. You know, our god etc.

Just wanted to note that

 

[Scouse]

If I put an orange smartie in one of my hands, close them in to fists and hold them out, you can choose one. You can believe that there is no smartie in one of my hands. OK, not the best analogy but currently the best I can think of for 'strong atheism'. A *belief* that there is no God. A strong atheist would say "there is no God" and a weak might say "there's no evidence for a God". As you can say, the former requires a leap - the latter is just rational logic

Y'see. I'd say "there is no god", but I wouldn't say I'm a "strong atheist".

As far as I'm concerned, my understanding of the evidence is that there isn't a god. In much the same way that the evidence says that if you stab someone through the heart they'll die.

There's nothing to "believe" in there.

If someone can show me evidence that there is a god, or that when you stab someone through the heart that they won't die, then I'll change my mind.

Again. Nothing to believe in there. Just two intellectually held opinions that are open to change through the presentation of evidence.

If you "believe" there's no god, then you're performing the action of belief - which doesn't require any assessment of evidence - therefore you're not atheist


Anyway. If you stood in front of me with an orange smartie in one hand and asked me to choose - I'd tell you to fuck off. There's no way I'm eating a smartie out of your hands. If you want to share your sweets offer me the tube you dirty c*nt

 

[Scouse]

It would be silly for a christian to deny the existance of other gods, they're mentioned(along with demi gods) in the bible.

I think many christians have taken heed and call their god the "true" god. You know, our god etc.

Christians do believe that the other gods don't exist. They consider worshippers of other religions misled fools, at best.

Christians deny the existence of other gods. There's only one. Everyone else is the victim of false prophets etc. etc.


I.E. They're a bunch of idiots - they do laugh at other religions and religious folk, but refuse to see they're in the same bucket

 

[old.Tohtori]

I didn't claim some christians don't do that, just that in the bible(which is the basis is SHOULD be on), the christian god is the one you should worship, but it doesn't deny other gods. Jsut that the christian god is the one -true- god.

 

[Scouse]

I didn't claim some christians don't do that, just that in the bible(which is the basis is SHOULD be on), the christian god is the one you should worship, but it doesn't deny other gods. Jsut that the christian god is the one -true- god.

For a start - I disagree with that (I think the bible does refute the existence of other gods).

Regardless - it doesn't matter what should happen - the only thing that really matters is what does happen. And christians deny the existence of other gods. Period.

 

[old.Tohtori]

For a start - I disagree with that (I think the bible does refute the existence of other gods).

Regardless - it doesn't matter what should happen - the only thing that really matters is what does happen. And christians deny the existence of other gods. Period.

Well for a start - it's in there.

Regardless - it's not period, all christians don't think the same as your stereotypical view of them.

 

[nath]

If someone can show me evidence that there is a god, or that when you stab someone through the heart that they won't die, then I'll change my mind.

The key difference there is that we can test stabbing someone in the heart. Additionally, we understand the physical reasons why a blade penetrating someone's chest is going to cause some serious problems.

It's not possible to prove a negative though, we can't prove God does not exist any more than we can prove unicorns don't exist. Fortunately, anyone with a rational mind knows that the onus of proof is on the positive so people need to prove God and unicorns, not the other way round.

 

[Scouse]

Yep nath - I wasn't saying prove god doesn't exist - I was saying prove he does.

I've loads of evidence, real evidence, that it's all bunkum. As a rational man, that's enough for me to go on.

What would change my mind is evidence to the contrary, but as I've never seen any, ever, and I mean ever, it's unlikely I will change my mind.

So, I have a firmly held intellectual opinion that "there's no god" - but that doesn't make me a "strong" atheist. It just makes me an atheist.

it's not period, all christians don't think the same as your stereotypical view of them.

I went to a CofE school from Primary. Went to a Catholic school run by Christian Brothers until 18. I'm a direct decended of John Wesley, who founded the Methodist church. If I know anything about Christians I know this:

Christians fit the stereotype. They deny the existence of other gods. I've never met (or even heard of) a christian who thought the other way - and I've met a lot.

 

[old.Tohtori]

At best you can say it fits christians in your parts.

Now you have heard of other christians who do, so ajust your view scientifically.

Your stereotype is wrong, stop using it in every single discussion.

 

[Ch3tan]

I thought it was the core of Christianity, islam and judaism that their god is the only god, and all other gods are false idols.

 

[old.Tohtori]

True god, not just only god.

I never said christians think other gods are real gods, that would ofcourse remove all power from the "one true god".

But it doesn't deny their existance.

 

[Scouse]

At best you can say it fits christians in your parts.

Now you have heard of other christians who do, so ajust your view scientifically.

Your stereotype is wrong, stop using it in every single discussion.

1) I've still never heard of other christians who do. All I did was read a bullshit argument from someone who obviously has a lesser grasp on the vagaries of the christian religion than me.

2) My stereotype isn't wrong. Their religion prohibits the belief in other gods.


And yes - the prohibition of belief explicitly denies the actual existence of others.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well by that default; all you say is bullshit and as such, i won't bother answering it.

 

[Ch3tan]

True god, not just only god.

I never said christians think other gods are real gods, that would ofcourse remove all power from the "one true god".

But it doesn't deny their existance.

Err yes it does, the implication of saying they believe in the one true god by definition makes all other gods false.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Err yes it does, the implication of saying they believe in the one true god by definition makes all other gods false.

Yes, false gods. Doesn't deny the existance of them though.

Like false prophet, doesn't make them non existant.

As i said, there's mention of other gods in the bible too.

And as i said, it would be silly to deny the very existance of other gods by that fact alone.

(Not fact that there ARE other gods, but that the book talks of them)

 

[Ch3tan]

If something is a false anything, it is not that thing. Or do you not understand the meaning of the word?

 

[old.Tohtori]

If something is a false anything, it is not that thing. Or do you not understand the meaning of the word?

False god does not equal it not existing, do you not understand that?

False advertising, false prophet, etc.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Actually, this discussion has f*ck all point so let's drop it

 

[kamorrista]

Alright, I would like to point is ok u believe or not in God (or a God) but don't speak about people who believes or not like they are stupid doing it so, respect and be respected please guys.

Reffering to the Topic, Pope is human (even if he's really touched by God, which i doubt seriously) and has Humans around him giving support (bishops etc), despite he could be an arse, they can be wrong (even tho God is supporting them, somehow?).

About atheists and believers, well I have heard that christians claim their God is the true one, but also heard they say the other Gods are just different interpretations of the Christian God (so is the same God with different names), I only have heard this often, don't know if it's right or true, but can give the discussion a new route