Plot-holes in M.R.

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Wij

Guest
Here's one to start with...

Who designs a system you can't just shut-down ?

If I were the machine in charge of the Matrix and Smith was infesting it I'd switch off the server, format the hard drive. Rebuild from a base build CD and have it up and running in vanilla form again the next day :)

Actually you could think of serveral silly reasons why this may not be possible but it just smacks of poor system design to me as a techie :)




You name one now...
 
W

Wij

Guest
APU reloading. If an APU can fire enough rounds to beat back one of those MEGASWARMS of squiddies then it's going to get through more than a few boxes of ammo every few minutes. It's going to need them every second or something stupid.

In fact no. It COULDN'T POSSIBLY shoot back thousands of them all rushing towards it.

In fact, even if it COULD. Why didn't they just go in three different directions towards that little plonker kid ? It only has two guns, why all go the same way ? WHY ?

I don't mind the idea of humans overcoming incredible odds but if they only do it because the enemies have A.I. routines more basic than that in Dune II on a 286 then I DO MIND. IT'S JUST TOSS !!!1
 
A

Arnor

Guest
amen


was thinking like "ok, now its just getting silly" when more calamari came.
 
W

Wij

Guest
Machine 1: "Did you load the "Combat Tactics" routines into the Combat units ?"

Machine 2: "No. I filled up the A.I. storage capactity with "Cooking romantic meals for two", "Gerbil maintenance", "Topics of conversation if stuck in a lift", "Reclaiming your self-worth", and "The joy of Crochet".

Machine 1: "Are you trying to get deleted ?"

Machine 2: "Yes, I'm extremely depressed."

Machine 1: "Is there anyone else I could speak to ?"
 
W

WPKenny

Guest
Just seen it.

OMG what a bunch of wank. Really. Wtf was that all about?

The first one ended with Rage Against The Machine and the last one ends with....a sunset embraced by multiple cultures... a black woman, an indian child and a chinese guy. Is there some message there?

Seriously wtf? The W.Bro's have a LOT of explaining to do.

I gave the second film a chance on repeated viewings but the third film just went off at some shite fucking tangent that really could never redeam itself and if by some madness there were sequels to this trilogy they'd got the way of the Jason Vorhees series.... stuff of legend but ultimately a really shite exploitation of an original great.
 
W

WPKenny

Guest
**********SPOILERS**********




Woken up with a bit less alcohol in my system. Thought I'd post a sensible reaction to the film.

It was a really, really bad film.

It made no sense at all. Why did they make such a show out of Smith absorbing the Oracle? They made it seem as if there was something wrong or just something different about him absorbing the Oracle to all the other people he'd absorbed.

What pissed me off was that all along I was thinking that Neo was able to fuck with the squids cos Zion et al was all still in the matrix, it was just another mechanism to control the rebelious minds that didn't like it within the Matrix itself and make them think they'd escaped and so would accept their fate more easily.

But apparently Zion WAS the real world so how on earth was Neo able to do all that stuff? Simply saying he's "The One" doesn't cut it. And how was Smith able to infect that guy in the real world if it wasn't some sub-matrix? It's not like someone's brain is a computer chip to be infected or something? They were simply wired into the Matrix as a method of sensory input. If this is the case why didn't they just take over the bodies of people and make them pretend they wanted out of the matrix and use them as spies in the Real World to kill off the rebelious humans?

And the whole truce thing is rubbish. The humans can't beat the machines. We saw that. They were getting their arses well and truely kicked. What exactly was the whole "let's make a deal" thing about? Was Agent Smith about the crash the matrix and kill all the humans attached to it? It didn't seem as if he actually wanted to commit suicide that way. The machines could have easily wiped out all the remaining humans and just picked off any humans who then went and rejected the matrix in the future.

The humans have now basically resigned themselve to slavery. The machines won't let them improve themselves. The whole reason the matrix exists in the first place is cos the humans were so scared of the machines and their increasing power that they attacked them. What makes the situation so different now? Who the fuck really wants to life outside of the matrix when there really is no hope for them? They would resign themselves to a life of eating porridge-like shit and living in tatters of clothing with zero hope of that lifestyle ever going anywhere because of the "truce" with the machines. Unless the humans kick machine arse and wipe out all the machines they're just resigning themselves to a life of near servitude. That to me isn't a particularly happy ending.

Fucked up film, fucked up logic, plot holes a mile wide and characters you really couldn't give two shits about...apart from that guy in the APU and the helper-boy.
 
S

Sar

Guest
1) When Smith assimilated someone, he gained their knowledge and abilities. Hence why assimilating the Oracle was such a Big Thing.

2) He had the same measure of control over the squiddies that the agents do (thanks to his own assimilation of Smith's code at the end of pt 1) - remember in the 1st film when the 3 agents sent out Sentinels when Neo, Trin & Morpheus escaped in the chopper? Bingo.

3) "Your mind makes it real."

4) He didn't know he was gonna crash the Matrix afaik. He just wanted total control.

5) The machines only ever wanted peace, but as far as they were concerned, the humans just wanted war. That peace means that the humans are free to grow and evolve, as long as they don't begin another war. And as the Oracle & Atchitect said at the end, those that want to leave are free to do so, and vice versa.

Most people's problems with all three films mainly stem from the fact that they don't pay attention or think for themselves when watching it. I had to sit in work yesterday and explain Reloaded to a workmate, as she'd seen it the day before.
 
W

WPKenny

Guest
Originally posted by Sar
1) When Smith assimilated someone, he gained their knowledge and abilities. Hence why assimilating the Oracle was such a Big Thing.

2) He had the same measure of control over the squiddies that the agents do (thanks to his own assimilation of Smith's code at the end of pt 1) - remember in the 1st film when the 3 agents sent out Sentinels when Neo, Trin & Morpheus escaped in the chopper? Bingo.

3) "Your mind makes it real."

4) He didn't know he was gonna crash the Matrix afaik. He just wanted total control.

5) The machines only ever wanted peace, but as far as they were concerned, the humans just wanted war. That peace means that the humans are free to grow and evolve, as long as they don't begin another war. And as the Oracle & Atchitect said at the end, those that want to leave are free to do so, and vice versa.

Most people's problems with all three films mainly stem from the fact that they don't pay attention or think for themselves when watching it. I had to sit in work yesterday and explain Reloaded to a workmate, as she'd seen it the day before.
Click to expand...

I've watched reloaded several times and quite enjoy it now on repeated viewings. But onto revolutions....

1) His facial expression seemed to indicate something was wrong and that it wasn't just a normal assimalation. It seemed "plot" important. Turns out it wasn't. This is a minor point tho. not really worth dwelling on.

2) I thought it was the other way around and that Smith has gained from Neo. And control doesn't = able to make things explode. If he had that level of control, why didn't he just convert them all to good guys and tell them to stop killing humans?

3) Bit of a wank excuse really tho isn't it? It's like the bizzare convention of Jap films where psychic people just "are" and their abilities are rarely questioned, simply accepted. Rememer it's a westernised audience who aren't used to such conventions. A little more explaination woudn't have gone a-miss.

4) Fair enough but you would have thought he'd known this having been such a key role in the matrix before his independance.

5) Peace means the humans are subservient. If they're allowed to grow and develop there's the chance that they could get to the point where they can overcome the Machines. So why is it in the machine's interest to let the humans live a productive, progressive life?

The "problem" is that not enough thought went into the film itself. The directors know the conventions of all these other films and fans of these films can see those conventions shining out unfortunately for the mass market they've not been exposed to these conventions before and so it confused the hell out of them, not just because they're dumb and weren't watching with proper attention.
 
S

Sar

Guest
Peace doesn't mean humans are subservient - it means both sides are equal. That's what any form of peace means. You don't make peace with someone you consider inferior.

To the machines, humans are their gods - capable of so much more than the machines. Hence why the machines wanted to learn from the humans and study them in their natural habitat.

If you want a technical explanation for the Smith taking over Bane thing - look at it as a form of psychosis or brainwashing. Smith's personality, his hatred of Neo etc were imprinted into Bane who took them on.


Something was wrong btw when Smith took over the Oracle - he didn't have total control over the Oracle's "body" or "mind". She still had some measure of control, hence why Smith was made to tell Neo "Everything that has a beginning has an end" during the final fight. This was actually the Oracle telling Neo what he had to do.
 
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WPKenny

Guest
Originally posted by Sar
Peace doesn't mean humans are subservient - it means both sides are equal. That's what any form of peace means. You don't make peace with someone you consider inferior.
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That's my point. There never will be peace because although the machines can make a decision and stick to it, what are the chances the humans will? It's in our nature to want to improve ourselves and adapt. It's rather short sighted of the Machines to agree to "peace".

You're stating stuff as if it's fact. Unless you've got the W.bro's mobile phone number all of what you're saying is specualtion. I'm commenting on the underlying nature of human beings.
 
A

adams901

Guest
I thought Zion was part of the matrix, if this is true then surely it was easy for Mr Smith to take over that guy (download/Transfer his personality into another part of the system).

Only Questions I was left with at the end of the film were...

1) What will happen to neo

2) How will the humans be free if Zion is part of the matrix

3) Is Zion part of the matrix or not

When we saw what Neo was seeing it looked as though he was seeing matrix code in certain bits (while in the Machine City). This is what makes me want to believe Zion is part of the matrix, it would be stupid for Neo to have those powers and see what he did in the "Real World".
 
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Sar

Guest
Originally posted by adams901
I thought Zion was part of the matrix, if this is true then surely it was easy for Mr Smith to take over that guy (download/Transfer his personality into another part of the system).

Only Questions I was left with at the end of the film were...

1) What will happen to neo

2) How will the humans be free if Zion is part of the matrix

3) Is Zion part of the matrix or not

When we saw what Neo was seeing it looked as though he was seeing matrix code in certain bits (while in the Machine City). This is what makes me want to believe Zion is part of the matrix, it would be stupid for Neo to have those powers and see what he did in the "Real World".
Click to expand...

He saw what he did because of his connection with the machines - the same reason he could destroy the calimari.
 
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Sar

Guest
Originally posted by WPKenny
You're stating stuff as if it's fact.

I'm commenting on the underlying nature of human beings.
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Originally posted by WPKenny
OMG what a bunch of wank. Really.

I gave the second film a chance on repeated viewings but the third film just went off at some shite fucking tangent that really could never redeam itself... stuff of legend but ultimately a really shite exploitation of an original great.
Click to expand...

Don't see anything "stated" by you as being anything other than fact "either"...
 
W

WPKenny

Guest
Oh come on. Now you're just nit-picking. Of course saying "it's shit!" or "it's great!" is a matter of opinion but you're going around interpretting your own version of the film and implying that there's only one interpretation of what happened in the film...your version.

I don't want to get into a flame war about this (I wub j00 sar). I want the thread to stay on topic I just think a little more justification of what everybody's saying wouldn't go a-miss.

e.g. taking the points people have made and reasoning out your point of view.
 
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Sar

Guest
I thought I wouldn't have to state that what I'm "stating" is in fact my interpretation of what I saw and understand to have happened.

If someone were to give their own, different, interpretation, that too would be equally viable (within reason, you couldn't by any stretch seriously take out of the three films that Neo is a latter day reincarnation of Muffin the Mule for instance).
 
J

Jonaldo

Guest
But of course, Muffin the Mule was less wooden than Keanu Reeves :D
 
T

Tom

Guest
I don't remember this much conjecture over the meaning of 'Back to the Future III'
 
N

nath

Guest
I don't understand the problem with understanding Smith overwriting Banes mind. I mean we saw in the first matrix that Neo learns Kung Fu, Trinity learns how to fly a helicopter. So from that we know that they have the technology to write information to the brain. As a result, it's entirely conceivable that Smith could totally overwrite Banes mind with his own (so to speak).
 
M

Meatballs

Guest
Isn't the brain is really just a very advanced biological-based computer after all?
 
W

Wij

Guest
Originally posted by Meatballs
Isn't the brain is really just a very advanced biological-based computer after all?
Click to expand...

Depends on your definition of computer really.

Anyway, plot-holes ? :)
 
S

Sar

Guest
Originally posted by Wij
Here's one to start with...

Who designs a system you can't just shut-down ?

If I were the machine in charge of the Matrix and Smith was infesting it I'd switch off the server, format the hard drive. Rebuild from a base build CD and have it up and running in vanilla form again the next day :)
Click to expand...

Cos you'd kill everyone connected to the Matrix I think....

:)
 
W

Wij

Guest
Re: Re: Plot-holes in M.R.

Originally posted by Sar
Cos you'd kill everyone connected to the Matrix I think....

:)
Click to expand...

Why ? They re-booted at the end of the film didn't they ?
 
T

Testin da Cable

Guest
I'm starting to doubt that. It's almost as if they performed an in-flight patch or something.
 
S

(Shovel)

Guest
Hard to tell. I mean, the Architect said that failure to pick the new inhabitants of Zion would result in a catastrophic system crash - killing everyone connected to the Matrix. Smith had cloned himself onto hundreds of thousands of people (if not the entire population of the Matrix, that's obviously speculative) and apart from the Oracle, the little girl and Seriph, they all just exploded into the ether.

It seems concievable that the crash of the Matrix did kill them all, and the Machines would simply continue to grow more humans and insert them from scratch.
 
W

Wij

Guest
If that's the case then they might as well have rebuilt the Matrix from scratch. No need to let Neo do anything. Rebuild the Matrix, carry on killing Zion. They win all round. Big gaping hole.
 
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SilverHood

Guest
should have wasted the french guy

No matter what happend at the end, someone should have put a gun to his head, and with the words "Au Reviour" pulled the trigger.

Would have made the film gain a brownie point in my book.
 
W

Wij

Guest
Neo should have used his tentacles to sex0r Persephone imo !
 
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