Play, the online shop, and his good manners.

Geimdar

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
5
Today ive recive this mail from play:

Dear JAVIER FERRANDEZ FRASQUET


Thank you for your recent order with Play.com.

Due to some fraudulent activity in similar addresses to yours we have
placed your account on hold and require you to fax your bank statement to
us showing your name and address so that we can approve your account and
process your order as quickly as possible. Please fax this information to
+44 (0)1223 395220 for the attention of Maria.

We apologise for the inconvenience caused to you in this matter and hope
that you understand the need for this security.


Kind Regards

Play
--------------------------

This was my answer:

Dear Play

Due that drawbacks i have decide to cancel the order. Mainly reasons
are this:

1) I use to buy on internet cuzz its direct and easy, if i have to go
to my bank and ask em my bank statement to send u with fax... well its
stupid.

2) I decide to buy on play cuzz was the cheapest place, time is money
and more for me (im a consultant in a eBusiness corporation). If i
have to lose 45 mins or more going to the bank and later sending it to
u (guessing ur fax number is not a free cost one) well then the
operative cost is higher than other online shops. No reason to order u.

3) Refering to ur mail :"Due to some fraudulent activity in similar
addresses to yours" That really makes me laugh. So u are presumming
well not presuming u are asevarating i have done frauds before... Well
dunno who is the person behind this mail but i feel really insulted
after that affirmation. In the other hand, on my country, do that
affirmations without proofs its a Judicial Offense.
U are calling me thief... im really anoyed... cant believe it...

4) I can understand that Visa or Card Payments can be object of
frauds, but this is not the way to go... How do u feel if after a nice
dinner on a restaurant u pay with card and they asked u for a Bank
Statement... ridicoulos... better not to sell online that making in
that way.

After 5 years buying online, u are the worst online shop i´ve found.
Im going to show this mail to all people i am able. Then they will
know what kind of Shop u are.

Regards

Javier Ferrández Frasquet
---------

Im not going to make a flame post. I will let u all to judge that behaviour.

If all continue in the same way I will never buy anything to that guys.
 

oblimov

Luver of Buckfast
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
963
to be honest i would rather a company checked up on things like this rather than leave me in the dark about why they cancel orders.

better for them to be safe so you cant be sorry imo
 

old.Whoodoo

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
3,646
Dont reply to this!! This looks like such a fraud its unbeleivable!!

Firstly, dialing code for Jersey is NOT 01223, which is Cambridge on the mainland. If you check Play's telephone numbers:

Telephone
0845 800 1020 (UK Only)
+44 (0)1534 877 595 (Outside UK)

Fax
+44 (0)1534 631 580
Secondly, why a bank statement, why not a utility bill or driving licence?
This email looks like like bullshit to me, If I were you I would contact Play asap and let them know in case this is an attempt at fraud!!!!

Hopefully an employee of Play has spotted this already.
 

Anastasia

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
274
What he said ^^

Can't believe an online shop would ask you to fax a piece of paper.

Did they quote an order reference? If not I'd say it's a scam for sure.
 

CjkaceBM

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
126
The information is entirely 100% correct.

I telephoned Play.com and was told that they do indeed sometimes request further proof of address and that the number is indeed a Cambridge number where they ask the proof to be faxed to. It isn't a fraudulent e-mail (check the e-mail headers in the source code for info@play.com).
 

Kami

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
2,254
I doubt Play would have sent you that email. You should copy it into notepad, copy it back out into a NEW email and then send it to the proper play email addresses available from thier website. NEVER click on links inside emails from people you do not know, Internet Explorer can be tricked into displaying ie www.play.com when your actually at www.playgivemefraudulentcash.com

just an example. Personally I ignore 99% of emails I get unless I'm expecting them or they're from people/addresses I use. I don't however use MS email or internet clients very often (prefer eudora/firefox).
 

SilverHood

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,144
It's standard practise for online retailers to request paper documents if fraud is suspected.

If play sent out the package, and it was paid for using a stolen credit card, then the owner of the card can get their money back, but play can't get the parcel back.
 

Anastasia

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
274
I stand corrected :)

I think that your response is over the top though cjkacebm.

I've encountered a lot worse on the internet. Like ordering with a business credit card and arranging for delivery to a different address. eTailer doesn't give a shit if the credit card holder is being defrauded as long as they get paid by the credit card company.

You haven't been accused of anything. Sounds as though Play have been stung by some naughty people living in Spain? though.
 

Anar

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Feb 5, 2004
Messages
193
"Due to some fraudulent activity in similar addresses to yours"

That statement is is very vauge, your next door neighbour has a similar address to you (not implying your next door neighbour is crim), id ask for more detail imo (sound dodgy).
 

Anastasia

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
274
CjkaceBM said:
How is my reply over the top?
It isn't :twak: I meant Geimdar's response to Play was over the top. I would expect a consultant in an eBusiness corporation to be more understanding of an online retailer trying to protect itself from fraud ;)
 

Covenant

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
282
Just as a slight aside, if your address is registered with CIFAS as having had a fraudulent application for credit against it, this could also give you grief.

Some complete git tried to apply for a credit card from my old address and, thankfully, the company tracked me to my new address and notified me. They also placed me on the CIFAS register. This is a double-edged thing, as it stops you from getting defrauded for the duration of your registration, but it also means that applications for credit could be delayed, which also includes mail order (they have to request credit, right?).

Just a thought - someone could be on the register in your street.
 

Nxs

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
478
I agree with the others, looks pretty damn fake to me, but even if you are going to write a letter/email of complaint, some tips :-

em -> them
u -> you
cuzz -> because
ur -> your
dunno -> don't know

trying to use l33t speek in a complaint just makes it look dumb, no offence.
 

Chrystina

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
822
after more than 200 orders from play.com I'm still very happy with them and never had problems. once I didn't receive a package, emailed them, got a prompt refund, no questions asked.

and Geimdar, did you really send that email? ever heard of something called a spell-checker (F7 in Outlook)?

anyway, I'm glad to know that play.com is serious and professional enough to actually check things when they are in doubt. :clap:
 

Geimdar

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
5
Anastasia, cuzz i work in this world i know that there are something u never can ask/tell. I feelt really annoiyed/uppset after reading this mail.

I can "understand" they want to check some information on their first time buyers. Ok they could ask me for me DNI (Identify National Card), Driving License, Paspport. I can send all of em scaned by email.

I say "understand" cuzz im pretty sure that if u pay something with visa in a fisical shop on england. They will not ask u for a bank statement or a driving license or something that identify u. As far as i know, been 4th times on england, there are some of presumption of innocence and good faith on all contracs/transactions there.

Mainly i was not uppset their asks about bank statement, i was uppset cuzz they say "fraudulent activities". Well they didnt said i was a crim but u dont have to be really clever to read behind the lines. There are dozens of ways to ask it and they used the worst.

Am i exagerating? well may be in england u think in a different way but when u work in a online shop (open to lot of countrys) U have to know how to "say" things

Regards

Geim
 

Herjulf

Banned
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
673
Geimdar said:
Today ive recive this mail from play:

Dear JAVIER FERRANDEZ FRASQUET

.. yadd yadd... bla bla :) ....
Well my guess is that u were trying to order for example US DAOC + TOA, when i tried to order Shadowbane from PLAY they asked me to do the same.
Probably because many european (swedish in particular) banks dont give out details like adress and such to the stores.
All they get is transaction possible YES or NO, i think.

It ended me asking a friend in USA to buy it for me, i PAYPAL:ed him the money and he bought it and mailed me the CD¨s. And Copied one cd to a .bin which i downloaded, and i got the cd-keys on icq. i was playing within a couple of hours.

It depends so much on what online shop you use.
I herd of other ppl that simply ordered it without any problems i have no idea though what shop they used.

It could also be that they are not allowed to ship the game you described to non US citisens, some care some companys do.
 

Ethild

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 29, 2003
Messages
499
Personally I think you have completely overreacted, and the store has done nothing wrong. Infact, I would go so far as to commend them for letting you have a chance to 'redeem' yourself via a mail, instead of just declining the transaction.

Fraud screening processes at the most basic level involve pattern matching on the card information such as its address. If the previous house owner had a bad credit history, or your address is simillar to somebody else's it is likely the transaction will be flagged as suspect. This is not something Play.com soley use, its a common fraud screening technique used by the majority of online shops. In a lot of cases, the transaction will simply be declined and you will be non the wiser. Play.com seems to (despite the inidcators to the contrary in your thread title) have good manners and allow you to prove you are who you say you are by presenting them with an appropriate document.

Also ..

Geimdar said:
I say "understand" cuzz im pretty sure that if u pay something with visa in a fisical shop on england. They will not ask u for a bank statement or a driving license or something that identify u. As far as i know, been 4th times on england, there are some of presumption of innocence and good faith on all contracs/transactions there.
You are mistaken there. Although im not sure on the process with using foregin cards in an English shop, if a suspect transactions happens with a domestic card, you may be asked to prove the authenticity of the transaction before the transaction can complete. This is a requirement of the credit agency instead of the retail store, and all stores need comply (or they can auto decline the transaction). An example of such a process can require the customer to be passed in store to a telephone operative at the credit agency to answer some questions. The need to do this can be triggured quite easily, for example if you rarely use your card, and then suddely try to spend a few £k in a day, it is likely this type of event will happen to you.
 

Geimdar

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
5
Ethild:

"If the previous house owner had a bad credit history, or your address is simillar to somebody else's it is likely the transaction will be flagged as suspect"

I have lived on the same house/addres since 1987. My addres is quite unusual so i laught about their pattern matching.

Ethild:

"Although im not sure on the process with using foregin cards in an English shop"

I have paid with my Visa on English Shops never asked for id card. Payed lot of times on Amazon with it too (never asked for nothing).

Five guys has been on same situation today. They all canceled their orders... May be we are quite uncommon. But we all feel on the same situation.

Btw if im really a crim and the visa im using is stolen, the shop will always get payed, VISA PAYS ALWAYS.

If they doesnt want to sell us anything there is nothing we can say/do. But we have the same rigth to cancel our orders and express our disconformity.

Regards Geim
 

Tareregion

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
1,132
Well look at it this way. U have an appointment in LA, but u hear rumours that there is a nuclear bomb going to explode at midnight. Wouldn't u at least check with the one you have the appointment with to verify the rumours?

(hi der "24" watchers ;))
 

CjkaceBM

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
126
Geimdar said:
Ethild:

"If the previous house owner had a bad credit history, or your address is simillar to somebody else's it is likely the transaction will be flagged as suspect"

I have lived on the same house/addres since 1987. My addres is quite unusual so i laught about their pattern matching.

Ethild:

"Although im not sure on the process with using foregin cards in an English shop"

I have paid with my Visa on English Shops never asked for id card. Payed lot of times on Amazon with it too (never asked for nothing).

Five guys has been on same situation today. They all canceled their orders... May be we are quite uncommon. But we all feel on the same situation.

Btw if im really a crim and the visa im using is stolen, the shop will always get payed, VISA PAYS ALWAYS.

If they doesnt want to sell us anything there is nothing we can say/do. But we have the same rigth to cancel our orders and express our disconformity.

Regards Geim
I thought you were an online merchant yourself?

Visa would not pay the shop. They would refund the original card holder, re-claim the cash from the shop - it's called Charge Back.

As for the area, they don't mean your house and the next three along, they mean within your locality. You know why? Because credit cards are frequently stolen, cloned etc and then addresses within a certain locale are targetted for the drop-off points.

You and your friends do indeed have the right to cancel orders, but all you are doing is refusing to shop at a site that takes it's security very very seriously.

Are you also aware that something similar happens everyday in a lot of offline retail stores. Random transactions are flagged, and the person on the check-out has to call a phone number for clearance. Would you also refuse to shop there?
 

Chrystina

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
822
hmmm... imo you made yourself look dodgy... canceling an order after being asked for some proof of ID or residency looks VERY suspicious tbh (not to mention your l33t talk) ... :m00:
btw, nothing wrong with a Cambridge number as the owner of play.com used to work at my old company here in Cambridge :clap:
 

Kawala

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Messages
32
"Btw if im really a crim and the visa im using is stolen, the shop will always get payed, VISA PAYS ALWAYS" - fyi Visa will only pay the shop for the goods/services if it has being signed for when fraudulant/code10, obviously an online retailer has no signature that appears on the card, a shop does, untill chip and pin ofc.
 

SilverHood

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,144
Shop always looses out if payments are made using stolen credit cards. Sadly.
Geimdar, I don't think play have anything against you personally - it may be that Play has recently been scammed from people giving addresses in Spain, and so checks all transactiosn sent to Spain.

Company I used to work for blocked all IP ranges for whole countries - if they wanted to pay still, then it had to be by cheque, postal order, international money order, or by Wire Transfer.

I'd just ask them what the problem is, and see if it can be sorted out without having to send paper and stuff by post or fax.
 

Beck

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
120
As others have said... credit card transactions made fraudulently can easily be 'charged back' so you dont lose any money but the merchant dont get payed and potentially loses any goods sold, unless later recovered.

Its much easier for a criminal to de-fraud over the internet.. thus internet based companies will have tighter authorisation routines than normal merchants. So its not unusual for them to ask for proof of ID, especially when a 'warning' light has gone off due to fraudulent activities in your area.

I'm pretty sure they will have just /dismissed your reply. English is obviously not your first language but your wording was still too l33t.
 

Korax

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
335
I can see why you didnt bother to fax them, but imo you overreacted.
I mean, they have something that indicates that you might have had some problems with fraud, and they obviously have a standard procedure to check it out. I mean, if they didn't they could have been bankrupt due to fraud ages ago. :p

If you have a store and got a customer who has thief stamped in his forehead, wouldn't you want to secure that he's not gonna steal your stuff?
 

Gamah

Banned
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
13,042
Geimdar said:
Anastasia, cuzz i work in this world i know that there are something u never can ask/tell. I feelt really annoiyed/uppset after reading this mail.

I can "understand" they want to check some information on their first time buyers. Ok they could ask me for me DNI (Identify National Card), Driving License, Paspport. I can send all of em scaned by email.

I say "understand" cuzz im pretty sure that if u pay something with visa in a fisical shop on england. They will not ask u for a bank statement or a driving license or something that identify u. As far as i know, been 4th times on england, there are some of presumption of innocence and good faith on all contracs/transactions there.

Mainly i was not uppset their asks about bank statement, i was uppset cuzz they say "fraudulent activities". Well they didnt said i was a crim but u dont have to be really clever to read behind the lines. There are dozens of ways to ask it and they used the worst.

Am i exagerating? well may be in england u think in a different way but when u work in a online shop (open to lot of countrys) U have to know how to "say" things

Regards

Geim
Not really.. I Work for a large Mobile Phone Company Orange..We pretty much ask for a bank statement (itemised), Uk Passport, Photocard Driving licence and Utility bill (Not N-Power) when connecting a phone on a contract. We are really strict.. I can't actully see what your making a big fuss about. If and if ever suspect a card of being used improperly I will ask for a photocard driving licence, (if not I won't sell them the products) and I know the rest of my staff do this as well.

Kudos to play..infact im off to make an order from them now knowing my details are in good hands.

David
 

Kawala

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Messages
32
Nooooo! Dont go to teh Orange shop!!, Flame Gamah for working for equivilant of :flame: Wanadoo :flame:
 

Arcee

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Jan 9, 2004
Messages
127
Well, ive read the emails and imo, the reply is alittle over the top. Kinda made youself look abit silly i think. Yes from time to time, they do ask for other identification, and rightly so. What if your card was stolen and you had some mug buying from play.com emptying your pockets. You wouldnt be to pleased i take it, and thats why they do these random checks.

From the email, they have not accused you of anything. They are checking to see if you own the card, and they have every right to do so.

Its nice to know some companies of there actually do check people from time to time, there is so much fraud these days - and the internet only made it worse.

I really hope you didnt reply back to Play.com with that email you posted, and if you did, i would seriously consider emailing them and apologise for the unkind words.
 

Javai

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 8, 2004
Messages
1,531
Ordered a huge batch of new games just before Christmas from play and they asked me to phone to confirm I was owner of credit card. Its their policy to do so on large orders apparently which I was actually quite happy to do and to know they take security seriously.
 

Jace

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
62
Surely this HAS to be a wind up . . . Geimdar saying "u have to know how to 'say' things" after having sent Play one of the most poorly worded emails ever :p

Yes i know there's a language barrier here but I've never seen l33t speak used to bridge the gap in something apparently so serious to the person concerned.

With regards to Play asking for the identification . . .well done Play!!

Having had good friends who have been taken for many thousands of pounds due to credit card fraud I can only say that Geimdar's attitude is deplorable. Credit card fraud is a very real and serious problem and if you can't be bothered to look past your own "issues" at the bigger picture here then it's best you don't buy online at all.

Damn good PR excercise for Play though, wonder who Geimdar works for? :)
 

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