Picture Row

[DaGaffer]

You can bitch when minorities "integrate"...



...and bitch when they don't.



So which one is it? Or is it just a bitching session where it doesn't matter what the minority does, he's gonna get bitched at anyway!

Actually the two statements are not mutually exclusive. Integrate here and accept that people will do things that may offend ('live and let live') or fuck off home if you don't want integrate, or if you can't/won't fuck off home, accept that people are going to do things you don't agree with; like the rest of us do.

 

[SheepCow]

Fuck them all for being idiots. This sort of thing is nothing new, there are some seriously fucked up pictures with Jesus etc. in - get over it.

edit: "them" being anyone who has a problem with the images, no matter what race, religion, gender, sexuality or flavour. If you don't want to fuck them, then remove all images to do with any religion, race, gender, sexuality, you get the idea.

 

[Sissyfoo]

What SheepCow said. Some brave soul needs to address these rioting crowds and explain to them what satire is. Not me though, fuck getting stoned to death or shot or lynched or beaten.

This one made me laugh! It's funny cos it's true. With the amount of people blowing themselves up they are probably going to have to start recruiting their virgins right out of kiddy pre-school.

 

[Chilly]

What SheepCow said. Some brave soul needs to address these rioting crowds and explain to them what satire is. Not me though, fuck getting stoned to death or shot or lynched or beaten.

This one made me laugh! It's funny cos it's true. With the amount of people blowing themselves up they are probably going to have to start recruiting their virgins right out of kiddy pre-school.

crawled out from under your aussie rock eh? Or was it ZA? meh, who cares its only you.

What I want to know is why they care so much what some random danish newspaper prints? Quite apart from it not being circulated in their part of the world, they probably go *looking* for shit like this just to kick up a fuss.

Most people, whatever the religion are all the same. They jus wanna bring their kids up safely, have a nice house and enjoy a few luxuries if they can. It is always a select few who take the piss and pretend they speak for the majority and commit all the war and violence

 

[Escape]

Actually the two statements are not mutually exclusive. Integrate here and accept that people will do things that may offend ('live and let live') or fuck off home if you don't want integrate, or if you can't/won't fuck off home, accept that people are going to do things you don't agree with; like the rest of us do.

I imagine many minority groups learnt tolerance and integration from the British colonialists

What comes around, goes around...

 

[Tom]

I imagine many minority groups learnt tolerance and integration from the British colonialists

What comes around, goes around...

Yeah, just like that argument.

 

[Lester]

Saw this a while ago, which shows that these issues are more universal than you think....

Australia - The Right to Leave
>
>
>
>
> Our Country - YOU Have the right - the right to leave !
>
> After Sydney not wanting to offend other cultures by putting up Xmas
> lights.
>
> After hearing that the State of South Australia changed its opinion and
> let a Muslim woman have her picture on her driver's license with her
> face covered.
>
> This prompted this editorial written by an Australian citizen.
> Published in an Australian newspaper.
>
> Quote:
>
> IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It
> I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some
> individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali, we
> have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians.
>
> However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the
> "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility
> that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration,
> nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by
> coming to Australia.
>
> However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to
> our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand.
>
> This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only
> to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we
> have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own
> lifestyle.
>
> This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials
> and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
>
> We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese,
> Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part
> of our society, Learn the language!
>
> "In God We Trust" is our National Motto. This is not some Christian,
> right wing, political slogan. We adopted this motto because Christian
> men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this
> is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on
> the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you
> consider another part of the world as your new home, Because God is
> part of
> our culture.
>
> If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go",
> then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this
> planet.
>
> We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, And we
> really don't care how you did things where you came from.
>
> This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you
> every opportunity to enjoy all this.
>
> But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag,
> Our Pledge, Our National Motto, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage
> you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
>
> "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE".
>
> If you aren't happy here then f#@* off! We didn't force you to come
> here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.
> Pretty easy really, when you think about it.

 

[old.user4556]

I agree with that completely.

There is however one enormous problem with it: it stinks of hypocrisy. The Australians that are there already aren't indigenous people, the white man "invaded" it - so technically and according to that post - if white men in Oz don't want to live to Aboriginal standards, they should all get out.

 

[Lazarus]

mmmmm

 

[Furr]

erm lame argument there Escape, and just to Clarify, The muslims in europe, are living in europe (strangely enough) and should abide and respect the laws and society of their new countries therefore "when in rome, do as the romans"

Those that are not in europe should keep their mouths shut as they have no right to dictate terms to the freedom of press in europe "Ive come to the conclusion that the can go all fuck themselves aswell" is that easier for you??

As far as im concerned we live in a european society that has taken many many years to get itself to a society that is based on freedom of expression.

So what gives these Muslim countries the right to come along a try to dictate to our goverments to censor our press or as one person on the BBC chat back from palestine put it "there should be limits to your freedom", when they start spounting shit like that then i quite agree that we should should defy them.

You can be passive and give in, or activly engage in the debate. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be debate, just some people who are incapable of engaging in resonable dialog and thus instead demonstrate their wishes through violence, and its not like the goverements on these countries can be counted on for some restraint since they seem to be orchestrating much of it.

This is the reason that we are finding this so outrageous. Its seems odd that a whole bunch of people can get so so activly and violently enraged over a cartoon, it also illuminating to see how incompatible they are to our way of living and susequently just reinforcing many people's views. Im sure many people want to see how the muslim countries countinue to react, and with the Turkish Muslims saying this is Blasphemy, they should be punished etc a question is raised about their membership into the EU, would their population be compatible with the social models of europe for example?

 

[throdgrain]

I agree with that completely.

There is however one enormous problem with it: it stinks of hypocrisy. The Australians that are there already aren't indigenous people, the white man "invaded" it - so technically and according to that post - if white men in Oz don't want to live to Aboriginal standards, they should all get out.

Stretching it a bit mate. What am I? English.
Anglo-Saxon? Celt? Norman? Etc etc.
I applaud the mans sentiments.

 

[Escape]

This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only
to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we
have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own
lifestyle.

This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials
and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.

lol, what a knob. The genocide of Aboriginies was a real 'struggle' indeed.

 

[old.user4556]

True Throd, I was playing devil's advocate in a way.

 

[DaGaffer]

I imagine many minority groups learnt tolerance and integration from the British colonialists

What comes around, goes around...

Ah, so 'sins of the father' makes it all right does it? Sorry, fuck that. I wasn't a 'colonialist' even if a lot of my ancestors were.

And actually, the British were at great pains not to interfere with local religions; when they tried to in India it caused them a world of pain. The British Colonial Offices spent a lot of time trying to 'protect' local cultures from our[/] religious idiots (not necessarily through any particular respect for local culture, but because they knew it would cause problems).

 

[Escape]

Those that are not in europe should keep their mouths shut as they have no right to dictate terms to the freedom of press in europe "Ive come to the conclusion that the can go all fuck themselves aswell" is that easier for you??

We don't hesitate to impose our views on other countries.
Who are we giving "democracy" to next?

The Arab military hasn't assassinated the journalists or bombed the offices of the Danish newspaper. Such extremes are reserved for the US Military and by association, Britain.

Check the timeline of events. This started in September 2005, the Danish refused to meet with Arab representatives when it probably could have been resolved with a little diplomacy.

 

[Escape]

Ah, so 'sins of the father' makes it all right does it? Sorry, fuck that. I wasn't a 'colonialist' even if a lot of my ancestors were.

And actually, the British were at great pains not to interfere with local religions; when they tried to in India it caused them a world of pain. The British Colonial Offices spent a lot of time trying to 'protect' local cultures from our[/] religious idiots (not necessarily through any particular respect for local culture, but because they knew it would cause problems).

Not so much as the sins, as the 'attitudes' of the father which carry down.


The British Colonial days in India are a whole different topic.

It makes more sense to research the global policies currently in place. e.g. why 'civilised' nations are funding warlords and selling weapons to militias. So balance the calls of 'fuck off' with some 'get the fuck in'.

It's all terribly hypocritical.

 

[TdC]

This started in September 2005, the Danish refused to meet with Arab representatives when it probably could have been resolved with a little diplomacy.

yarr. indeed. the PM could have at least met the fellows before saying it was press freedom.

 

[DaGaffer]

Not so much as the sins, as the 'attitudes' of the father which carry down.


The British Colonial days in India are a whole different topic.

It makes more sense to research the global policies currently in place. e.g. why 'civilised' nations are funding warlords and selling weapons to militias. So balance the calls of 'fuck off' with some 'get the fuck in'.

It's all terribly hypocritical.

You can hold a thought in your head that disapproves of Anglo-American policy in the middle east and still believe that these fucktards protesting outside the BBC last night should get a grip.

'Hypocrisy' is such an easy word to bandy about, but its meaningless; I don't need to do research to know that the Islamic world has what it sees as a righteous grievence against the West; it doesn't matter, we still have a hard fought value system of our own that we have no need to apologise for.

 

[Furr]

TO be honest, i really really don't see the link between the British empire and this furore over the depiction on muhammed and the subsequent debat between the free speech culture of the west and the taboo culture of the muslim world.

maybe im missing something? I also think you'll find that most educated Indians think that in the long run the british empire has generally helped their country as it establised one large nation not many many small ones, yes pakistan and bangladesh was created and that was an error. But they had a rail network built, a democratic system, a bureacracy, postal service etc etc. In term of their treatement of the indians during that time of course it wasn't great. But at least India isn't a dozen or so different countries constantly waring with each other over clan and tribe boundries that is sadly so often the case the africa.

 

[gmloki]

I do really strugle with this whole situation. People are getting up in arms about what is for all intents and purposes satire. It can be argued that press should have been more delicate with a group that would on the face of it be overtly sensitive. I am getting increasingly frustrated with the rest of the world having to walk on egg shells in case it means people are going to be offended when really no offence was meant. Im fed up of the constant rhetoric of flag burning and death to the west mentallity for the slightest little thing that is percieved to be an attack on Islam

Would the west be up in arms if Al-Jazeera ran a tv show making mirth about god or christ ? I doubit it. Maybe we are too quick to judge others by our own standards. That said do we make too many concessions in what is a world already up with the wall with PC madness and are we compounding the problem

 

[DaGaffer]

Annoying arseholes are outside my office right now; I work two doors down from the Danish Embassy in London, and they're protesting there. Right now it looks like there are more coppers than protesters, but they're making quite a racket. I've taken a couple of pics with my phone; I'll upload them when I get home (not that they're very exciting).

 

[Tom]

 

[`mongoose]

Would the west be up in arms if Al-Jazeera ran a tv show making mirth about god or christ ? I doubit it. Maybe we are too quick to judge others by our own standards. That said do we make too many concessions in what is a world already up with the wall with PC madness and are we compounding the problem

Yes some of the West would Ash.

I know it's hard right now but it's not like every muslim person in the world right now is banging down the doors of Denmark demanding blood now is it?

It's a small devout miniority of the total population who are protesting and tbh as long as they keep their protests peaceful, more power to them. When Life of Brian was released, priests and 'christians' campagined against it. That's why it's only ever been shown on television as part of a documentary on C4

I agree with the very real concerns that we're not Proud enough of our European culture, but let's not get carried away in the sensationalism of the reporting here.

The majority of Muslims in the UK are as integrated as they care to be and cause little if any trouble, just like any other ethnic minority. It would be nice if we saw a bit more of a complete picture here and less demonisation of them tbh. Yes there are nasty ass extremeist muslims out there, if you think that's strictly a muslim or eastern perogative I suggest (strongly) that you visit the conservative mid west in america and observe the press of the fundamentalist christian right wing. Stick em in the middle east with the head scarves on and the only difference between the two extremists is language - they're essentially the same kind of fucktard



M

 

[DaGaffer]

Noisy bastards are really starting to piss me off now...

 

[Escape]

TO be honest, i really really don't see the link between the British empire and this furore over the depiction on muhammed and the subsequent debat between the free speech culture of the west and the taboo culture of the muslim world.

The colonial days aren't over, rich nations still exploit the poor. You don't care about them, they don't care about you!

Are you starting to understand or shall I break it down some more?

'When in Rome...' applies both ways.

 

[Tom]

oops

 

[DaGaffer]

The colonial days aren't over, rich nations still exploit the poor. You don't care about them, they don't care about you!

Are you starting to understand or shall I break it down some more?

'When in Rome...' applies both ways.

Bah, moral relativism. If you believe all cultures have equal value and should be respected equally, then you would have a point. I don't believe that, so I believe our free speech is more important than their medieval religion.

 

[Herbal]

If the USA invaded France do you think we'd give a fuck?

Yes France has nukes, around 230 of the buggers (mainly used to keep the germans from having another go i would imagine).

 

[old.user4556]

I just wonder, and worry.

After seeing footage on the news where people were holding banners calling for those who insult Islam to be beheaded, are the UK people going to get sick of it to the point to vote in an 'extremist' (such as the BNP)? Afterall, that's how Hitler got into power.

A cartoon is a joke, but calling for a beheading is a completely different end of the scale.

I'm not racist, i'm not against Muslims, I don't prejudice against skin colour but I am increasingly becoming intolerant of Islam (from mild to extreme forms) and rapidly losing all sympathy for ethnic minorities that follow Islam in my country.

They can do what the fuck they like elsewhere or in the middle east, but to echo what has already been said already: don't come to the UK and force your extreme views here. It's only going to rock the boat of a population where racism and prejudice will no doubt be on the increase.

 

[Tom]

What annoys me is that on many of these threads across many forums people feel they have to say that 'theyre not racist' etc, because they're worried that someone will presume that they're precisely the opposite.

It seems to suggest that everybody is on the defensive, when in reality it should be accepted by most people that only a minority of folk are racist.

I have personal experience of this, having been denounced as a sexist bigot on an a private industry forum I used to frequent, all because I refused to apologise when people got the wrong idea.

PC = sucks.