News Paris Attack

[Scouse]

Lets wait for the first videos of Civilians dieing and then watch the But But it wasnt my fault type behaviour from all the MPs

I don't think they'll give a fuck tbh.

 

[Talivar]

I watched some of it and its amazing how stupid many of them appear, talking about how we have the best pilots in the world so they are convinced we will not hit any civilians with our bombs lol. None of them had a plan for what to do after the bombs and completely ignored the facts that the syrian ground troops they keep talking about are vastly made up of people just as bad as Deasha/ISIS lol. It came across very much as a we have to help our friends no matter what!

 

[Moriath]

Nuke syria. Set it as a not go area and move on. Lol. Might or might not be syrious

Or serious

 

[Scouse]

Definitely pointless and unfunny either way tho.

 

[Moriath]

Definitely pointless and unfunny either way tho.

So was your reply

 

[Ormorof]

I'll never forget sex education in 5th year (not sure what that is in English terms, but I was 15/16) at a Catholic school and being told that it would be about "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve".

It was illegal to "promote" homosexuality in schools from 86 until 2003 in UK (2000 in scotland)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28

 

[Job]

I guess we have to play the game, which is what everyone is doing on both sides, it's our own fault for listening to the bullshit...if it works...and advertisers can tell you it does...then they keep feeding it to us...their bullshit is jihad and virgins...ours is we know best cos we're white people.

 

[Urgat]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ttacks-that-should-shame-us-all-a6738866.html

 

[Scouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...ttacks-that-should-shame-us-all-a6738866.html

What can we, as fellow British citizens, tell Ahmed’s son? We should tell him to be proud of his heritage, proud of his religion and proud of his father for having the courage to speak out. Hopefully, we can give him a country to be proud of too.

Or we can tell him that his religion is the fertile ground upon which terrorist ideologs plant their seeds in order to grow the suicide bombers of the future, that he should realise he's being intellectually abused and give him the courage to reject his miserable religious heritage and instead look forward, and to ask if he can help make this a country worth being proud of.

 

[Urgat]

I don't disagree and would extend that thought to all religions...

However... My point was directed at The retarded "Islam is violent, and all Muslims support ISIS" bullshit that seems to be spouted by a select few bigots on this forum.

 

[Gwadien]

Or we can tell him that his religion is the fertile ground upon which terrorist ideologs plant their seeds in order to grow the suicide bombers of the future, that he should realise he's being intellectually abused and give him the courage to reject his miserable religious heritage and instead look forward, and to ask if he can help make this a country worth being proud of.

Why should he have to though?

You can be religious and progressive, its achievable and much more realistic than getting someone to drop their religion entirely and then get them to be progressive, if anything they'll reject the idea entirely and turn to their religion and ignore the outside world.

Have some empathy, stop viewing them in a western athiest mindset it doesnt work.

Anyway was talking to the mother last night - she works with naughty kids - super nanny if you rememebr that.

Basically the Po Po have given them training on how to deal with people going through suspected extremist teachings.

New system is that anyone can anonymously report a Muslim person of this and then a team will be selected to go and question this person.

What a fucking awful idea - you have a person that has been radicalised - they respond with lol fuck these white people telling me what to do I'm going to bomb now!

You have a innocent person - lol fuck these white people picking on all Muslims as being terrorists I may aswell resist too!

It will achieve nothing it will just piss Muslims off.

Use the mosques and the community links that they know and trust - not a middle class white person with a degree and talks down to people.

 

[fettoken]

Well you have a fucking hallfwit Government. Deciding to bomb Syria, yeah like we need more of that!

Ok, we do too, deciding to give Turkey 8.3 million euros. I'm half Turkish myself, but what the fuck.

 

[Raven]

I don't disagree and would extend that thought to all religions...

However... My point was directed at The retarded "Islam is violent, and all Muslims support ISIS" bullshit that seems to be spouted by a select few bigots on this forum.

If you read the koran, it is violent and down right nasty.

But then so is the bible.

That is not to say, All Muslims are crazies. For the most part they may well be deluded but they are generally harmless.

 

[Scouse]

I don't disagree and would extend that thought to all religions...

Agreed with all your points.

Why should he have to though?

You can be religious and progressive, its achievable and much more realistic than getting someone to drop their religion entirely and then get them to be progressive, if anything they'll reject the idea entirely and turn to their religion and ignore the outside world.

I never said he should have to - but there's no reason we can't tell him what I said at all. It's better than pandering to his religious background and shows people have an alternative method of thinking.

As for your second paragraph - whilst it's entirely possible that they'll reject the idea - UK history shows that if you tell unicorn worshippers's kids that their mum and dad are a bit mental for praying to non-existent gods and that you can be good but not have to live under abritrary religious rules that that's a very seductive idea and well worth vocalising.

It's worked for christians. Whilst some did indeed become more pious and entrenched the vast majority dumped their bullshit belief system in a heartbeat - or at least ameliorated their dedication to it.

As a result of this outward condemnation of their religious beliefs (especially ridicule) Christianity is on it's way to becoming irrelevant for much of the UK. It can happen for Muslims too.

That's precicely why churches of all faiths are trying to reinstate versions of the blasphemy laws / restrict freedom of speech - because saying things like I said to kids works...





Edit: The rest of your stuff I agree with. But you're still getting a disagree because of your muslim-belief-protectey-batshittery

 

[old.user4556]

@Gwadien "religious and progressive" - what the fuck does that mean exactly?

Does it mean "I recognise and agree that The Bible / Koran et al is utter bollocks full of horrific misogyny, homophobia, utter ignorance and warmongering that has been proven to be utter bollocks, but I still want to believe I'll go to heaven, so I'll conveniently cherry pick the good bits, pretend i'm a good person and hope for the best"? Because if that's the case, I find those people even harder to stomach than IS.

 

[Gwadien]

@Gwadien "religious and progressive" - what the fuck does that mean exactly?

Does it mean "I recognise and agree that The Bible / Koran et al is utter bollocks full of horrific misogyny, homophobia, utter ignorance and warmongering that has been proven to be utter bollocks, but I still want to believe I'll go to heaven, so I'll conveniently cherry pick the good bits, pretend i'm a good person and hope for the best"? Because if that's the case, I find those people even harder to stomach than IS.

No, the most progressive days of Western society was during the friction of Christianity and Science - the Scientists being extremely religious, I think it's easy to forget that 150 years ago, Europe was still extremely and devoutly religious, and now weve progressed into a better society without religion, we fought ourselves to come to this.

To ban Islam on a global scale would be ridiculous, it would mean that the Islamic world would become more religious, not less.

Ive said a billion times @Big G I completely agree with you the world would be better if we removed Islam, but how?

Any attempt to remove it would be met with such fierce resistance there wouldn't be a world left to enjoy.

So unless you can stand on your theory box and say yes we should get rid of religion and then construct a way of doing so, we should stop being so hostile to Islam and give them time to sort their shit out.

As I said before the vast majority of people on this planet would chose money over religion so its about time we start to use that against them, don't bomb them, just take away their ez oil money.

 

[Shagrat]

Basically the Po Po have given them training on how to deal with people going through suspected extremist teachings.

New system is that anyone can anonymously report a Muslim person of this and then a team will be selected to go and question this person.

What a fucking awful idea - you have a person that has been radicalised - they respond with lol fuck these white people telling me what to do I'm going to bomb now!

That's a completely uninformed description of what this actually is.

I've had the same course recently (it's called Prevent) and it's basically about safeguarding (and just an extension of the same thing really) in that if you are working with or supporting someone (whether a work colleague or service user) you now have an avenue to specific groups setup to look at whether someone is being radicalised or not.

for example, I might report someone to them, group of professionals will meet (include health, education, police, social services, any other applicable people) to discuss the case, whether what I have said is founded or me just being malicious and if there is a problem who will be best suited to dealing with it. If it's some kid being radicalised by his grandma into EDL/Combat18 kind of thinking then school involved, with maybe someone whose been in the same kind of groups and also maybe the schools history teacher meeting with the kid to show him his view of history is skewed etc.).

It's not about getting some white guy in a suit to talk to muslims, its about all forms of radicalisation and seemed to me to be a good approach, if's its some muslim kid getting into the wrong shit online then it would be someone respected from within that community who could understand the passages from the koran they are quoting and how they are misinterpreting the text, they've already had a fair bit of success with this approach over the last 12 months.

 

[Gwadien]

That's a completely uninformed description of what this actually is.

I've had the same course recently (it's called Prevent) and it's basically about safeguarding (and just an extension of the same thing really) in that if you are working with or supporting someone (whether a work colleague or service user) you now have an avenue to specific groups setup to look at whether someone is being radicalised or not.

for example, I might report someone to them, group of professionals will meet (include health, education, police, social services, any other applicable people) to discuss the case, whether what I have said is founded or me just being malicious and if there is a problem who will be best suited to dealing with it. If it's some kid being radicalised by his grandma into EDL/Combat18 kind of thinking then school involved, with maybe someone whose been in the same kind of groups and also maybe the schools history teacher meeting with the kid to show him his view of history is skewed etc.).

It's not about getting some white guy in a suit to talk to muslims, its about all forms of radicalisation and seemed to me to be a good approach, if's its some muslim kid getting into the wrong shit online then it would be someone respected from within that community who could understand the passages from the koran they are quoting and how they are misinterpreting the text, they've already had a fair bit of success with this approach over the last 12 months.

Yeah, that's what it is.

I still disagree though, its still the local authorities telling local bodies to have a chat with potiental snack bar openers, and it doesn't take a genius to see this and be like 'Yeah this is what the snack bar franchise owner said would happen'

The best way to do it would be to pick up on the cases and then get the Mosque to lead it completely in an environment which is totally constructed by the Mosque.

Don't be naive too, this has nothing to do with Non-Muslim related extremism in the slightest.

 

[Job]

From what I can see Islam is just ultra conservatism with a good dose women and beasts are there to serve men.
There is nothing worse than the preaching of the converted, which is us, but that only really applies to smoking, it's time to convert Islam into something far more reasonable and see if it can survive without the threat of death....(it won't)

 

[Shagrat]

Yeah, that's what it is.

I still disagree though, its still the local authorities telling local bodies to have a chat with potiental snack bar openers, and it doesn't take a genius to see this and be like 'Yeah this is what the snack bar franchise owner said would happen'

The best way to do it would be to pick up on the cases and then get the Mosque to lead it completely in an environment which is totally constructed by the Mosque.

Don't be naive too, this has nothing to do with Non-Muslim related extremism in the slightest.

Not being naïve at all, but I'm also not being some Daily Mail mentalist who thinks its all about the muslims, its not. extremism needs tackling in every form and that's what this is for, it's not a new initiative.

your kind of thinking, that its all about the muslims, is just as much a part of the issue that needs dealing with. theres plenty of other nutters out there to keep an eye on.

and your disagreeing because you have no understanding of what Prevent does and how it works other than a half hour (or however long) conversation with your mum.

 

[Yoni]

I have just replied to someone on Facebook because they believe that by not purchasing anything from non white people they are stopping Isis..... They truly believe that anyone not white is contributing to the ISIS cause...

I broke a little inside reading their bullshite.. I dont know the person an associate of an old friend....

 

[old.user4556]

I have just replied to someone on Facebook because they believe that by not purchasing anything from non white people they are stopping Isis..... They truly believe that anyone not white is contributing to the ISIS cause...

I broke a little inside reading their bullshite.. I dont know the person an associate of an old friend....

Jesus. That's ..... amazing. I'm not even mad, I'm just amazed at the stupidity.

 

[Gwadien]

Not being naïve at all, but I'm also not being some Daily Mail mentalist who thinks its all about the muslims, its not. extremism needs tackling in every form and that's what this is for, it's not a new initiative.

your kind of thinking, that its all about the muslims, is just as much a part of the issue that needs dealing with. theres plenty of other nutters out there to keep an eye on.

and your disagreeing because you have no understanding of what Prevent does and how it works other than a half hour (or however long) conversation with your mum.

She explained it pretty in depth and I still believe unless they're going to allow their local communities to do all the work and the authorities simply get reported back to on what they're doing. Its the only way anything can be achieved.

As for the targeting, we need to target Muslims but we can't be perceived as targeting muslims.

If we begin to crack down on members of legal groups such as Britain's First and the EDL - then the law will be used to stop people who have differing views to the mainstream and its not even tin hat theory anymore.

 

[Yoni]

They have also admitted they would seek alternative medical attention if treated by an Asian doctor... I mean FFS I am speechless

 

[Bodhi]

I watched some of it and its amazing how stupid many of them appear, talking about how we have the best pilots in the world so they are convinced we will not hit any civilians with our bombs lol. None of them had a plan for what to do after the bombs and completely ignored the facts that the syrian ground troops they keep talking about are vastly made up of people just as bad as Deasha/ISIS lol. It came across very much as a we have to help our friends no matter what!

Well considering we've been bombing ISIS in Iraq for 12 months now, and precisely zero civilians have been killed, I think I see where they are coming from.

To be honest I'm not sure if I see what all the handwringing was about. Were already bombing them in Iraq (with good results from what I can see), Now the HoC has voted to cross a border ISIS didn't respect anyway. As long as it's not the only plan of action then I think we've chosen the right idea.

Some of the behaviour of the Corbynistas has been shocking though, protesting outside an MPs front door for voting with her conscience? Classy. A kinder politics indeed.

 

[Bodhi]

Ps forgot to mention, I'm currently sitting on a train. Destination - Paris. As I'm staying near the Opera I'll let you know how things are 3 weeks on....

 

[old.user4556]

If you see someone reading a Koran, run like fuck.

 

[Syri]

Well considering we've been bombing ISIS in Iraq for 12 months now, and precisely zero civilians have been killed, I think I see where they are coming from.

To be honest I'm not sure if I see what all the handwringing was about. Were already bombing them in Iraq (with good results from what I can see), Now the HoC has voted to cross a border ISIS didn't respect anyway. As long as it's not the only plan of action then I think we've chosen the right idea.

Some of the behaviour of the Corbynistas has been shocking though, protesting outside an MPs front door for voting with her conscience? Classy. A kinder politics indeed.

No civilian deaths? Even your pal Dave isn't spinning that one, he's saying no reported deaths... which I don't believe for one moment, nor do a lot of people by the looks of the search results for "civilian casualties iraq". Oh, but of course, we can fling a missile over miles and hit precisely the person it's aimed at, who is absolutely definitely a terrorist, and know that any explosions, rubble and such will just turn into a gentle breeze when coming into contact with any innocent civilians.
And of course, meeting violence with violence is always the best course! I mean, it's only what half the propaganda IS are using is fuelled on. I've no sympathy for IS and their beliefs, but if anything, we're lowering ourselves below them if we back this action. They attack innocent people because in their twisted minds, they think they're attacking people who are guilty of something. We're attacking people who we think are guilty, and ignoring the fact anyone else might be around them. There are much better resolutions that could be taken, that don't fuel their propaganda machine, and don't put innocent people in harms way. Yes, some action is needed, but throwing tons of explosives at a country isn't the right move. A far better course would be a more surgical one, with ground troops, and precise targeting of only those who are guilty. Also, it would help counter their claims that we're all bloodthirsty and barbaric, and don't have other's interests in mind. Look at it this way, a family in Syria has their house destroyed, because a terrorist was living next door, and destroying one house took the next one down with it. Someone from IS tells this family that the western infidels destroyed their house, injuring their family, and possibly even killing some of them. Then they see smug Dave on the TV, saying there's no civilian casualties. They're going to be next to sign up with IS themselves.
Now, if the terrorist was simply taken care of by someone infiltrating the house, that family next door are perfectly safe. Also, evidence can be gathered from the property, which could lead to the capture of other IS members, or to the locations of their hideouts. By not destroying everything around, and only taking out the threat, and nothing else, you leave the towns in safety, and can gather more intelligence resources.
Now, I know it's not quite as clear cut as all that, and there's all kinds of hoops to jump through and all that, but let's face it, they're banking on us resorting by flexing our military might, and showing just how powerful we are, and we've played right into their hands.

 

[Bodhi]

I suspect if there had been civilian casualties from air strikes in Iraq, the usual suspects would be all over it.

Didn't manage to read much further than that, heard of a paragraph?

 

[Raven]

I like how people are crying because we hit IS controlled oil production facilities, then in the next breath say we should be stopping the flow of money.

Seeing as IS get most of their money from oil...