Opera cancelled in anticipation of islam reactions

[Blackjack]

well if they arent running it because of the reasons they stated, surely it would have been more productive to ask the Muslim council of germany if the people who apparently (even tho the police found no evidence) were going to cause a incident have a leg to stand on?
Not that it matters, because the fundementalists arent even following Islam, if they were they wouldnt be preaching the sh** they do, so i doubt it would make much difference to them. BUT they are more unlikely to do something simply to save face
Personally i think there was more to it than they claim, because if they were truely worried they could simply have just cut out/altered the scene

I'm in no way defending the opera people. They were bitches for pulling it in the first place.
As for altering the scene; i think that is the kind of selfcensurship that should be avoided.

 

[tris-]

The amount of bullshit in this thread is hilarious. tris- saying he wouldnt get offended at all, by anything basicly.

tell me what it says then?

if youd like to come along and call me a fatty bum bum half cast mother fucker (hey, i am after all) then i couldnt really give two shits. id carry on my journey to the pub to gain more excessive calories.

why is it bull shit that i dont take things to heart like a whiney little fucker who got called "a spotty toe rag" or some other shit? maybe some of us have things to be getting on with than worrying about what some nob jockey calls you. things like, i dont know, having fun? yep, sounds good to me.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I don't mind namecalling either. But that's just 'cause i usually can out-sult anyone

Yes. Outsult. It's a word and i made it up.

 

[dub]

Actually they did ask for them to construct a mosque, and they are now discussing it. In which case muslims will be the only religious group to have the government pay for the erection of a church/mosque/synagoge. The government supports them in having places to set up as mosques they even got to convert a christian church to islamic when they weren't using it.
a church is a church, whether it has big spires or a bell tower or is just a building holding all the religious doo daa.
"A Church is widely known as a building used for public religious services"
So, yes. It would make sense.

now i dunno who you meet and what they ask you about , but no major muslim organisations asked or demanded government funding for construction of a mosque

 

[Blackjack]

now i dunno who you meet and what they ask you about , but no major muslim organisations asked or demanded government funding for construction of a mosque

Not someone i met. This was Tv2 news section and was brought up because 1 of 3 danish priests was against the building of a government funded mosque, that was up for debate.
And good going with completely ignoring my point, and only taking a section. This was not about building a giant mosque to begin with, but the church issue and i'll post it again just to make sure you see it this time "A Church is widely known as a building used for public religious services"

 

[Chronictank]

"A Church is widely known as a building used for public religious services"

Churches do not have the provisions in them to support muslim prayer
Inside Fatih mosque in Istanbul

Notice lack of furniture, this is because Muslims pray on prayer mats so a church with pews make this impossible

Inside of a st-theresa-parish church

it's simply not practical to move the pews 5 times a day, lay mats, then move the pews back

 

[Blackjack]

point missed again. I wouldn't be asking them to build me a cathedral...

 

[Blackjack]

point missed again. I wouldn't be asking them to build me a cathedral...

I'm too tired to explain/defend or whatever what i said now Agree or not, i stick to my post.
We can discuss it another day, but now i deserve; rest, food and TV... ohh yeah and a medal imho

 

[Chronictank]

I'm too tired to explain/defend or whatever what i said now Agree or not, i stick to my post.
We can discuss it another day, but now i deserve; rest, food and TV... ohh yeah and a medal imho

tbh your point isn't particularly clear,
if it is that no other religious building was funded by the government, you are wrong. The government funds the Evangelical Lutheran Church, it is the only church that recieves government funding, subsequently the church is also the only one not to be taxed.

So i assumed you were talking about the thing you quoted
"A Church is widely known as a building used for public religious services"

Which i read as implying all religions should use it (i fail to see what relevence the reply directly below my post has to do with anything, i put in a picture of a church not a catherdral), and i gave you the reason why (because its not practical)

Maybe i'm just tierd but cant see what your implying other than that :S

 

[Lamp]

You're all wrong, dammit.

Everyone knows Alanis Morissette is God

 

[tris-]

i see noaim decided not to bother to reply to me. maybe next time you can think of what you want to say, hell even make notes, AND THEN post it. when you know for certain that what you said is not a bunch of bull shit.

if i cared of peoples oppinions on me/what i say/etc would i constantly say i didnt? no. thats correct, 1 point for who ever got that.

Maybe i'm just tierd but cant see what your implying other than that :S

even in my current state i would hazzard a guess that he is implying that a "religious building" is just somwhere that houses religious doo das (in is words, and i even found those words funny ).

afaik, followers of islam DO NOT need a specfic place of worship, just like teh follows of ol mighy jesus. ive been to egypt and seen them gather in groups on a busy street, with their mats, and start praying. now yes, ive ONLY been to egypt, it could well be different in other places.

lets face it. the only point in churches was to harvest money from anyone whod give it in the name of a god.

 

[noaim]

tell me what it says then?

if youd like to come along and call me a fatty bum bum half cast mother fucker (hey, i am after all) then i couldnt really give two shits. id carry on my journey to the pub to gain more excessive calories.

why is it bull shit that i dont take things to heart like a whiney little fucker who got called "a spotty toe rag" or some other shit? maybe some of us have things to be getting on with than worrying about what some nob jockey calls you. things like, i dont know, having fun? yep, sounds good to me.

Yeah, I refered to you not caring about namecalling, not to the "I wouldnt care if they put my big fat mamas head on a pole in the opera". I did, really. And if you were capable of reading you would see that I said in my previous post, which you and every other smartass muslimbasher avoided to reply to, except from the carefully selected part chosen by you to appear smart, you would see that I said that I am in Egypt atm, hence I wont reply within 5 minutes. Now reply to the entire post I made earlier will you?

Oh and btw, I am not trying to tell anyone that religion is good or bad, or what they should think this or that, I just think that if a religion has certain rules, I dont see a reason to bend them for, as in this case obviously, provocative and publicity reasons. Its not very hard to respect eachother.
I also wanted to point out that muslims are just like any other "kind" of people, there are complete idiots everywhere, western or eastern or northern or southern people aint unique because they have idiots among them.

 

[tris-]

Yeah, I refered to you not caring about namecalling, not to the "I wouldnt care if they put my big fat mamas head on a pole in the opera". I did, really. And if you were capable of reading you would see that I said in my previous post, which you and every other smartass muslimbasher avoided to reply to, except from the carefully selected part chosen by you to appear smart, you would see that I said that I am in Egypt atm, hence I wont reply within 5 minutes. Now reply to the entire post I made earlier will you?

i really have no idea what the shit you are talking about here. you said it says it all that i care not for name calling? if you didnt say that, maybe you should construct your sentances in more of a way that people other than you can understand.

ofc, im not capable of reading. thats why i study a bachelor of science and read law books, im clearly a fool and have no concept of the english language.

im not a muslim basher. if you could please quote somewhere that i said "i hate muslims" i would be very grateful. unless my mutliple personality took over, i really dont think i said that.

there is no reason for me to reply to the whole post. other people have done a good job of that, i assume. as far as i recall, only one sentance was aimed at me so there really is no need for me to reply to it all.

and just FYI, 5 minutes is NOT the same as more than one hour. if you look on a clock, you will notice it is divied into 60 minutes. possibly, your clock may have second hands. if you dont trust the minute hand, watch the second hand go round and count it for 60 * 5 (you are smart enough to work that out into minutes). you will notice that, no matter how you look at it, 5 minutes is never equal to >1 hours.

 

[tris-]

If a muslim made a movie with Hitler as a great hero in it for killing jews, I am pretty sure that would get a very upset response by most sensible people (tris- ofc wouldnt care, he would stay inside playing computergames and yelling big words on forums).

i would like to make a few points on why i would not care-

ive already explained i believe in artistic expression

im not jewish

my family is not jewish

as youve already comprehended, i cant really be fucked by getting offended/upest by anything

so to sum it up, just so you can understand - i would not be offended/upset.

the second point is with regards to computer games. i play approx 1-2 hours (im sure this is normal). the rest of my life is filled with either learning or socialising. im pretty sure this information debunks your theory that i would stay inside playing computer games. thats assuming you even knew what you were saying. i wouldnt be suprised if you didnt, you have shown before you dont really know, when it comes down to it.

third and finally, we come to the point of 'yelling' and also 'big words'. firstly, yelling on the internet would indicate excessive use of caps. thats not something ive done. big words, im not sure. if you class a word of over 10 letters as 'big' then maybe there is some issues you need to deal with. your first step to solving this is attending an english language class.

 

[Chronictank]

afaik, followers of islam DO NOT need a specfic place of worship, just like teh follows of ol mighy jesus. ive been to egypt and seen them gather in groups on a busy street, with their mats, and start praying. now yes, ive ONLY been to egypt, it could well be different in other places.

lets face it. the only point in churches was to harvest money from anyone whod give it in the name of a god.

you are absolutely right regarding Islam, i cant comment on christianity as it has been a loooong time since i even looked at it. But unfortunately in most places its impractical to pray outside, hence mosques. Once again you are absolutely correct they are not needed but it is practical to have them

Once again i cant comment for other faiths, but my local mosque makes no profit outside running costs (and emergency fund) as the rest of the money goes to charity
But ofc there are always going to be people who abuse the charity of others, such is the world we live in.

Another point is in Islamic countries noone is bothered by the prayer being read out on loud speakers for everyone to hear so it doesnt really matter if you are out on the streets as all the markets close for prayer, in the uk im sure it would annoy people living near a mosque (remember the first (fajr) prayer is at 6 in the morning) so it isnt done (with a couple of exceptions where it is predominantly muslim area after a poll was taken such as Bradford)

 

[tris-]

you are absolutely right regarding Islam, i cant comment on christianity as it has been a loooong time since i even looked at it. But unfortunately in most places its impractical to pray outside

outside in the street it may well be inpracital. but outisde in the street is not the only place . you have the work place (where by law people have to be allowed to pratice religion), your very own home, the public park (there is always bollocks loads of space in a public park), the back garden. just to name a few.

im actually pissed off at just finding out the government fund the CoE. just what the hell is that all about? it is of my oppinion that no religion should be funded by the tax payers money. the only way religion should be funded is the old fashioned way - the church demanding it off who ever attends. so they can build fancy statues and buy uber expensive lead linded stained glass windows. im just glad currently i dont earn enough to be taxed (part time ftw )

Another point is in Islamic countries noone is bothered by the prayer being read out on loud speakers for everyone to hear so it doesnt really matter if you are out on the streets as all the markets close for prayer, in the uk im sure it would annoy people living near a mosque (remember the first (fajr) prayer is at 6 in the morning)

i have actually enjoyed this where islam is a majority faith of a country that ive visited. things that dont usually happen at home are always interesting to me. but maybe everday being woken at 6 may piss me off

 

[Chronictank]

outside in the street it may well be inpracital. but outisde in the street is not the only place . you have the work place (where by law people have to be allowed to pratice religion), your very own home, the public park (there is always bollocks loads of space in a public park), the back garden. just to name a few.

yep but on fridays (the equivalent of mass) is done by a imam (priest equivalent) so you need a large area to hold it in (typically there is a hundred or so people attending in a bigger mosque)

and a mosque is used for alot more than just praying.
It is used to stage conferences, weddings (not so much nowdays), funerals, teach kids how to read arabic etc etc
So its not as if its for the sole purpose of praying (in which case i would be 100% with you, as there is no need for a building for only that) and it is quite right it shouldnt be funded by tax payers money

 

[noaim]

i really have no idea what the shit you are talking about here. you said it says it all that i care not for name calling? if you didnt say that, maybe you should construct your sentances in more of a way that people other than you can understand.

ofc, im not capable of reading. thats why i study a bachelor of science and read law books, im clearly a fool and have no concept of the english language.

im not a muslim basher. if you could please quote somewhere that i said "i hate muslims" i would be very grateful. unless my mutliple personality took over, i really dont think i said that.

there is no reason for me to reply to the whole post. other people have done a good job of that, i assume. as far as i recall, only one sentance was aimed at me so there really is no need for me to reply to it all.

and just FYI, 5 minutes is NOT the same as more than one hour. if you look on a clock, you will notice it is divied into 60 minutes. possibly, your clock may have second hands. if you dont trust the minute hand, watch the second hand go round and count it for 60 * 5 (you are smart enough to work that out into minutes). you will notice that, no matter how you look at it, 5 minutes is never equal to >1 hours.

This is what I said:

Originally Posted by noaim
The amount of bullshit in this thread is hilarious. tris- saying he wouldnt get offended at all, by anything basicly.

Where do I specify that to namecalling? Oh right I dont, but yet you seem to have read it. I am sure you have a valid reason for that though. I dont expect anyone to get offended by namecalling from someone they never met, dont know, and have never seen the face of. All I said is that if you dont get offended by ANYTHING, like you clearly state that you dont, it says alot about you, nothing else.

About the other points´(about computer-stuff, big words behind screen or whatever)...I´ll withdraw those points, I was tired and tbh a lil upset at the narrowminded people posting so much crap, especially when they basicly are the western versions of the muslim stereotype they describe, the one that thinks everyone from the other side is against us, and thats how it is!

Just let me know why its so hard to respect that muslims dont show Muhammed in movies, plays etc, certainly not with his head on a pole. Why does it have to be done if it offends that many people to that degree?

The other point, about a muslim making a movie about Hitler being a hero for killing jews, if you disregard how YOU would react to it, what do you think the general reactions throughout Europe would be? Since we arent talking about 1 specific muslims (possible) reactions. Do you think it would get a warm welcome or do you think it would be condemned? If it would be condemned, would that make western people the same as the muslims in yours and many others eyes here? Whiny fucks that cry about nothing?

Dunno wtf you are on about with the last part about 5 mins, it was just an expression to show you I wont reply if I am out, I thought that was obvious but next time I will try to be more specific so you too can understand.

 

[Thorwyn]

Just let me know why its so hard to respect that muslims dont show Muhammed in movies, plays etc, certainly not with his head on a pole.

There´s the answer right in your own sentence.
It´s perfectly ok if they decide to do certain things in their own home. But it´s perfectly NOT ok to expect other cultures to follow their rituals and rules. Just like the Hindu aren´t feeling offended and going nuts when we´re killing and eating cows and just like the Jews don´t feel offended when we´re eating pork. It´s simply none of their business. Just like they´re not asking for permission to do what they want. This is what it all boils down to.

Why does it have to be done if it offends that many people to that degree?

If it´s purely done for the purpose of insulting, then I agree that it shouldn´t be done. But if someone want´s to raise a discussion or voice his opinion, then I can´t see why not. It must be possible to criticize religion with all its negative sideeffects. And no "I`m insulted" may be an excuse to suffocate any form of critics.

 

[tris-]

All I said is that if you dont get offended by ANYTHING, like you clearly state that you dont, it says alot about you, nothing else.



.

finally you are starting to understand. i asked you what does it say about me. you didnt tell me. then to back up by stance i used an example of name calling.

but still you havent described what it says about me.

 

[Lamp]

Is it me, or is this getting way OT ?

 

[Thorwyn]

not exactly on topic either and I don´t really agree with anything it says, but this is an interesting movie clip I found:

http://www.pistolwimp.com/media/51635/

Why atheists care about religion.

 

[noaim]

finally you are starting to understand. i asked you what does it say about me. you didnt tell me. then to back up by stance i used an example of name calling.

but still you havent described what it says about me.

It says that you are most likely disrespectful to others because you seem to assume that since you dont care about anything, others shouldnt either. If you choose to deny that, I ask you now already to explain your way of arguing, using yourself not caring as an example to why others shouldnt care about anything either.

 

[noaim]

There´s the answer right in your own sentence.
It´s perfectly ok if they decide to do certain things in their own home. But it´s perfectly NOT ok to expect other cultures to follow their rituals and rules. Just like the Hindu aren´t feeling offended and going nuts when we´re killing and eating cows and just like the Jews don´t feel offended when we´re eating pork. It´s simply none of their business. Just like they´re not asking for permission to do what they want. This is what it all boils down to.



If it´s purely done for the purpose of insulting, then I agree that it shouldn´t be done. But if someone want´s to raise a discussion or voice his opinion, then I can´t see why not. It must be possible to criticize religion with all its negative sideeffects. And no "I`m insulted" may be an excuse to suffocate any form of critics.

The muslims here arent offended when I eat anything or drink anything during Ramadan too, but I can assure you that jews (and most others) WOULD be offended if a muslim made that movie with Hitler as a big hero for killing Jews, but should they? I mean, its none of their business, is it?

I can assure you that englishmen in general would be offended if a muslim decided to make a movie that grossly disrepsected say Churchill or maybe the Queen of England. Its a natural reaction from anyone, no matter if its someone from another religion or if its someone from your own backyard that does it.

I dont see why people discussing here seem to think that muslims are the only ones that gets offended by stuff showed in the media.

 

[Thorwyn]

We need to differentiate between "being offended" and "being so pissed off that I could kill someone". If someone intends to criticize something I appreciate, then it´s usually offending. So if someone says "your football team is teh sux" or "your wife reminds me of a pitbull chewing on a wasp", it´s offending, but still within the bounds of criticism and freedom of speech. Being offended is a natural reaction as you say. But the ability to voice your opinion is a natural right (at least in our culture). Criticism is never completely neutral.

The deciding thing is, how people are reacting to such offences. Basically they can a. ignore it b. respond to it verbally repsectively in the same manner or c. go nuts and resort to violence. Needless to say, c. is the worst option, yet quite popular these days.. especially amongst the radical and fundamental muslims, namely those, who´re freaking out when danish artists are making a cartoon of their religious leader.

We already agreed, that those "mulsims" are not representative for the islam religion which is generally peaceful.

I dont see why people discussing here seem to think that muslims are the only ones that gets offended by stuff showed in the media.

I never said that muslims are the only ones who´re offended. But I`m too lazy to add a "and btw. the same is true for Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindu, Scientologists and Amish".
And since in this particular case the mentioned play was cancelled because of the threats by muslim terrorists (according to the newspapers.. if that´s true is a different story), it´s obvious that they´re the main subject.

 

[noaim]

I think I need to make clear that I am mainly posting to the people who are obviously snowed in, if you read through the thread you´ll find alot of them.

I dont remember exactly what the reactions after the danish cartoons, but as far as I can remember it was mainly a big boycott of Denmark, from the muslims.

However, I do ofc agree with that violence is wrong and you SHOULD be able to show the opera or whatever without the risk of that happening, but what I am arguing is that is it worth it, because you dont only piss off the extremists that would threaten to bomb etc, but also the millions and millions of peaceful muslims who are just like you and me, only more religious.

Its too bad they cancel it because of the threats from a minority, rather than in respect for the rest.

 

[Lamp]

When London got bombed last year, what happened after ? We stuck two fingers up to the terrorists and carried on with our way of life. If you start giving in, then they win. Thats what they want. I will not go round hanging my head in fear, watching what I say in case I unintentionally offend someone who just looking for a reason to get offended and go off on one. You cannot give into these nutters. Any nutters. Whatever race or religion. It just happens that Islamic terrorists are FOTM at the moment for whatever reasons. Its a shame that peaceful Moslems are getting tarred with the brush of a small number of extremists, and all anyone can do as individuals is to decide whether you're one of those who will pick that brush up, or just leave it in the tar pot where it belongs.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Hitler as a big hero for killing Jews,

Searclight pictures presents!

Adolf the zombie Killer! - Attack of the Jewjewbies!

*grins*

*runs*

 

[tris-]

It says that you are most likely disrespectful to others because you seem to assume that since you dont care about anything, others shouldnt either. If you choose to deny that, I ask you now already to explain your way of arguing, using yourself not caring as an example to why others shouldnt care about anything either.

it depends how you are defining disrespectful. if voicing my oppinion and someone, for some reason is offended by it, then yes i am. just as everyone else in the world must be aswell.

i still find it mighty strange that someone making choices shouldnt expect something bad being said about that choice. if you choose to be religious, expect shit to be thrown. people have the right to say what ever they like on peoples own choosing.

on the other hand, calling people names because of their skin colour is not right. they had no choice in being black/white/etc so that should not be 'mocked' as it were.

 

[noaim]

it depends how you are defining disrespectful. if voicing my oppinion and someone, for some reason is offended by it, then yes i am. just as everyone else in the world must be aswell.

i still find it mighty strange that someone making choices shouldnt expect something bad being said about that choice. if you choose to be religious, expect shit to be thrown. people have the right to say what ever they like on peoples own choosing.

on the other hand, calling people names because of their skin colour is not right. they had no choice in being black/white/etc so that should not be 'mocked' as it were.

Ok, fair point. I still think it would be a better world if respect were shown though. I mean there are fat people that are fat because they eat fat food etc, but you wouldnt tell them "shit you are fat!" and not expect him to get offended by that because he choose to eat alot of fat food?