on a more serious note

[Feldegast]

CC classes

Sorc= Not only messes, aslo got offence
Healer=No offence but shitload of defence (add chain)
Bard=Poor DD shout offence, no defence except running (in this patch) I do think that mythic made a mistake by giving insta mezz to bard and If you bother to read that bard TL Stryfh did NOT ask for insta mezz. He wanted some means to defend ourself. Not a win button. What he and most reasonable bards wanted was like short duration root or snare so we could stop all those beeatches rushing the guy with the NoD.

As to us having far more bards then the other realms have primary CC classes. WHAT A LOAD OF BS. Its not like there are that many bards around. Those of us who are around are around alot however. And 2 bards in every group.. Thats the only way we can win against the zerg.. Hit n run tactics.

1 peice of advice for all you complaining beeatches.. LEARN TO PLAY THE GAME AND USE YOUR HEADS cause its not gonna get easier for you in the future.

Why do you think hibernia is ruling the servers around. Because Hibernia was the gimp realm and had to learn to play smart instead of just zerging mindlessly (yes insta mezz has some part in this but considering Hib has te lowest average population its a means to even that disadvantage out)

 

[Danya]

As Talfier says the thing that sets heros (and warriors) apart from armsmen in speccing is the requirement to only spec the two-handed type. eg. A hero specs shield 42, CS 50 and still has a large number of points for parry. An armsman specs shield 42, pole 50, thrust/slash/crush 39 and has MANY fewer for parry. That is a speccing advantage, the total number of lines they have is not relevant.
As for the absorb thing, as you say that's before buffs, after buffs the hero probably comes out on top due to dex/qui enhancements to his evade (the base chance to evade is with dex/qui at 50, almost any hero will have signficantly more).
So the net effect is a tank with better defense (due to higher parry, evade, and moose) and equal offense. Yes quite balanced.

As for bards, in and of themselves they aren't uber (yet), what makes them so effective is that there are so many of them. There are probably more bards in emain at any given time than level 30+ sorcs in the enitre of Albion.

 

[Kiros]

Im pretty sure i read something somewhere, where Mythic said that they put in the m00se to hibernia cus we the fewest ppl on every server, and therefore trying to make it more popular..

Perhaps i just forgot to take my pills

 

[Eleasias]

Level 50's Class

Albion Sorcerer 17
Hibernia Bard 13
Midgard Healer 42

hardly our fault you are so gay and the CC's dont wanna play with you

 

[Riddler]

Originally posted by Talifer


Surely it's not about the number of lines you CAN spec, it's what you need to spec to be equivalent

I don't know the ins and outs, but from this thread the Hero only need spec in CS, for full effect. The Armsman has to spec base and polearm.

So the hero spends 50 points in CS, then 50 parry
Armsman has to spend 50 slash/thrust/crush and 50 polearm, so he can't get parry to 50 (More like 27-28).

Therefore the Hero can spec more.

As for skill in DAoC, I think we need another concept, knowledge. Knowing what you should do is not skill, it's knowledge. I don't believe there is too much skill in this game, once the fighting starts, especially as a tank, you hit /stick and hit your styles (It's not totally without skill, but it's pretty much routine stuff). However knowing when to get into the fight is the deciding factor, but that's not skill it's knowledge. AoE mezzing and stun killing one by one is not skill, but knowing that's how to get rps is knowledge.

I think there is a line here between certain sets of gamers, those dedicated to achieving, who set out to aquire such knowledge (That animation is the spell from a sorc, so he might have AoE, kill him first etc...) and use it to the full, and those who just like to play and deal with things as they come (You obviously learn some things as you go, but it's just a game and you don't make notes etc...). Personally I'm the later, it's not just a DAoC thing, it's a lifestyle thing, if I'm thinking about how well I'm doing something, whether this is the most effective way to go, who I should get in the group etc, the fun disappears. Other people enjoy aquiring and using such knowledge.

An anology is how I bowl (10 pin bowling), I like bowling, I'm reasonable at it, but I'm inconsistent because I have no set technique, I don't use the little arrows on the floor, I don't stand in the exact same spot before I make my run up each time, I look at the pins and I throw towards them, it's fun. If I started to take into account where I stand, where the little arrows are I would get very bored of bowling. My girlfriend on the other hand uses the arrows, stands in a set position and has a much more consistent technique, she enjoys playing like that and her scores are a lot more consistent. Each to their own

***
Next week: DAoC is like flower arranging because...
***

Talifer

but then again, gaining the right knowledge is a skill

 

[Riddler]

oh and btw, bards have offensive stuff?

a good rvr bard doesnt spec wpns, and only, ONLY offensive (dmgwize) bards get is a short range, low dmg dd, UBER EH??????!!!!111222333 etc

and yeah, bards get insta-aoemez in 1.52, healers still have instamez (bards get single target too yey yey etc ), insta-aemez, instastun, insta-aoestun, castable single target stun, castable aoe stun (stun is teh uber, dont try to deny ), and root, just to add

and still, the meznerf doesnt only affect healers

 

[Aussie-]

Originally posted by old.Eleasias
Level 50's Class

Albion Sorcerer 17
Hibernia Bard 13
Midgard Healer 42

why lvl 50?
Gargo played alot before 50 and did his job quite well T_T

 

[Tigerius]

Yes Seifer I seem to recall the same sentence. Mentioned it in my post. Wasn't quite sure if it was mythics own words or someone on US boards though. As I said before, social engineer is a bad idea, now that Hibs across the board (in the US) have similar numbers will this ability be removed? Doubtful.

Albion has a decent number of L50 sorcs, basically any Sorc that passes 40 gets a free powerleveling to 50. No sorry that's mean but basically they level v. easily from there on. If you however check overall numbers of say 40+ (RvR capable) Sorcs I think Bards will far exceed. Sorcs aren't all rewarding in RvR either.
Something that I believe goes for alot of Healers, that were raised as PvE healers.

Bards may be lacking some offense if not specced battlebard, but like all other music classes no doubt farily rewarding and interesting to play. Their DD shout isn't weak on the slightest BTW

Correct me if I'm wrong but Hibernia seems to have few 50's across the board due to a hard time doing the final exp push to 50 possibly? Many of those yellow cons I fight regurarly not being 50 has been a shocking experience

 

[Vireb]

Originally posted by old.Verata
Just a few months ago, EVERYONE agreed that Hib, and it's classes, we're very gimped. Hib was regarded as the gimp realm and RvR would be dominated by Mids and Albs. Since then, Hib hasn't really gotten much love (that comes in the next patch) but suddenly we're overpowered? Hell, that's not really fair. Admittedly, we've got more high level players now than we've had before and everyone is getting better at RvR each day, but why does that make us overpowered?



Then piss off and play something else, you utter fuckwit.

In fact, how about bringing your uberness and duelling me? Maybe getting owned by a Warden will be enough to convince you to sod off and finally put you out of our misery...

cough i killed you on goore lvl 46 friar your not that l33t admitedly you killed me too

 

[Vireb]

Originally posted by old.Eleasias
Level 50's Class

Albion Sorcerer 17
Hibernia Bard 13
Midgard Healer 42

hardly our fault you are so gay and the CC's dont wanna play with you

armor of sorc = paper
armor of healer = chain
armor of bard = scale (not sure was guess)

hp of sorc at lvl 50 unbuffed proberly 750 - 800
hp of bard 1000+ as with healer
you gettit now ?
insta mez ? okies minstrel get single insta as for ae insta ok clerics get it but 1 its pbae and 2 its getting nerfed

point being you see hib/mids bamn sorc is down while hes casting mez before his qc even lands

 

[Vireb]

Originally posted by old.chesnor


Err, nice math there....

Without dex/qui modifiers, a hero will evade one hit in 20. So if you do the math, you will notice that over time an Armsman absorbs more dmg.

E.g. 20 hits @ 100dmg before absorb

Armsman takes 20 x (100-34) = 1320 total dmg
Hero takes 20 x (100-27) - (100-27) = 1387 total dmg

.

show me an unbuffed tank and ill laugh.

btw okies so arms spec 2 lines your forgetting parry hero = 50 parry polearms proberly about 25.on this parry you have a base of 5% with .5% per spec lvl so a 50 parry hero is looking at 30% parry and a polearms is 17.5% meaning a diff of 12.5%. that will make a big diff on that table (12.5% of 20 hits is 2.5)
also even without parry included okies so your lil firby hero is taking 67 more dmg in 20 hits firby dont liek this hits the moose boom 700 more hp on the firby.

soo may i quote you

errr, nice math there...............

 

[Feldegast]

Originally posted by Vireb

armor of sorc = paper
armor of healer = chain
armor of bard = scale (not sure was guess)

hp of sorc at lvl 50 unbuffed proberly 750 - 800
hp of bard 1000+ as with healer
you gettit now ?
insta mez ? okies minstrel get single insta as for ae insta ok clerics get it but 1 its pbae and 2 its getting nerfed

point being you see hib/mids bamn sorc is down while hes casting mez before his qc even lands

Bard only gets reinforced (unlike the other music classes and unlike the other naturalists, strange)

Also just wanted to add that a battle bard even id he is full specced in blunt cant hit for squat due to beeing on the naturalist dmg table)
DD hits for about 150-200 so its not that much.

Observation in emain today: Hib vs Alb zerg: Albs zerged in got mezzed and beaten to a bloody pulp.
5 mins later Mids moves in: Mids move in and splits into two groups trying from each side. Almost worked and was a much harder fight even tho Mids where less then Albs..

Albs really have to learn to play (I know its a bit harsh but this wasnt the first time that happened.. U can only win when U Zerg or? Prove me wrong pls as im in favour of a balanced RvR)

 

[old.Filip]

hmm .. Feldgast i think it is hard to explain when you dotn wanna listen..

i allmost want you to be a part of the alb groups so you can see it with you own eye's
I have played hib on the Us-servers (kay), i have played mid allso.
and most of the flames i hear here was what i heard on the /gu and /as as hib allso . about lame albs that cant play..
i have no clue how to visualise it for you guy's how it is to play without AE mezzers

little story maybe.

last nigth we went to intersept hibs otw to emain .. 2 groups from alliance no AE mezz in either groups..

to make a trap like that work we use Stealth scouts far ahead of us to identifie the hib groups coming .. telling if there is bard's with the groups (names/colors/race).. every things go well when we scout and make sure the bards get stopped.. then at some point closer to ligen gate we have a small encounter ....
diffenrence this time is that the scouts didnt have a chance to warn us about the new spawn of hibs coming our way ...
what happens `` well gues we got AE mezz and killed ...


i said in an earlyer post ... try to make a few runs in emain where bards cant mezz only your ligth speced eldritchs then you know how it is to be alb..

i know for sure the players in Hib aint better than the Alb's
you got some good and some bad players same as us..
(like the nice Elf casters who AE after the bard mezz .. luv him)

If you cant understand what power the AE mezz is i really think you guys are the ppl with the lesser insigth on this game

Filip
Herfølge Boldklub

 

[Talifer]

Level 40+

Sorc = 51 (Total population 1204, therefore 4.2% sorcs)
Bard = 66 (Total population 619, therefore 10.7% bards)
Healer = 119 (Total population 811, therefore 14.7% healers)

This means if everyone were in Emain in full groups

Alb group with sorc 51, without 99.5
Hibs groups with bard 66, without 11.3
Mid groups with healer... all of them

So
33.8% of albs have a sorc
85.7% of hibs have a bard
100% of mids have a healer

Talifer



Level 40+ > RR2

Sorc = 36
Bard = 52
Healer = 85

Level 40+ > RR3

Sorc = 12
Bard = 23
Healer = 27


[Edit: Added percentages]

 

[old.Verata]

Originally posted by Vireb


cough i killed you on goore lvl 46 friar your not that l33t admitedly you killed me too

Hey I never admitted to being leet. I'm the most defensively orientated class in the game. I can't hit for shit. All I can do is hope I don't get hit too hard and that my bubble and parry can keep me alive long enough to land the 40 or so hits it takes me to kill a caster. I just hoped getting beaten by a Warden would embarass Karam enough to make him sod off and leave us alone

Oh, that first fight I didn't have my bubble up and learnt the hard way how hard you buggers hit. The second time I had it up, but didn't notice if you got a hit in

 

[Tigerius]

Thank you Talifer. Now that's what I call interesting statistics

Feldegast, I'm guessing you need to be reminded of what we were doing with ease down in Cruachan Gorge last week. Plenty of Hib groups larger than our size falling without casualties due to our skillfull mez (lol), bards that never got half a spell off. You of course responded with zergs when 90% of the group encounters were losses.

Oh yeah the Hibs are so skilled.
I'd gladly show you again but Group Purge makes the example harder to prove.

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by old.Rahvinn
Hibs are already totaly outnumbered and outmatched by most classes and you start spouting that someones better than you?
Well good I hope those Heros stomp on you a bit

Heros dont have instas, they may have with RA's

Minstrals, a stealth class with dds and mez, your armsmen are more versatile than Heros, a elementalist well specced are better than void eldies, and we are supposed to be the best magical race. Your armor is better than our scale crap, which only 4 out of 11 of us can use, you got polearms, crossbows etc.

LOL - now, i'm not agreeing with karam here, but WTF planet are you on?
You *DO* have the best casters, you have the best heavy tank (albeit the worst light tank), you have the best support class - in one patches' time, the two best support classes....
jesus
wake up
Next patch, hibs will be utterly bloody unstoppable. Albs might just win from time to time if every single minstrel buys speed of sound and uses it properly, but...God.

 

[Feldegast]

Filip

I do understand the power of AoE mezz. In small scale RvR its not the deciding factor, there its depending on who sees who first. In large scale RvR however there's atleast some ways to preventing the whole army from getting mezzed (but as we all know controlling a large mass of ppl is very hard )

I still stick to my idea that hibs are better players(or atleast better to work together as a team) because beeing used to beeing the underdog realm is starting to pay off. When I started RvR:in our tanks would run of and hit as many as possible (lol) and mages would AoE and we would loose. Nowadays I usually have one or two shield tanks guarding my ass so I can get the mezzes in (Thx Elyne)

Also Its the mentalist who is the secondary mezzer, not the light eld (well they might be able to also but Menta is secondary according to mytic). And one more thing, I cant understand howU can be so afraid of bards look what the healer got up his sleeves. Insta aoe mezz insta-aoestun single target of both and castable versions..

(Btw I hate your little camping on the road to emain always half a sleep first run of the day but on the other hand it makes me more alert in the long run)

And once again, I really wish that Mythic had given us pbaoe mezz rather then normalranged insta we get in 1.52 (baad decision by them) Why cant the just listen, they knew bards wanted some defence but refused to listen to what we said.. (oh got a bit out of track there)

kthxbye

edit: typos

 

[Feldegast]

Originally posted by Tigerius

Feldegast, I'm guessing you need to be reminded of what we were doing with ease down in Cruachan Gorge last week. Plenty of Hib groups larger than our size falling without casualties due to our skillfull mez (lol), bards that never got half a spell off. You of course responded with zergs when 90% of the group encounters were losses.

As I stated in the post above In small scale RvR U have the upper hand when the enemy aint awhere of where U are (kind of hard to hide an entire army)

I personally like small scale better, but maybe thats just me.

I am not putting down the zerg here (or atleast trying not to) only time I dont like it is when hibbies cant muster a decent force themselfes (3 fg's min).
Also read something interesting on the whineboards, what if they removed amg and mmg now wouldnt that be a interesting twist. On the other hand making emain a less obvious playground compared to the other frontiers would also be nice. (loosing my subject again)

 

[old.Filip]

I do understand the power of AoE mezz. In small scale RvR its not the deciding factor, there its depending on who sees who first.

dunno if the quote worked ) hopes ..

well i agree that who sees who first matters a lot ..

but lets say both groups see's eacher other at the same time .

if the hib bard runs in front and show off with his lut .. yum yum
then i would say fair a squar match ...

meaning ...

option 1

i mezz bard before he mezzes my group ... i die bard is mezzed and there is a nice 7v7 ..

option 2.

bard mezz me first... we dead..


but sometimes the hib bard is inside the group ... how the hell shall i find him.. target him and mezz him before he just targets some1 in my group and get at least 2-4 mezzed (even though we spread out)
or if you are so lucky that cutheveran is there and he uses his instant to interupt me (insane range on that it seems)

(the range on my instants are 700 .. the mezz range is 1500)

and bout the mids healers yeps ... we whine a lot about them too..

tbh i think the mids should win every 8v8 (if they got 1-2 healers in group) simply becuase of the mezz ..

albs got the strongest stealth team but in group rvr we keep running and the stealth is out of the qustion

Btw look at the rr3 40+ sorcs we got ... 12 ... 12 for the zerg ...

no wonder i missing em

edit:

btw
Light eldritc

Way of the Sun SKILL COST SPENT
Direct Damage Line 1 2 3 6 9 13 17 24 33 41 50
3 Gleam Blast

Stun Line 5 15 26 36 46
5 Prismatic Flare

Shadow Control (Way of the Sun Specialization)
Direct Damage Line 1 5 8 12 16 22 28 35 45
1 Shadowburst

Debuff Dex/Qui Line 3 6 9 13 18 25 36 46

AE Mezmerize Line 4 15 26 37 47

Archer Range Debuff Line 10 19 24 32 40

...
imo they share the nr1 rvr caster spot with Darkness RM's

 

[sorusi]

One reason why lots of sorcs arnt rvring anymore is coz they get poooor protection!!.. ppl breaking mezz with aoe, tanks that just pick 1 target each etc etc.

Combine this with robe & low hps ./reroll - thats what the most do..

Well atleast hibbs are GREAT at handeling the mezzes, most mezzes they break is by stun, grats hibb

Midgar survives coz they got their uber aoe stun/mezz on insta +
insta heals

unstunned zerker kills an sorc before he get to press the sprint button lol....

This is maybe coz albion are "new" with mezzing - we didnt have to many sorcs before and we havnt been useing it to much in rvr, untill lately....

Oh well my coppers.. Cya in the frontiers/df

 

[old.Rahvinn]

Originally posted by old.LandShark


LOL - now, i'm not agreeing with karam here, but WTF planet are you on?
You *DO* have the best casters, you have the best heavy tank (albeit the worst light tank), you have the best support class - in one patches' time, the two best support classes....
jesus
wake up
Next patch, hibs will be utterly bloody unstoppable. Albs might just win from time to time if every single minstrel buys speed of sound and uses it properly, but...God.

Just when I thought no one stupider come come onto the forums.......
:sleeping:

 

[old.Second]

Originally posted by old.Rahvinn
Karam I think I speak for every hib Hero when I say

Fuck off and die.

Wow what a creative answer we got here...:sleeping: Is all heroes as mature as you?=)

He wanted a good answer not a kiddi's answer.

 

[old.Arya]

Originally posted by old.Second



Wow what a creative answer we got here...:sleeping: Is all heroes as mature as you?=)

Rahvinn --> Ranger

 

[old.Second]

well he went out as a spokesman for the heroes=)

So if they send him to say their opinion then you need to ask

 

[old.LandShark]

Originally posted by old.Rahvinn



Just when I thought no one stupider come come onto the forums.......
:sleeping:

Useful post there.
Notice you didn't deny it?
Play on a non-PvP server in the US, and then try to tell me bard isn't the single best support class in the game. Try and tell me the 9sec baseline stun all hib casters have isn't totally overpowering in combination with at least 4 possible specs.
Btw, you think Hero doesn't have an insta. Therefore you are clearly ignorant. Thank you, please drive through.

 

[-Laico-]

Originally posted by old.Rahvinn
Karam I think I speak for every hib Hero when I say

Fuck off and die.

Hibs are already totaly outnumbered and outmatched by most classes and you start spouting that someones better than you?
Well good I hope those Heros stomp on you a bit

Heros dont have instas, they may have with RA's

Minstrals, a stealth class with dds and mez, your armsmen are more versatile than Heros, a elementalist well specced are better than void eldies, and we are supposed to be the best magical race. Your armor is better than our scale crap, which only 4 out of 11 of us can use, you got polearms, crossbows etc.

Albs are little boys in tin cans, hibs and mids are bred fighters and are therefor blessed with moose and bear form.

You got a problem with a hib class who is semi good in rvr bitch to someone who cares :sleeping:

Well,

Firstly be more polite.He is not an animal that u push around..

And yes Hero's are well out powered with RA's m00se gives %50 heal and some str i think with buffs and m00se u get over 3000 hp when u get %10 hp u can use IP and get back to 3000 hp again. Well thats not fair alb and mid tanks havent got anything like that.Im not flaming but its true u got the best casters and the most heavy tanks but your not much on numbers soon with the new adds hib will own..Wish GOA fixxes sth bout that..

 

[old.Arya]

Why you complaining now ?

Beofre RA:
Hero Armsman Warrior
Moose - -
1 0 0

After RA:
Hero Armsman Warrior
Moose/IP IP IP

2 1 1



See my point ? Still only a moose diference

And it is not that Heroes use Moose / IP every second ^^
Thats like saying our casters stun for 5 mins, and doing pb damage at a range of 1750

 

[Karam_gruul]

Originally posted by old.Arya
Why you complaining now ?
Hero Armsman Warrior
Moose

coz hib are over powered? if any of they're races looked half decent they'd be the biggest realm in the game. its simply coz every single race that hib has is painfully painfully crap looking.

the other day i got hit by some gay wizard for 700 dmg. now thats over powered. its just silly, killing a lvl 50 armsman in 2 spells. thats wearing full epic armour too. something needs to be done lol.

and wtf u talking about arya, my entire point is that hero's shouldnt have, and dont need moose. its totally unbalancing. BUT your a sword/board hero, so your still rubbish

 

[old.Arya]

Stop quoting half finished posts