Off-topic Mafia #7 Game Thread

[Levin]

the thing is, i'm not trying to get ECA hanged by all costs, i'm trying to figure out who to vote.

Yeah, ECA seems almost as sure about you, as I was of him last game. Are you really that sure, ECA? And if so, could you do a short summary again of why?

 

[ECA]

the thing is, i'm not trying to get ECA hanged by all costs, i'm trying to figure out who to vote.

No you're trying to paint yourself as a bumbling villager which you play to good for, what you're doing is by design and implicates you.

 

[Will]

Tohtori, you voted for Kirennia at 7.48am, ECA at 10.40am, and cancelled the vote at 12.09pm. If everyone voted like that, and claimed they were just testing the waters, I'm sure you'd jump down their throats. If you are innocent, which I'm doubting right now, you aren't giving people any time to fall into your cunning trap. You are certainly confusing the hell out of people, which doesn't help anyone.

Unvote
Vote : old.Tohtori

 

[ECA]

Yeah, ECA seems almost as sure about you, as I was of him last game. Are you really that sure, ECA? And if so, could you do a short summary again of why?

I'm not that sure but fairly convinced.

Toth plays this game well, look at his track record - this random accusations/stuff is great cover - he's thrown assertions all over the place trying to look like a villager who's digging for the truth, but at the same time:

Levin had 3 votes against him:


Myself/fl3a were active and if we were mafia with anyone except levin we'd have jumped on that vote.

That means the only combos that work with levin are :

levin+myself
levin+fl3a
levin+vasc.

a fellow mafia wouldnt vote for his teamy and leave the possibility of him getting nuked on day 1.

That means

toht/kirennia/will cannot be mafia with levin.

It also means that just from a maths POV w/ reduced possible combinations that toht/kirennia/will/vasc are much more likely to be mafia.

Of those toht is playing his random game and trying to look like a bumbling idiot villager, which he's too good for.

He's also cast aspersions on my logic w/ regard to possible combinations which isnt aspersionable imo.

Hence the vote for toht.


He's also saying I'm holding a grudge against him from last game....the game where we were on the same team and won?

uh...hows that work?

 

[old.Tohtori]

No you're trying to paint yourself as a bumbling villager which you play to good for, what you're doing is by design and implicates you.

I'm far from bumbling, i'm trying to figure out a day one vote. You've been there, it's not easy. This is my way of doing so.

Tohtori, you voted for Kirennia at 7.48am, ECA at 10.40am, and cancelled the vote at 12.09pm. If everyone voted like that, and claimed they were just testing the waters, I'm sure you'd jump down their throats. If you are innocent, which I'm doubting right now, you aren't giving people any time to fall into your cunning trap. You are certainly confusing the hell out of people, which doesn't help anyone.

I voted for kirennia in the morning, jsut as i woke up really, because i was bored that there was no action in this game.

That all.

I unvoted because i wanted to snap at ECA. Forgot to add my vote back to kirennia as it seems(my bad). vote: kirennia <--was supposed to follow unvoting ECA.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Of those toht is playing his random game and trying to look like a bumbling idiot villager, which he's too good for.

He's also cast aspersions on my logic w/ regard to possible combinations which isnt aspersionable imo.

He's also saying I'm holding a grudge against him from last game....the game where we were on the same team and won?

uh...hows that work?

First: No random game. As explained many times. Stop forcing that lie.

Second: I just dno't think your logic holds water as Levin coud very well be mafia. It's all absed on levin NOT being mafia. Because otherwise, i couldn't be, yet you're voting for me. And you can't know if levin is mafia unless you ARE mafia.

And finally:

That's your misunderstanding. I'm not saying you're holding a grudge, NOT saying that, i'm saying you're using my mafia past against me. GET IT ALREADY.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And if you can't listen to that, you're mafia for one single reason, villagers actually listen to what's being said and not just force a hanging.

 

[ECA]

First: No random game. As explained many times. Stop forcing that lie.

Second: I just dno't think your logic holds water as Levin coud very well be mafia. It's all absed on levin NOT being mafia. Because otherwise, i couldn't be, yet you're voting for me. And you can't know if levin is mafia unless you ARE mafia.

And finally:

That's your misunderstanding. I'm not saying you're holding a grudge, NOT saying that, i'm saying you're using my mafia past against me. GET IT ALREADY.

I'm not sure what your first point is. ?

Second point - I've said if you read carefully - levin can be mafia. But that means his partner is myself/fl3a/vasc as it wouldnt make sense to put your teammate on 3 votes and risk him getting gibbed.

And thirdly - of course I'm using your mafia past as information - how you play when mafia is perfectly relevant to the game. I'm not holding it against you, comparing past play to present play is perfectly fair however.


Also - your counterpoints all look nice but - uh they make no sense if you actually think about it.

 

[ECA]

Also it makes no sense for me to be mafia: consider if I just add my vote on levin instead and just sit here quietly as opposed to making a lot of noise and drawing attention, vs playing like this.

Its pretty obvious its much better for me to add on levin, end the turn and avoid attention.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Also - your counterpoints all look nice but - uh they make no sense if you actually think about it.

Yeah there's real point in trying to explain anything.

You think i'm mafia, fine, hang me and lose the game. Go right ahead. Heck i'll cast the last vote on myself even.

 

[old.Tohtori]

You're playing exactly like me last game. And as you yourself said, let's use past experience.

 

[ECA]

Yeah there's real point in trying to explain anything.

You think i'm mafia, fine, hang me and lose the game. Go right ahead. Heck i'll cast the last vote on myself even.

Who said there isnt any point - you dont actually counter any of my points you go off on a tangent in your replies just like you did here and try to make it about something else without arguing against my logic.

And also - first of all "I'm using your tactics" but preivously you said "you dont know what my tactics were".

Which is it?

 

[Levin]

Second: I just dno't think your logic holds water as Levin coud very well be mafia. It's all absed on levin NOT being mafia. Because otherwise, i couldn't be, yet you're voting for me. And you can't know if levin is mafia unless you ARE mafia.

Well, *I* know I'm not mafia, so ECA's logic actually works fine for me. I'm not saying you're mafia, Tohtori, but in my eyes ECA looks innocent and his theory makes sense as far as saying that he and Fl3a are not mafia.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Who said there isnt any point - you dont actually counter any of my points you go off on a tangent in your replies just like you did here and try to make it about something else without arguing against my logic.

And also - first of all "I'm using your tactics" but preivously you said "you dont know what my tactics were".

Which is it?

You're acting like me, play by play really, even if you don't know exactly what my gameplan was last time. Simple really.

I did counter your points, or your accusations, but you ignore all points made and simply say "you're just doing this and that" and fall on the "headless chicken" thing every time.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well, *I* know I'm not mafia, so ECA's logic actually works fine for me. I'm not saying you're mafia, Tohtori, but in my eyes ECA looks innocent and his theory makes sense as far as saying that he and Fl3a are not mafia.

The thing is, if we take it from your perspective, it doesn't prove anything.

Except that you're not mafia.

like i said earlier, not jumping on the last vote is a viable option as it "proves" innocence, just like ECA is doing right now.

fl3a debunking my theory with the "oh you're doing this", is also viable tactic.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It doesn't prove anything except that you're not mafia <--correction to above.

 

[ECA]

You are talking air trying to distract from my points that make you mafia.

Logic of 3 votes on levin - explained 10x will do so again.

Will, Kirennia and Tohtori voted for Levin, this means myself/fl3a/vasc could have ended the turn and got a kill on an innocent by votes and then killed another at night.

This means that unless levin is specifically mafia with myself/vasc/fl3a he shouldnt be mafia - I'm not saying he isnt, just the chance he is is reduced by 60% seeing as I know I'm not mafia

This means in my eyes, levin can only be mafia with fl3a or vasc.
Its just simple maths that reduces their combos.
Tohtori will not address this.

Btw, the logic of this also dictates that if tohtori is mafia his only potential partners are:

Will, Kirennia, Vasc.

Fl3a/myself/ would have jumped on the levin vote, and he wouldnt risk us jumping on his 3 vote count for Levin if his partner was levin.

Levins potential mafia combos are : myself/vasc/fl3a

Kirennias possible partners are anyone.

Wills possible partners are anyone.


Vascs potential partners are will/kirennia/tohtori. ( you have to assume if it was vasc+fl3a, fl3a would have jumped on and got levin lynched therefore we can discount it ).

MY only possible mafia partner is Levin - if it was anyone else I would have jumped on that vote immediately, and thus the chance I'm mafia is mathematically low if you take an independant viewpoint.



Yet you won't respond to any of this instead you try and draw the argument into being about voting for you because of the last game/whatever or making abstract arguments to divert attention from my logic.

 

[ECA]

Also, if you were a villager you'd understand my logic instead of trying to rubbish it and draw attention away from it, but you're not, hence you are mafiascum.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yet you won't respond to any of this instead you try and draw the argument into being about voting for you because of the last game/whatever or making abstract arguments to divert attention from my logic.

Pot-Kettle-Indonesian Aboriginal.

I've talked about your logic, and even if i find the "i'm the most innocent of all" viewpoint in a little, if not alot, suspicious, there are SOME points to it.

But you're assuming this on the "mafia would have taken the shot at levin". And i'm basing my views on the "mafia didn't take it because..."

You're not commenting on my views anymore then i am on yours(don't have time to nitpick them at work thoroughly), but you ARE advocating hanging me for doing what YOU are doing.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Also, if you were a villager you'd understand my logic instead of trying to rubbish it and draw attention away from it, but you're not, hence you are mafiascum.

And this is just repeating what i said, AGAIN.

With the difference that your point in all this is show i'm the bad one, while you're squeaky clean.

While my point is, to defend myself against accusations.

If me, Vasc, kirennia AND Will are mafia, that leaves you, levin and fl3a out. Isn't that convinient?

Especially since you won't even comment on the fact that your accusations blame half the town, when there's only two mafia.

 

[ECA]

No I'm using cold hard logic - and you're still trying to use distracting arguments.
Nuff said.

While not shooting mafia does gain some deception advantages the benefits of killing an innocent and having a nightkill far far outweigh the deceptive value.

Again I'm using purely logic - and you're using diversionary tactics.

 

[Levin]

Btw, the logic of this also dictates that if tohtori is mafia his only potential partners are:

Will, Kirennia, Vasc.

Fl3a/myself/ would have jumped on the levin vote, and he wouldnt risk us jumping on his 3 vote count for Levin if his partner was levin.

Levins potential mafia combos are : myself/vasc/fl3a

Kirennias possible partners are anyone.

Wills possible partners are anyone.

What I still don't understand then, however is, according to the math, wouldn't a vote for Kirennia or Will be more likely to hit a mafia? I don't contest your vote for Tohtori, but you are then basing it more on feeling than on the maths shown here? Once again, no comment about the vote otherwise - time will tell if you're right.

At least I'm glad that according to maths my suspect Kirennia is likely to be mafia.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No I'm using cold hard logic - and you're still trying to use distracting arguments.
Nuff said.

While not shooting mafia does gain some deception advantages the benefits of killing an innocent and having a nightkill far far outweigh the deceptive value.

Again I'm using purely logic - and you're using diversionary tactics.

And again, you don't discuss any points, just say "no you confuse!" and run behind your own claims.

Again, pot, kettle...

 

[ECA]

And this is just repeating what i said, AGAIN.

With the difference that your point in all this is show i'm the bad one, while you're squeaky clean.

While my point is, to defend myself against accusations.

If me, Vasc, kirennia AND Will are mafia, that leaves you, levin and fl3a out. Isn't that convinient?

Especially since you won't even comment on the fact that your accusations blame half the town, when there's only two mafia.

Again, ignore my logic POV while arguing about something irrelevant.

So lets cut out the diversionary shit - I'm willing to address your points you refuse to address mine while saying I'm being diversionary - when in fact I'm being confrontational and straight forward.

If me, Vasc, kirennia AND Will are mafia, that leaves you, levin and fl3a out. Isn't that convinient?

There are only two mafia.... so no, it isnt conveniant, its a byproduct of the facts - and I dont claim levin and fl3a are innocent, I just argue that the only way that combo works is if both are guilty - a point I have made several times but you refuse to comment on instead talking drivel and distracting from the argument.

Especially since you won't even comment on the fact that your accusations blame half the town, when there's only two mafia.

So first its conveniant that 3 people are not mafia, but now just one paragraph below you remind us there are 2 mafia?

Again - diversionary distortions from you, while at the same time trying to distract everyone from my logical POV.

 

[ECA]

What I still don't understand then, however is, according to the math, wouldn't a vote for Kirennia or Will be more likely to hit a mafia? I don't contest your vote for Tohtori, but you are then basing it more on feeling than on the maths shown here? Once again, no comment about the vote otherwise - time will tell if you're right.

At least I'm glad that according to maths my suspect Kirennia is likely to be mafia.

Agree - the maths makes will/kirennia the most likely mafia, but tohtori is completely ignoring any of my valid arguments while at the same time distorting them and then attacking that and refusing to argue against my logic, claiming that its better for us to not hang Levin for deceptive purposes rather than gain 2 innocent kills - a claim that is obviously completely absurd.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well i'll be so clear that you'll understand:

I dont claim levin and fl3a are innocent,

So you're saying EVERYONE can be mafia?

Stop trying to be so "logical" while at the same accusing me of doing something you do at the same time.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Agree - the maths makes will/kirennia the most likely mafia, but tohtori is completely ignoring any of my valid arguments while at the same time distorting them and then attacking that and refusing to argue against my logic, claiming that its better for us to not hang Levin for deceptive purposes rather than gain 2 innocent kills - a claim that is obviously completely absurd.

AGAIN!!!

Wrong!

Not hanging levin is a completely valid tactic for later purpose. But you ignore it, as you claim i do to you.

I'm not distorting either, you're just saying i do. Which, ironiy here we come, is distorting.

 

[old.Tohtori]

If you want me to acknowledge your points, drop the accusations and post your claims in a normal manner. Then address my points. And i could actually answer you in any normal sense.

 

[ECA]

Wow - the last 3 posts of yours are retarded.

Of course everyone can be mafia - you are choosing to ignore that having 3 votes on Levin makes it less likely due to combinatorial maths that certain people are mafia - you refuse to talk about this and make false assumptions or assertions about what I'm trying to say while drawing attentiona way from it.


In your 2nd post you claim I'm ignoring your point - I have not ignored your point I have answered it.

I have said - yes not voting for levin is a valid deceptive tactic - however having 2 dead villagers far outweighs that deception this early in the game - A POINT WHICH YOU DO NOT ANSWER.

Basically - you ignore all my points, make up some dumb counter argument that diverts attention away from it and then claim I'm the one doing it.

That said, I think its clear enough to everyone else you are doing it and hopefully enough to get you lynched.

And to your third point - I have posted in a logical fashion and my vote for you comes from those logical conclusions.

I have addressed all your points while you claim I have not, all the while you ignore mine and claim I am trying to distract people - from what? There are no other arguments for lynching someone except mine.

And you will no doubt jump on this trying to create enough thread-trash that people miss my point and dont lynch you.

 

[Levin]

claiming that its better for us to not hang Levin for deceptive purposes rather than gain 2 innocent kills - a claim that is obviously completely absurd.

Yes, I am obliged to agree. The worth of killing off two townies is huge and easy to measure.

I suppose it's harder to measure the value of the deception though. Since everyone is aware that "they could have done this to get the INNOCENT stamp", its value decreases since eyes would be on them anyway. Then again, since everyone knows THAT... and it goes on in circles.

At the end of it all, given that person A has a chance to vote person B,who we assume is innocent, out, I would say that person A is about 60-70% likely to be innocent. And then you'd of course have to subtract for the factor that nobody but person B and the mafia knows if person B actually is innocent.