News Obese man discovers perpetual energy :p

[Elkie]

BMI is a bunch of nonsense. I always say the scale does not really mean anything, if you look healthy and not in the category of overly slim or fat then fine.

ps. Hi.

 

[rynnor]

I'm not interested in proving anything. I agreed he shouldn't have the surgery for logical reasons. It is the attitude that people seem to be displaying that they are somehow entitled to cast judgement over someone simply asking for help, whether that be surgical or psychological. This is a human being we discussing. The name calling and the assumptions about obese people in general are unnecessary, as is the tone of this thread. It amazes me how people seem to love pointing out other people's flaws, almost as if it makes them feel better about their own.

Sadly fat apologists like yourself are part of the problem - there are medical reasons for a small percentage of people to get fat but we are in the middle of a societal change where lower exercise combined with an increasingly calorific diet has lead to an explosion in numbers.

Every obese person on the news blames 'medical conditions' rather than themselves - do you honestly believe they are all blameless when it comes to their conditions?

If you create an environment where every obese person is a 'victim' of a 'medical condition' you are dis-empowering them and making them consequently less capable of helping themselves out of the situation by their own efforts.

 

[Talivar]

One of the largest factors for increase in weight is ignorance of how the body truly works and the information passed down from the goverments. Many overweight people go onto low fat but very high sugar/carb diets and wonder why they do not lose weight, this then causes them to lose faith and give up. If these people where to be tld of the other options like high fat low carb diets im sure we would see more success. We need to remeber the foundation for low fat diets came from a man called ancel keyes (spelling?) and his research, this research has long since been shown to have been not honest but still we base whole low fat diet concept on it.

 

[Helme]

Obesity is an economical problem in my opinion, it's no coincidence that the poorer someone is, the more likely they are to be overweight. It's actually quite hard to eat healthy on a small budget, even harder to make it taste as good as the cheap stuff that's pretty much poison.

It also extends to other things like schools not being able to offer proper education about how to eat healthy, or hell just teaching kids to cook in the first place. I was really surprised when I realised that I was the only person at my job out of six who could actually make a decent meal. The rest didn't take the chance to learn at home, and their school didn't offer anything close to what I received so now they buy pre-made stuff.

I guess it also doesn't help that we're cutting down on phys ed, or kids just skip it - especially overweight kids because they don't want to be ridiculed.

 

[Raven]

Thats probably because they sit around eating all day. You don't see poor people in developing countries with a rolls of fat. Lazy + too much food = fatties

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Lies, the kids have fat bellies all the time!

 

[Helme]

That's because poor people in poor countries eat things like rice with some vegetables, or at least they were until we started forcing them away from their farmlands so now they're also starting to eat the shit we eat and are getting fatter.

 

[Raven]

I didn't force anyone off their land!

 

[megadave]

It's not just because they're too poor, although I agree that doesn't help, but there's plenty you can cook for next to nothing. Problem is they're too stupid or lazy to actually cook, they'd rather microwave some horrible shit instead.

 

[Jeros]

My BMI is 15.48 apparently

Shit :/

 

[Fafnir]

That's because poor people in poor countries eat things like rice with some vegetables, or at least they were until we started forcing them away from their farmlands so now they're also starting to eat the shit we eat and are getting fatter.

If all they could eat was McD then they would get fat. A cheese burger from McD is 350 kcal if you only ate a cheese burger when you where hungry how many would you reach?

Myself since i tested around 10. Normal "old timers" food i would prolly need 3-5 burgers.

And well alot of people dont have food they can micro, but dunno the "real" proble, since they had it the past 30 years.

 

[ford prefect]

Sadly fat apologists like yourself are part of the problem - there are medical reasons for a small percentage of people to get fat but we are in the middle of a societal change where lower exercise combined with an increasingly calorific diet has lead to an explosion in numbers.

Every obese person on the news blames 'medical conditions' rather than themselves - do you honestly believe they are all blameless when it comes to their conditions?

If you create an environment where every obese person is a 'victim' of a 'medical condition' you are dis-empowering them and making them consequently less capable of helping themselves out of the situation by their own efforts.

You are right, it is a small percentage, but how do you know that this chap isn't one of those? Even if he isn't, do you honestly think ridiculing people is part of the solution? And where exactly does it stop? Your opening post isn't funny or clever, it is cruel and makes assumptions you have no business making.

Do you honestly think singling people out and making them an object of derision is in someway helpful? I would say that people who do actively over eat do so for a reason and need help and support.

 

[rynnor]

Your opening post isn't funny or clever, it is cruel and makes assumptions you have no business making.

I disagree - by the arguements some doctors make you'd think it was impossible for a human to starve to death.

If you think that a human can stay alive weighing 22 stone on 4-500 kcal diet and not lose energy from their system then I think your wrong.

You have cherry picked extreme cases in a desperate attempt to win the arguement but such desperation merely reveals the weakness of your case.

 

[taB]

 

[old.Tohtori]

That'll be because Tohtori hasn't peered in yet.

Look at how the thread is, haven't i?

Mwaha....mwahahaha....MWAHAHAHAHAHAAA!

*cough*

I'm obsolete in argument starting these days

Anyhoo, fat people in other countries don't phase me one way or other, neither do people who get benefits for weird sh*t. It's not effecting me so, you go girl..err...boy. About insulin, it works both ways, sometimes can gain weight, sometimes diabetes in itself can make you lose a lot of weight. All individual, but the point in it is a fact that it does effect your metabolism.

Ofcourse it's type 2, so not as drastic as type 1, but again, down to individuals.

 

[ford prefect]

I disagree - by the arguements some doctors make you'd think it was impossible for a human to starve to death.

If you think that a human can stay alive weighing 22 stone on 4-500 kcal diet and not lose energy from their system then I think your wrong.

You have cherry picked extreme cases in a desperate attempt to win the arguement but such desperation merely reveals the weakness of your case.

You are missing the point and not answering the question - do you think think ridiculing someone who is overweight is in anyway helpful or even ok? That is my argument, if you think it is weak please tell me why we should all be doing the same!

I haven't cherry picked anything, I am merely making the point that there are alternate possibilities.

 

[andeh]

You are missing the point and not answering the question - do you think think ridiculing someone who is overweight is in anyway helpful or even ok? That is my argument, if you think it is weak please tell me why we should all be doing the same!

I haven't cherry picked anything, I am merely making the point that there are alternate possibilities.

It would be perfectly plausible to argue the stigma of obesity to be one of the main drivers behind people not only attempting to lose weight, but also maintaining a 'healthy' weight in general.
'Softening' the generic stance on obesity (as you seem to advocate) just paves the way for it to be ultimately accepted as 'normal' or at least recognised as a legitimate illness (as opposed to, the self inflicted issue it really is - for the most part).

 

[ford prefect]

It would be perfectly plausible to argue the stigma of obesity to be one of the main drivers behind people not only attempting to lose weight, but also maintaining a 'healthy' weight in general.
'Softening' the generic stance on obesity (as you seem to advocate) just paves the way for it to be ultimately accepted as 'normal' or at least recognised as a legitimate illness (as opposed to, the self inflicted issue it really is - for the most part).

The stigma itself has severe consequences for emotional and physical wellbeing. This kind of discrimination causes social isolation, further unhealthy eating disorders, depression, lower levels of physical activity, poorer self image and even suicidal thoughts.

Stigmatizing people is never a solution, it is never a positive thing, and no it isn’t a plausible argument that it will encourage or help people, the exact opposite is all to often true, and often with very tragic consequences.

 

[andeh]

The stigma itself has severe consequences for emotional and physical wellbeing. This kind of discrimination causes social isolation, further unhealthy eating disorders, depression, lower levels of physical activity, poorer self image and even suicidal thoughts.

Stigmatizing people is never a solution, it is never a positive thing, and no it isn’t a plausible argument that it will encourage or help people, the exact opposite is all to often true, and often with very tragic consequences.

I stated the stigma of obesity may act as a deterrent to some. You reply detailing how obese people suffer as a result of their self inflicted condition.

The argument is not without flaw, however just consider the numbers of people dieting (or just eating 'properly'). The rationale for which will no doubt be varied, but more than likely dominated by health and aesthetics.
How do you suppose the stigma of obesity impacts upon our perceptions of what is aesthetically pleasing?
I'd suggest it's rather important in this regard.

 

[ford prefect]

Historically obesity has been a sign of power, wealth and fertility. In fact it is only relatively recently that society has come to view it as a negative.

As I have pointed out, obesity can have complex physical or psychological causes, yet the prevailing assumption always seems to be that it is self inflicted. Frankly I can't see any merit in either that assumption or the argument that to stigmatise someone or a group of people is somehow for their own good.

And why precisely should everyone be aesthetically pleasing? The assumption that it has to do with health is simply media hype

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Historically obesity has been a sign of power, wealth and fertility. In fact it is only relatively recently that society has come to view it as a negative.

And why precisely should everyone be aesthetically pleasing? The assumption that it has to do with health is simply media hype

It's nothing to do with aesthetics. It's to do with health. Hence the change you mentioned first of all. Apparently encouraging healthy living and weight is just "hype"? Mental.

 

[rynnor]

The assumption that it has to do with health is simply media hype

You seem to have come full circle now - from arguing he had no responsibility for his weight because it was a medical condition and now arguing that it isnt a health issue - seems a little confused?

 

[rynnor]

Frankly I can't see any merit in either that assumption or the argument that to stigmatise someone or a group of people is somehow for their own good.

I think theres a decent counter arguement that some things are fundamentally undesirable. Thats not stigmatising anyone but stating a basic fact.

If we have a health campaign against teenage STD's do we stop because we are worried we might stigmatise teenagers or do we state the medical fact that these things are unhealthy and can lead to nasty complications?

I think you can take political correctness too far and this is one of those situations.

 

[TdC]

Historically obesity has been a sign of power, wealth and fertility.

wasn't that back in the day when people got gout and died?

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Yes, and life expectancy was late 40s.

 

[andeh]

Historically obesity has been a sign of power, wealth and fertility. In fact it is only relatively recently that society has come to view it as a negative.

As I have pointed out, obesity can have complex physical or psychological causes, yet the prevailing assumption always seems to be that it is self inflicted. Frankly I can't see any merit in either that assumption or the argument that to stigmatise someone or a group of people is somehow for their own good.

And why precisely should everyone be aesthetically pleasing? The assumption that it has to do with health is simply media hype

The historical perception of obesity has little to do with the present. If someone calls you a fat fucker, you can hardly offer "hey 100 years ago this look was in" as a serious retort.

Can have, not has. The physical causes are no doubt legitimate, however, a fair amount of the supposed psychological causes will simply be crutches, clung to in a futile attempt to deflect the blame elsewhere. To stigamatise a group is not necessarily for the good of that particular group, rather for the good of the populace as a whole.

I never stated everyone should be aesthetically pleasing, rather that it is the desire of many to be so (albeit heavily influenced by the media/fashion industry etc).

 

[ford prefect]

You seem to have come full circle now - from arguing he had no responsibility for his weight because it was a medical condition and now arguing that it isnt a health issue - seems a little confused?

I was generalising, not talking about the specific chap. I would think that much was obvious.

 

[ford prefect]

I think theres a decent counter arguement that some things are fundamentally undesirable. Thats not stigmatising anyone but stating a basic fact.

If we have a health campaign against teenage STD's do we stop because we are worried we might stigmatise teenagers or do we state the medical fact that these things are unhealthy and can lead to nasty complications?

I think you can take political correctness too far and this is one of those situations.

Oh right I see.along jokes about teenagers with STD's would be a deterrent and would save lives. Hmm yeah, if you say so.

I am not really sure that answered my question either.

 

[ford prefect]

The historical perception of obesity has little to do with the present. If someone calls you a fat fucker, you can hardly offer "hey 100 years ago this look was in" as a serious retort.

Can have, not has. The physical causes are no doubt legitimate, however, a fair amount of the supposed psychological causes will simply be crutches, clung to in a futile attempt to deflect the blame elsewhere. To stigamatise a group is not necessarily for the good of that particular group, rather for the good of the populace as a whole.

I never stated everyone should be aesthetically pleasing, rather that it is the desire of many to be so (albeit heavily influenced by the media/fashion industry etc).

You said it should be a consideration on this debate. Your comment suggested that someone who is obese has a responsibility to society at large to loose weight or that they should be seen as something less by society because they don't conform.

So you are actually saying that stigmatising specific groups of people based on physical characteristics somehow improves society, regardless or the consequences to the group involved? How pleasant.

 

[rynnor]

Oh right I see.along jokes about teenagers with STD's would be a deterrent and would save lives. Hmm yeah, if you say so.

I am not really sure that answered my question either.

You had a question rather than a load of liberal bleating?

I havent stigmatised anyone except in your head - I posed some questions about a specific case then you got on a high horse and made the arguement that because a small percentage might be fat largely due to a medical complaint that no-one should say obesity wasnt a desired state.

If you think you can tackle an obesity epidemic by telling everyone its not their fault, its a medical problem then I am shocked - or would be if it wasnt you making such a specious arguement.