No more sorcerers after patch 1.52

[Flimgoblin]

My wannabe-body-spec sorc will only be reasonably specced in body after lvl 40

I like the pets too much

 

[old.yaruar]

Originally posted by Quemine
Remove cc completely... give all cc classes stealth, weapon spec, dd and unlimited skill points... that way no one will ever whine about cc again...

Or just make then level a tank and see how pointless we are in RvR at the moment ;-)

As has been said, mezz is the thing that wins a battle 90 percent of the time unless you totally outnumber your opponent.

I really don't understand this whining. Classes can AoE mezz an entire army and they classes can unmezz 1 ever 3 seconds? How does that gimp mezz?

Surely it just adds another tactical level. Mezzers will now have to both mezz the opposition and also be ready to pick out people to de-mezz to protect them and rush the opposition mezzer.....

And complaining you can't solo tanks... You're not supposed to be able to solo tanks, this is on the whole a team game where different classes fulfill different roles. There is no uber class which can do anything, although at the moment some have more uberness than others. Quit your whining and work out how to play your class. And if you picked that class becasue of their uberness on the battlefield alone then you are one sad puppy. Surely the key is choosing a class you enjoy playing, not just pickening the one that will be the most uber.....

 

[kr0n]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
Scenario 1.48:

Sorc running with group in Emain, pops over hill and suddenly find themselves facing a group of Midgardians in prepared positions. The Albions try to scatter, but the healer gets an AE mezz off. Mezzing everyone but the sorc and minstrel. Sorc turns and flee's, because there's nothing he can do for his tanks and standing still to cast mezz means that skald is going to catch him and "do him in". The minstrel sees the skald closing along with some tanks. He switch from his drums to flute, mezz's the skald while he uses his run-pulse to move away. He then stuns and mezzes another two tanks and then hightails it after the sorc.

Both the Minstrel and Sorc then proceed to run back to their PK and wait for the others to /release.

Scenario 1.52D:

Sorc running with group in Emain, using Sorc speed, as Minstrel is shadowing the group from a distance. They pop over the hill and are suddenly confronted by a group of Midgardians in prepared positions. The Albions try to scatter, a warning goes out to the Minstrel, who starts a flank attack. All the Albions are mezzed except for the Sorc, who fires off an AE mezz as well, catching 80% of Midgardians. The skald is still free though, as is the healer. Suddenly, from the flank comes the screams of a maniacal minstrel, he storms in, stuns, then mezzes the healer, while the sorc roots the skald, then mezz's him. Then, as fast as possible. The Minstrel and Sorc de-mezz the group (who DO NOT BREAK MEZZ TILL EVERYONE IS READY ) and proceed to smack the little dwarf healer upside the head and then work their way around the group of Midgards who are now /y /y /y /y /y /y.

Now, you tell me. Which sounds more fun?



-G

[EDIT: I did not make use of the PURGE command, as I didn't want to make the scenario more complicated...but purge can be dealt with by root.]

Alternate route to Scenario 1.52D.
Skald and healer who are still free do some magick. Healer instastun mezzes sorc. Minstrel comes storming in but skald sees him now cause sorc was mezzed and no one else moving around. Skald hits instamez and healer stats poppin mids free. /release

 

[old.Takahome]

Ae root + AE mez, strong dd on a body type dmg (one of the best type, V V few ppl got resistance against it), 220 in 2.8 sec if I recall well. Green pet, 200 radius mez with 24 mez, high ae root (yes it is useful), 2300 range amnesia (not as good as nearsight, but quite ok to save ya ass some times), insta (after patch) debuffs with ae versions (hope someday they will be useful, but it´s insta, why refuse to use it while u have enemy ROOTed?)

Spec 45 body and forget 34 mind, that´s IMO most of the sorcs will do (my baby sorc too if mythic keep nerfing mez, but hell mez is too powerful now)

Why whine as a sorc when mr healer will have a nice day doing nothing beside support just as much as mr bard. Sure others can heal rez and so, but can they DO dmg? Can they have a caster pet? U can debuff instead of buff, and I really wanna know veeshan´s spec

Sorcs drops faster that´s indeed bad, bard drops first that´s the truth, make a saracen sorc, or a briton sorc, till u cast, nobody will notice ya, while bard... well... instrument... kill that guy with instrument! That´s sooo easy to c, beside, NO mentalist will spec high enough (28) in mentalism to have a de mez SINGLE target, so hib got basicly 1 class to de mez, while u have few sorcs, u have MORE minstrels, and their mez´s short, but one of the best to use coz they can move, now albs already got 24523523 infils and 23435345 minstrels rolling.

Well tbh, bards became V powerful with insta mez they got, ranged ae insta is far too powerful in hands of a bard, but anyway, mythic´s trying to nerf any kind of CC, hib´s stun is too affected and that´s wot our most population (well we sure got pretty lots of casters)´s bread and butter, whine? Nothing u can do with it, play smart and pray that tank burn his purge be4 face ya (in case of sorc, root or mez, in case of hibs... well run...)

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by kr0n

Alternate route...

That's just it isn't it? It's not cut and dried anymore. It's all down to mezzing the other mezzer now before the other mezzer can demezz the mezzed non-mezzers who will then gank your mezzer before you can be demezzed to kill their mezzer.

I think it adds WAY more flavour to the game. In the end, it's going to come down to the fact that Albion's main mezzer looks just like any other caster, while Bard's are ID'd a mile away and healers are about the only Midgard class to wear small shields. The only REAL change, is that people who relied on NOT being mezzed to actually take part in RvR, now have some small chance. Hell, I'll make a sorc myself oneday, don't really see an issue with this. I'm just wonderring why you're all complaining now, and not about Purge... Hell, forget mezz, when you AE mezz a bunch of trolls tanks running at you and they all purge...kiss your furry little butt goodbye. (Notice, I said FURRY LITTLE BUTT and not FAT ASS... ).



-G

 

[old.chesnor]

Any Middy Healer tearing around the frontiers with a small shield deserves to die

 

[kr0n]

Then again, if there are still some hibs/mids (could be loads hibs cause they suck anyways) who dont know Layl is a sorc, should just delete emselves for ignorancy. "You target [Layl]" "OMG OMG SORC KEEL ONESHOT WHATEVER"

 

[Yussef]

Mez is a tank's worst enemy, how about giving the hybrid tanks de-mez? Could be cool.

 

[old.Breydel]

Mess indeed isn't fun. I wish every form of CC just didn't work in RvR. Same as with confuse which also is for PvE and useless in RvR. But, I know there are classes that are heavily dependent on mes & other sleep spells (healer, sorceress, bard). Of course some compensation should be made for them.

I find it rather pathetic how Mythic lately is already fixing broken issues. Instead of altering the very basics about mes & CC they just add a de-mess spell, duh. And instead of fixing the basis of the See Hidden problem they just add Camouflage thing. And instead of increasing base run speed a bit they add these lame NPC "speeders" in the frontier. On the good side though, they added new keeps and removing the level based "to hit" modifiers is awesome.

I got a feeling 1.52D as it is now on Pendragon is nowhere yet to what it'll be on live servers. There are a lot of complaints about the armor resistance bonusses, camouflage and de-mess that Mythic isn't taking on the basic problem of issues but try to give us some of these "quick-fixes". When the base of something is broken, adding such quickfixes isn't going to help longterm.

Ooh well, if I don't like it anymore... I saw some awesome screenshots from the new Facing Worlds from UT2003. Can't wait to buy that game once its out.

 

[kr0n]

FS. You have ANY idea what kinda RvR would be if there wasnt any kind of CC? The one who brings more people wins! TADA! That fun? Especially not fun for hibbies on pryd.

 

[old.Breydel]

FS. You have ANY idea what kinda RvR would be if there wasnt any kind of CC? The one who brings more people wins! TADA! That fun? Especially not fun for hibbies on pryd.

LOL, what is wrong with that? What do you find most fun or most normal? That 30 people can beat 10 people without sleep spells or that 10 people can manage to kill 30 people with sleep spells? I much rather loose a battle because the enemy is zerging than that I loose to a small group who managed to pin me down to the ground.

I have been playing the endgame RvR for over a month daily now and basically it comes down to whoever manages to mes the enemy first wins the battle. How freakin' lame is that? It's not that eldie that is nuking for 500 dmg every 3 secs, it's not that spearo that brings the outcome of the battle. When our bard has messed the enemy we are victorious.

 

[old.Breydel]

Brannor,

In your well thought out example, how would you think the battle would fair is no mess was in the game? I'm sure it'll be one helluva fight too.

 

[kr0n]

IMO thats just plain stupid. I mean, then this would be CS with 3rd person view and better gameplay! How freakin stupid is that. I understand using no CC if even battle, but as you said, takin 30 people with 10 people makes the 10 people VERY good. Ive been on the brink of quitting several times and those things just kept me goin, gettin the good fealin' of stoppin zergin mids and pickim em off. As a warden you just sit and watch people keel people. Must be fun.

All the tanks whining that they cant do jack shit in RvR. What Ive seen tanks bloody good there.
1st. They server as cannon fodder, buying time for the killers
2nd. When they get close, and they DO get close, they beat the shit outta people. Most tanks seem to think they suck 'cause they act as brainless twats rushing in one small grp towards enemies and gettin mezzed. B00.

RvR is supposed to be about skills, avoiding mez is one of them. Sure there are situations where there aint possibilities to avoid one, EG gettin surprised, keep attack etc. But its just the way cookie crumbles.

What would Starcraft be if you could only build one type of unit and the one bringing more units to other ones base wins? That would be boring as hell.

 

[old.Toirdhealbhach]

I have but one thing to say to you, Breydel: "Use tactics"

 

[old.Breydel]

takin 30 people with 10 people makes the 10 people VERY good

Lol, you don't freakin get it do you? In that example of the 10 people there is 1 VERY good player, the messer. The other 9 just help clearing up the fight after that then. When 2 groups meet each other in RvR, the battle is decided by the very first 5 seconds, whoever manages to mess the others first wins. That is not gameplay, that is boring. But I'm not going to argue anymore, you obviously got way too hooked up playing your sorc with your 'best damn AE mezz on the server'. Enjoy playing him because mes WILL be nerfed.

Like I said, I would be thrilled that mess is gone, then we get some real battles going in the frontiers. But Mythic is prolly way too lazy to redesign sorcs, healers and bards because they will be left with some unfinished skill trees.

DAoC without mes = CS? LMAO! Honestly I don't think you played both games well enough.

As a warden you just sit and watch people keel people. Must be fun.

LOL, I missed the link between the discussion here and the class that I play, please fill me in where we were discussing wardens. Funny statement though, makes you look like a real idiot that knows jack about the class.

I'm not even going to bother quoting the tank comment. I suggest you first play a tank and then talk about them because you obviously have no clue about them either.

RvR is supposed to be about skills, avoiding mez is one of them.

LMAO! I got 50+ spirit resistance, I think that is close to the best thing I can do to avoid mes. Or what else to you suggest? Turn 180 degrees and hit my sprint button? LOL.

What would Starcraft be if you could only build one type of unit and the one bringing more units to other ones base wins? That would be boring as hell.

LOL, please tell me you are joking here. Removing mes from DAoC being the same as Starcraft with 1 unit? LMAO. Man, I seriously think you should stop playing your sorc for a while. Start a fighter, a stealther, a healer, whatever... I don't care. Take a look around and see what else DAoC has to offer.
You honestly are the most blinded sorc I have ever met. On other forums sorcs at least admit mes is lame and should be removed (with some major conpensation for the mes classes of course).

I have but one thing to say to you, Breydel: "Use tactics"

I know, tactics are fun. Mes is holding people from using tactics. Group meets enemy group. Messer messes enemies. Group kills off people one by one, starting with the cloth classes. Repeat over and over and over again. Tactics you say? LMAO.

 

[old.Kladen]

you know how its like to be a mezzed tank and watch you caster friends get picked off while you jsut stand there waiting for death? it maybe fun for the few people who can mezz and kill them but what about the more people who get killed i dont think its fun for them.

unmezz will just add more tactics as it is not a aoe spell, so sorcs just cant run mezz,mezz,mezz instead they will try mezzing the unmezzers and it would be more fun.

i dont expect 1 bard to unmezz 15 different people in one go.

stop whining please, stop thinking of yourselves and think about the other people who get mezzed

tanks will STILL get mezzed but now they have hope of being free, before they knew they had to wait for 1 minute or some idiot to hit em.

 

[old.Toirdhealbhach]

Breydel,
Suffice to say, you're a fool if you don't recognize the meaning of crowd control in a game without collision detection. I'm not interested to go deeper into this debate, because your opinions are obviously already set and will not change, and are very uninteresting. Take care.

 

[old.Breydel]

Well, the feeling is mutual. See ya.

 

[old.linnet]

resists

Actually, not many people seem to have registered this, but the sorcerer mez is NOT spirit type (spirit resist won't help reduce its duration ...) In fact, it's not even the same type as the minstrel me (also not on spirit )

But hey, after spellcrafting goes in, I guess everyone will be able to max out any resist they like in any case.


Lin

(Liking her new future role as ninja demezzer...)

 

[Solid]

Sorc mez is and always has been energy type.

Until recently Healer mez had no resist type associated and has now (in US anyway) been set to Energy type ALSO.

Minstrels, Clerics, SM, Bard, dunno what Mez type they have, but I would postulate (rah super word) that they are also energy.

Last 3 days I have been loving RvR and I have been in a small group of 4-5 that has been running round emain wreaking havoc.

We relyed mostly on just the Skald mez of Stormsteel mostly and have been kicking ass.

We actually use tactics, let the skald mez, and let him pick target, and we all attack same person, we stay far enuff apart so we cant all eb AoE Mezzed in one go and so at least one tank is always free.

Made 9000rp in 2 nites this way, as a Thane in a smallish group on a rather underpopulated server I felt a sense of accomplishment and am really enjoying it.

Yes Mez is a pain in the arse esp with Sorcs effectively having an insta AoE mez, the only damn class in the game that can (Quickcast + AoE Mez == Insta AoE Mezz)

In no way will what Mythic propose with de-mez take away the power of CC, how many peeps does anyone thinkg they can demez if its a single target 3sec cast spell? Not many.

What they should do is reduce the time a mez lasts in RvR only, thus reducing the site of hoards of players standing twiddling their thumbs for up to 120 seconds whilst they wait for mez to wear off or be jumped by 4-5 nme players at the same time.

 

[kr0n]

Solid afaik the minstrel mez is Body, as in Skalds.

Breydel...

Cmon whatta fuck is the fun in zerging with more people than the other, they basically dont have any chance. If this was the RvR in DAoC Id quit this minute.

Theres plenty of ways to avoid mez. Mids have learnt it well and now dont attack in a one big grp but rather spread out.

Try thinking about the Starcraft example for a minute.

Basically the only way to win in that type of game is to build more units than the other one. Now without any sort of CC in DAoC, this would be the thing in here too, not calculating the overpowered classes or balance between em. It would all come to the one who has more people wins. And how stupid is thats? Wheres the fuckin tactic in that youre saying?
I just cant see any idea in that. Can you really say you like gettin zerged down by 100 albs just 'cause your bard wasnt able to mez? Youre even more stupid than you sound like really.

Just for the record
Ive played CS for about a week. Only thing in there what amused me was just runnin around pissing people off with Aims.

Played alts, clerics, scouts, infs, SBs...

 

[old.Toirdhealbhach]

Solid,
Making an absolute cut in mezz durations might be a bit bad idea. Instead, I'd like to see a system where a check is made every n seconds you're mezzed (based on resistances) to see if you manage to break free before actual duration has elapsed. Such mechanic would bring an important random pattern to the game, and would in most cases work benefically towards lessening tank frustration (although I agree with Layl - most mezzes can be avoided). Merely cutting down the mezz length would lead to very uninteresting battles, and the cut would have to be very radical to avoid current problems (max duration 10 seconds or so).

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Yes Mez is a pain in the arse esp with Sorcs effectively having an insta AoE mez, the only damn class in the game that can (Quickcast + AoE Mez == Insta AoE Mezz)

Solid

Spirit Masters have 2 second pbae (ie targetless) mez and quickcast too. Watch backstabbers fall to us if they don't manage to oneshot us

Don't know if the sorc one is point blank though, would be interested if any can tell?

 

[old.Alliandre]

don't think the sorceror mezz is pbaoe

 

[Loth]

No, it's a targetted ranged AoE

 

[Jaas Mallai]

CALM DOWN

sheesh,

I move house, have no connectivity (apart from @ work, so no DAoC for me ), and theres loadsa saucy (sorcy) threads.

Sorcerers, from what i can see, have it the hardest of all main CC classes in the game. Why? It all comes down to survivability, as a Sorc our survivability is the worst out of all 3 (no, I don't have experience as the others, but for me it is plain to see, but do tell me if you think otherwise ), we have the worst armour, we are the only mage primary CC class in the game, ergo we die the quickest.

Also upcoming changes means that (I think I'm right here, if not I'm sure someone will correct me) the other 2 realms (spit) primary CC classes, get instant CC too.

Also, our spec DD just got changed from spirit to energy (in euro), which means no more bonus dmg on the undead, but bonus dmg on chain (this means bonus on most mids). This mistake has been changed in the US, now our spec DD is body type, just like our spec DD. This means that any body resists will now affect both our DD spells.

Debuffs, making these insta will make a difference in RvR? No way, they are next to useless in RvR insta or otherwise, and are useful in PvE.

Confuse and Amnesia in RvR practically useless.

I love my sorcerer, and I have the most fun dieing, erm XPing with my mates.

I don;t do too bad in RvR too BUT it is comparison with the other primary CC classes that we really do seem to hurt badly.

I do feel for the ppl that get mezzed, it is not nice being mezzed out of the game for 20 secs only to watch your realm mates slowly get picked off one by one. All I ask is to be comaparable to the other 2 realms (spit) CC classes.

Agree or not it is my 2 pennies worth.

Lunar I feel your pain I really do.

Brannor, tut tut, stop baiting a sorcereress in pain.

Drink up the world is about to end!

DID YOU BREAK MY MEZ, WAS IT YOU? WAS IT? SARUMMMMM? RUUMBLE? (love ya really guys!)

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

In case we're straying slightly, remember that the clear mez abilities only change the way mez will have to be applied and reapplied on the battlefield, not make it useless or non-viable.

Mez has not been removed as a weapon, its been made less of an army destroyer. Even though Mez is my main weapon on the battlefield, I still think this is a good thing.

As for pointing out a range of abilities that provide little or no use in RvR, well we SMs know more about that than most

 

[old.Iunliten]

Hey guys how many of you work as proffesional fortune tellers?

One thing I always wondered though is why AE mezz do not lessen further from the radius as the AE damage.