Nice One Hibs -.-

[Muppet]

Ive almost forgotten what the argument is about.

As I read it, Mul and certain others object to people reqesting that they:

Not take relics early in the morning
Leave the relic situation as it is
Not to kill soloers
Not to run over duelers
Not to zerg around bridges

Mul and others enjoy the opposite of the above.

Mul, in a nutshell is that it?

define "certain others" please

 

[Cromcruaich]

define "certain others" please

I could, but its easier for me just to say ignore 'certain others', so, ignore certain others, pretend it isn't there. Consider the question directed straight at Mul, and mul alone. For the sake of brevity, and a quite life for me.

 

[Muylaetrix]

Not take relics early in the morning

it`s a 24/7 game

Leave the relic situation as it is

boring, all the anger over the `injustice` created very nice ingame condititions with a lot of superb actions. relics are meant to change hands, preferably often.

Not to kill soloers

it`s a hard life soloing i guess...

Not to run over duelers

i try to wait till they finish and then mop up the remains. not always as easy to say what is a duel and what not. do you consider a BB who runs out of cover to go rezz someone and gets jumped by a stealher a duel ??? i don`t.
is the cleric who wants to take a boat and gets pa`d in a duel ??? i don`t think so.

a 1 vs 1 is not the same as a duel where 2 people are actively trying to get in a fight with comparable opponents. an SB who jumps a reaver, both looking for a fight, i`ll condsider a duel and let em finish, if my evaluation of the situation is correct

Not to zerg around bridges

are there rules now about where one is allowed to zerg and where not ? few things are as much fun as camping a bridge in an enemie realm where the opponts who die can just release and hurry back to the action, or kicking enemy bridge campers in your own realm out..

campign your own bridges with zergs if there is no irvr is kinda... stupid and not much action.

 

[Cromcruaich]

it`s a 24/7 game



boring, all the anger over the `injustice` created very nice ingame condititions with a lot of superb actions. relics are meant to change hands, preferably often.



it`s a hard life soloing i guess...



i try to wait till they finish and then mop up the remains. not always as easy to say what is a duel and what not. do you consider a BB who runs out of cover to go rezz someone and gets jumped by a stealher a duel ??? i don`t.
is the cleric who wants to take a boat and gets pa`d in a duel ??? i don`t think so.

a 1 vs 1 is not the same as a duel where 2 people are actively trying to get in a fight with comparable opponents. an SB who jumps a reaver, both looking for a fight, i`ll condsider a duel and let em finish, if my evaluation of the situation is correct



are there rules now about where one is allowed to zerg and where not ? few things are as much fun as camping a bridge in an enemie realm where the opponts who die can just release and hurry back to the action, or kicking enemy bridge campers in your own realm out..

campign your own bridges with zergs if there is no irvr is kinda... stupid and not much action.

Just finding your boundaries. I couldnt careless if you zerg around bridges.

To be honest, sounds like you dont mind leaving soloers who are 1v1. I think thats pretty cool.

Shame about the 24/7 point, looks like you are unable to see why it is detrimental to the game. Have you thought about getting together some loose groups and taking stuff at a time we can all enjoy? Actually having said that you were on a tower lastnight in hib, so good to see you out there.

Amazingly I agree with you're bridge camping comment, it can be great fun. I run in a fixed group, I solo, I camp bridges, I camp choke points, I run in small pugs, I run in full pugs, I run with the zerg. I dont add on 1v1, unless I have a grudge against one of the parties, I dont add on 8v8 in where I know the fg's go for scraps (unless adders).

I dont expect that you do the same stuff, but to me, of all of those, respecting 1v1's is the one that matters (even though i'm not a tank 1v1 and not withstanding early morning relic raids which you seem immoveable on). The rest I think most people can say, 'well fair enough, whatever turns you on'.

Though never forget, variety is the spice of life, and there are quite a few pugs out at the moment if you ever felt like testing you're guild against them.

Finally, aologies for Mul, its Muyl. Sowee.

 

[Cromcruaich]

Muyl, we could try an experiment. You could argue about why its early morning relic raids arn't good for the server, I could try and argue why they are.

How about it?

 

[Sharkith]

Reality check :touch:

why would I need that? What is amazing is that Shike posts something that has real passion - 'real' passion and all he gets in response is a failure to debate on his posts. All you did for example was deny that he feels as passionate as he does. Now you tell me who needs the reality check?

As for Muylaetrix - you have good points to make but you just haven't put them together into a cohesive argument. What I think you are afraid of is finding out that after all you might almost agree with Shike on most points..... What I am arguing for is that you at least show the courtesy to justify your claims - all you have done is make counter claims without any form of justification. I hope I am being clear here.

 

[Muppet]

why would I need that? What is amazing is that Shike posts something that has real passion - 'real' passion and all he gets in response is a failure to debate on his posts. All you did for example was deny that he feels as passionate as he does. Now you tell me who needs the reality check?

from you is the equivalent of a damp squib. So show people a bit of respect

Again, I did underline it for you, but Ill put it up.
In this you refer muyl to a damp firecracker......and then you ask him to show respect

I dont think its respectfull to call anyone that, let alone not even bothering explaining him what it really means when he asks.

As for ignoring shikes post you and shike were refering to, I quote posts I respond to, if your post isnt quoted Im not talking or refering to that post or anything in it.

 

[Shike]

Could you please point out what you exactly mean? did you mean I didnt read the post(s) you made before the one I quoted or which one are you refering to?

check my previous posts in this thread, then check the posts in the thread: Ok why? . Touches the same subject really and I try my best to explain my PoV, dunno if its hard to get or something but read em if you got the time.

 

[Sharkith]

Again, I did underline it for you, but Ill put it up.
In this you refer muyl to a damp firecracker......and then you ask him to show respect

I dont think its respectfull to call anyone that, let alone not even bothering explaining him what it really means when he asks.

As for ignoring shikes post you and shike were refering to, I quote posts I respond to, if your post isnt quoted Im not talking or refering to that post or anything in it.

If you read it again you will see I referred to his post and I didn't call him anything. Muylaetrix has some good points in the making I kind of think they are much better put in a more constructive format. If you cannot see that I have respect for him then there is something wrong with the way your reading my responses.

As for your point what I was referring to was your dismissive attitude in the following quotation:

a) stay polite.
b) stop the constant whining over the fact that people will violate other peoples PERSONAL code.
c) Don`t do anything against the rules given by GOA and MYTHIC.

that`s mandatory imho.

having you own `code` is not wrong, but forcing other people to play according to it is selfish and absurd imho.

Agreed and hopefully people will finally pick this up soon, cause I think some people need to go out in real life more often en actually experience whats it like there

Can you see a dismissive attitude in this because that is what I see? To put it to you directly I think that through your response to Muylaetrix your dismissing that Shike feels 'real' passion about his game and that is what I was reacting to. So what is the claim your trying to make to counter Shikes argument?

That we should all live in the real world or some variation on that theme?

In which case I don't get it? It sounds like someone is stating the obvious and misses the point that Shike was making about what it means to play the game from his perspective....

 

[Muppet]

If you read it again you will see I referred to his post and I didn't call him anything. Muylaetrix has some good points in the making I kind of think they are much better put in a more constructive format. If you cannot see that I have respect for him then there is something wrong with the way your reading my responses.

You refered in that part that muyl post was referable to a damp squib, I would personally find that offensive, its his opinion so let him have his opinion.

As for your point what I was referring to was your dismissive attitude in the following quotation:



Can you see a dismissive attitude in this because that is what I see? To put it to you directly I think that through your response to Muylaetrix your dismissing that Shike feels 'real' passion about his game and that is what I was reacting to. So what is the claim your trying to make to counter Shikes argument?

as I posted in my previous post, I quote what I respond to, I quoted that part of muyl's post because I agreed to what HE posted there (in the quotation window) and what I posted had nothing to do what shike post before that. If you think that I did, I can tell you now that I didnt.

That we should all live in the real world or some variation on that theme?
In which case I don't get it? It sounds like someone is stating the obvious and misses the point that Shike was making about what it means to play the game from his perspective....

again I wasnt replying to shikes post, can we please move on yes? If I replied to him I wouldve quoted his post.

 

[Sharkith]

Muppet,

its ok to clear up the points and defer the responsibility to Muly after all he is more than able to answer for himself but that leaves me with a quandry - just what is your contribution to the discussion other than agreeing with him and making a general trolling remark about the 'real' world?

Of course I can move on - so where do you want to take the discussion? What point would you like to make?

At the moment your contribution to the discussion escapes me.

Sharkith

 

[Muppet]

check my previous posts in this thread, then check the posts in the thread: Ok why? . Touches the same subject really and I try my best to explain my PoV, dunno if its hard to get or something but read em if you got the time.

ok, Ill read it now and respond to it then. I do apologize for not reading ALL the 10/11 pages of posts.

Doubt that will happen, since certain ppl just have been waiting for something like this, a reason to go on with their retarded behaviour ruining the balance for loads of people with nightraids. Now you see the asshats grasping for exactly that thin thread by saying, Now we will AC it back, as if it was honourably taken in the first place, as if it was theirs to begin with. As if they werent the loosers they actually are.

Personally, I dislike nightraids myself. But its a game everyone is free to do what they like to do, as long as they payed their subs. There is no hardcoded rule that states you cannot raid at night.
And yes, I really do dislike it, because as happend on FH when the relic was AC-ed at first, albion as a realm was held responsible for it, while it was completely out of our hands.

As for AC-ing it back, I really dont mind if anyone does.

The fundamental problem is DAoC's design with a craptastic NF that actually allow alot of stupid things, nightrelicraids is just one problem with NF but since it affect so many players, its a hell of a discussion each time it happens. Thing is, this system works in the US, reason is simple, people there play all around the clock, there is _always_ people out RvRing in smaller or larger scale in US, they never allow iRvR there either since its a serious relicthreat to have a realm housing in ones own realm.

Ive seen a thread I think with a poll if the server should be mixed with US server, might be an idea, though I havent checked the outcome of that poll. Maybe its an idea if the largest part of the current cluster supports it.

Anyways, keep on whinging ppl, maybe things will improve and RvR on cluster will get better from it.

If its constructive (like this, although this isnt really whine), yea ok, but if its just another bitching thread, no thanks.

Face it, that bridgecampingbrigade aint going anywhere, since they are lazy ppl who just cant be arsed to even take a boat that take 5min tops, they cant be arsed to even look for ppl to group with and make a proper group with, they cant be arsed to do fucking anything at all but stand there like complete and utter idiots waiting for someone to pop so they can kill it. THAT attitude is what is killing the RvR on cluster more than anything.

Yeah, I usually solo or duo with my guildmate, but our guild consists of like 4 active peeps, so we cant make a fg, unless we join a pug, which seems to be mission impossible in albion (apart from some very few exceptions).
The bridge camping happens is probably a result of people logging in, checking the warmap, and seeing that theres action near beno, crim/crauch or somewhere else.

Like in most games alot of people want to get as much fun with the least effort and time and there are alot of ungratefull folks out there as well.
Some of em even think they are entitled to get everything done for them, as in ML xp, arti's and even gold/aurulite. Sad but true.

Making a full group and running it in RvR will take more time and effort, but can be more rewarding I totally agree.
Guild groups will have the advantage as you know people and have a sort of social check on everyone.

As for the bridge camping I wont deny alot of albs do it, but so do hibernians and so do midgard players.

Well, there I replied to your posts, hopefully that clears somethings and Im looking forward to more of these constructive posts!

 

[Muppet]

Muppet,

its ok to clear up the points and defer the responsibility to Muly after all he is more than able to answer for himself but that leaves me with a quandry - just what is your contribution to the discussion other than agreeing with him and making a general trolling remark about the 'real' world?

Of course I can move on - so where do you want to take the discussion? What point would you like to make?

At the moment your contribution to the discussion escapes me.

Sharkith

I mainly just highlighted the points made by muyl I agreed on, not everything he said.

with that there was also my own opinion posted which imho contributed to this post. Maybe you missed that.

As for the trolling remark..? I just pointed out that I didnt think it was very respectfull to demand respect from someone after basically just telling him his post was damp squib.

 

[Sharkith]

I just pointed out that I didnt think it was very respectfull to demand respect from someone after basically just telling him his post was damp squib.

if it was a normal conversation you would have a point but Muly knows from the pm's I have sent him here that I have a lot of respect for him as a person. A lot of others will know that I get frustrated when people post stuff in a way that goes nowhere and just leads to more frustration. I hope you can see I have a point.

What is most frustrating about it is that Muly has good points to make and it is worth while listening to them when they are expressed the wayhe can.

Sure he might not have had time to post it but surely that does not stop me from stating how it is seen? And like you said he can answer for himself.

Well, there I replied to your posts, hopefully that clears somethings and Im looking forward to more of these constructive posts!

tbh for me thats much better - FH needs more input from anyone who can be arsed as long as they try to bring something to the table.

On the current thread this frustration bubbles up here from time to time. The answer to it is not more whine nor is it more FG RvR - that is not the answer to all our woes by a long shot. I respect Muly and people like him when they go for towers and keeps and when they run in the zerg. They can be pretty effective.

What I don't respect is when we see people come here closed off from opening up the debate and trying to find a way to allow all forms of the game to be expressed. All we tend to get are

"fuck you is 24/7 game" versus "hey try to include people in the game" - now I am more on the side of the latter like you. But there are very few people actually posting on these forums that I know of that force others to play the way they want to. because they simply cannot.

I think it is a reflection of Alb that they can put together two FG's of people willing most nights to go after a NF objective thats a credit to Albion. Sadly the Hibs and Mids don't often do it and so partly what happens is the bridges become the focus of attention.

Shike hates the laziness of that. I share that perspective, I also find it very frustrating that people don't go and try to make more of the game. No-one tells them what to do but surely that does not mean we cannot express how frustrating it is when all you can find is people humping bridges? Surely we can speak out and 'say hey this sucks?'

On your problem of finding FG's why not try organising PUG's through these forums? One or two a week can be a welcome break from zerging maybe? As an Aside this is what some of our good people in NFD have been working on:

http://www.nafiannadragun.co.uk/pugorganizer/main.php

The idea being that you could plan a PUG in advance through that tool and then you can have the easy going FG thing when you want it. You can have the bridge camping if you cannot be arsed (we all do it btw) and you can have your zergs. What many of us are arguing here is for people to use more options.

I fail to see why suddenly we are the bad guys.... for simply expressing an opinon.



I can see however you don't mean it like that though so fair enough.

 

[Muppet]

if it was a normal conversation you would have a point but Muly knows from the pm's I have sent him here that I have a lot of respect for him as a person. A lot of others will know that I get frustrated when people post stuff in a way that goes nowhere and just leads to more frustration. I hope you can see I have a point.

Ok I didnt knew you pm-ed among each other. We all have moments of those frustration and I myself have those as well. I try to not reply on any of those posts that frustrate me, but you can ask my guildmates if I get frustrated about FH at times

tbh for me thats much better - FH needs more input from anyone who can be arsed as long as they try to bring something to the table.

On the current thread this frustration bubbles up here from time to time. The answer to it is not more whine nor is it more FG RvR - that is not the answer to all our woes by a long shot. I respect Muly and people like him when they go for towers and keeps and when they run in the zerg. They can be pretty effective.

What I don't respect is when we see people come here closed off from opening up the debate and trying to find a way to allow all forms of the game to be expressed. All we tend to get are

"fuck you is 24/7 game" versus "hey try to include people in the game" - now I am more on the side of the latter like you. But there are very few people actually posting on these forums that I know of that force others to play the way they want to. because they simply cannot.

I think it is a reflection of Alb that they can put together two FG's of people willing most nights to go after a NF objective thats a credit to Albion. Sadly the Hibs and Mids don't often do it and so partly what happens is the bridges become the focus of attention.

Shike hates the laziness of that. I share that perspective, I also find it very frustrating that people don't go and try to make more of the game. No-one tells them what to do but surely that does not mean we cannot express how frustrating it is when all you can find is people humping bridges? Surely we can speak out and 'say hey this sucks?'

On your problem of finding FG's why not try organising PUG's through these forums? One or two a week can be a welcome break from zerging maybe? As an Aside this is what some of our good people in NFD have been working on:

http://www.nafiannadragun.co.uk/pugorganizer/main.php

The idea being that you could plan a PUG in advance through that tool and then you can have the easy going FG thing when you want it. You can have the bridge camping if you cannot be arsed (we all do it btw) and you can have your zergs. What many of us are arguing here is for people to use more options.

I fail to see why suddenly we are the bad guys.... for simply expressing an opinon.



I can see however you don't mean it like that though so fair enough.

Yeah, getting a working solution for all players will be a very hard thing to accomplish. Although with constructive feedback players might come up with something in the end that will work in favour for all the players.

I just had a look at the site and that looks very nice and organised. Maybe I might be able to arrange something similar with some guildies and some people that want to come along.
We try to have a regular scout group, but you always run into the risk of people not actually showing up Last weekend, for instance, nearly noone showed up sadly. Still we had some fun taking some towers with just 4 scouts.

Glad we cleared it up btw, cheers

 

[Shike]

Hmm Muppet, since you guys are 4 in the guild, why dont you hook up with some guild in the same situation? (im not saying its a solution), im curious because I see people in dying guilds share same fate as the ones making the guild die (the people leaving the game). They usually get bored because of a lonesome /gu, nobody to group with, etc and end up logging on less and less until they also quit the game.

Im just curious

In the other matters, I dont really have so much to add tbh, would just be repeating myself. I dont like lazy people, I really dont, its one thing if one have very little time to play but when I see the same people camping the very same places day in and day out I really wonder what it is that moves inside the head of the people who do that. I try and see most players as an asset to the _game_ overall and its just.. frustrating atm. In US bridgebrigades has gone to silly levels the last years, they have rank11groups that made all their RPs from bridgecamping, put them in roaming RVR and they hardly even know how to mezz someone, its just really sad to see and well, atm UKcluster and Merlincluster for example isnt very different at all, we used to say that EU > US when it comes to RVRquality but nowadays I cant really honestly say that statement is true, its pretty much the same crap here aswell. A few groups roam around trying to find things to fight, rest is just busy staring at realmmates while waiting for ppl to zerg. Move to another realm and look for a fight just doesnt seem to exist in alot of peoples heads at all anymore unless there is iRVR going on and this is what I mean when I say that iRVR creates apathy in the longrun. iRVR nomatter how much RPs it gives isnt for the better for the server, on the contrary, its driving alot of people away. If RVR was good on cluster then people wouldnt be leaving so easily, 850 players online primetime is nothing, thats what Prydwen alone held for a long time before we got clustered. The game is dying because of its age and because of some designflaws aswell but its always the people on it that make it a good server or a bad server, atm bad is closer if I wanna label it and that aint exactly helping the population a single bit.

Guess I had alil to say after all.. and now its bedtime!

 

[Sharkith]

We try to have a regular scout group, but you always run into the risk of people not actually showing up Last weekend, for instance, nearly noone showed up sadly. Still we had some fun taking some towers with just 4 scouts.

Glad we cleared it up btw, cheers

thats the thing about fixed groups too but if you have stand ins and so on you can usually make it work. The PUG thing also suffers from people who have real life commitments. However its a game and real life comes first.

I dunno its just that some people feel there is something to be gained by putting effort in and seeking out other things. It is depressing when all we get or can forge in the game is to hang out on a bridge or run between an iRvR keep and another iRvR keep. It reduces the game and in the end will force people to leave because that all there is left.

TBH if there is a principal reason for a fall in population its the environment of RvR. Its not all the players fault of course and a fair proportion of them seem powerless to do anything else. Why people just don't reorganise and seek out the ability to do more strikes me as odd. I think Shike has a point there although I don't think I would adopt such an uncompromising attitude.

Although on the other side of thing - it is virtually impossible to get people to do anything else with a few notable expections.

Part of the issue is that a lot of the casual players actually have irregular times when they can play but my argument is then why don't they try arranging PUG nights of their own for example?

Sharky

p.s. we can always clear things up if people are willing to discuss things and thanks for taking the time!

 

[Muppet]

Hmm Muppet, since you guys are 4 in the guild, why dont you hook up with some guild in the same situation? (im not saying its a solution),
im curious because I see people in dying guilds share same fate as the ones making the guild die (the people leaving the game). They usually get bored because of a lonesome /gu, nobody to group with, etc and end up logging on less and less until they also quit the game.

The guild isnt really dead, its been like that quite some time. Finding another similar guild might be an option but I havent really ran into such a guild that would match the one Im in.
For RvR we usually run with 3 guys from guild and invite people we know (that arent in the guild) if they're online.
What saddens me a bit though is that other players from the alliance dont bother grouping up, apart from some exceptions.

Move to another realm and look for a fight just doesnt seem to exist in alot of peoples heads at all anymore unless there is iRVR going on and this is what I mean when I say that iRVR creates apathy in the longrun. iRVR nomatter how much RPs it gives isnt for the better for the server, on the contrary, its driving alot of people away. If RVR was good on cluster then people wouldnt be leaving so easily, 850 players online primetime is nothing, thats what Prydwen alone held for a long time before we got clustered. The game is dying because of its age and because of some designflaws aswell but its always the people on it that make it a good server or a bad server, atm bad is closer if I wanna label it and that aint exactly helping the population a single bit.

iRvR is I think an easy and quick way of getting started when you come back from work and "just do stuff in rvr". So basically simple and easy, thats a bit of a motto you see these days, which can be dreadfull.
That probably does mean that if something more interesting kicks in (like a new different MMO or other game) people will likely quit/leave/take a break to play this new game until their bored with the new game and then "maybe" come back.

Designflaws yes, sadly and I dont get the feeling mythic's really trying to fix that, although I could be totally wrong about that (lets hope so)

 

[Hawkwind]

if only i knew what a squib was :/

Its part of a fire extinguisher system. On Aircraft anyways. Use, 'the frogs in the forward cargo hold produced a large amount of CO2 which set the cargo hold squibs off'.

Although I think he may have meant squid.

On topic, have played FG RvR and Zerg RvR enjoyed both. As long as your enjoying it whose to say its wrong just becuase its different from your own playstyle.

Bit like religion, I don't mind people being religious but I hate having being preached to. Live and let live. The game is vast and can accomodate all playstyles. Only elitist pricks try to dictate to everyone how the game has to be played.

 

[Darzil]

A squib is a small explosive, a damp one is a small explosive that doesn't work.

Darzil