Next-gen consoles

[Sycho]

If i buy one, it will be xbox 360.

By the way chod, what about SLI dual 6800 ultras(new dual cpu versions coming) isn't that going to be fairly strong for pcs too?Oo

 

[cHodAX]

I'll not buy a X box out of princaple, its a PC with a built in OS, Microsoft makes good games like Halo that they don't release for the PC untill a year or so after.


I'll wait untill some of the games come out...which ever has the best rpgs i'll buy

Bubble, the X360 is in no way a PC bud. It uses IBM PPC processors and although it uses DirectX to run the graphics subsystem it is not but on a Windows O/S unlike the original Xbox. The X360 is a very different beast compared to the original Xbox, it has much more in common with the Sony and Nintendo consoles in that it uses a custom architechure and isn't an x86 based machine like the Xbox was. That is the big reason why the backwards compatabilty on the X360 relies on an emulator to run the original Xbox games. As for RPG's, well all 3 are going to have some great cross platform ones and also some platform exclusives as well. X360 and PS3 will both have Final Fantasy games and Nintendo with have it's Zelda games so I honestly don't see how you can lose by purchasing any of the 3. The main reason I will get an X360 in November is because to obtain a licence from Microsoft to make games for the X360 the developers legally have to make the all the games Xbox Live enabled, that means extra downloadable content and online gaming, Xbox Live has been running for 3 years and it is a superb service and that is what has really sold the X360 for me. The PS3 looks awesome as well but I won't commit to buying one until Sony announce what their online plans are, the PS2 online setup was a farce and I won't spend £300 on the PS3 unless the online setup is spot on.

 

[Sycho]

Any idea how much each console will be?

 

[cHodAX]

If i buy one, it will be xbox 360.

By the way chod, what about SLI dual 6800 ultras(new dual cpu versions coming) isn't that going to be fairly strong for pcs too?Oo

Matt, a system with those beasties is going to cost more than the PS3/X360/Rev combined and even then you are STILL going to have less raw CPU power than any of those 3 consoles, no I am not exaggerating bud. For the next 2 years there will not be a PC on the planet that compete with any of the 3 consoles in overall power. Graphics wise the PC will catch up somewhat in 18 months and it always has the advantage of being able to play games at crazy resolutions (although HDTV 1080p will be hard to beat). The one advantage the PC holds however is the diversity of games and the ease of development, PC gaming will be alive and strong for many years to come, people just have to accept that the next-gen consoles are technically stunning and that the PC will be playing catch up for a while.

 

[cHodAX]

Any idea how much each console will be?

Rumours and I do stress the word rumours are $300-350 for X360 and $400-450 for PS3 (no news on Rev yet). These seem reasonable when you consider that Microsoft is going to subsidise the X360 hardware cost 100% whereas Sony who are no where near as 'cash rich' as Microsoft will subsidise to around 50% of the cost. They will both take massive losses on the hardware and recoup on the software sales, Xbox Live will also be a substatial cash cow for Microsoft as well, $10 a month and they already have 3 million subscribers which you can expect to at least double over the next 18 months. Microsoft has $30 billion in cash or so to burn, Sony's profits are in freefall so the above rumours do seem to be pretty close to the mark.

 

[Bubble]

I guess i'll go with the FF series

I'm not interested in any online connections etc, i have my PC for that, nor bluetooth or anything like that etc etc.

the PS3 seems to be packing more punch...but i guess its down to the games (Like GTA4 etc)

 

[cHodAX]

I guess i'll go with the FF series


the PS3 seems to be packing more punch...but i guess its down to the games (Like GTA4 etc)

Don't believe the hype Bubble me ol'sausage Wait and see, it is the senisble thing to do, I plan on buying 2 if not all 3 but my money stays in the bank until I am 100% convinced and there is no way to be totally convinced until you can try the console yourself. Screenshots and trailers lie but a game running in front of you that you can test will not.

 

[Chrystina]

Xbox has 3 cpu's that can excute 2 threads in parallel, so it is effectivly 6 v's 7. The X360 cores also has 3 very fast 128bit Altivec processors built in so let me assure you the consoles are very evenly matched, anything you have read (such as PS3 being x3 as powerful) is just rumour and hype but lets not argue, by this time next year we will all be able to see and judge for ourselves. Everyone wins

just to make a few things papa cho... the XBox 360 has _ONE_ CPU which in turn has 3 cores of which each is hyper-threaded (i.e. can run 2 hardware threads).
PS3 has _ONE_ Cell chip which consists of one PPC core and 8 additional custom cores (SPE's) (each of which is more powerfull than the PPU core).
in terms of raw procesisng power the Cell is superior to the XBox 360 chip, but it all comes down to what developers make of it in the end...

 

[old.Tohtori]

The main question is though....

What the f*ck am i gonna do with my old xbox, P2 and GC?!

 

[Bubble]

soon PS2 games and consols will sell well as Retro gamers

 

[cHodAX]

just to make a few things papa cho... the XBox 360 has _ONE_ CPU which in turn has 3 cores of which each is hyper-threaded (i.e. can run 2 hardware threads).
PS3 has _ONE_ Cell chip which consists of one PPC core and 8 additional custom cores (SPE's) (each of which is more powerfull than the PPU core).
in terms of raw procesisng power the Cell is superior to the XBox 360 chip, but it all comes down to what developers make of it in the end...

Yes it is all on one die, 3x PPC cores that can process 6 threads in parallel. PS3 has one cell which is a single PPC and 8 SPE (although it seems one SPE will be disabled to improve yeilds) which make it a massively parallel system with huge potential. Don't discount the extra 2 Altivec VMX-128 vector units that the X360 has though to make up some of the performance difference. The PS3 does have a theoretical performance advantage (there is no real way to tell right now until we have 100% working final hardware) but as you know bud the massively parallel nature of the PS2 gave it a huge theorectical performance advantage in the current generation but it was a bitch to get to grips with and it is only now starting to produce games that are really worthy of the hardware. I am not underestimating PS3 at all, it is incredible and I am happy to admit that but I also believe that Microsoft and Nintendo have produced incrediable machines as well and none of them can be considered to be 'underpowered' in any way shape or form although Sony have already started playing dirty tricks with a number of misleading comments in the press.

In the end it comes down to the software and none of us know how that will turn out at this point, a year down the line we will have a clearer idea but it won't even be close to being done and dusted for a few years yet. Either way everyone wins, all next-gen are far better than almost any of us expected.

 

[cHodAX]

Chrystina while we are at it, I know you have access to the PS3 devkits and are probably under NDA but is there anything you can tell us about how they are shaping up without breaking your contract? A friend has told me that they are very much alpha kits right now which are mainly be used to get basic engine code up and running although it seems that Epic have worked miracles with thier kit in just over 6 weeks using the Unreal 3 engine but then I guess they had alot of game assets and code already in place from the PC version that they ported across. Microsoft are in a similiar postition, using G5 based SDK machines with ATi X800 cards that have about 30% of the final X360 power, they are considered the alpha development platform with beta kits due by the end of June which should have the final ATi hardware and a CPU setup capable of processing 4 threads which I would imagine is around 80% of final hardware shipping performance.

 

[Chrystina]

Chrystina while we are at it, I know you have access to the PS3 devkits and are probably under NDA but is there anything you can tell us about how they are shaping up without breaking your contract? A friend has told me that they are very much alpha kits right now which are mainly be used to get basic engine code up and running although it seems that Epic have worked miracles with thier kit in just over 6 weeks using the Unreal 3 engine but then I guess they had alot of game assets and code already in place from the PC version that they ported across.

well, to be technically very precise there are _NO_ PS3 devkits available at all... the current incarnations are "evaluation systems" to get developers used to the Cell system, SDK and developement environment (just like the G5 based devkit for XBox 360). But they get better and better with every version and closer to the final specs So what you have seen from the Unreal 3 engine can only get better
Can't tell more I'm afraid, unless you drag me to a pub-crawl thru London and bribe me with beer

 

[cHodAX]

well, to be technically very precise there are _NO_ PS3 devkits available at all... the current incarnations are "evaluation systems" to get developers used to the Cell system, SDK and developement environment (just like the G5 based devkit for XBox 360). But they get better and better with every version and closer to the final specs So what you have seen from the Unreal 3 engine can only get better
Can't tell more I'm afraid, unless you drag me to a pub-crawl thru London and bribe me with beer

Come to Manchester and I will buy you beer till it starts to come out of your ears So, do you actually have Cell systems to work with and test code on or are you just developing code on the devkits using guidelines laidout in the tech sheets? I know it is early days and final silicon is along way off but no one on the outside seems to have a clear idea how far along the PS3 development is, is there a date yet for when you can expect final hardware to really start testing with or is it a floating deadline at the moment? If answering breaks NDA just ignore me

Btw have you seen the X360 Dead or Alive 4 video? For alpha code on an alpha devkit it is breath taking. Must be exciting times working in the games industry right now, finally having hardware that has huge potential.

If you haven't seen it then have a look at this when you can...

http://www.torrentspy.com/search.asp?mode=torrentdetails&id=295770

 

[Chrystina]

Come to Manchester and I will buy you beer till it starts to come out of your ears

I'll hold you to that...

So, do you actually have Cell systems to work with and test code on or are you just developing code on the devkits using guidelines laidout in the tech sheets? I know it is early days and final silicon is along way off but no one on the outside seems to have a clear idea how far along the PS3 development is, is there a date yet for when you can expect final hardware to really start testing with or is it a floating deadline at the moment? If answering breaks NDA just ignore me

oh dear... I'm not working in "active" development anymore, so I can't say how "real life" development on the new consoles works at the moment. I'm working for Some big japanese Computer Entertainement company and do tech stuff, no game-dev stuff... so there's not much I can tell really I'm afraid... but of course I wouldn't want to insult anyones intelligence (x'cept maybe twolls) and asume that it's clear for everyone that development must be well on track if they want to release it early 2006

Btw have you seen the X360 Dead or Alive 4 video? For alpha code on an alpha devkit it is breath taking. Must be exciting times working in the games industry right now, finally having hardware that has huge potential.

well, tbh, I think it was more fun and exciting some years ago when teams were small, everyone knew each other and what people did... now you have teams of 100 people and more working on one game and I can't imagine that being as "rewarding" to see the game in stores as it was years ago when you could really say what you've done for it and not just "I made the code for the save-game screen"... if you see what I mean... or maybe it's just me getting old and grumpy...

 

[cHodAX]

or maybe it's just me getting old and grumpy...

A much more likely senario

I do understand what you mean though and I think it showed in that games were much more diverse when there was lots of small developers who weren't sticking to established templates and movie licences. That freedom to develop the kind of games you wanted to play yourself must have been real nice. That said though it must be a thrill to be working with hardware that is a huge leap beyond the current generation, I can imagine that the limited hardware in Xbox and PS2 was becoming very restrictive for developers who wanted to push the envelope. Now they have new hardware that is going to take years before the softwate matches the full potential of the hardware.

 

[cHodAX]

I'll hold you to that...

Lucky that you are a Lurikeen in real life so it won't take more than half a pint before it starts to come out of your ears

 

[UndyingAngel]

tbh from what I have seen so far.. the X-box 360 has had much more media hype thats to Microsofts Marketing team.. I will have to say.. that is you bleave eveything microsfot said in the press conferance.. the PS2 was no compertition for the Xbox and that Xbox was King of the world.... but it all comes down to what you like.. I will always buy Nintendo and Playstation.. becuase they develop the game that I play, Final Fantasy, Grandia, etc.. Im a huge RPG fan.. and as bubble said which ever offers the best selection of RPG games will be the consol I buy.. and im guessing it will be either sony or nintendo..

 

[cHodAX]

tbh from what I have seen so far.. the X-box 360 has had much more media hype thats to Microsofts Marketing team.. I will have to say.. that is you bleave eveything microsfot said in the press conferance.. the PS2 was no compertition for the Xbox and that Xbox was King of the world.... but it all comes down to what you like.. I will always buy Nintendo and Playstation.. becuase they develop the game that I play, Final Fantasy, Grandia, etc.. Im a huge RPG fan.. and as bubble said which ever offers the best selection of RPG games will be the consol I buy.. and im guessing it will be either sony or nintendo..

Point me to a link that shows Microsoft ever said that the PS2 was no comptetion because I will be damned if I can find one anywhere on the internet. Quite the contrary infact, Sony stated on a number of occasions in 2001 that they did not consider the Xbox to be serious competition and in many ways they were right, they had almost a year to market ahead of Microsoft and a 15+ million installed user base. The machines were evenly matched but the Xbox exclusive titles showed that the Xbox had a slight edge in video quality. It didn't matter though as Sony had a massive lead, strong brand loyalty and a very solid peice of hardware.

Frankly it sounds like you just don't like Microsoft and that is fine, you are entitled to your opinions. However please don't post as fact things that never happened or are just rumours unless you admit that they are just rumours, it just clouds the issue and we want to keep this thread nice and friendly. The Sony may well end up being the better machine but there is just no way to tell right now and anyone who says there is does not have a clue about hardware and software development. Both systems will be awesome regardless so there is no need for us to all agrue about which is best, certainly not until we all actually have the machines ourselves

 

[UndyingAngel]

Microsoft never said.. that in so many words but if you want the E3 press conferance.. that imply it yes im not a microsoft fan for many reason.. and i can only think of 1 game I like on the x-box (and its not halo )

with reguards to the better machine I really dont care.. like I said ill do with teh consol that has the games that I want .. if that ends up being microsoft when I would by an xbox 360.. remember, Developers and games make teh consol.. not the hardware inside (tho that helps ofc)

 

[cHodAX]

Microsoft never said.. that in so many words but if you want the E3 press conferance.. that imply it yes im not a microsoft fan for many reason.. and i can only think of 1 game I like on the x-box (and its not halo )

with reguards to the better machine I really dont care.. like I said ill do with teh consol that has the games that I want .. if that ends up being microsoft when I would by an xbox 360.. remember, Developers and games make teh consol.. not the hardware inside (tho that helps ofc)

I have both the PS2 and Xbox so I try to remain unbaised, I like many games on each of them. The one big thing pushing me towards X360 is Xbox Live, I love online gaming and that is one area where Microsoft has a big advantage over Sony, Xbox Live is already a great service and Xbox Live 360 already looks to be a big improvement. As long as Sony don't botch the PS3 online gaming like they did on the PS2 then I will definately be buying a PS3 as well. For the people who will only buy one console it really is best to wait and see rather than decide now and regret it after the fact.

 

[UndyingAngel]

yeah I have to agree sony did a bad job with online gameing.. and Xbox from what I know did a great job.. but iv always used my PC for online games.. so this part has never intrested me dont think I could ever play CS or Quake etc.. with a joypad but thats just me I know lots of ppl that do it well

 

[cHodAX]

yeah I have to agree sony did a bad job with online gameing.. and Xbox from what I know did a great job.. but iv always used my PC for online games.. so this part has never intrested me dont think I could ever play CS or Quake etc.. with a joypad but thats just me I know lots of ppl that do it well

X360 has full keyboard and mouse support Unreal Tournament 2007 on a 51inch HDTV at 1080p is going to roxor my soxor

 

[UndyingAngel]

X360 has full keyboard and mouse support Unreal Tournament 2007 on a 51inch HDTV at 1080p is going to roxor my soxor

give 51" HDTV!!

was thinking of buying a 42" plasma screen.. now they are under £1000

 

[Tasslehoff]

what is backwards compatable?

Thought this was some kind of joke and that the answer was elbatapmoc. (that´s supposed to be compatable backwards)

 

[Chrystina]

X360 has full keyboard and mouse support Unreal Tournament 2007 on a 51inch HDTV at 1080p is going to roxor my soxor

too bad X360 doesn't do 1080p, only 1080i

 

[cHodAX]

too bad X360 doesn't do 1080p, only 1080i

Hmm thats wierd, some places I have seen 1080p being reported and others show 720p and 1080i. Ahh well 1080i is still 1920x1080 and that should look pretty damn kickass with X4 Anti Aliasing.

 

[DocWolfe]

cho stop chatting up forum goers and who said you could get out of your box? come on msn I want to know how your holiday went :touch:

 

[Garnet]

They wont be remaking FF7 for the PS3 btw because of its ability to run PS1 games. Square-Enix already announced this somewhere and are too busy finishing off the FF7 Advent Children film.

 

[Job]

Ha just ordered me new projector.
Only 1280x720, but should look freakin awesome, the reality is though you cant play DAOC on one, it's just too big, you get as sick as a dog when spinning the camera round and your neck hurts from scanning round the screen.
The contrast levels aren't as good as monitors either, so you have to play in total darkness or you cant see fxkall at night.

Works great on console games though, bring on HDTV in the UK and I'm a happy man.