TV New Season!

DaGaffer

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So this year we're getting a LOTR remake, a Dune remake and Foundation. Good to see modern SF and fantasy doing so well! /sarcasm
 

Scouse

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So this year we're getting a LOTR remake, a Dune remake and Foundation. Good to see modern SF and fantasy doing so well! /sarcasm
At least we get Foundation as a first for TV.

Marvel's all fantasy - it's just not swords (much). Scarlett Witch is so far on the "just fucking magic, not even advanced tech" scale that it goes full Harry Potter too...
 

Aoami

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So this year we're getting a LOTR remake, a Dune remake and Foundation. Good to see modern SF and fantasy doing so well! /sarcasm
LOTR is a prequel rather than remake isn't it? Not to take away from the original point, which still stands, but just want to know.

Edit - just checked - it is, it's set in the second age. The LoTR books are in the third age.
 

DaGaffer

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At least we get Foundation as a first for TV.

Marvel's all fantasy - it's just not swords (much). Scarlett Witch is so far on the "just fucking magic, not even advanced tech" scale that it goes full Harry Potter too...
Even the Marvel movies are based on really old characters and stories; Infinity War is what, 40 years old?

LOTR is a prequel rather than remake isn't it? Not to take away from the original point, which still stands, but just want to know.

Its funny, I'm not a massive Netflix fan, most of the platform is full of true crime garbage, but at least they try push new IP now and then; Amazon play it extremely safe, Disney are all about the brands, and HBO are somewhere in the middle.

Edit - just checked - it is, it's set in the second age. The LoTR books are in the third age.
Why the fuck are they calling it Lord of The Rings then? Brand recognition bullshit. Unfortunately it demonstrates my point; brand trumps content time after time.
 

Hawkwind

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Looking forward to Dune and Foundation but not so much LOTR.
 

Moriath

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Even the Marvel movies are based on really old characters and stories; Infinity War is what, 40 years old?



Why the fuck are they calling it Lord of The Rings then? Brand recognition bullshit. Unfortunately it demonstrates my point; brand trumps content time after time.
Should be middle earth second age or something
 

Zarjazz

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While LOTR may have the brand recognition with the general public and all of the Amazon advertising money being spent on it. However its actually the Wheel of Time series that many fantasy fans are more eager to see and Amazon are keeping its production extremely secretive. My guess is it will either be a sleeper hit or crash and burn.
 

Gwadien

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While LOTR may have the brand recognition with the general public and all of the Amazon advertising money being spent on it. However its actually the Wheel of Time series that many fantasy fans are more eager to see and Amazon are keeping its production extremely secretive. My guess is it will either be a sleeper hit or crash and burn.
$1billion isn't it?

If it's bad I think heads will actually roll.
 

Moriath

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While LOTR may have the brand recognition with the general public and all of the Amazon advertising money being spent on it. However its actually the Wheel of Time series that many fantasy fans are more eager to see and Amazon are keeping its production extremely secretive. My guess is it will either be a sleeper hit or crash and burn.
11 books or so and the author died before the last one was finished. I have ten sitting on my shelf and just debating on reading them again after 20 years
 

Zarjazz

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11 books or so and the author died before the last one was finished. I have ten sitting on my shelf and just debating on reading them again after 20 years
Well that last book, actually three it was so long, was completed by Brian Sanderson based on the authors original notes. Unless you know about the series it's hard to describe what a monumental task that was. The general consensus is that while not perfect he did a great job bringing it all together at the end.
 

Ormorof

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Well that last book, actually three it was so long, was completed by Brian Sanderson based on the authors original notes. Unless you know about the series it's hard to describe what a monumental task that was. The general consensus is that while not perfect he did a great job bringing it all together at the end.
After re-reading them recently when final book came out (read others as a teen) i got distinct impression Robert Jordan had issues with women, they were written better in final book i felt, less tugging of braids


Edit: oh god the final book came out years ago now i feel old with my "recently"
 

Zarjazz

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After re-reading them recently when final book came out (read others as a teen) i got distinct impression Robert Jordan had issues with women, they were written better in final book i felt, less tugging of braids
I don't think he had an issue with women but rather he wasn't particularly a good writer of them. Pretty much the core plot of the series is about that fact if the two sexes don't work together and have equality the world breaks. Saying that though it's an extremely popular series with women because despite the sometimes stereotypical characterisation it has one hell of a female cast and plot lines for them.
 

Aoami

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I can imagine it's bloody hard for men to write women and vice-versa. I could wax lyrical for ages about how great LoTR & Tolkein are, but how many women are there in that story? Eowyn is the most mentioned women in the series, with her name appearing 125 times. For context, a talking tree gets 161 mentions, and a horse gets namechecked 70 times. Galadriel is the only other female character named over 50 times. Arwen, the main love interest of one of the main male characters, is mentioned a whooping 19 times.
 

Ormorof

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I don't think he had an issue with women but rather he wasn't particularly a good writer of them. Pretty much the core plot of the series is about that fact if the two sexes don't work together and have equality the world breaks. Saying that though it's an extremely popular series with women because despite the sometimes stereotypical characterisation it has one hell of a female cast and plot lines for them.
True, they had great stories, and lots of power, but constantly had to be rescued by men, then were ungrateful afterwards. As a teen i could happily say "bah, women" but after reading a lot more books it feels like he had some bad experiences and was venting 😃
 

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I honestly don't get why people try to mark such content based on very modern values and present day society. Two world wars where a vast majority of men had to march off into battle whilst women kept 'the home fires burning'. Political/ society extolling messages of honour and duty. Plus the books were based on the theme of Celtic heroes in mythical lands.

Can't we just let the writers be and accept the work was a product of its time. Painting Tolkien as a sexist that had issues with women is speculation at best.

No one is perfect, far from it but no need to put these awful modern labels on them.
 

Aoami

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I honestly don't get why people try to mark such content based on very modern values and present day society. Two world wars where a vast majority of men had to march off into battle whilst women kept 'the home fires burning'. Political/ society extolling messages of honour and duty. Plus the books were based on the theme of Celtic heroes in mythical lands.

Can't we just let the writers be and accept the work was a product of its time. Painting Tolkien as a sexist that had issues with women is speculation at best.

No one is perfect, far from it but no need to put these awful modern labels on them.
The point of my post was not to paint Tolkein as sexist, just to point out that even for the very best writers it's probably extremely hard to write characters of the opposite sex. Best to just leave them out rather than write badly imo.
 

Scouse

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I could wax lyrical for ages about how great LoTR & Tolkein are, but how many women are there in that story? Eowyn is the most mentioned women in the series, with her name appearing 125 times. For context, a talking tree gets 161 mentions, and a horse gets namechecked 70 times. Galadriel is the only other female character named over 50 times. Arwen, the main love interest of one of the main male characters, is mentioned a whooping 19 times.
But, frankly, who cares?

Arwen is the main love interest - but the book isn't about that. They wrote her character large in the movies because that's what works for cinemagoers - but Tolkein's story wasn't about who was knobbing who and why - that was just a footnote. It's focussed on the journey with the ring and what the characters did around that.

Add to that he grew up in a time where men were the focus. I don't miss the female characters in the books - it's not like he hates women (one of the most powerful characters is a woman) - it's just a different time.

The BBC said recently that they're never going to commission an all-male comedy group again. Which means that they've effectively banned Monty Python. Having female characters and leads is a good thing but in no way does it lessen Tolkein's achievements that his books aren't replete with them.

Edit: You already answered it :)
 
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Ormorof

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I honestly don't get why people try to mark such content based on very modern values and present day society. Two world wars where a vast majority of men had to march off into battle whilst women kept 'the home fires burning'. Political/ society extolling messages of honour and duty. Plus the books were based on the theme of Celtic heroes in mythical lands.

Can't we just let the writers be and accept the work was a product of its time. Painting Tolkien as a sexist that had issues with women is speculation at best.

No one is perfect, far from it but no need to put these awful modern labels on them.
I was writing about Robert Jordan not Tolkien :)
 

SilverHood

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I'm excited for both Dune and Wheel of Time. Every time I read Dune, I pick up on something new. Wheel of Time I've read maybe 3 times. It's funny how much plot is revealed in small hints, that only make sense if you know the lore. It was nice that we got closure, with the Tar Valon sections of the last 4 books my fave part of the whole story.
 

Embattle

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Just watch High Score on Netflix, really interesting and bought back some great memories.
 

Moriath

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Just watch High Score on Netflix, really interesting and bought back some great memories.
If you want to find something along those lines

robert x. Cringley

the rise of the ners : accidental empires parts 1-3

on you tube still. From 1996

used it for my final year presentation. How m$ stole shit ;)
 

Scouse

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Really not sure about how they have managed to take a few novels which are largely intellectual conversations and turned it into action TV (with love stories no less!).

But then, I really do love the book. :)
 

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