New Alliance on MId/pyd

[Aarweenie]

Originally posted by Farnis
Very noble of you. Its this self centredness that breaks up big alliances in the first place. Take 5 minutes to consider that not everyone is playing for your benefit.

oki.... let me get this straigt... what do I benefit from 1 or 2 larger alliances?

and what does the realm gather?


what do I lose on not haveing 1 or 2 larger alliances....

and what do the realm lose?

 

[Mid_Blejsarus]

Originally posted by rynnor

Blejs own mob were conspicuous by their absence because they were farming UB3R LOOT in TG.

Thats fair enough but it would be hypocritical to further argue against an alliance that did have folk there when you couldnt be arsed to turn out till your farming session was over.

P.S. Is the Blej account back with its original owner or is it still played by the equally obnoxious bloke from the US servers...

last time BO did a TG raid was the 8 of juli for your info.
So i guess it was a FFA Raid with 40+ mids there to so whine more crybaby.

and wtf u talking about US dude? get some fact never ever a us bloke person played my account, the dude was probelly me ^^
So before u start talk about stuff u havent got a clue about, get some facts before you post.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Ok.

First up:

I'm a little embarressed for Midgard that a post about a new alliance has degenerated into a mud-slinging contest. Please all, resist the urge to continue this, especially those who are GMs/Officers and/or alliance leaders. You may have valid points, but this really serves no purpose.

If you are going to create an alliance you need to rise above all that nonsense because the function of an alliance is to keep people operating as a team. As soon as you let yourself be dragged into any slagging you just blew the point of an alliance and you actually hurt your own alliance more than you think because you cause people to be unwilling to cooperate.

Secondly:

Yes, there is inefficiency in several small alliances to a degree, but this is offset by the (in theory) larger amount of cooperation available simply because people are able to play the way they want to better. Some people like a pure RvR AC, some don't. In the end it comes down to how much each guild within that alliance actually is interested in realm level events/raids/hunts just how active that alliance will be, and not all will. If a particular alliance wants to use AC as an extension of GU, let them, its up to them. If they want to use it for RvR only, great.

Last:

Hope you're all ready for this.

Even the people you don't like have to be treated with respect.

It is so fundamental to teamwork and organising and running things I cannot overstress the importance of this.

There are many people I deal with that I wouldn't invite around for tea and biscuits but they are still damned good players and make a really important contribution to the realm and have my respect because of what they can do.

As soon as anyone who wants to call themself an alliance leader or is senior in an alliance lets themself be dragged into mudslinging you are halfway to defeating what you are trying to achieve and are beginning the process of getting your own alliance excluded from realm events by other alliances and guilds.

 

[frols]

Fight! fight! fight!

 

[rynnor]

Originally posted by Mid_Blejsarus
and wtf u talking about US dude? get some fact never ever a us bloke person played my account, the dude was probelly me ^^
So before u start talk about stuff u havent got a clue about, get some facts before you post.

Hmm - I remember some relic raid planning chat group in the first few months of this year when someone explained they were from the us servers and playing your account while you were having brain surgery.

What did you have removed - your sense of humour or your ability to type the word you?...

 

[whitelines]

Originally posted by Aarweenie
if this isn't a wat of conversation, what is this then?

ofc you don't HAVE to tell your name on bw... neither do you HAVE to do it when you call someone...

this is a forum, I was speaking so everyone could hear, and no I didnt call your on the phone, had no urge to speak to you in private, please stop refering to the phone thing

Originally posted by Aarweenie
and when they ask I can't understand why it is that hard to answer... not signing your name to your opinion is the same as beeing affraid to have your name connected to it... in other words, you don't really agree with your own opinion......

I did post my name of my ingame character in my next post, I have nothing to hide darling. The name Whiteline was taken so i added +s on the end, as you have done with yours

Originally posted by Aarweenie
I get the feeling you want to say that I have higher realm rank then you and because of that ignoreing your opinions, and want to turn it against me?...

nothing, fact is I even share alot of your opinions here on BW, has nothing to do with realm ranks

Originally posted by Aarweenie
I've never said that because of your lower level/realm rank I ignore your opinions, just that I do belive there is a reason why you shouldn't have opinions at an early stage (the same reason you can't vote in democraticly votes, at least in sweden, before you're 18 years old). If you don't tell me your name or who you are, then how can I know if you're beyond the stage of experience were you can have a "valid" (or what you like to call it) opinion...

why shouldnt I have opinions at early stage? am I to dumb to think or talk? do I have to prof my ingame time or realm rank everytime I speak? those are my opinions and who gives yuo the right to judge who got "valid" opinions?

 

[Dook_Pug]

Originally posted by rynnor


What did you have removed - your sense of humour or your ability to type the word you?...

So...

In the same post you call Blejs an "obnoxious bloke" you resort to petty insults when none have been directed at you.

Excuse me while I laugh.

Pot, kettle, black.

 

[Ottar]

> you can never really pull the people running round emain or
> the people xping in malmo out to the frontiers except in the
> most extreme circumstances

Mostly untrue! Cant pull people from Malmo, from DF and from loot raids, grant you that. Can do so from Emain and Hadrian's. People who have died and are waiting for port in Uppland, people who are bored silly camping a dead milegate or cruising in a dead zone, those people do switch zones based on info about enemy presence in other areas. Right now, at least our alliance has very little of such info passing around on /as. Less people in alliance - less likely you reach some that are in good position to move to ones aid. Less likely anything actually gets reported on /as as it feels rather futile.

> In my experience if there are significant enemy in our frontier theres always
> a defence cg going.

Those cg's yer talking about typically get formed some time after we have already lost 2-3 keeps. By that time, invading enemy has been mucking around in our frontier for an hour, being spotted a few dozen times about which no info gets passed around.

> I know whole guilds that had alliance chat turned off - myself included
> sometimes, it might have FELT like you were telling lots of people but

Hmm.. 1 /as vs a dozen /as's.. It kinda stands to REASON 1 common channel of information facilitates info reaching people who want it more easily. And indeed, it did felt it was so then and it sure as hell doesnt feel like that anymore. But enough of feelings..

Could it be that me spamming old /as with enemy movements didnt actually interest anyone? Sure, that could have been the case.

Could it be that me spamming old /as caused some individuals or even entire guilds to turn /as off entirely and do their own thing? Sure, that could have been the case.

But what I darn well know for -certain- is that I sure as hell got more and I mean -alot- more info out of /as back then than I do now.

Alliance chat is first and foremost a channel of information. There is NO in-game mechanics of it being anything else. Ok, theres exp/rp bonus while fighting in range of an alliance keep but thats kinda irrelevant. Only game mechanic that forces a realm to have multiple alliances is the guild limit in an alliance. Many alliances means fragmented information flow and less effectiveness. Anything but minimal number of alliances per realm due to game-mechanic limitations reduces realm's effectiveness and is therefore bad politics.

But as someone already said.. beating old horse and all that.


> guilds that are most suited to running one of these

These days you dont need guilds running a /cg. Best for public /cg mod is actually a bot or a crafter in Hagall that doesnt relog too often.

> I'll bring it up at the next NE meeting and see about getting a public
> list together

Ok, thats a good start.

To Roo:

> but this is offset by the (in theory) larger amount of cooperation
> available simply because people are able to play the way they want to better

Nope. In practice it mostly isnt working that way. If what you say was true, you'd see all or great majority of RvR-oriented people being in RvR-oriented guilds, being in RvR-oriented alliance. All the PvE-oriented people being in PvE-oriented guilds being in PvE-oriented alliance. This isnt so. People being in guilds are based on personal sympathies and feuds, guilds being in alliances are based on GM A being pissed at GM B who gets along just fine with GM C with some but not much correlation with wether GM's A, B and C can be commonly found in Emain, Hagall or the bloody glacier dungeon.

What you actually see more and more on RvR scene is groups being made of people from rather random guilds and alliances as they are not able to find enough likely interested people from their own circles.

> There are many people I deal with that I wouldn't invite around for tea
> and biscuits but they are still damned good players and make a really
> important contribution to the realm and have my respect because of what
> they can do.

Now THIS is a real good basis for good policies and effective alliances. Being able to co-exist and co-operate with folks you wouldnt want to have tea with. What we have right now - heavily fragmented realm - is a result of direct opposite of what you are saying - people not being able to co-operate with people they dont like and as a result there not being enough people to co-operate with.

Ottar

 

[hoden]

there is room for all types and guilds and all types of players on the server , all you need to do is make sure you know the other players and guilds and alliances that share the same views as you , this is the reason we started an alliance because we share the same views .

i have no problem with blej or anyone elses views on the game , the only thing that upsets me is people trying to force their views on you . Aarween i had only been playing a couple of months and had a level 38 char when i tried to help you save eye of odin form going down when you became gm , i had limited game time but having been a clan leader in counter strike for 2 years and guild leader on ultima online i understand a lot about online game leadership , people either make a good point or they dont

jpf have been in 2 alliances with dtp both alliances being the biggest on mid/pyd at the time , they just didnt work for us we both felt left out of many things set up by the bigger guilds , who knows our alliance may become a big force in our frontier in emain , etc etc who knows we may just as easy fade away , but as long as the peeps in both guild wish to work together then i say we are stronger than a 20 guild alliance who do nothing but fight and moan about spam over /as etc

like roo said (miss you roo) lets put an end to this , i started this post just to pass on info , that i agree is much needed in mid/pyd , a name people could contact etc . so lets stop the name calling and moaning , and come back soon Tay your where always the best person on mid when i needed advice

 

[Aarweenie]

Originally posted by whitelines
this is a forum, I was speaking so everyone could hear, and no I didnt call your on the phone, had no urge to speak to you in private, please stop refering to the phone thing

so... just because everyone can hear you speaking it doesn't mean you should tell your name? never said you called me on the phone... but it was an example... there is something called social intellegence... and to be socially intellegent includes signing your name to your opinion...

you use Whitelines as your BW nick... I could use Weenie as mine... no one, at least very few, would know it was me...

as you've played daoc since beta, then it's adviceable to write what chars you've played with... since Whiteline was created about 4 month ago...

I did post my name of my ingame character in my next post, I have nothing to hide darling. The name Whiteline was taken so i added +s on the end, as you have done with yours

reason I don't have Aarween as my nick is that someone allready got it...

and you said that you've been playing since beta... but you didn't say that you've been playing as annother char... until the post afterwards... anyhow... you've said who you are... no reason to keep arguing about this...

just that I don't like people that have opinions about other peoples thoughts and don't want to say their own name...

nothing, fact is I even share alot of your opinions here on BW, has nothing to do with realm ranks

bad example then

why shouldnt I have opinions at early stage? am I to dumb to think or talk? do I have to prof my ingame time or realm rank everytime I speak? those are my opinions and who gives yuo the right to judge who got "valid" opinions?

the same reasons as I said before... you will allways have opinions, you can't escape it... you had it since you've been born and you'll have them to the day you die...

but at an early stage you don't have experience ennough to make a "good" opinion... as the example with the mother and the child I mentioned before... the child doesn't allways understand that the money have to be used for other things then candy... when you was lvl 10 with your first char, and I would ask you how you think will be the best setup of alliances... I'm quite sure you would have answered diffrently then you would have answered today... at least most of the people here would...

now when you got more experience of the game you simply know better...

experience of the game is what matters most imo... it's quite obvious to me at least... don't know about you...

not saying you aren't allowed to an opinion or anything like that...

 

[Brunore]

this is better than Eastenders

 

[Farnis]

Can I be Alfie Moon?

 

[Dook_Pug]

/em has dibs on Dot Cotton

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

It's funny really. Last few times I've been out and about the frontier I've seen great cooperation amongst Mids.

Even tonight as some naughty Albs decided to visit we cancelled doing someone's epic and got our ragtag selves to the frontier, quickly joined by the likes of BaF, Onslaught, SoN, White Rose, Maelstrom, some Valour peeps and others.

We're not allied with any of these.

We all stood together.

Quite frankly my dears,

Midgard works.

 

[Mid_Blejsarus]

all i say look yesterday, ppl didnt even know a keep like avakr was getting attacked just shows how good communcation is..

and to some others.
eat me.

and to some others.

<gives a big hug to dook,ottar and others>

 

[Ottar]

> It's funny really. Last few times I've been out and about the
> frontier I've seen great cooperation amongst Mids.

It's depressing really. Last few times I've been out and about the frontier, Ive seen little or no co-operation and chronic incapacity of taking out anything more than half our strength in numbers. But Roo.. I honestly do envy your way of imagining a bright side.

Ottar

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Imagining? No.

I think there's a bit of over-reaction here partly because peeps have been getting a little tense with each other. If we get 2-3 FG enemies in our frontier it doesn't take a general call to arms and we get enough peeps chugging around looking for them. If its more than that then we get more peeps out.

If you look back over the last couple of weeks, each time there has been an incursion for the most part there has been an appropriate level of response.

Some of the biggest (and most fun) battles ever fought on Midgard soil have happened in the last couple of weeks, I think its unfair on the lads and lasses that turn up to say they are not acting as a realm.

I've not exactly been overactive in-game these last few months but last few weeks I've been in-game more and the number of people that are willing just to get on with it and have a good team time together has been really good. I don't claim to have gone round every individual player of course.

Not looking at it with rose-tints either. Of course it could be better with more effective comms between alliances.
We just have to work at it, thats all.

Fedaykin and our allies are.

The question for each alliance officer and leader is, are you?

Because if the answer is yes, then the bickering must stop.

 

[Ottar]

> We just have to work at it, thats all.
> Fedaykin and our allies are.

I must be blind then as I am seeing close to zero signs of it. The reason we still hold on to half the relics and got access to DF most of the time is albs are lazy bastards with a realm even more fragmented than ours and hibs are having too much fun with 1fg and minizerg warfare to bother.

Dont think Im somehow unable to reckognize decent teamwork and leadership either, provided it is there to see. Was on one of them Shank's TG raids a week ago. Truly impressed with that guy. Its a damn shame he doesnt do relics.

Ottar

 

[Mid_Blejsarus]

btw if u have a keep claim its your responsibilty to pass the word.
1thing i often do to pass the word is this. ask someone in malmo to pass the info to their cg, then 1 in emain. and if anyone in odins tell there to nad words get spreaded fast if all those tell their as,group,cg

 

[snotfor]

Tbh as it is atm, relic raids have been nerfed by mythic/slash goa.... its next to impossible to get at relics at present imo.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Ottar, not that you might possibly know, but Fedaykin was nearly wrecked several months back and its only lately we've actually been close to mounting even a full group for RvR. At the moment we can pretty much mount a fairly balanced team with reasonable regularity and we've been out and about a lot more.

Claiming Glenlock the other night is the first time we've claimed a keep in nearly 6 months.

So possibly you've noticed in the last few months we haven't exactly been hyperactive. What guild would?

Most of the guilds we are allied with are small to medium size. When combined we hit the frontier we're not talking about a mega zerg generally. You don't get the tincans trembling because our alliance has been notified

We now have a very active AC though I will conceed in months gone by it was all but silent.

Its probably worth pointing out that the only reason Fedaykin haven't joined another alliance is because we refused to consider joining an alliance that wouldn't take all the guilds we are allied with and we also know there's a cat's chance in hell all the guilds would get in together somewhere. We did seriously think about it because it would have been in Fedaykin's own best interest (lets face it, it would have helped restablise the guild a lot faster) and I'm reasonably sure we'd have got into one of the other alliances fairly easily.
Maybe not the smartest thing in the world but Fedaykin are proud of the way we do things. The people we have in the alliance of old I'm genuinely fond of and we have had some new guilds recently join us, actually with some old friends in them.

<shrugs>

Its just a game. But I LIKE the way we deal with people


Oh, one very last thing: it's a 2-way street

 

[Brunore]

Originally posted by Dook_Pug
/em has dibs on Dot Cotton

All your mate, you kinky beeatch!!1

 

[Midgardian]

I can't believe a simple post about a new Alliance has de-generated into 'Handbags at Dawn' between people who are supposed to be on the same side.

Perhaps you guys should consider working for the UN Council...I hear its the same.

 

[~Mobius~]

Originally posted by Dook_Pug
/em has dibs on Dot Cotton

I wanted Dot.

I'll be Peggy then...

 

[scarffs]

Originally posted by Mid_Blejsarus
all i say look yesterday, ppl didnt even know a keep like avakr was getting attacked just shows how good communcation is..

and to some others.
eat me.

and to some others.

<gives a big hug to dook,ottar and others>

There were enough people at avakr, no ? If you knew it, then who's fault is it for not passing info ?

For the rest, all you say is ; all who agree = hug, all who dont = fuck you. Great attitude.
Gm's with comments like this divide Midgard, not a new alliance who are fed up with tyrans who tell them how to play the game they like.

 

[Mid_Blejsarus]

Originally posted by scarffs
There were enough people at avakr, no ? If you knew it, then who's fault is it for not passing info ?

For the rest, all you say is ; all who agree = hug, all who dont = fuck you. Great attitude.
Gm's with comments like this divide Midgard, not a new alliance who are fed up with tyrans who tell them how to play the game they like.

since i guess u wernt online or dont know about this part, i said..
ppl didnt even know = i didnt have a clue it was under attack.
I dont remember how many it was that was attacking it but i think it was 20+ or 30+ albs that grabed avakr at this point.

 

[dozigden]

> Less people in alliance - less likely you reach some that are in good position to move to ones aid. Less likely anything actually gets reported on /as as it feels rather futile.

True yes - but while there are a few times I feel uninformed most of the time I feel New Era has a reasonable idea whats going on.

> Those cg's yer talking about typically get formed some time after we have already lost 2-3 keeps. By that time, invading enemy has been mucking around in our frontier for an hour, being spotted a few dozen times about which no info gets passed around.

I'm not actually seeing the problem here tbh, I think if the threat is big enough it gets passed around quickly - ok if the threat isnt huge news travels slowly, sorry Ottar, but wheres the big deal?

> Hmm.. 1 /as vs a dozen /as's.. It kinda stands to REASON 1 common channel of information facilitates info reaching people who want it more easily. And indeed, it did felt it was so then and it sure as hell doesnt feel like that anymore. But enough of feelings..

Youve hit the nail on the head with your phrase "channel of information" most of what went on the old OBA alliance chat people didnt want to hear "ding 50", the arguements, in short, the spam. This meant that people who WERE interested in the RvR stuff were turning /as off cos they didnt want the other rubbish - hence my comment that it might feel like you reached many people - but lots of them had cotton wool stuffed in their ears With a division of the alliances you can have the chatty ones - and you can have the non chatty ones. A desire to be rid of Spam on alliance chat is STILL one of the first things lots of guilds mention when they apply to New Era.

Now if you were making a case for 2 alliances - essentially a spammy one and a non-spammy one I could, possibly, see an arguement for that. But to be honest New Era is about more than just a non-spammy as chat.

> Could it be that me spamming old /as caused some individuals or even entire guilds to turn /as off entirely and do their own thing? Sure, that could have been the case. But what I darn well know for -certain- is that I sure as hell got more and I mean -alot- more info out of /as back then than I do now.

Guilds doing their own thing could still go "/as 3fgs albs AMGO" even if they have as turned off, enough monkeys at typewriters with enough time will give you the complete works of shakespeare - but would you want to read through everthing else they typed to find it?

But to be honest I have no idea what your alliance chat is like now, whether you purely have rvr on it - or XP hunts or general chat - I do find it extremely interesting that when we were in the old OBA (for the uniformed this was One Big Alliance, SC however currently accepts that it actually means Old Bollox Aliiance) the RvR guilds generally wanted more chat on there and the other guilds only wanted RvR reports. If youd asked me before I was involved in DAoC I'd have said it would have been the other way round.

> Only game mechanic that forces a realm to have multiple alliances is the guild limit in an alliance. Many alliances means fragmented information flow and less effectiveness. Anything but minimal number of alliances per realm due to game-mechanic limitations reduces realm's effectiveness and is therefore bad politics.

I strongly disagree - and you know it, but like you say beating a dead horse. After we split from OBA I actually found I got on a lot better with many of the people that caused me greif previously - I look back on it as being shut in a room with people - now theyre down the street when we do meet up we get on much better.

> Ok, thats a good start.

To his credit I have had the occasional enemy reports from blej, though not lately. Dont think Ive ever had one from you though proffesor, are you purely an acedemic now? where you been hiding?


> This isnt so. People being in guilds are based on personal sympathies and feuds, guilds being in alliances are based on GM A being pissed at GM B who gets along just fine with GM C with some but not much correlation with wether GM's A, B and C can be commonly found in Emain, Hagall or the bloody glacier dungeon.

Interesting view there Ottar - Actually youll find ALL the SC officers agreed to leave OBA - ask Bloody how long it took him to persuade me to leave, he got extremely pissed at one point with my reluctance to rock the boat. Once we got into talks with the like minded guilds however it was a completely different matter.

> There are many people I deal with that I wouldn't invite around for tea
I'd certainaly NEVER go for tea with Roo

 

[Brunore]

Nerf Hoden imo, look at the trouble he has caused

 

[Brunore]

Originally posted by mobiusmid
I wanted Dot.

I'll be Peggy then...

 

[Ottar]

> comments like this divide Midgard

Just a disclaimer:
1. Do I think many alliances divide the realm and isolate guilds in smaller alliances? Yes, I do.

2. Am I particularly against this new 2-guild alliance? Not really. Its bad as it is but 1 more alliance hardly sinks the ship any further so bless you and have fun.

Now, can I get on with my disagreement with Dozi and Roo here? Thank you.

> if the threat isnt huge news travels slowly

By huge news you mean enemy relic force already in Yggdra? I am strong in belief that many people would prefer having clues to such things happening beforehand.

> interested in the RvR stuff were turning /as off cos they didnt want the
> other rubbish

You guys have such a low tolerance for rubbish? Now I believe I do have memories of what the OBA /as was like and really.. was it quite THAT bad you make it out to be? Was much easier to switch /as off for 15 min. after every failed relicraid, and occasionally when good old Svartalf was in chatty mood again. Have you been in many of them emain and/or defence chatgroups lately? As far as signal to noise ratio goes, old /as was a bloody heaven!

Anyhow, I would like to point you a few posts up to Roo's golden words about being able to co-operate with people you dont like. Yes, there are limits to how much stupididty one can endure.. But consider the price. Roo then goes on to praise he's alliance that is obviously composed of exclusively nice people who get along just splendidly amongst eachother.. while being able to get together 1 fg for RvR, occasionally?!

> but would you want to read through everthing else they typed to find it?

If I -really- wanted my Shakespeare, I would have no choice, would I?

> But to be honest I have no idea what your alliance chat is like now

2-3 times a day on average, Blej announces that he is holding emain cg. Thats about it.

> Dont think Ive ever had one from you though proffesor, are you purely
> an acedemic now? where you been hiding?

Been busy playing my FOTM savage. The one who sent you a tell about Arvakr being attacked by 2-3 fg albs yesterday. The reason I dont do that more often is it makes sense to inform people I know are online at the time, which I establish by doing /who on frontier zones. As yer name doesnt pop up all that often, it was a pure chance I saw you in Svasud yesterday before we moved out.

To Roo:

> Its just a game. But I LIKE the way we deal with people

What makes DAoC different from an IRC channel with trees and tomtes is there is 2 other realms out there yer supposed to fight, providing it all with a purpose and that purpose is war. There is no class in this game representing a social worker, nor is there Red Cross nor is there a legal way of sending exchange students to Camelot on the same server. Society in DAoC is a society of a realm in war or a society confined behind it's two realmgates.

Anyhow, whats yer secret Roo? Ye found a mob that drops benzedrine?

Ottar