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Aeiedil
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- #31
chesnor, when you go for a kill in a zerg you will most likely get zerged. if you escape from the zerg then sommit aint rite with them
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belth
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- #32
Oh my, so can NS & SB... Infact, they can train ALL 6 spec-lines to 30+! Infact, any class that has 2.0x level points, can train 6 spec-lines to 30+... Point=moot.
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old.chesnor
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- #33
Infis get 2.5/lvl. SB and NS only get 2.2/lvl.
Way to go Mythic, I mean, just look at the lvl50 thrust style Dragonfang...How gimped is that for a class with Evade VII </sarcasm>
Infis get 2.5/lvl as compensation because SB get 2h and NS get way cool, really powerfull DDs </sarcasm>
So infis get 2.5/lvl and 6 lines. Oh but wait, DW is gimped right. So thats 5 lines. Oh but look, thrust or slash. (no choice, dragonfang), so we're down to 4 lines.
2.5/lvl and 4 lines to spend it on......
Show me any other class in the game with that much goodness.
Way to go Mythic, I mean, just look at the lvl50 thrust style Dragonfang...How gimped is that for a class with Evade VII </sarcasm>
Infis get 2.5/lvl as compensation because SB get 2h and NS get way cool, really powerfull DDs </sarcasm>
So infis get 2.5/lvl and 6 lines. Oh but wait, DW is gimped right. So thats 5 lines. Oh but look, thrust or slash. (no choice, dragonfang), so we're down to 4 lines.
2.5/lvl and 4 lines to spend it on......
Show me any other class in the game with that much goodness.
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old.Galannor
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- #34
<cough> @ mr. whiner
Yeah, infils, and assassins generally, are strong in 1 versus 1 combat, got a problem with that? Well, group up with a friend and they'll leave you alone in the first place.
There is a reason for why they're assassins, right? They g'darn ought to be able to have a high chance of overcomming the other classes in the game, and without blade-switching, there'd be classes which'd be fatal to attack, or at least a rather risky battle (Healers specifically springs to my mind).
So what? We swap weapons, that's all we can do when we can't even begin the fight with a stealthed attack (PA/BS2)... You got owned because you ran solo, by an assassin (which you should be IMO), and hence you want it nerfed? Don't think so...
Try play an assassin first, before whining about how overpowered they are... For the amount of concentration it requires to play one without doing mistakes (even a minor one will get you killed), and the wait for the right target to come (solo targets, or a couple of low cons, which btw, is also possibly to beat for the rest of the classes in the game, if there's a level advantage/element of surprise)...
You're incredibly biased, not having tried and putting yourself in their shoes or thinking it through.
To make it short: You're wrong, it's a rather balanced class.
NB. No offense intended, nor is it meant as a flame. I'm generally just tired of seeing people rolling/promoting assassins because they (want to) own the zergs in emain, and to read biased posts about nerfing... If anything, the few weaker classes remaining should be improved instead.
Yeah, infils, and assassins generally, are strong in 1 versus 1 combat, got a problem with that? Well, group up with a friend and they'll leave you alone in the first place.
There is a reason for why they're assassins, right? They g'darn ought to be able to have a high chance of overcomming the other classes in the game, and without blade-switching, there'd be classes which'd be fatal to attack, or at least a rather risky battle (Healers specifically springs to my mind).
So what? We swap weapons, that's all we can do when we can't even begin the fight with a stealthed attack (PA/BS2)... You got owned because you ran solo, by an assassin (which you should be IMO), and hence you want it nerfed? Don't think so...
Try play an assassin first, before whining about how overpowered they are... For the amount of concentration it requires to play one without doing mistakes (even a minor one will get you killed), and the wait for the right target to come (solo targets, or a couple of low cons, which btw, is also possibly to beat for the rest of the classes in the game, if there's a level advantage/element of surprise)...
You're incredibly biased, not having tried and putting yourself in their shoes or thinking it through.
To make it short: You're wrong, it's a rather balanced class.
NB. No offense intended, nor is it meant as a flame. I'm generally just tired of seeing people rolling/promoting assassins because they (want to) own the zergs in emain, and to read biased posts about nerfing... If anything, the few weaker classes remaining should be improved instead.
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kale
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- #35
Infiltrators are incredibly difficult to play! im glad we get the 2.5x spec, because we need it! You dont seem to understand that when we kill someone in the frontier we have been stalking that person from anywhere from 10-30mins trying to get lined up to do our PA move (which is difficult btw, and if we dont land it we're in trouble!) or they have just run in a straight line into us so we dont waste an opportunity, also we can't hit anyone in a group otherwise we're dead. There is a kind of cookie cutter template (mentioned earlier) for infils and if we dont stick to this we can be gimped! and not everyone goes for thrust to get dragonfang, some prefer slash. I know 2.5x seems alot but please believe me infils really do need this! Mythic have always stated that infils have been underpowered until v1.5* (thats why they left the "1 shot, still stealthed" bug in pre v1.50) but now we are just about right in power, after all we are assassins! I know it can get fustrating being killed by stealthers (hell, even i get killed by 'em!) but there are a few tricks you can do to lower your chances of being selected as 'prey'. 1) group, 2) when running, zig zag. Please dont keep yelling nerf, i hurts my ears, just roll an Inf and try it!
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old.BJ|Bored
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- #36
just curious is there any other spec line where getting +items allows you to do higher lvl things like you can with evenom?
yes im bored and at work on a monday ;/
yes im bored and at work on a monday ;/
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belth
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- #37
Stealth in a way, for the detection radius calculation and movement speed.
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matax
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- #38
Ohhhh, look - another NERF post !
Heres an idea - we take all the nerf posts and do what they say i.e. we nerf every single class in DAoC. Take away all spec lines/skills/RA's etc etc. Or how about we make every class have exactly the same spec. lines and exactly the same skills.
So all classes are exactly the same, can do exactly the same thing, no one is more powerful at one thing than another, we all stand in a circle and bash at each other until one flukes killing the other because they didn't miss as much (i.e. due to random chance). What an exciting game it would be without have to try and find ways around the problem/tactics to avoid situations etc.
If you think that class is all powerful, and you have a problem with it, then why aren't you playing one? I know 'I won't play class x because it doesn't suit me' etc etc. My hero has a hard time in RvR 'cos of mez - i do not winge nerf mez - just get on it with and try to get around it.
If there were no challenges what would be the point of playing the game ! If you have problems then find something else to do or a way to get around it - the other good post is the one 'i run to the AMG, find it camped, get killed, release, run to the AMG - ad nauseum' - why keep running back there - why not go to the other frontiers ? (mmm thats another post that you could have a good rant about !)
(rant over) Yours almost in jest
Heres an idea - we take all the nerf posts and do what they say i.e. we nerf every single class in DAoC. Take away all spec lines/skills/RA's etc etc. Or how about we make every class have exactly the same spec. lines and exactly the same skills.
So all classes are exactly the same, can do exactly the same thing, no one is more powerful at one thing than another, we all stand in a circle and bash at each other until one flukes killing the other because they didn't miss as much (i.e. due to random chance). What an exciting game it would be without have to try and find ways around the problem/tactics to avoid situations etc.
If you think that class is all powerful, and you have a problem with it, then why aren't you playing one? I know 'I won't play class x because it doesn't suit me' etc etc. My hero has a hard time in RvR 'cos of mez - i do not winge nerf mez - just get on it with and try to get around it.
If there were no challenges what would be the point of playing the game ! If you have problems then find something else to do or a way to get around it - the other good post is the one 'i run to the AMG, find it camped, get killed, release, run to the AMG - ad nauseum' - why keep running back there - why not go to the other frontiers ? (mmm thats another post that you could have a good rant about !)
(rant over) Yours almost in jest
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Pin
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- #39
SB gets 2h, a better 2-weapon spec line, more hitpoints.
And I'm not going to argue the point about NSs being worse off.
Wrong. DW is not gimped (the styles suck, but DW isn't gimped). If anything, CS is gimped now. Any sensible Inf template since epic armour and 1-shot-remain-stealth change has 25-30 DW, so there still is 5 spec lines.
And show me another class in the game which has so few +skill items available. Most people don't realise how few +CS and +env items there are in Albion. In the current patch it is only possible to get +9 in envenom from items at level 50 (some lucky people got a weapon with +env last patch, but those are rare) and that only +8 if you aren't 50 yet (again, it is rare that you'll have the +3 envenom gloves from the Barfog set, so most <50 infs only have +5). As for CS, well I have +3 from items (Jewel of Dark Beauty), and that's it. The only other +CS items available are af70-ish gloves, so you won't find any infiltrators using them.
Now, ask a SB or NS how much bonus to CS and Env they have from items and you'll see why 2.2 vs. 2.5 is less of an issue.
Oh, and nevermind that having 5 lines to spec in and get items for drastically recudes the space you have for +resist and +stat items. Other than heat (11%) and cold (26%) all my resists are below 10% currently (energy of 0% kinda hurts fighting mids).
Now go crawl back into your hole or at least post about something that you have the slightest clue about.
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Pin
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- #40
Oh, and as for the original post about switching weapons. Well, assassins can't reapply poison for 5 seconds after combat, so not having backup weapons for a second, third, etc target would be a serious problem.
Try telling a Cabalist that he couldn't cast a DoT onto a second target without sitting there for 5 seconds first, or that he couldn't cast second one on a target who purged his first.
Try telling a Cabalist that he couldn't cast a DoT onto a second target without sitting there for 5 seconds first, or that he couldn't cast second one on a target who purged his first.
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old.chesnor
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- #41
Pin,
What I do know is that its obvious to most people which are the uber classes in this game and which are the gimps. I have played this game from early open Beta. Seen the rise and fall of the overpowered archer classes. Seen them whine like whiny things, trying to persuade everyone who'd listen they weren't overpowered. They were, they got nerfed. I just happen to believe Mythic went too far, by making assassins more efficient at killing archers (a back door archer nerf) they overpowered assassins.
It's just my opinion. But I look at lowbs running around the realms, see the plethora of young infis in Albion (already the zerg realm) and take that as evidence I am right. Take Thidranki for example, stealth is more or less obligatory. A stealth zerg maybe?
I don't look at this game from the blinkered position of playing 1 class, or 1 type of class. I have played every single class in this game now to around lvl20, some 30 and some beyond that. This is a good game, but it could be a great game if Mythic could balance the classes properly, and not just clumsily create flavour of the month classes (smite clerics, archers, assassins, minstrels, skalds have all had thier moments of uberness) who overwhelm their respective realms and make the game less interesting.
RvR is the endgame of daoc, and if Mythic get it wrong, they create a monster. They've done it. Once all the youngsters having fun in the BGs have lvled up those assassins, it will be a nightmare in the frontiers (despite the fact that >50% will quit). Time to quit or roll an assassin I guess, as anytime I moan about assassins being overpowered, I get shouted down. Oddly by assassins, funny that eh ? (To the sceptics, 1 lvl50 infi with 50 thrust can possibly take down a yellow cons chain wearing tank, now imagine the alb zerg with 3x as many 50thr infia as they have now, thats bad news)
Remember, this is my opinion. I state it here 'cos this is a forum about daoc. I don't think you'll change my mind, but I respect your opinions. Respect mine, although you may think its pants. kthxbye.
What I do know is that its obvious to most people which are the uber classes in this game and which are the gimps. I have played this game from early open Beta. Seen the rise and fall of the overpowered archer classes. Seen them whine like whiny things, trying to persuade everyone who'd listen they weren't overpowered. They were, they got nerfed. I just happen to believe Mythic went too far, by making assassins more efficient at killing archers (a back door archer nerf) they overpowered assassins.
It's just my opinion. But I look at lowbs running around the realms, see the plethora of young infis in Albion (already the zerg realm) and take that as evidence I am right. Take Thidranki for example, stealth is more or less obligatory. A stealth zerg maybe?
I don't look at this game from the blinkered position of playing 1 class, or 1 type of class. I have played every single class in this game now to around lvl20, some 30 and some beyond that. This is a good game, but it could be a great game if Mythic could balance the classes properly, and not just clumsily create flavour of the month classes (smite clerics, archers, assassins, minstrels, skalds have all had thier moments of uberness) who overwhelm their respective realms and make the game less interesting.
RvR is the endgame of daoc, and if Mythic get it wrong, they create a monster. They've done it. Once all the youngsters having fun in the BGs have lvled up those assassins, it will be a nightmare in the frontiers (despite the fact that >50% will quit). Time to quit or roll an assassin I guess, as anytime I moan about assassins being overpowered, I get shouted down. Oddly by assassins, funny that eh ? (To the sceptics, 1 lvl50 infi with 50 thrust can possibly take down a yellow cons chain wearing tank, now imagine the alb zerg with 3x as many 50thr infia as they have now, thats bad news)
Remember, this is my opinion. I state it here 'cos this is a forum about daoc. I don't think you'll change my mind, but I respect your opinions. Respect mine, although you may think its pants. kthxbye.
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old.chesnor
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- #42
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Danya
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- #43
Mythic wouldn't know inter-realm balance if you beat them bloody with it.
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Danya
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- #44
hmm interesting how classes like mentalist and chanter come above minstrel and cleric, yet people scream for minstrel and cleric nerfs but ments and chanters are perfectly well balanced...
Cleric being one of the lowest classes is particularly amusing given how "uber" they are.
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old.chesnor
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- #45
Yeah I noticed that. Could be that alot of Clerics/Minstrels have quit because of smite nerf and See Hidden ?
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Zill
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- #46
Imagine a lvl 50 Inf with Dragonfang and lvl 5 in Dodger resulting in a 50 % chance of evading.
As I've stated in another thread I believe this move is incredibly unfair as it's way to easy in executing. If it had some kind of build up to it then maybe I could accept it, but as it stands I just can not. I just wish that a Lvl 50 Inf with Dragonfang would own up to this fact rather than replying with the 'but you get this' response. And I'm not suggesting SBs should get anymore than what we already have either.
Pin, our 2 handed weapons are very slow (the fastest 2 handed sword I've seen is 4.8 seconds) and do medium damage unless you're a Critblade and even then you ask a CB how they fare soloing against an Inf with DF, and I bet you they will say they lose most if not all of the time. And as for HPs, well mine are 1186 (unbuffed and with Toughness i + Aug cons i) what's yours may I ask and lets see the difference as I'm genuinely interested to know if you have a point here.
As I've stated in another thread I believe this move is incredibly unfair as it's way to easy in executing. If it had some kind of build up to it then maybe I could accept it, but as it stands I just can not. I just wish that a Lvl 50 Inf with Dragonfang would own up to this fact rather than replying with the 'but you get this' response. And I'm not suggesting SBs should get anymore than what we already have either.
Pin, our 2 handed weapons are very slow (the fastest 2 handed sword I've seen is 4.8 seconds) and do medium damage unless you're a Critblade and even then you ask a CB how they fare soloing against an Inf with DF, and I bet you they will say they lose most if not all of the time. And as for HPs, well mine are 1186 (unbuffed and with Toughness i + Aug cons i) what's yours may I ask and lets see the difference as I'm genuinely interested to know if you have a point here.
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Danya
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- #47
See hidden isn't what nerfs minstrels badly IMO, the mez/stun nerfs are much harsher. If I want to pick off solo targets I just run around on speedsong these days, hell I figured it works for skalds...
Clerics leaving cos of smite nerfs seems likely though.
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Pin
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- #48
Hmmm... Spot a discontinuity here?
Actually, it is very easy for a thrust specced Inf to take down a level 50 chain wearing tank solo. The main reasons are surprise and thrust vs. chain bonus. Almost any class can take out a solo tank given a couple of seconds headstart (only true support classes with virtually 0 damage output would have a tough time). Once an infiltrator loses the element of surprise he's going to have a much tougher time.
Since when did Infs have much to do with 'the alb zerg'? Running anywhere near a zerg gets me killed VERY quickly. 1000 hits, crap armour and being on the front line is not a good combination for running in 'the zerg'.
On the other hand, if you are meaning 15 Infiltrators camping a gate in emain, then again, I wouldn't see a problem because firstly you'll know they are there very quickly, and second it only takes 2 AoE nukes to wipe the lot.
Yes, it's a forum, and you can post whatever exaggerated heresay you like, but without experience in playing the class (level 20-30 is hardly anything to go by either) then you should expect that your assumed knowledge isn't 100% accurate in any real, applied situation.
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Zill
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- #49
Originally posted by old.DachraK
Id say no more than 2 poisons/debuffs in order to have a fair chance against infils/assasins. Nerf the bladeswitching!
I don't wanna get purge
In some cases (most particuarly against tank or healing classes like Paladins and Druids) I have to blade switch in order to stand any chance of winning the fight.
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Pin
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Originally posted by Zilly
Imagine a lvl 50 Inf with Dragonfang and lvl 5 in Dodger resulting in a 50 % chance of evading.
Dragonfang is not a high damage style (hamstring is about 30% higher), the only thing that makes it great is the stun, so if you're really worried about that, buy purge and get rid of the poisons at the same time.
Talking about Dodger 5 is also rediculous, as that's 34 RSPs alone. All Infs I know would much rather take IP for 23 and stop Dodger at 2 or 3.
Yes, it's now likely that we get opportunity to Dragonfang in most fights, but SBs also get a stun from an evade (2nd style in chain). Also, even if we evade one weapon from an SB we can still be hit by the other, stopping us using DF. But yes, I love the style, it means I win a lot of 1v1 fights.
Slow? Yes, that's the whole point of them. Slow means they hit hard on the first hit (add the 1.5x damage bonus for being a 2h). That's why Critblades had PA caps of well over 1000 and many could easily 1-shot me before epic armour. But well, that template is pretty much dead after the 1-shot-remain-stealthed fix came in.
Sure. Mine is 1056 (or 1083 if not using playermade weapons - i.e. not likely), which gives you an extra hit, or two poison ticks. Also, I can guarantee that you are either not capped on con or hits items (I'm not either) and you would be closer to 1300 if you were (so not a great comparison of the difference between the classes).
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old.chesnor
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- #51
This is rubbish. For example, I don't need to take a paladin through 50 levels of PvE grind to realise pallys are gimped in RvR. I can read forums, look at stats, look at the Herald. I played all classes (until I got bored basically) because I'm curious, and I like to learn other classes so I can pick the one I most like and fight better against the rest. I don't think its physically possible in the time I have played this game to have 33 lvl50 chars
Please look at the url I posted a few posts back. Top 3 lvl50 RP earners last week, in order.. Infiltrator, Nightshade, Shadowblade.
I can lie, but stats can't. Care to explain those stats to me ?
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Pin
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- #52
Hmmm. How many times do I have to quote Disraeli?
Oh, and if you want to take that list as the be all and end all, Nightshades can no longer be called the weakest assassin, and are only 1.1% worse off than Infiltrators.
But well, as you said, you should probably just roll one up and see what an easy life we do have.
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Danya
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- #53
LOL, as pin says, nothing like stats for lying. Those stats say nothing really in isolation as you present them, they're a snapshot of the current state of the server. They don't represent the class balance adequately as they don't take into account things such as relative amounts of time played, number of players of each class, whether certain classes had a lot of RPs in earlier patches and now get very few or vice versa.
Explained enough for you yet?
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matax
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- #54
Do you believe all those stats politicians quote at us as well
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old.chesnor
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- #55
LOL Silly billy. Look at the page (I presume you did), now down the bottom. It says "Last Week Realm Points"....That means the RP earned LAST WEEK.
You can try to massage the stats as you see fit. I prefer to let them speak for themselves. Either a) Assassins are the best RP earners now, or b) Assassins earn RP the same as the other uber classes but play more than everybody else. I personally don't need any convincing that assassins are now the top dogs, they have stepped directly into the shoes of the archers See Hidden nerfed. One overpowering stealth classed replaced with another. GJ Mythic!
Also remember these statistics are derived from all of the US servers, so glitches and anomalies are minimised (i.e. some US servers have v.low stealth populations compared to others).
All I want to see is true randomness on those stats. Different classes top each week, no pattern, no dominant class type. That will then demonstrate that Mythic has sorted out the class balance and that people make the top of that list on skill and merit, not because their class is uber. But I don't hold much hope tbh, not all the time theres muppets like you who can't or won't even admit there's a problem.
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kale
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- #56
Why would you see randomness? surely "assassin" classes killing more people is correct? also this is all lvl50 assassin classes do, they go out all the time rvr'ing, We practically live in the frontier! also like i said before in order for us to take down a equal con tank we have to line up a PA very accurately, make sure there alone and make sure we take 'em by surprise so we get the first few hits in because we have to get the CD off in order to stun them. i doubt you've played an infil in RvR because to even consider going into the frontier you have to be lvl42+ or else you get owned!
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old.chesnor
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- #57
Assassins don't have any tradition of killing more people, just killing them in a different way to say and Armsman or a Wizard. Basically you play best solo, whereas Armsman and Wizards play best group. The irony is that the mechanics of RvR rewards players who solo (hence assassins, who mostly always solo are top RP earners) while players in fg take an RP penalty. It's ironic because that is the opposite of PvE.
And fyi, any class that goes to frontier @ lvl42 these days will get owned, not just assassins.
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Flimgoblin
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- #58
Actually groups give bonus RPs now...
However assassins get to choose their fights... groups have to go with the zerg or they get steamrolled.
I like that quote so I'll say it again:
"Lies, damned lies and statistics."
However assassins get to choose their fights... groups have to go with the zerg or they get steamrolled.
I like that quote
so I'll say it again:"Lies, damned lies and statistics."
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Pin
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- #59
Hmmm. even been RvR at all recently?
If you are solo, you'll get a max of around 1000 rps for a kill. If you are in a group of 8, each person in the groups can get 300+ rps for a good kill. That's more than twice the rps for the group. 8 people kill 4 people VERY easily (unless they get surprised and get mezzed/whatever) and kill much more frequently than a solo assassin trying to find his solo kills.
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old.chesnor
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- #60
So that explains why the 3 assassin classes are top of the US RP earners last week !!!!
It is all clear now ! </sarcasm>