Mythics new way to make up for imbalances?

[Vodor]

Originally posted by Acun

Can a group of 8lvl50 rr10 kill 32rr1l0in epic. no.

Speak for yourself

Poon

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by mehuge
Your not supposed to be able to kill everything in every situation. It isn't intended to be a solo game at the RvR level for most classes, it's a group game.

I guess illiteracy is a pre-requisite for playing Midgard?
Where the fuck do I even imply that I want to kill everything in every situation?

Casters get interupted, but have range to compensate.

Thanks to det, speed 6 and a multitude of options available to interrupt, including charges which every class has available to them, casters do NOT have a range advantage.

Mele dont get interupted but have no range. Maybe a bit of a simplistic view.

Maybe an utterly false view too.
Look at the successful casters - they're all pbaoe based, what does that tell you?
Here's a hint - there is no range advantage.

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by Amadon


Maybe an utterly false view too.
Look at the successful casters - they're all pbaoe based, what does that tell you?
Here's a hint - there is no range advantage.

I guess ability to derive absolutely false conclusions out of right facts is prerequisite for playing hibernia on excalibur =D
Combat in daoc is all about dps group can dish out vs. dps it can absorb. In the mage department pbaoe and debuffing casters provides highest dps. No wonder people make setups with chanter/mana eld/void eld, then amadon comes and proclaims that only pbaoe casters are successful =D

 

[Acun]

Originally posted by Vodor
Speak for yourself

Poon

Do i claim to speak for any1 else than my self.no.
Do i claim to speak for u.no
Is this mo.yes
Am i allowed to say mo on bw.yes.
Do ppl have to say imo to everything so you understand its theyr opinion.prob.
kthxnpbye.

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by old.Sko
I guess ability to derive absolutely false conclusions out of right facts is prerequisite for playing hibernia on excalibur =D

try work on that literacy thing, k?

Combat in daoc is all about dps group can dish out vs. dps it can absorb. In the mage department pbaoe and debuffing casters provides highest dps. No wonder people make setups with chanter/mana eld/void eld, then amadon comes and proclaims that only pbaoe casters are successful =D

my point was that there is no range advantage in the game, as evidenced by the successful caster groups being based on pbaoe

void elds are not welcome in groups because of their range, they're there to debuff for pbaoe

I'm guessing you're from Mid due to your severely hampered literacy and logic skillZ.

 

[Arnor]

Originally posted by Acun
Do i claim to speak for any1 else than my self.no.
Do i claim to speak for u.no
Is this mo.yes
Am i allowed to say mo on bw.yes.
Do ppl have to say imo to everything so you understand its theyr opinion.prob.
kthxnpbye.

are you allowed to use less "." in your posts.yes

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by Amadon
Look at the successful casters - they're all pbaoe based, what does that tell you?

Take another look and you will also notice they are all from hib, what does that tell you?

 

[Divinia]

Originally posted by hotrat
Take another look and you will also notice they are all from hib, what does that tell you?

TB's pbae grp aint succesful no?

 

[mehuge]

Originally posted by Amadon
I guess illiteracy is a pre-requisite for playing Midgard?
Where the fuck do I even imply that I want to kill everything in every situation?

It was past 2 am im allowed to be illeterate at that time. I took the first sentance out of context

Originally posted by Amadon
Thanks to det, speed 6 and a multitude of options available to interrupt, including charges which every class has available to them, casters do NOT have a range advantage.

Move out of range if your being interupted maybe.

 

[riv]

its bad form that we're being forced to buy yet another expansion to make our classes (speaking of casters) what they should have been from day one.

if they can't be arsed to sort out casters, which is one of the most prominent imballances in the game, then why should we throw more money their way?

i've bought classic, i've bought shrouded isles.. they can't/won't sort out my class unless i buy yet another addon? well fuck that with a stick.

as a dark rm my damage output sucks due to resists, even with 50 dark, capped (+11) skills, pie etc, and a mediocre realm rank, with Aug Acu III, Wild Power II and MotA II.

my root is either resisted or shrugged off by det tanks, so as soon as i hit them once, they've /faced me, run at me (and covering the 1500 range of my nukes does not take long). as soon as i'm within melee range, thats it- /rel.

stealthers.. well i have no defence against anyone with stealth ability. infils, nightshades, scouts, rangers, whatever, makes for one insta-dead caster. as annoying as that is though, i can live with that because assassins are supposed to be able to kill casters.

interrupts, resists and generally low survivability.. its not that hard to address some of this stuff, there have been billions of suggestions levelled at mythic via the team leads, but what have mythic done? well they managed to come up with.. well we'll reduce casting times with artifacts!

wow. i'm stunned. after all this time, they've come up with decreasing casting time by 25%, but making us work our asses off and give them even more money to get it. fantastic. they couldn't have just reduced the cast time cap a tad to increase dps without an addon?

i know this has turned into a whine on my part, but its so irritating. everyone can kill a caster, a caster can kill... a caster and thats about it (from a rm/sm pov anyway)... and all because such simple issues aren't addressed.

interrupts need tweaking
casting speed could be lowered
det could be toned down a little
cc in general could be toned down

basically we shouldn't have to buy a new expansion to make our classes be what they should be anyway :\

 

[cjkaceBM]

Originally posted by riv
its bad form that we're being forced to buy yet another expansion to make our classes (speaking of casters) what they should have been from day one.

if they can't be arsed to sort out casters, which is one of the most prominent imballances in the game, then why should we throw more money their way?

i've bought classic, i've bought shrouded isles.. they can't/won't sort out my class unless i buy yet another addon? well fuck that with a stick.

as a dark rm my damage output sucks due to resists, even with 50 dark, capped (+11) skills, pie etc, and a mediocre realm rank, with Aug Acu III, Wild Power II and MotA II.

my root is either resisted or shrugged off by det tanks, so as soon as i hit them once, they've /faced me, run at me (and covering the 1500 range of my nukes does not take long). as soon as i'm within melee range, thats it- /rel.

stealthers.. well i have no defence against anyone with stealth ability. infils, nightshades, scouts, rangers, whatever, makes for one insta-dead caster. as annoying as that is though, i can live with that because assassins are supposed to be able to kill casters.

interrupts, resists and generally low survivability.. its not that hard to address some of this stuff, there have been billions of suggestions levelled at mythic via the team leads, but what have mythic done? well they managed to come up with.. well we'll reduce casting times with artifacts!

wow. i'm stunned. after all this time, they've come up with decreasing casting time by 25%, but making us work our asses off and give them even more money to get it. fantastic. they couldn't have just reduced the cast time cap a tad to increase dps without an addon?

i know this has turned into a whine on my part, but its so irritating. everyone can kill a caster, a caster can kill... a caster and thats about it (from a rm/sm pov anyway)... and all because such simple issues aren't addressed.

interrupts need tweaking
casting speed could be lowered
det could be toned down a little
cc in general could be toned down

basically we shouldn't have to buy a new expansion to make our classes be what they should be anyway :\

TBH I don't see a whine here.

I see a very justified complaint.

But in reality it isn't the fault of Mythic per se, it's the computer industry as a whole. I can't think of any industry that treats it's customer base with such utter contempt.

Buggy software, buggy hardware, hardware that conflicts with other hardware, software that in no way does what it's advertised etc and we are all supposed to fix it ourselves by downloading the latest driver/bios update/patch.

You know the real irony?

Mythic suing Microsoft about Mythica and having the big hairy ones to make this statement

"We have worked hard for eight years to earn our reputation for producing high quality online games, including games that compete successfully with those offered by the biggest corporations in the world, such as Microsoft," Mark Jacobs, president and CEO of Mythic Entertainment, said. "The Mythic name and registered trademark are the symbols of that reputation and quality, and they represent the goodwill and recognition we have achieved in the computer game industry and among consumers worldwide."

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by Amadon
try work on that literacy thing, k?

my point was that there is no range advantage in the game, as evidenced by the successful caster groups being based on pbaoe

void elds are not welcome in groups because of their range, they're there to debuff for pbaoe

I'm guessing you're from Mid due to your severely hampered literacy and logic skillZ.

Oh thank you great one for enlightening me.
now please spend 15 minutes of your life and examine current state of rvr on us servers, which felt impact of toa.
suddenly you'll find out that groups of dd casters are becoming fotm, which somehow contradicts with your theory.
Please use your unhampered literacy and logic skillZ to come up for explanation of this fact =D
So instead of throwing personal insults (behaviour well suited for a small kid =D ) try to learn a little about game you're playing =D

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by old.Sko
...

(edit: nvm, read the thread)

 

[duact]

my thane can't kill shit. not with spells or with melee. is that fair!?!??!

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by Amadon
I'd say it was a pleasure but you're obviously still lacking aforementioned enlightenment so that would be misleading.

are you stupid? like really?
go read my first post, and second post, and all subsequent posts where I said EXACTLY THAT MYTHIC ARE USING TOA TO FIX CLASS ISSUES INSTEAD OF FIXING THE CLASSES THEMSELVES.
fuck sakes moron
if you're going to try argue with me, at least try make a point contrary to mine.

OPEN YOUR EYES, READ, COMPREHEND

OPEN YOUR EYES, READ, COMPREHEND

when you stop making retarded posts where you indicate your utter inability to comprehend my posts, then I'll stop with the personal insults, until then, get a clue about the language we're attempting to miscommunicate in.

*sigh*
how intelligent.
*sigh again*
read what i posted about - you're saying that all successful casters are pbaoe based because there is no range advantage.
Reply - pbaoe casters deal more damage than DD casters thus people use pbaoe almost exclusivly. On us situation is opposite, thus dd casters are breeding again. And presence of range advantage has nothing to do with it.

PS. I guess you're a bit too nervous fellow ^^ there is no need to become so upset over computer game =D

 

[Rulke-RM]

Originally posted by duact
my thane can't kill shit. not with spells or with melee. is that fair!?!??!

a thane just killed my mentalist in thid

 

[Tyka]

Heh, we all know the game is not fully balanced, and really Mythic is doing all they can to fix this.

What the biggest problem is in my opinion is that here in Europe, we're so much behind on patches, for example it took them 3 weeks to go from patch 1.63-1.64 in US (the major savage nerf), yet we're still in the same old patch trying different tactics and do everything we can to be able to win these battles.

Things happen fast in US, even though classes are not 100% balanced, they get new things more or less each 2-3 weeks at max, so they always got something to look forward to, even if its not a class nerf or class boost.

Here, we got 4 months in between patches, where we have to live with the bullshit, wish they could just transfer the whole Excalibur server to US somehow, i'd pay 10£ more / month for that.

 

[K0nah]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
ofc tanks dont like it - they still wanna have easy mode like the last 1 year or so...

...and casters want easy mode like they had it for the first year :great:

hib casters still do fine, the one and only reason they still do fine is GP tho... 3 relics help alot also, as does the superb utility of hib support classes ofc.

mythic moved teh balance too far to tanks favour agreed, but its not that far off tbh and the current situation almost exactly matches the situation tanks suffered before det/resist buffs/aom/ip in terms of survivability and fun-factor. but for sure det5 should be removed and i'm sure it will be.

btw its not det that stops a mage grp being effective its the 16/24% resist buffs+det combo.

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by old.Sko
[Byou're saying that all successful casters are pbaoe based because there is no range advantage.[/B]

in the current version of the game yes

Reply - pbaoe casters deal more damage than DD casters thus people use pbaoe almost exclusivly.

having played the most powerful ranged damage dealing caster (enchanter) in the game, as well as a pbaoe class, I believe that my opinion on the matter holds more weight than yours. If you think there's a range advantage, you're playing a different game to the rest of us.

On us situation is opposite, thus dd casters are breeding again.

This just disproves everything you say. PBAoE will always do more damage than ranged damage until they change the delve value, as yet, the delve values of PBAoE are far higher than DD's, and higher than bolts which have a myriad of 'features' which make them very situational. The emergence of DD casters on US servers cannot thus be due to their having more damage than PBAoE casters, since they don't.
Regardless of the reason why DD casters are emerging on the US, and regardless of whether or not that is relevant to the experience we will see on Euro servers, the fact remains that Mythic are attempting to fix casters with TOA and not by addressing the class issues themselves.

And presence of range advantage has nothing to do with it.

There is no range advantage currently, perhaps TOA helps with added cast speed allowing casters to get more spells in before being interrupted and thus negated until what little range they had is nullified.
You have not presented a single argument proving that there is a real range advantage for successful casters in this game. Nor have you presented any argument stating that Mythic are NOT trying to fix class balance issues with TOA .

PS. I guess you're a bit too nervous fellow ^^ there is no need to become so upset over computer game =D

I'm not upset over a computer game, I'm irritated with idiots who refuse to comprehend even the most simple of concepts.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by mehuge
Move out of range if your being interupted maybe.

This statement is so stupid I won't even deign to answer it properly.

 

[old.Zoyster]

Originally posted by Garbannoch Nox
as a compensation mez duration should get shortened across the board from 1:10 min atm to like 30-40 secs or so which would result in an effective mez duration of 10-25 secs depending on resists and distance to mez center. Determination was introduced at a time when casters ruled; this time is long gone and det is now a reason why you dont see any caster groups except for hibs one who can make up for the lack of determination with GP.

ofc tanks dont like it - they still wanna have easy mode like the last 1 year or so...

me n outlaw have been running mage groups for years, with our in-game mates

About balancing-- its true, alot of us know the game quite well, but I hate to say it, I don't think any realm is outright over-balanced. The action is good, no-one is bitter....

 

[old.Zoyster]

Originally posted by lac_desariel
maybe play for fun and enjoy your clas, i been a wizard from day 1, i thought about eldric but nahhh im a wizard, i thought about merc or zerk but nah i have FUN on a wizard, some you win some you get ganked bad

^^

 

[hotrat]

Originally posted by Divinia
TB's pbae grp aint succesful no?

Ok there is a handful of wizards who are succesful but compared to the number of elds and chanters.... my point stands i think

 

[necrofill]

Originally posted by Acun

Can a group of 8lvl50 rr10 kill 32rr1l0in epic. no.

try see DHs video.. they kill 60 albs and some of them was rr7 like lac, the pbaoeing icewizzy in it!!

edit: and "only" 3 RR10L10 rest RR10Lx if i remember right

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by Amadon

having played the most powerful ranged damage dealing caster (enchanter) in the game, as well as a pbaoe class, I believe that my opinion on the matter holds more weight than yours. If you think there's a range advantage, you're playing a different game to the rest of us.

ahh, hard to master and complex in interface and tasks performed caster class. your opinion is certainly holding more weight.

This just disproves everything you say. PBAoE will always do more damage than ranged damage until they change the delve value, as yet, the delve values of PBAoE are far higher than DD's, and higher than bolts which have a myriad of 'features' which make them very situational. The emergence of DD casters on US servers cannot thus be due to their having more damage than PBAoE casters, since they don't.

Lets take you're point to extreme - imagine mythic introduces special spell for enchanter which delves 5000 damage, with cast time of 3600 seconds. Will this mean that this special spell will do more damage than anything seen on battlefield in typical fg vs fg ecounter ? =D amount of aoe interrupts introduced with toa makes box tactics quite hard to perform.

Regardless of the reason why DD casters are emerging on the US, and regardless of whether or not that is relevant to the experience we will see on Euro servers, the fact remains that Mythic are attempting to fix casters with TOA and not by addressing the class issues themselves.

There is no range advantage currently, perhaps TOA helps with added cast speed allowing casters to get more spells in before being interrupted and thus negated until what little range they had is nullified.
You have not presented a single argument proving that there is a real range advantage for successful casters in this game. Nor have you presented any argument stating that Mythic are NOT trying to fix class balance issues with TOA .

I kindly ask what class imbalances where fixed (attempted to be fixed) with toa ? interrupts are still there , mythical range advantage you're trying to find in my posts will be present only in frontiers where map layout will provide more "milegates", heal/damage ratio is even more horribly unbalanced - we're back to the times where healers couldnt keep up with damage dealt, whine from stealthiers about stealth lore items is filling the boards etc etc. only ability i can think of that should be baseline spell - group cure disease.TOA has not fixed anything in a way that more classes became "wanted" in rvr, it just changed fotms like introduction of spellcraft did, etc.

I'm not upset over a computer game, I'm irritated with idiots who refuse to comprehend even the most simple of concepts.

If i allowed myself to sink to your level i would've recommended you go and purchase a tool for opening locks and dont take board blabber so serious =D

 

[finbahr]

Originally posted by bracken_woodman
Agree with that..hib casters have a much better time of it than casters from other realms.

so we should we are the casters realm as mid has the best tanks

 

[Amadon]

Originally posted by old.Sko
ahh, hard to master and complex in interface and tasks performed caster class. your opinion is certainly holding more weight.

thanks for indicating your utter lack of knowledge in this area and thus proving my point

Lets take you're point to extreme - imagine mythic introduces special spell for enchanter which delves 5000 damage, with cast time of 3600 seconds. Will this mean that this special spell will do more damage than anything seen on battlefield in typical fg vs fg ecounter ? =D

dps of that = 5000 / 3600 = 1.38 ish delve value dmg per second
dps of pbaoe = 330 ish / 2.5 = 132 delve value dmg per second
dps of spec nuke = 220 ish / 2.8 = 78.6 ish delve value dmg per second

the point you're trying to make is wrong despite your useless example, since pbaoe has a cast time of 2.5 sec, and most spec nukes have a cast time of 2.8 sec, so in actual fact you've totally missed my point and aren't taking it anywhere except to your imaginary fantasy world where you think you have a clue.

amount of aoe interrupts introduced with toa makes box tactics quite hard to perform.

lol
cluelessness has reached a new high

I kindly ask what class imbalances where fixed (attempted to be fixed) with toa ? interrupts are still there , mythical range advantage you're trying to find in my posts will be present only in frontiers where map layout will provide more "milegates", heal/damage ratio is even more horribly unbalanced - we're back to the times where healers couldnt keep up with damage dealt, whine from stealthiers about stealth lore items is filling the boards etc etc. only ability i can think of that should be baseline spell - group cure disease.TOA has not fixed anything in a way that more classes became "wanted" in rvr, it just changed fotms like introduction of spellcraft did, etc.

caster dps has been increased, and faster casting times reduces the impact of interrupts, +range combined with faster casting times helps provide a range advantage, although I still believe that's minimal but time will tell, also the insane rate of mana consumption has been somewhat mitigated by power fields, although where that will end up is still to be seen, items negating CC are available which helps hybrids, grapple will be very much in demand, which again helps hybrids
i really wish you'd get a clue about the bullshit you're spewing before ..er..spewing it

If i allowed myself to sink to your level i would've recommended you go and purchase a tool for opening locks and dont take board blabber so serious =D

Firstly, someone with such a severe lack of intellect could never hope to dream to raise himself to my level, and secondly... don't choke on your hypocrasy

 

[finbahr]

Originally posted by old.Zoyster
me n outlaw have been running mage groups for years, with our in-game mates

lo yeah 30-40 mates at a time

 

[old.Sko]

Originally posted by Amadon
thanks for indicating your utter lack of knowledge in this area and thus proving my point

dps of that = 5000 / 3600 = 1.38 ish delve value dmg per second
dps of pbaoe = 330 ish / 2.5 = 132 delve value dmg per second
dps of spec nuke = 220 ish / 2.8 = 78.6 ish delve value dmg per second

the point you're trying to make is wrong despite your useless example, since pbaoe has a cast time of 2.5 sec, and most spec nukes have a cast time of 2.8 sec, so in actual fact you've totally missed my point and aren't taking it anywhere except to your imaginary fantasy world where you think you have a clue.

lol
cluelessness has reached a new high

point was - toa introduces a lot of gtaoe/pbaoe stuff (including insta-cast), which will cause box to scatter. yes, pbaoe would've done more damage if someone allowed it to be cast.
Example:
Zone of unmana
point blank area effect shout that penalizes the casting time of enemy casters
set on a 5 minute timer
the casters right hand glows blue when hit by it.
20 second duration
700 radius
when cast it interrupts the caster
seems to be somewhere between a 20% and 40% debuff on enemy casters speed
does not break mez/root
icon does NOT grey out, so you really dont know if its readily available
- Xetal
level 1 banelord ml ability,
level 8 sojouner ability Forceful Zephyr - summons pet that drags enemy to GT
level 5 stormlord - Mental Siphon - power draining storm
dazzling aray doesnt stack, but stacking end draining/power draining clouds = teh win Nov 23
- Columbos
Do i have to continue or you see now that anything not scattered will get all kinds of interrupting, powerdraining etc stuff ?
I understand that new concepts are hard to grasp for you, but please do try.
And yes, yes, you have mastered playing enchanter that's an awesome achievement, you can be truly proud of yourself =D It did require hard work,knowledge and insight but finally you found icons for quickcast, heat debuf, baseline dd, pbaoe, baod, rp, mcl2, moc, purge,mana bottle and placed them on your first quickbar. After doing more research you filled second bar with self buffs. Sure you had to perfect your findings and spent unknown time in emain macha pressing buttons on first quickbar and switching sometimes to second when your group stopped for rebuffing. All this allowed you to perform simple arithmetical operation in the paragraph above and inform the world about your infinite wisdom =D

caster dps has been increased, and faster casting times reduces the impact of interrupts, +range combined with faster casting times helps provide a range advantage, although I still believe that's minimal but time will tell, also the insane rate of mana consumption has been somewhat mitigated by power fields, although where that will end up is still to be seen, items negating CC are available which helps hybrids, grapple will be very much in demand, which again helps hybrids
i really wish you'd get a clue about the bullshit you're spewing before ..er..spewing it

hooray, when i started reading this part i thought that you finally talking something sensible. But alas. Lack of information on the subject played a bad joke with you. You'll very pleasantly surprised - how much caster dps was increased - think mythic dont know about half measures =D
Cc reduction - perfecter ability gives 7% bonus (basically they gave sorc buff to every realm) dont know if it stacks with sorc buff. insane rate of mana consumption is mitigated yes by power fields and +mana pool% items. Grapple is ... what a surprise available on pure tanks too. What helps hybrids here - grappled character is still able to cast spells.

Firstly, someone with such a severe lack of intellect could never hope to dream to raise himself to my level, and secondly... don't choke on your hypocrasy

spoken by a true chanter =D
let your mind rest in piece my friend =D

 

[Nazghul-]

Originally posted by finbahr
so we should we are the casters realm as mid has the best tanks

After the savage nerf you will have best casters AND tanks.

grats