Mythic must be complete idiots

[Arthwyr]

Its not like dragonfang never gets evaded or incase of fighting a tank blocked/parried. And ofcourse you always have purge. Without dragonfang SBs would be superior to infiltrators.

-ability to use a 2 hander if you spec as a critblade
-LA styles > thrust/slash styles
-LA speccing increases damage since you already swing 2handed 100% of the time
-RAs like duelists reflexes increase the damage output on LA while it only increases the swing change for both weapons on an infil
-You dont have to spec to 50 on 2 lines to get decent styles and double swings
-More hitpoints
-slash vs leather > thrust vs leather (infils sacrifice slash and decent anytime styles + have to spec to 50 just to get dragonfang bec rest of thrust line is mainly crap part from 2 good positional styles )

so if you remove dragonfang from the line an infiltrator would be like a nightshade without the DDs and the mouse size wich is not completly unvaluable.

Oh and a smart infil would hit 3 dragonfangs and then start on the cs evade chain so you get in some free high damage styles even after the stun goes even at 34cs the df df df hamstring leaper would be alot better then just 3-4 dragonfangs.

 

[Piotr]

Originally posted by Pin


I hate fighting nightshades myself. Always the same story, nightshade sees me, nightshade DDs me, nightshade screams like a girl until his zerg comes to save him

Hmm sounds like you pin? still remember when i owned you at mmg and you used ip and Fa, when you had like 5% hp left your 5 infil/scout friends came and killed me. =)

 

[belth]

Originally posted by jox
Retarded fuckers at Mythic, no balance at all.

Asking for balance when you're always fully buffed? Ha.

 

[Belomar]

Originally posted by Piotr
Hmm sounds like you pin? still remember when i owned you at mmg and you used ip and Fa, when you had like 5% hp left your 5 infil/scout friends came and killed me. =)

The definition of "owning" someone usually involves actually killing the person, too.

 

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by Arthwyr

Oh and a smart infil would hit 3 dragonfangs and then start on the cs evade chain so you get in some free high damage styles even after the stun goes even at 34cs the df df df hamstring leaper would be alot better then just 3-4 dragonfangs.

Actually i prefer the:
hamstring+leaper+hamstring+leaper (stun wears off)+rib separation
or
hamstrin+leaper+hamstring+hamstring (stun wears off)+leaper if u dont have 44CS
after the 1st DF
Much more damage.

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Arthwyr
Its not like dragonfang never gets evaded or incase of fighting a tank blocked/parried. And ofcourse you always have purge. Without dragonfang SBs would be superior to infiltrators.

-ability to use a 2 hander if you spec as a critblade
-LA styles > thrust/slash styles
-LA speccing increases damage since you already swing 2handed 100% of the time
-RAs like duelists reflexes increase the damage output on LA while it only increases the swing change for both weapons on an infil
-You dont have to spec to 50 on 2 lines to get decent styles and double swings
-More hitpoints
-slash vs leather > thrust vs leather (infils sacrifice slash and decent anytime styles + have to spec to 50 just to get dragonfang bec rest of thrust line is mainly crap part from 2 good positional styles )

<snip>

In your nice listing you forget:
2.5x skill points as opposed to NS/SB 2.2x
RA skill Vanish (as opposed to Shadowrun - sheez)

Less damage per hit with both weapon when using LA then if each weapon was used alone, it starts at 60% of full damage with a 0.5 increase every spec point in LA where as DW hits for full(I belive) damage for both weapons (or what ever weapons connect).


DR only increases 3% of base damage - that is like 1.5dps per swing. (asuming base damage is 50)


So I really fail to see what grounds Infils have for whining.

 

[belth]

50+3 (RR)+11 (items)+6 (DR1) in DW in regards of chance to swing offhand.

That gives 35% chance to swing offhand from speccing, 12.5% chance from being level 50 and 25% base chance. So, 72.5% chance to swing offhand.

Seeing as I've 2 weapons, both 99 quality 16.5 dps ones and am not RR5, they work like 99 quality 16.2 dps weapons, giving them effective DPS of 16.038. Now the offhand swings only 72.5% of the time, giving it another modifier, which drops its effective DPS down to 11.62755 (over time). This gives me combined DPS of 27.66555. If I were to swing the offhand every turn, I'd have 32.076 effective DPS. 27.66555 divided by 32.076 is 0.8625, which is 86.25% damage.

SZ, 44 in Left-axe base, +3 from RR4 and +11 from items, has 60% base damage, +22% damage from just spec and +7% from items/rr bonuses. 60+22+7 is 89% damage. 89%*16.2 dps*99 qua*2 is 28.54764 effective DPS.

I've spent 285 more spec-points (looking at just 1 spec) and even need RAs to even get close to SBs damage output, unstyled. Your run-of-the-mill SZ has 44 Axe/44 LA and I have 50 thrust/50 DW, which translates to me having spent 570 more points for equal unstyled damage.

2.2 spec points/level gives you 3252 spec points and 2.5 spec points/level gives me 3706 spec points. The difference is 453 points, which still leaves me (the guy with more spec-points) 117 spec points short.

Any intrinsic flaws?

Edit: small addition to SB part.

 

[Aussie-]

I think it's time for you to start collecting rps, all this reading cant be good. you'll have more posts then rp's soonish

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by jox
I wish I could change to infil, sb is a joke comparing to infils.

Retarded fuckers at Mythic, no balance at all.

It's worrying that a shadowblade will do the same damage with his left axe that my 'tank class' gets with dual wield...
(of course since they usually have a buff bot the merc gets toasted)

Infils must be scary

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Xandax

Less damage per hit with both weapon when using LA then if each weapon was used alone, it starts at 60% of full damage with a 0.5 increase every spec point in LA where as DW hits for full(I belive) damage for both weapons (or what ever weapons connect).

You're only looking at unstyled base damage there, and for (untrained) LA it is indeed crap compared to (untrained) DW, that's not where LA shines. Increased damage output for LA comes mostly from the haste effect of swinging both weapons every round, which will boost damage 25%. It's this haste applied to style damage that makes LA superior. DW and CD also get such a haste effect, but because we don't swing both weapons every round it isn't as effective (maximum - if using 3.5 and 2.2spd weaopns - of 9% average haste if untrained DW, 15% haste with 50DW, and still only 17% with 70DW).

Basically, training DW doesn't scale damage up as well as LA.


I believe that the actual style bonus damage for LA styles is NOT very much greater than style bonus damage in other lines when using 2 even speed weapons, but seeing them 25% hasted every swing gives them a major boost.

Originally posted by Xandax
DR only increases 3% of base damage - that is like 1.5dps per swing. (asuming base damage is 50)

3% of base damage, 6 trains of LA. 3% extra swing chance, 6 trains of DW.

Originally posted by Xandax
So I really fail to see what grounds Infils have for whining.

Not whining

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by belth
Any intrinsic flaws?

Just a couple. Most LA users will use a 16.5dps (or maybe 16.2) mainhand and a 15.0dps offhand, so you should reduce the SB unstyled damage a little.

And well, for a 50DW specced inf, I would say you would be better off using a Dirk (not Long Dirk) in your offhand for a better haste on styled attacks, increasing your styled damage somewhat, but reducing unstyled.


Anyway, points remain that trained LA beats trained DW unstyled by Belth's figures, and styled by mine.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Pin

And well, for a 50DW specced inf, I would say you would be better off using a Dirk (not Long Dirk) in your offhand for a better haste on styled attacks, increasing your styled damage somewhat, but reducing unstyled.

Just to put some numbers to this.

Using 16.5dps, 3.5spd GR mainhand, 16.5dps, 2.9spd Long Dirk offhand, you get an average swing speed of 3.2, giving a 9.375% haste, with your 72.5% DW chance, that gives a 6.8% boost to style bonus damage over time.

Using a 15.0dps, 2.2spd Dirk offhand you get an average swing speed of 2.85, giving a 22.8% haste, so effectively a 16.5% boost to styled damage over time.


So you'd trade a few imbue points and 0.5% unstyled damage (and a little less predictability of swing delay) for 10% extra styled damage.


If lower specced in DW, the trade isn't as clear-cut, but I believe it is still more worthwhile in terms of damage output for ANY level 50 inf to use a Dirk offhand, which is not something I had really thought out until now, so I'll be making my own Dirk soon and will be coming for all you SBs with MORE POWER!!!!

 

[belth]

Dirk's 3 points less imbues than a Long Dirk, not as bad as I thought. Loss of 4% resists or so, not bad.

 

[fedexx]

I fully agree with Jox, wtf have they done.. Midgard aint the fucking meele realm.. other realms got classes that does as much dmg as Midgard classes, and then they got the magic/archer ranges that mid does not have..

 

[fedexx]

Originally posted by falcor
bah aas far as im concerned nerf shadowblades more, i rarely see solo shadowblades, there r usually 5 of u, no skill no guts......nerf em to cows

Tosser, have u seen how many infils there is around?

on every SB there is 3 infils..

 

[froler-mid]

Originally posted by fedexx


Tosser, have u seen how many infils there is around?

on every SB there is 3 infils..

128 lvl50 sbs on mid/excal

81 lvl 50 infils on alb/excal



:doh:

(doesnt bother me thou, just more rps for meh!

 

[belth]

Originally posted by fedexx
I fully agree with Jox, wtf have they done.. Midgard aint the fucking meele realm.. other realms got classes that does as much dmg as Midgard classes, and then they got the magic/archer ranges that mid does not have..

Get that idiotic notion out of your head.

Spiritmaster
Runemaster
Bonedancer
Healer
Shaman
Warrior <- melee
Thane <- melee
Berserker <- melee
Savage <- melee
Shadowblade <- melee
Hunter <- melee
Skald <- melee
SI: 7 out of 12 are melee classes -> 58% are melee-classes
Classic: 6 out of 10 -> 60%

Wizard
Theurgist
Sorcerer
Cabalist
Necromancer
Friar
Cleric
Armsman <- melee
Paladin <- melee
Mercenary <- melee
Scout <- melee
Infiltrator <- melee
Reaver <- melee
Minstrel <- melee
SI: 7 out of 14 are melee classes -> 50% are melee-classes
Classic: 6 out of 12 -> 50%

Enchanter
Eldritch
Mentalist
Animist
Druid
Warden
Bard
Hero <- melee
Champion <- melee
Blademaster <- melee
Ranger <- melee
Nightshade <- melee
Valewalker <- melee
SI: 6 out of 13 are melee classes -> 46% are melee-classes
Classic: 5 out of 11 -> 45%

That's what makes you the melee realm, not some idiotic notion of supposedly having to do more damage in melee.

Sure fine, start doing more damage in melee... When your casters are utterly incapable of dealing any substantial damage to even-cons.

 

[yog-hurt]

Friar? not melee? ahahaha

 

[belth]

Originally posted by yog-hurt
Friar? not melee? ahahaha

Secondary healer. Could count bards as melees too then

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by belth


Secondary healer. Could count bards as melees too then

If you see a friar stood there healing then it's obvious he's had too much ale and is on the wrong quickbar

 

[Arthwyr]

Dirk's 3 points less imbues than a Long Dirk, not as bad as I thought. Loss of 4% resists or so, not bad.

Ok from what I have heard the Imbue points are bugged in the way that its not the dps that determines the imbue points but the material typer eg: all arcanium crafted 99qual weapons have 28 points.

OFCOURSE this is a rumor so don't blame me for blowing up a weapon thoug ha dirk ain't that expensive and its more then worthwhile to try if this is correct.

 

[Arthwyr]

Actually i prefer the:
hamstring+leaper+hamstring+leaper (stun wears off)+rib separation
or
hamstrin+leaper+hamstring+hamstring (stun wears off)+leaper if u dont have 44CS
after the 1st DF
Much more damage.

My spec is
34 CS (+17)
50 Thrust (+10)
33 Envenom (+16)
35 DW (+17)
35 Stealth (+17)

Only style that has a greater damage output then my dragonfang is leaper so 3xdf hamstring (stun goes) leaper is optimal for me. But since I have a full respec left I'll probably go for a

44 CS
50 Thrust
30 Envenom
31 dw
32 stealth

soon as our class loses IP and when i do rely more on PA + CD + SS and the CS evade chain. The defensive bonus on hamstring also seems to count for alot more then the medium bonus displayed in the style menu.

 

[belth]

Originally posted by Arthwyr


Ok from what I have heard the Imbue points are bugged in the way that its not the dps that determines the imbue points but the material typer eg: all arcanium crafted 99qual weapons have 28 points.

OFCOURSE this is a rumor so don't blame me for blowing up a weapon thoug ha dirk ain't that expensive and its more then worthwhile to try if this is correct.

That was fixed I think, Tilda I think it was who posted about it few weeks back

 

[belth]

Originally posted by Pin


If you see a friar stood there healing then it's obvious he's had too much ale and is on the wrong quickbar

True Just counting by Mythic's definitions.

But just to make Yog feel better, let's see how the %'s go with Friar as melee.

SI: 8 out of 14 are melee classes -> 57% are melee-classes
Classic: 7 out of 12 -> 58%

Mids still get to keep their status as melee realm

 

[Arnor]

And ofcourse you always have purge.

Ehm, no. once every 30mins IF you spent 10rsps on it

LA speccing increases damage since you already swing 2handed 100% of the time

LA spec doesnt increase dmg when fighting with a 2h wpn

You dont have to spec to 50 on 2 lines to get decent styles and double swings

You dont either

slash vs leather > thrust vs leather (infils sacrifice slash and decent anytime styles + have to spec to 50 just to get dragonfang bec rest of thrust line is mainly crap part from 2 good positional styles )

mm, que?

Here you have the edge with being able to use a wpn that their armour is vulnerable to, which they dont.

Oh and you didnt comment on the fact that they have to evade-comeback-frosty gaze, while you have to evade-dragonfang (if your specced 50thrust that is)

Having trouble seeing how a dude with THIS many chars:
Arthwyr Paladin RR4.x
Gawain Infiltrator RR7.x
Taara Scout

can type BS like that.



On the other hand, on the whineboards on ign, all infils do is whine&moan about how they get owned by sb's, so maybe theres a lake of uberness the sb's here have yet to find (la)

 

[fedexx]

Originally posted by belth


Get that idiotic notion out of your head.

bla bla..

 

[fedexx]

Originally posted by belth


Secondary healer. Could count bards as melees too then

´

haha, that does 300-350 dmg with a big ass stick ^^

 

[belth]

Originally posted by fedexx
´

haha, that does 300-350 dmg with a big ass stick ^^

Could say the same about shaman, casting AoE-dots

 

[mirak_naijmi]

Instead of getting suprised of how much bullshit there is on this forum i start getting suprised of myself getting suprised every time i read albs comments. You guyz really try to prove ureself equal when you know you are better made tthan us, not becuase we are n00bies but because you got mamma mythic on youre side. And then...20% bonus cant be denied. Is the rumor ive heard about relics getting reseted in 1,56 true? I have heard different stories from everyone, so whats true?

 

[belth]

Are you trying to say LA is worse than DW? Or what? Whining about the spec-points?