Mythic-GOA ty for ruining a game

[Arquest]

Well i guess it took not much effort to change a game from being superb to a really ridiculous system.

I assume you must wonder how a game with 30.000 online players in 2003-2004 turned to 12.000 nowdays.

Well lets see step by step what u have done....

Introduction of ToA+ML : Many players left due to be bored to xp new items or gather ML experience

Introduction of New Frontiers : Now why do that?? u had a perfect terrain with none complaining why do so?? Just to say u evolved the game>>>??
u could have add some more zones and leave the old ones there

Introduction of Hasteners: Ok here we go. Why not help classes go faster? hmm maybe cause that is one reason u have created some classes like skald or minstrel

but lets go further here hastener is not enough what else do we need??? SPEEDWARPS.. oh yes ofc . so here is the formula. we got a caster with 10% increased range and casting in an incredible rate and damage and we expect any class to catch em up? but then u might say why not roll another char? Because some of us decided to join this game for the one class we like and if you still get our money is cause we still love this class

but what are u doing for all those of us? U have changed a game to a caster game and thats it. where are the lessons u have taken from the past?

U created savages-bonedancers and then savages where steamrolling everything well nerf em
then u created warlords-bainshees..... again the same thing just for selling catacombs then nerf em ...

well why dont u simply post as what r the class u want us to play ? or if u can ever be fare with all classes and i mean do not abstract them the single advantage u have given em and so they r unique. Imagine a zerker not been able to use Bear mode due to a BearWarp .

And u have done this constantly to all realms some times favouring one and others the other realm. Had we found balance in old frontiers? i say Yes.
Even hib group purge was not so problem

And i assume many will join the thread and flame me or call me a whiner

Well ppl try to see that i only say the facts and try to be realistic.

Really for the older players they will remember how things were.

Maybe they can understand some of my concerns.

For the new comers.... well just as a hint ROLL A CASTER

But then why should i trust u and join Warhammer if u will make again the same thing there?


P.S i give more exmples from mid class since i only played mid and dont know too much abt other realms-classes.

Ty for your patience reading the post

 

[Pirkel]

Bye!

 

[Arquest]

not leaving yet got friends in here

 

[Talsar]

Okay read your post and i agree with some of the aspects of your post.

I have played since beta, and i have seen many many many changes in game, yes some for the worse, however also some for the better.

Some of the things i miss that were taken away;

Auto pull Pgy Gobo's in Lyonesse (only reason albs went there).. taken away in patch 1.49?

Smite cleric nerf ... taken away patch 1.51

However TOA for all it's evil it did bring some new and exciting gameplay to daoc. Yes it made it easier to gain level 50 in 1 week (FOP etc), but then they nerfed that.

I guess that i am saying is that for all it's woo's and poo's daoc is fighting a constant battle to make everything level for all. Of course only an insane person would ever expect a "perfect" balance... even Mythic was stunned at the launch of TOA when us normal gamers found out to make ourselves near invinsible in game (rvr) using various TOA items. So even Mythic dont know how the game will turn out until it is played.

The trouble and success of online games, is there is no end, there is no "game map" of how the game should be played from start to finish (standard games you buy off the shelve and play solo on a ps2 etc).

With this in mind the game evolves into various formats, yes some of them are unfair to some, but overall benefit the majority. I am not making excuses for Mythic as they have nerfed a few of my toons over the years, and although i wish they had not, they also nerfed a few toons that i dont have, and i guess those people felt the same.

Over all my conculsion is this, over time all characters will have to change to meet the changing needs of the game and also to meet new expansions etc.

Can you honestly put your hands on your heart and say you would pay for Camelot (classic) without any expansions i.e. no Si, TOA, Cata, NF, Housing, DR. As you would be playing a game that is over 4 years old. And those who have short memories will forget the agro Smite Clerics used to get for being "overpowered" back then

I agree with the "old frontiers" although yes i really used to love the old maps... If you can remember there was only really one battlefield ... emain.

Yes there was encounters in alb, mid... but unless a realm wanted the relics OR DF, there was no reason to leave irvr in emain... and getting there was one royal pain in the butt, you buy a necklace, put it on wait 5 mins on porter, zone though, forget to put your main necklace back on, run out of PK, towards mile gate, get killed by a stealther, /release, buy another necklace put it on and wait 5 mins.

But on the other hand we now have instant RVR, you are always in same "zone", teleportation, hasterners, hookpoints, easier to access siege, towers, etc etc... These were introduced to ensure that the average joe to wants to do more in iRVR then kill people has missions to take care off.

So in a sence i do miss the old battlegrounds, but feel the new ones offer more choice to the average gamer.

Okay going to hit Submit Reply as i have no idea how much i just typed. But this is an interesting debate.

 

[Pirkel]

Okay going to hit Submit Reply as i have no idea how much i just typed. But this is an interesting debate.

Oh it is?

I assumed it was another "this game sucks I'm outta here" thread guess I'll have to like ... read the opening post now

Nerf

 

[Vladamir]

Thats right, you heard it here first !. HASTENER NPCS KILLED DAOC M8S.

Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!

 

[Arquest]

i would prefer a constructive debate rather than making fun of posts.

Ty talsar for ur reply

 

[MaCaBr3]

Thats right, you heard it here first !. HASTENER NPCS KILLED DAOC M8S.

Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!

 

[>.< Pooned]

I agree with some of ur views although (tou oti eisai kakomoiris k klegese generally)

but the points that i agree with u is the OF and the classes overpowered features not the nerf cause if u make something u cant nerf it because you feel sorry for what u make.

oh and.............

Ibtl

 

[Things]

Okay read your post and i agree with some of the aspects of your post.

Can you honestly put your hands on your heart and say you would pay for Camelot (classic) without any expansions i.e. no Si, TOA, Cata, NF, Housing, DR. As you would be playing a game that is over 4 years old. And those who have short memories will forget the agro Smite Clerics used to get for being "overpowered" back then

I agree with the "old frontiers" although yes i really used to love the old maps... If you can remember there was only really one battlefield ... emain.

Yes there was encounters in alb, mid... but unless a realm wanted the relics OR DF, there was no reason to leave irvr in emain... and getting there was one royal pain in the butt, you buy a necklace, put it on wait 5 mins on porter, zone though, forget to put your main necklace back on, run out of PK, towards mile gate, get killed by a stealther, /release, buy another necklace put it on and wait 5 mins.

But on the other hand we now have instant RVR, you are always in same "zone", teleportation, hasterners, hookpoints, easier to access siege, towers, etc etc... These were introduced to ensure that the average joe to wants to do more in iRVR then kill people has missions to take care off.

So in a sence i do miss the old battlegrounds, but feel the new ones offer more choice to the average gamer.

Okay going to hit Submit Reply as i have no idea how much i just typed. But this is an interesting debate.

im sure port used to be 15 mins, once missed it becaus i had no necky, then missed it again because i stealthed and went afk (back then it didn't port u stealthed) so i waited 30 mins, and im sure i died not long after i ported

-About making it a caster game-

Tbh i though this for a long time, and although i have 2 (almost 4) lvl 50 casters my self (wizzy, theurg and sorc&cabbie close to 50), i rarly play them in rvr. as soon as NF came out, it was a caster game, these days its mainly end up with stand offs, casters vs casters and basicly picking off anyone who comes within range, mainly tanks trying to kill the casters that move forward to kill some other caster etc etc etc, and so it goes on and on.

i loved OF, and although i thought it needed updating, i think NF was abit over the top. i like the idea of the towers, but getting boats from one place to another (i like irvr tbh, more fun then getting rolled after spending 10 mins on a boat, its like OF porting, only with boats .

-PURE CLASSIC-
I loved classic, and i loved SI, but i would gladly play classic if thats all it was, no SCing, no alc, no necro/bds/tics/reavers/sav/vamp and all the other added classes These days theres hardly anyone in classic, catas, or SI zones leveling, they just seem so wasted. i still like leveling in classic, and have many nice spots i like to kill at.

Anyhow, i could go on and on, but i cba to type anymore, and im sure u cba to read anymore

 

[VegetaFH1]

Yes yes.. stop typeing.. my eyes hurt, but anyway

Honestly im not much of an RvR soldier, more of an RvR leader, and over the past years ive played the dammit game ive seen and noticed changes that have bin annoced and ones that have not bin announced

The one we all know.. and adore is OF to NF, probably the biggest stepping stone next to TOA cus lets be honest here (even tho SI was the best outta them all) DR and Cata are.. pretty much pointless, the introduction to Instances was just a bloody kick in the head, but ill admit.. i use them just as uch as anybody, cus its the quickest and easyest way to level, it destroyed leveling a charactor.. and now, after all this time since ive started (1 year after beta closed) they start giving out free levels... ok, seriously, thats taking the piss,

Point blank, if ur an Average player in this game.. get out, cus A) ur driving down this game and B) u dont contribute at all
The average "GAMER"'s attauide is, oh.. i dont give a shit i can do whatever i want on the net no biggie nobody gives two shits, sorry but if anybody came upto me with that id take a malet and beat them to a bloody pulp with it (IRL NOT ingame, cus thats just sad) i guess my point is that the average player is what is killing this game, cus everything in "in-line" for anybody to be able to play it.

Got to give a hand to mythic tho, they started out with a fabulas game.. then destroyed it, BUT!! it is still the best game ever for me mainly cus of the friendly community i was born into on/in this game, that being prydwen/hib, great bunch of ppl i love every singel one of ya

BUT YE, back on topic kinda.. i prefered OF to NF, mainly cus.. well, i new the mid frontier like the back of my hand (158 hairs.....what? i got bored ok..lol) and as for porting... ill never miss the spam over /as saying "GLASNEY INCOMING!!" yes in big block caps, i think i did it once or twice too lol

God dammit i miss the REAL mile-gates.. not the fake peaces of shit they put up at "argomon" or whatever the fuckin name is, anyway now its my turn to shut up cus this is way to long for ANYBODY to stay awake to.. <shrug> laterz

 

[Toggers]

Point blank, if ur an Average player in this game.. get out, cus A) ur driving down this game and B) u dont contribute at all
The average "GAMER"'s attauide is, oh.. i dont give a shit i can do whatever i want on the net no biggie nobody gives two shits, sorry but if anybody came upto me with that id take a malet and beat them to a bloody pulp with it (IRL NOT ingame, cus thats just sad) i guess my point is that the average player is what is killing this game, cus everything in "in-line" for anybody to be able to play it.

maybe its cos its still early but is that a serious statement?!

 

[Ryuno]

maybe its cos its still early but is that a serious statement?!

I was actually wondering the same thing....

 

[Bracken]

i would prefer a constructive debate rather than making fun of posts.

Ty talsar for ur reply

The thread title, not to mention the general tone of your post, doesn't really cry out "Constructive debate in here!" does it?

 

[Darzil]

I was actually wondering the same thing....

It can't be, you couldn't possibly be an 'RvR leader' with that attitude.

Darzil

 

[Raven]

while i agree with some of your points regarding casters i think you have gone over the top a little, there are plenty of ways to counter casters these days. one of the reasons i quit my hero was it was getting to easy to win - pointless to play without the challenge, other reason was ofc as a visual solo 99% of full groups would zerg you (even though they ofc never add or zerg meights!!!1!) toa introduced a new aspect of the game, not as if its hard to get MLs/artifacts even when toa first came out. i actually thought it was fun anyway, constructive pve.
As for NF, its great, so many more options, before it was, ok emain is a no go as a solo visual, odins zerged, nobody in HW, muck around with an alt or log. now if one place is zerged or ruined by full groups there are countless other places to go. no forced choke points, people will ofc camp bridges but you dont have to go there. the only thing i miss really is the pvp in DF, was always good fun.
i still think casters are OP but most people who play casters are so clueless they are RP cows.

 

[Phake]

cant understand ppl saying its a castergame when the groups out are running balanced tank/castergroups..

i would say that the hardest group out playing these days are random roleplayers ... when they are running 3bm 1hero/warden 1bainshee 1bard 2druids. .. and thats hardly a caster group .. for albion id say mebbe a more caster orientated group is the best .. but for mids and hibs id say balanced/tank groups ..

there are so many ways to stop casters from casting spells .. i mean there are loads of interupts .. and if casters are interupted they are worthless .. so stop whining about it beeing a castergame these days .. coz its not.

 

[OohhoO]

/agree with original poster

 

[Celestino]

The game isn't really a caster game, but casters were those gaining most from toa.
When i remember back before SI, I always come to the conclusion that casters were built to do massive damage whenever they were free. But not enough damage to kill a tank sprinting at them.. for that they had CC like root mezzes or stun to avoid melee when they were fast enough and managed to get the spells thru.

This changed a lot with all the addons and patches, and I don't really like were it went

Toa brought casters back after SI, but as with pretty much everything they went over the top
Too much abilities, especially too much strong game influencing abilities, via artefacts and MLs, NF added to it...
Nowadays nearly every medium to high rr has quite a list of matchturning abilities that are up most of the time due to low timers

I think that there are so many abilities that mythic has lost any overview they may have had at some point. Especially as a lot of RAs are only overpowered in certain situations like MoC when used with lifedrain. Not much of a problem with moc bombers or nukers.. So nerfing moc wouldn't really be fair now would it ?

Mythic made and is making a lot of mistakes in their development especially as they try to address player whine making everyone happy without looking at the complete picture...
Especially in the last few patches this could be seen, instead of creating a role in grps for certain classes they improved the classes, making them stronger and stronger one by one ...

I stopped WoW coz of this development style, patching to keep ppl playing, improving one class to match another already too strong class so the next class can be made a lil bit stronger in the afterwards patch etc

I think the brakes are the most important game developing tool. Nerfbats to keep the game in line with its design, inside the boundaries of good gameplay...
and while mythic made everything right in the beginning, having caps for pretty much everything they failed since ToA(I do like ToA and the pve concept was a great idea in the beginning) and they will fail again with warhammer coz they now know that earning money has nothing to do with good gamedesign but with giving little timmy everything he wants.

 

[Muylaetrix]

Point blank, if ur an Average player in this game.. get out, cus A) ur driving down this game and B) u dont contribute at all
The average "GAMER"'s attauide is, oh.. i dont give a shit i can do whatever i want on the net no biggie nobody gives two shits, sorry but if anybody came upto me with that id take a malet and beat them to a bloody pulp with it (IRL NOT ingame, cus thats just sad) i guess my point is that the average player is what is killing this game, cus everything in "in-line" for anybody to be able to play it.

wow, get a clue

 

[Tempra]

comedy show?

Seriously i can only laugh at you, for several reason 1)kid factor 2)whine factor list is long. Dont like the game quit it. You simply wrote to mutch BS in a few lines than i could come up with in a lifetime.

Game has NEVER been balanced, Understand one thing ALL players simply cant play a stupid arse game simple as that. It does not matter if you hand them a rr11 whatever class they die as i dont know what. It is not just to walk out and buy a stupid game and becomming god in it.

I mean look at old LAW, Nolby pride etc, Think they were they skilled or all had superior classes?

That mythic develop daoc is quite understandable, Daoc is getting old very old new mmorpgs are around the corner if they want players to remain in there seats they must get new stuff in game with that comes both good and bad.offcourse to Mythic the main reason in money why in hell would they otherwise have a company?

That some ppl are unhappy and all damn nagging with game was so mutch better before no ToA no this, no that....So why is there not 3000ppl on classic servers if now game is so good?

Alot cry and bitch until they get it after that they just feeks it, ever thought about you played daoc sence beta and maybe just MAYBE a game and i mean ANY game perhaps not is so damn thrilling,fun,exciting after 10 years?:eek2:

Not to mention all great ppl i met within the daoc community, After sun there is rain.


Everquest was probably the best 3d game at start, How many expansions do they have? And it is not mythic that jackass the game what they are doing in just to expand there game.

If volvo stopped develop there design etc back in 1980 who would buy it now?
What you adress is just the way the world (real world) work, not the one you got ur nose stuck in to....

Or should we all just remain in the old shit? hey windows 2.11, no color tv, old cars, shitty houses.

Dont know about you but i love both my car,windows,tv and house.


So bottom line Mythic needs money to running the show, pay there workers, develop new games, so they expand there current..ye some like it some not.Atleast you have a game to play considering that YOU rent space on there server and rights to play there so in practice they would just close down all server and laugh in your face think about that hahaha


/ChubChub - King of merlin

 

[Bladze]

Started going down hill when they activley made it easier to run two acounts on one comp imho, more and more buff bots apeared and they laughed because people were paying twice as much as they should be to play the game. New content was balanced with buff bots in mind since so many had them. RVR was a virtual waste of time without one paticulary for stealth classes. Pl'ing your alts, farming high level mobs enc's etc is not the way the game is ment to be played but because of the £££ signs its the way it went. Now they bring in classes with self buffs to bring back the very people they drove away......Ironic?

That said I still enjoy the game, at the end of the day the people you spend your time with are what make or break, it for me atleast.

 

[Puppet]

cant understand ppl saying its a castergame when the groups out are running balanced tank/castergroups..

i would say that the hardest group out playing these days are random roleplayers ... when they are running 3bm 1hero/warden 1bainshee 1bard 2druids. .. and thats hardly a caster group .. for albion id say mebbe a more caster orientated group is the best .. but for mids and hibs id say balanced/tank groups ..

That group is hard because of 3 reasons:

a) Very high RR on all their chars on average, giving them a good RA-edge against most other groups
b) Very good players who are used to playing with eachother
c) Most enemy setups are focussed towards surpressing enemy-caster groups. So 3 tanks on the loose give u alot of trouble as most of ur team will be casters with max 1 Bodyguard.

 

[Kraben]

Im a oldtimer from way back in beta days.

I welcome the changes been done over the years as a natural development of the game. Alot of nice changes has been made to make the gaming experience lots more enjoyable.

ToA? Altho maybe a grind it certainly brought alot more depth and complexity to the game of which was needed, imo, at the time. Now its been made alot easier which in effect helps the newcomers alot as it doesnt take alot to ToA your characters. Nice move that.

NF? One of the best changes done to the game imo. I just cant see how people can justify zerging Emain and having huge standoffs at the milegates. One would argue that there are lots of standoffs at say bridges but NF offers alot more than that and most of all - an opportunity to go around said bridge. This was not possible with MG's. There are so much potentiel in NF compared to OF for all sorts of RvR. My only grudge against NF would be the relic system as I do miss the oldschool relicraids

Games needs to evolve naturally in order to keep its playerbase, DAoC have done this splendidly and regarding ex. balance issues across the realms lets face it: there will always be "op'ed" classes (op'ed under the right circumstances) as there are a difference in how each realms classes work! Imo the balance is quite even and have always been (ok maybe not warlocks prenerf ) - but there will always be some who stand out from the crowd. You cant have it 100% even cause in that case you would need 100% identical classes across the realm. Where would the beauty and complexity be in that though? Tbh I feel that DAoC is pretty spot on regarding balancing issues.

Its also natural that every game will lose some of its players over the years, no game can keep up the steam continously. Another side to the decreasement of player population is WoW, we all know that. I see WoW as the first real contender as a worthy opponent to DAoC. Other MMPORGS have come and went again where WoW is here to stay.

As games will evolve over time so will its players. Its also only natural that the view on DAoC and perhaps games in general changes over the years. Just maybe DAoC has served its time for you and its time to seek out new challenges?

Mythic having ruined DAoC? I certainly think not.

 

[Bladze]

Agree with Kraben, devs didnt ruin the game, the players did, Alot of the ppl i know who quit did it not because TOA was a grind but just bcus of the way the comunity went when it came out. Artis camped by alts 24/7, arguments over drops etc. Low player base? when was the last time anyone took time out from farming or RVR to help a noob? For genuinely new players its very hard to get into DAOC without the uber guildmates and BB's. Theres virtually noone to grp with below 20 since /level and not many xp in hardmode anyway since they can PL.

 

[MesS°]

well put Kraben.:worthy:

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Ive enjoyed most of the changes to the game since 1.38, even when my toons got hit with nerf bats Ive stuck through it. How anyone can say its gone downhill due to development is beyond me, liek all things in life, we move on, things improve or get boring.

Take OF, yes it had its merits, one was simplicity, 90% was flat and boring, keeps were small and dull, knock on the door, kill the lord, job done. So NF came out and put more fun into it, boats, water, seige etc etc gave new aspects to warfare. Yes its got its flaws (like how a 1 ton rock or 12' spear can hit a player and he says "Only a flesh wound, come back and finish me ya bastards!"), or the tedium thats only matched by LGM crafting in taking a level 10 tower down, but the landscapes are more appealing, the terrain is a challenge, and theres more variety than just "look, mids, gank!".

TOA is great, yes I will agree they were too hard, but now thats been fixed, which caused other problems in the community, by fucking over the economy. Some MLs are over powered, the trials took too long before we all had fop/foh/ML9, and have now been made easier. Again the maps are great, the underwater thing is too if not a little buggy at times. But all the new toys once we had them were fun and added spice to things, no more bang bang youre dead, now bang bang zap kpow zap boing zazoom whoosh ya dead.

PvE has always been frowned upon by forumites, who dont represent the masses in anyway tbh. But even thats been made daftly easy, free levels, camp bonus, and worst of all power leveling. The latter has done more damage to the game than most realise, it took away the ability for players to group with strangers, to learn their new class before they went to battle in the frontiers, the experience of killing things on their own, making new friends and allies. I look at my friends list these days and see the names of all those I leveled at H, snowcrabs and lair with and feel sad that those days have gone, I PM most of them now and Ebay4thew1n answers me "wtf are u geeza?".

The things is this game is for everyone, not just us elders, but new players too, but because we got greedy and demanded PL, uber RPs, OPd abilities Mythic gave us those and killed off the fun. RvR aint endgame, its something you do when you are done PvEing, yes more fun, but still only part of the game, and as a whole, we have all killed the potential of the new blood getting in. The things we asked for in the past, we got, but didnt think about the long term consequences.

Blaming TOA for people leaving is rubbish, the same time SWG came out, and lots migrated, often leaving sour grapes behind saying the game made them leave. Then WoW finished the job, and WHO will be the next to claim the last remnants. This game is what we make it, dont like things about it, move past it.

 

[Tor_nada2004]

ehh

Like in every game , its all about money , they make add-ons like ToA , Catacombs , DR , so we buy them so they get money , theyr rly trying to improve grafic , but in the same time , ruining game ....

 

[eggy]

Introduction of ToA+ML : Many players left due to be bored to xp new items or gather ML experience

Introduction of New Frontiers : Now why do that?? u had a perfect terrain with none complaining why do so?? Just to say u evolved the game>>>??
u could have add some more zones and leave the old ones there

If it wasn't for TOA + NF, I for one would have left the game. Running APK -> AMG -> MMG -> MPK etc gets old.

If you don't like it, you know where the door is.

 

[Varna]

What if he doesnt know where the door is?