Minstrels! Send this to Mythic!

[costaslev]

And when it comes to my opinion about you, well to say it kindly, i ever only see you add on soloers who fight other soloers, then run off when you get a 1on1 yourself. therefor, i do not like you.

Forced to post again. I should type a few pages of questionmarks. But I ll just say this
THIS IS A PURE LIE.
I don't add. This is not me. You would be right not to like this person. You are right not to like me as well, you don't have to. But you can't say I do this when I don't.
And about running, I ll admit that. If I see I lose and I can run I do. As others would vanish. Why don't you talk about people that have a quickbar full of macros like /rude /lough /rofl /dismiss and spam them all in your face when you are facing the ground? That's something that really worth some discussion.
And since I probably hit number 1 on a lot of people's N00B list after all this let me ask a question for all who believe that there is no way for a RR1 assassin to kill a RR4 minstrel. Anyone remembers what assassins get at 39 or even 35 stealth spec after the last patch? And would that be a nice toy to use against someone that moves like a turtle with a broken leg? I don't know if everyone that has killed me has used that to be honest but add this to the equation and give me a break. To make things clear I am not blaming anyone that has won using that. Well done and keep using your abilities well. That's what you should do.
Last thought. We are all a nice company here trying to get things better for our class and say what problems we encounter. I am saying how hard things are for me as well and I am given some advice. That's nice really, but I am wondering why hasn't anyone thought I might be playing unbuffed since I have such a louzy performance. Bah, no matter you would be wrong anyway. After all someone has to be N00B No1.
Cheers

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

Forced to post again. I should type a few pages of questionmarks. But I ll just say this
THIS IS A PURE LIE.
I don't add. This is not me. You would be right not to like this person. You are right not to like me as well, you don't have to. But you can't say I do this when I don't.

You are Hydor, are you not? The minstrel in undyed GoV and red/whiteish guild emblem?

 

[GrivneKelmorian]

yeah comparing a stealthing healer with a minstrel because of the mezz is a good point... /sarcasm off
and u said to give a minstrel good ae mezz the sorc mezz would have to be at normal cast range? so then we would have 2 mezzers but no insta ae like the other realms? that aint fair at all.

That wasnt my idea what so ever

my idea was: Give minstrels an insta ae mezz equal to healers/bards and take down sorc mezz to normal range.

 

[Drucken]

minstrels as a group interupter is far greater then any of the oposing realms due to all its instants. and the fact that they can get a style such as ametyst makes it uttterly silly to whine for a boost.
ok group power regen and hp regen might look a bit gimpish in rvr and speed might not be what it once was.
maybe its time to spec music a bit lower and get higher weapon spec to get that littlel extra they seem to be missing.
a viable spec and some decent class knowledge is all it takes to make it viable in rvr.

So minstrels are great group chars who dont need boosts? And yet, nobody uses them in a group....

That wasnt my idea what so ever

my idea was: Give minstrels an insta ae mezz equal to healers/bards and take down sorc mezz to normal range.

then it was just a missunderstanding

 

[Puppet]

While Im not an expert in playing the minstrel-class, I do fight quite abit against them.

* Stealth + banelord = overpowered. Perhaps its balanced for your playstyle Gamah, but I dont look forward to a minstrel mezzing me, then banespiking for his buddy 'Lolyougotperfed' the infiltrator.

* Perma-pet. While the idea of a charmed blue+ on a stealther-class is already ridicilous, atleast it was offset by a trade-off --> aslong you got a pet you cant (reliably) run with Mach5, stealth and get the ablative. Perma-pet means basically you suddenly get alot more utility (to interrupt for example) or more damage (from the pet). I really fail to see how even more utility is balanced on a stealther.

* Boosting DD-damage by acuity/changing resist-table. I think both skalds and mincers need this. However, better to put a resist-piercing buff in their instrument/song lines. That way u dont get the hussle of hybrids asking for it. It should stay on body-resists tho.

* The Remedy / WS-debuff seems another big no-no to me. You dont have debuffs like an assassin, but you got chain-armour, loads of utility and such.

* Boosting the ablative.. You want to make sure you take *really* 0 damage from melee during Warguard? The ablative easily takes 500~ damageoff a typical fight with a minstrel, isnt that enough ?

Only way I can see your 'demands' to be fair, is when your class looses stealth. Already its stupid how much stuff they cramped on minstrels, and have stealth. Adding more, and keeping stealth? No thanks. Not because the minstrel is OP on itselves atm, but because it can group with other stealther(s).

 

[Tuthmes]

Only way I can see your 'demands' to be fair, is when your class looses stealth. Already its stupid how much stuff they cramped on minstrels, and have stealth. Adding more, and keeping stealth? No thanks. Not because the minstrel is OP on itselves atm, but because it can group with other stealther(s).

Agreed!

 

[Eruptix]

be careful tho

give em Banelord and 1500 range insta DD's or amnesia and they will be worse then BDs..

so be careful with the suggestions,but giving em bl would be nice help tho

 

[Gamah]

While Im not an expert in playing the minstrel-class, I do fight quite abit against them.

* Stealth + banelord = overpowered. Perhaps its balanced for your playstyle Gamah, but I dont look forward to a minstrel mezzing me, then banespiking for his buddy 'Lolyougotperfed' the infiltrator.

* Perma-pet. While the idea of a charmed blue+ on a stealther-class is already ridicilous, atleast it was offset by a trade-off --> aslong you got a pet you cant (reliably) run with Mach5, stealth and get the ablative. Perma-pet means basically you suddenly get alot more utility (to interrupt for example) or more damage (from the pet). I really fail to see how even more utility is balanced on a stealther.

* Boosting DD-damage by acuity/changing resist-table. I think both skalds and mincers need this. However, better to put a resist-piercing buff in their instrument/song lines. That way u dont get the hussle of hybrids asking for it. It should stay on body-resists tho.

* The Remedy / WS-debuff seems another big no-no to me. You dont have debuffs like an assassin, but you got chain-armour, loads of utility and such.

* Boosting the ablative.. You want to make sure you take *really* 0 damage from melee during Warguard? The ablative easily takes 500~ damageoff a typical fight with a minstrel, isnt that enough ?

Only way I can see your 'demands' to be fair, is when your class looses stealth. Already its stupid how much stuff they cramped on minstrels, and have stealth. Adding more, and keeping stealth? No thanks. Not because the minstrel is OP on itselves atm, but because it can group with other stealther(s).

Well yes, any minstrel is the perfect stealth partner, which ofc I don't see often as most of my time is spent solo. But we are sub par 1v1 these days, and also we are subpar zergvzerg which is apprantley what mythic balances for. I think to balance for stealth we should get a warden type job with spec shield, this doesn't increase our survivabilty against duel weilders too much but gives us a chance. Mythic have the perfect opotunity to get minstrels back in groups with this 3rd ML line, it will be interesting to see what they try..i have a sneaking suspision that we will get perfector though.

 

[Drucken]

* Perma-pet. While the idea of a charmed blue+ on a stealther-class is already ridicilous, atleast it was offset by a trade-off --> aslong you got a pet you cant (reliably) run with Mach5, stealth and get the ablative. Perma-pet means basically you suddenly get alot more utility (to interrupt for example) or more damage (from the pet). I really fail to see how even more utility is balanced on a stealther.

although im against the idea of being able to use other songs while charming as this would indeed be op i remind you that hunters insta spawn their pets and dont have to, like we would, run around with it till they find an opponet

* Boosting the ablative.. You want to make sure you take *really* 0 damage from melee during Warguard? The ablative easily takes 500~ damageoff a typical fight with a minstrel, isnt that enough ?

actully i dont think ive ever experienced my ablative taking 500 damage off, the slow is too slow and a fight between stealthers is generally quick

* Stealth + banelord = overpowered. I dont look forward to a minstrel mezzing me, then banespiking for his buddy 'Lolyougotperfed' the infiltrator.

This is a perfect example of what we minstrel players dont like. We cant get a boost because we are seen as a support for other stealthers? Back in the old days when I was going to make my first char I thought, I want something that wont be dependent on grouping but still be fun in groups: Minstrel.
Now all other stealthers are getting their little toys and the reent we cant get new fun stuff is because that would make our buddies too powerful? Comeon

 

[Puppet]

although im against the idea of being able to use other songs while charming as this would indeed be op i remind you that hunters insta spawn their pets and dont have to, like we would, run around with it till they find an opponet

Hunter pet is indeed like that, however its very limited in level, and it only does 1 thing: melee. They dont proc, style or whatever. And the damage from it is quite modest. Compare that to some other yellow-con mobs u find in the frontier, who can disease, cast, stun/mezz, heal etc. Big difference here.

actully i dont think ive ever experienced my ablative taking 500 damage off, the slow is too slow and a fight between stealthers is generally quick

If the minstrel uses Warguard and Battler, combined with IP, fights arent exactly quick. I think incase of rebalancing spells, you also have to look at the more extreme cases, then it becomes OP. Take a look at Shield of Immunity for example, on itself it was pretty balanced, unless u add ML9-pets and/or MoC+Lifetap on sorcerers. Suddenly it becomes stupidly OP.

This is a perfect example of what we minstrel players dont like. We cant get a boost because we are seen as a support for other stealthers? Back in the old days when I was going to make my first char I thought, I want something that wont be dependent on grouping but still be fun in groups: Minstrel.
Now all other stealthers are getting their little toys and the reent we cant get new fun stuff is because that would make our buddies too powerful? Comeon

Interesting, so basically you're saying you wanted the best of both worlds, now with a (major) boost? AFAIK minstrel got some love aswell in the past. The level 50 DD, the ablative (both new features which the minstrel didnt have at the beginning). Minstrels got argueably the best ML-path available to stealthers (Warlord).

Thing what annoys me about the minstrel-class is that in 1 way I can see what ur coming from if u want love, but thats from a 1vs1 perspective, or even to be more wanted in groups. But on the other hand, you cannot add much stuff which doesnt become OP when you add an infiltrator-buddy with both of 'you' stealthed.

 

[Commandment]

Last thought: paladins will get a self STR buff. Can we get a self Char buff? (I really loved that idea) No? Ok, maybe as RR5 ability then?

i was thinking maybe a resist peirce buff like heretic?

oh and <3 puppet! xD

 

[Golly]

or access to caster artis like cs and BoZ so we can actually get the %ages capped- that would be a minor boon at least

 

[Dorimor1]

I just don't get this thread. I mean I'm not trying to have a go at you or anything but this is just basically saying 'now I want xxxx so everyone please send this to mythic so I can get what I want' :<

I mean its a bit selfish I bet you'd say the same thing if I said 'I want the rp-cap increased in thidranki to 2l5 so please everyone send this to mythic, kkthnxbye'...

 

[DrunkSkunk]

I just don't get this thread. I mean I'm not trying to have a go at you or anything but this is just basically saying 'now I want xxxx so everyone please send this to mythic so I can get what I want' :<

I mean its a bit selfish I bet you'd say the same thing if I said 'I want the rp-cap increased in thidranki to 2l5 so please everyone send this to mythic, kkthnxbye'...

its things mincer lacks, real problems..

 

[Gamah]

I just don't get this thread. I mean I'm not trying to have a go at you or anything but this is just basically saying 'now I want xxxx so everyone please send this to mythic so I can get what I want' :<

I mean its a bit selfish I bet you'd say the same thing if I said 'I want the rp-cap increased in thidranki to 2l5 so please everyone send this to mythic, kkthnxbye'...

...

Don't think I can find the words to reply.

 

[Vandar]

I've played mincers and fought mincers. The comment made earlier about the class only being valid with timed abilities up, lol, try fighting the weird and obsessive assassins who disappear when SOM and Malice/Battler are down, or the full groups who disappear after they've RA dumped on you in a fight. Its an issue with lots of classes.
In a straight fight, if you're struggling to win against a low rr assassin, THEY prob used some timed ability.

 

[scarloc]

I mean its a bit selfish I bet you'd say the same thing if I said 'I want the rp-cap increased in thidranki to 2l5 so please everyone send this to mythic, kkthnxbye'...

HELP THIDRANKI!!!!!!!!!!!!

btw agree with some of the mini stuff, remember them being a mainstay in group setups, now most of them rolled alts and just play those instead :|

 

[Kinetix]

While Im not an expert in playing the minstrel-class, I do fight quite abit against them.

* Stealth + banelord = overpowered. Perhaps its balanced for your playstyle Gamah, but I dont look forward to a minstrel mezzing me, then banespiking for his buddy 'Lolyougotperfed' the infiltrator.

* Perma-pet. While the idea of a charmed blue+ on a stealther-class is already ridicilous, atleast it was offset by a trade-off --> aslong you got a pet you cant (reliably) run with Mach5, stealth and get the ablative. Perma-pet means basically you suddenly get alot more utility (to interrupt for example) or more damage (from the pet). I really fail to see how even more utility is balanced on a stealther.

* Boosting DD-damage by acuity/changing resist-table. I think both skalds and mincers need this. However, better to put a resist-piercing buff in their instrument/song lines. That way u dont get the hussle of hybrids asking for it. It should stay on body-resists tho.

* The Remedy / WS-debuff seems another big no-no to me. You dont have debuffs like an assassin, but you got chain-armour, loads of utility and such.

* Boosting the ablative.. You want to make sure you take *really* 0 damage from melee during Warguard? The ablative easily takes 500~ damageoff a typical fight with a minstrel, isnt that enough ?

Only way I can see your 'demands' to be fair, is when your class looses stealth. Already its stupid how much stuff they cramped on minstrels, and have stealth. Adding more, and keeping stealth? No thanks. Not because the minstrel is OP on itselves atm, but because it can group with other stealther(s).

Another one using his large experience on mincers to comment lol stop making me laugh

 

[Drucken]

the biggest issue seems to be that minstrels can group with other stealthers.
things that could be boosted without affecting the companion:
Higher DD damage or less downtime
Higher WS (actully had a afight against a rr5 ns that evaded 75% of my attacks and only damage I had was DDs)
Less resistance on flute mezz (this does affect grouping but seriously, if a mezz that takes 5 seconds to cast and requires an instrument it shouldn't be possible for it to be resisted 5 times in a row (on different targets) and ruin fights.
Maybe some kind of defensive proc that is only self target.
Making the rr5 ability able to mezz players but maybe for half the duration -resists (affects grouping but i think its a valid request)

 

[Belomar]

Another one using his large experience on mincers to comment lol stop making me laugh

Whereas you on the other hand have 200k RPs on your Minstrel, that doesn't constitute "large experience" either. Puppet at least has considerable RvR experience, and he makes fair points.

 

[Gamah]

Whereas you on the other hand have 200k RPs on your Minstrel, that doesn't constitute "large experience" either. Puppet at least has considerable RvR experience, and he makes fair points.

Do you disagree with the points I raised then?

 

[duact]

remove stealth from mincers

 

[Zeadia]

i'll stick by my mincer to the very end

i do agree with many sugestions about how to improve this class and i do disagree with some...

...but the wierd thing about this class, even though they are sub-par in 1 vs 1 fights i still REALLY enjoy playing my mincer! i dont think this is just me either, many people i know who have mincers say they are great fun to play

i do hope that mythic will boost mincers in some way for them to be more group friendly, but tbh even if they dont i'll still be rvr'ing with him 9 times out of 10

oh and whoever is getting pwned by a rr1 NS, mate you're doing something a bit wrong but as long as we enjoy it, wtf else matters

/end of lecture

 

[Belomar]

Do you disagree with the points I raised then?

I agree in principle with your points--my first L50 rolled on release was a Minstrel, and so I have decent, if outdated, experience on the class. However, I also think Puppet's point about Minstrels having to be considered in relation to their role in the stealthwars is valid--Minstrels already have an extremely strong position as a "support stealther".

For myself, being a person who prefers grouping over soloing/duoing, I'd prefer if Minstrels lost stealth in favor of groupability boosts. However, many people rolled their Minstrels with stealthing in mind, and so this is not a viable path.

 

[Void959]

I think as several people have said, the big problem it that minstrel is so damn effective in stealth duos/zergs, there is no doubt the minstrel is extremely OP here. Unfortunately the majority of us who don't enjoy playing like are directly effected by it, we can't get a boost unless they do as well. Thats why I think the spec lines should be adjusted so minstrels can get quite a lot more group strength or utility only by dropping stealth entirely.

However, many people rolled their Minstrels with stealthing in mind, and so this is not a viable path.

I don't think that's true at all. Certainly the majority of minstrels these days play as stealthers, but thats not because the majority rolled as such, rather it's an effect of the gradual nerfs - most of the minstrels who intend on mainly grouping have given up and played other alts, or converted to stealthers in desperation.

 

[Kinetix]

Whereas you on the other hand have 200k RPs on your Minstrel, that doesn't constitute "large experience" either. Puppet at least has considerable RvR experience, and he makes fair points.

Greetings defender of the helpless
yes i have 200k on rps on mincer ty for giving the trouble of looking but matematical speaking 200k>0rps on mincer experience. As for RvR experience i play with 12 chars so yes its hard to have one high rr toon.

And has gamah said ( and he´s a RR9 mincer) mincers need some changes, and has for what i said based on the 200k more then his mincer "0" i can pretty well confirm it :kissit:

Btw do you have to get burned to know that fire burns? Or by looking at others you learn?