Minstrel, why?

[Vladamir]

But i'd sooner have an interesting game than a mundain one which u put down after a month of playing...

Not only that, but Mythic/Goa would have no income other than game sales, what with the free month and all

 

[Minimac]

i wud quite happily lose stealth from my micner for 2 hand spec or shield spec

 

[Sobek]

i wouldnt

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

You write good posts and have many valid points but I dont think you even read the post you quoted from me

I said that minstrels power arent the problem, its the utility that they give to the infils that in 99% of the cases follow them around like puppydogs. A solo mincer I can usually kill even with the crapgear I have atm, but its just that to find a solo mincer is highly unlikely. The ones you may find solo are high RR ones that can actually play their class and those I cant touch (that has nothing to do with classoverpowerdness but that they are played right).


Understand that this thread was not about minstrels being 1v1 gods, solo walking certain death or anything like that.
The thread was about the stupidity of giving one out of three realms a stealthclass with CC and 100 little toys they can offer to the two other stealthclasses in their realms when grouping with them, its not like an infil would need it, they are a solid class in themselves.
So pleease dont speak more about that a this and that would own a minstrel 1v1 and so on, that is not the point, the point is that mincer alone is 1 man, a mincer and infil is almost impossible for any other stealthduo/trio to beat (if the albs know how to play ).

Well I understand what u mean but a minstrel + infil together isnt impossible to kill but not easy to kill, 2 sbs aint easy for 2 csters to kill. All classes cant be balanced vs eachother imo the most important balance should be when u compare the realms in general, not 1 or 2 classes together vs 2 others. I mean the 2 casters would proberly whipe 2 pure tanks and the 2 tanks would proberly whipe both the minstrel and the sbs. Get my point?

I mean u have to use what ur realm got and make the best off it. For example the new BG+Grapple pbaoe fotm grps that hibs love to make they r hard and could be thought of as overpowered vs a tank grp. But the tank grp could make new starts and instead of assisting on one caster/one person they should spread out keep the casters/healers inerrupted n kill the BG tanks. Same thing can be done in stealthwar, avoid figthing areas where a minstrel and a infil could/would have the upper hand b/c of instant stunns etc, adapt urself to it itemwize/playstylewise/and RA-wise.

I mean complaining about that an infil and a minstrel can kill 2 sbs quiet easy is like moaning about 1 friar and 1 pala can kill 2 BMs because the friar can heal and the pala got shield.

 

[xxManiacxx]

it´s more like 1infil and 1minstrel can kill 2-3-4 SB´s.

 

[wittor]

it´s more like 1infil and 1minstrel can kill 2-3-4 SB´s.

bad played from sbs then ! xD

 

[Kraben]

Well I understand what u mean but a minstrel + infil together isnt impossible to kill but not easy to kill, 2 sbs aint easy for 2 csters to kill. All classes cant be balanced vs eachother imo the most important balance should be when u compare the realms in general, not 1 or 2 classes together vs 2 others. I mean the 2 casters would proberly whipe 2 pure tanks and the 2 tanks would proberly whipe both the minstrel and the sbs. Get my point?

I mean u have to use what ur realm got and make the best off it. For example the new BG+Grapple pbaoe fotm grps that hibs love to make they r hard and could be thought of as overpowered vs a tank grp. But the tank grp could make new starts and instead of assisting on one caster/one person they should spread out keep the casters/healers inerrupted n kill the BG tanks. Same thing can be done in stealthwar, avoid figthing areas where a minstrel and a infil could/would have the upper hand b/c of instant stunns etc, adapt urself to it itemwize/playstylewise/and RA-wise.

I mean complaining about that an infil and a minstrel can kill 2 sbs quiet easy is like moaning about 1 friar and 1 pala can kill 2 BMs because the friar can heal and the pala got shield.

So what would you have us do then? The scenarios you present cant be compared to stealthwars. I mean as a stealther you tend to run into enemy stealthers quite alot as we share the same hunting grounds. We simply lack choices. Minstrels provides a big edge in stealthwars favoring albion. You say we should adapt? Run in stealther fg's, get rr6+ get ML10? Just aint fair to get this in order to perhaps be able to counter what a class gets when dinging 50..

 

[Gizor]

bad played from sbs then ! xD

says who?

ah right, an infil.

 

[Dumle]

Well I understand what u mean but a minstrel + infil together isnt impossible to kill but not easy to kill, 2 sbs aint easy for 2 csters to kill. All classes cant be balanced vs eachother imo the most important balance should be when u compare the realms in general, not 1 or 2 classes together vs 2 others. I mean the 2 casters would proberly whipe 2 pure tanks and the 2 tanks would proberly whipe both the minstrel and the sbs. Get my point?

I mean u have to use what ur realm got and make the best off it. For example the new BG+Grapple pbaoe fotm grps that hibs love to make they r hard and could be thought of as overpowered vs a tank grp. But the tank grp could make new starts and instead of assisting on one caster/one person they should spread out keep the casters/healers inerrupted n kill the BG tanks. Same thing can be done in stealthwar, avoid figthing areas where a minstrel and a infil could/would have the upper hand b/c of instant stunns etc, adapt urself to it itemwize/playstylewise/and RA-wise.

I mean complaining about that an infil and a minstrel can kill 2 sbs quiet easy is like moaning about 1 friar and 1 pala can kill 2 BMs because the friar can heal and the pala got shield.

I am only talking stealthwars here, and in the stealthwars mid and hib are extremely at a disadvantage.

There just is no way, no how we can turn a "situation" to our advantage against a minstrel infil duo/trio. Try playing mid or hib stealther and you will se what I mean m8. Minstrels have tonight alone "killed" me more than the plague killed. I had lots of certain kills against both infils and scouts that was turned around by a minstrel that instastunned me and then I was ganked.

I also lost alot of fights today alone because of SOS and the enemys running away from me.
I would do alot better too with one instawinbutton and one insta get awaybutton, dont say Im exaggerating until youve seen the other side please.

 

[carp]

Try playing mid or hib stealther and you will se what I mean m8.

try to zerg less then this wont happen xD

 

[Kained_again]

There was a time that any infil who met a SB was toast, things have thankfully changed though.

A minstrel is a massive advantage in stealth wars, simply because of speed and cc. Their stealth is usually so god awfull though, they are nearly always the first to get hit.

Its all swings and roundabouts though, six months down the line, things will have changed again. Maybe by then the nerf-hounds will be crying about NS ability to damage at a range, preventing enemy stealthers sprinting and stealthing, maybe they will be complaining about the new overpowered realm abilities, or maybe...just maybe, they will go back to complaining about the LA nerf, and how its unfair that an Infil can actually fight back against a SB these days.

Just my incredibly biased opinion

 

[Danyan]

People have been whining about minstrels since the class was created. I think all the objections and proposals have been aired a thousand times on here and the VN boards. Maybe it's time to stop flogging the horse...

 

[xxManiacxx]

bad played from sbs then ! xD

Hmm aemezz from stealth, then infil lands up a PA = first SB dead before mez is gone from the other 2. stun next SB and whack away. = U get 2 without getting hit back almost. So 3 SB´s are not that hard to kill unless they all have purge up. But if we are gonna take RA´s in the disscussion then infil have vanish and minstrel SoS so either infil + minstrel win or they SoS away.

 

[Dumle]

Maybe it's time to stop flogging the horse...

Noooo, flogging horses is fun

 

[snopy]

explain why alb got 3 stealth classes and mid/hib only got 2??
i must have missed why so plz anlighten me

 

[Jaem-]

explain why alb got 3 stealth classes and mid/hib only got 2??
i must have missed why so plz anlighten me

Why does hib have more healing/caster classes?
Why does mid have more tank classes?

If you can answer those, then you prob will have your answer to your question ;o

 

[Arus Canus]

now let me see.

Flag for healer and u get
Albion:

Friar
Cleric
Mincer - yes mincer is considered healing class because of the heal song? no?
Paladin - heal chant

Hibernia:

Warden
Druid
Bard
Mentalist

Midgard:

Healer
Shaman
Skald ( heal song )

( any more, dunno as i never played midgard )

 

[Arus Canus]

Albion Caster

Necromancer
Theurgist
Wizard
Sorcerer
Cabalist

Hibernia Caster

Eldritch
Enchanter
Mentalist
Animist
Valewalker ( not a real caster tho )

seems like we got the same

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

So what would you have us do then? The scenarios you present cant be compared to stealthwars. I mean as a stealther you tend to run into enemy stealthers quite alot as we share the same hunting grounds. We simply lack choices. Minstrels provides a big edge in stealthwars favoring albion. You say we should adapt? Run in stealther fg's, get rr6+ get ML10? Just aint fair to get this in order to perhaps be able to counter what a class gets when dinging 50..

M8, thats is exactely what u should do. Your whining is like if I whined that a berzerker killed me and that it isnt fair that i have to get good eq/high rr/gaming experiance and ML's to have a chance to kill him...

 

[bigchief]

Mincer - yes mincer is considered healing class because of the heal song? no?
Paladin - heal chant

No

And the only time a pala is any use as a 'healer' is for soloing orange cons. A pull of 3 purples with only pally healing? Heh get a grip.

Most friars can barely heal either, oop after 10seconds. Theyre all omgwtfpwnstaffzors.

O btw Skalds dont count as a healing class either heh.

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

I am only talking stealthwars here, and in the stealthwars mid and hib are extremely at a disadvantage.

There just is no way, no how we can turn a "situation" to our advantage against a minstrel infil duo/trio. Try playing mid or hib stealther and you will se what I mean m8. Minstrels have tonight alone "killed" me more than the plague killed. I had lots of certain kills against both infils and scouts that was turned around by a minstrel that instastunned me and then I was ganked.

I also lost alot of fights today alone because of SOS and the enemys running away from me.
I would do alot better too with one instawinbutton and one insta get awaybutton, dont say Im exaggerating until youve seen the other side please.

Mate I have played other stealthers VS both SBS/infils and minstrels so I know, i got a rr5l9 nightshade on excal and when infils got minstrels in stealthwar u purge thier stunn and DD them when they try to mezz, not very hard at all.

 

[Matriarch|Sneakers]

Hmm aemezz from stealth, then infil lands up a PA = first SB dead before mez is gone from the other 2. stun next SB and whack away. = U get 2 without getting hit back almost. So 3 SB´s are not that hard to kill unless they all have purge up. But if we are gonna take RA´s in the disscussion then infil have vanish and minstrel SoS so either infil + minstrel win or they SoS away.

You shouldnt compare specific scenarios where ONLY stealthwar is REPESENTED, Albs got better stealthers ( thanks to minstrel ) hibs got better casters ( thanks to ench's/elds and druids GP ) and mid got better tanks (savage, Berz,warrior ). So ur asking mythic to balance one side of the game, then u have to be ready to nerf ur own wtfpwngogo chars aswell. I mean if we catagories Stealthwar, casterwar and tankwar in 3 diff categories then fiddling with stealthwar will make powerfull casters and make tanks worse at the same time. Fiddling with tanks to make them better vs casters when we nerfed stealthwar ( the stealthers have harder time vs casters = there will be more casters to pwn tanks ), and since we now made tanks better to handle the wtfpwnpwn casters that dont have the same threat vs stealthers (minstrel infils maybe ) then we have to make stealthwar better vs tanks since tanks should have the upper hand but not 1 hit them. Etc etc etc...

 

[Arus Canus]

Originally Posted by Bigchief
No

And the only time a pala is any use as a 'healer' is for soloing orange cons. A pull of 3 purples with only pally healing? Heh get a grip.

Most friars can barely heal either, oop after 10seconds. Theyre all omgwtfpwnstaffzors.

O btw Skalds dont count as a healing class either heh.

oh well. just remember what class did turn up when seeking healer in alb

 

[Arus Canus]

then again, its the choise of the friar either to spec heal or not.
still a heal class

 

[Dumle]

Mate I have played other stealthers VS both SBS/infils and minstrels so I know, i got a rr5l9 nightshade on excal and when infils got minstrels in stealthwar u purge thier stunn and DD them when they try to mezz, not very hard at all.

I dont have a DD to interrupt with when they are casting their mezz

 

[Chimaira]

......mid got better tanks (savage, Berz,warrior ).....

Thats lies. I eat berz and savages for breakfast

 

[Dumle]

You shouldnt compare specific scenarios where ONLY stealthwar is REPESENTED, Albs got better stealthers ( thanks to minstrel ) hibs got better casters ( thanks to ench's/elds and druids GP ) and mid got better tanks (savage, Berz,warrior ).

Actually you can categorize Stealthwar as the "alternative RvR", stealthers have the ability to (in most cases) avoid the non stealthclasses and have wars against almost only against other stealthers, hence why I call it stealthwars. Ofcourse you get steamrolled every now and then when you pop on another stealther but shit happens

And what this thread is about is still not stealthers vs casters, stealthers vs tanks or stealthers making pancakes. Its about stealthers vs stealthers and the fact that minstrel gives albion a huge advantage in those fights.

I do understand that there is a 99.9% probability that there never will be any change to it, I just like to air my frustration over it
That being said I still dont regret choosing midgard to play stealther in, the fact that midgard has the worst stealthers of the three realms just makes it a bit more challenging and rewarding whenever you do get a kill


A friend of mine told me about how he imagined the minstrel being created, scenario was this.

The developer of the game thinks that albion needs another class and he just cannot decide what he wants it to be, so he calls for his 7 year old son to ask for some advice. The son gleefully climbs up in his lap and looks at his father with sparkling eyes.
The father (developer) asks his son "Well my son what do you think this character should have?"
"Oh oh daddy, I think it should have tough armor and use weapons, and he should run very very fast because I like to run fast."
"Ok my son, that sounds good, anything else you can have anything you want."
"Wow really daddy?! then I want him to be able to make the nasties go to sleep and just stand there and look stupi while he kills them, and I want him to be able to hide so noone can see him."
"Absolutely my son, that is good we can do that."
"And can he have a button he can push so he can run away very very fast if he is getting beaten? Please daddy pleeease?!"
"We can fix that yes, anything for you my son."
"Can you make him fly too daddy?"
"Maybe next patch my son, for now he can climb walls, is that ok?"
"Oh yes daddy thank you"


And thus the Minstrel was born

 

[carp]

You have access to see hidden use it not hard to avoid a class you can see at 1500 range ;/

 

[Dumle]

Dont have it yet, low RR atleast I got my SC now

But I plan to get it, hehe

And Carp judging from your sig you love stealthers so Ill see you out there

 

[Kraben]

M8, thats is exactely what u should do. Your whining is like if I whined that a berzerker killed me and that it isnt fair that i have to get good eq/high rr/gaming experiance and ML's to have a chance to kill him...

I still hold the lack of options against you. I myself are carrying 6 lvl 10 artifacts and sc'ed equipment - top nodge gear. Still I constantly feel totally neglected when I face alb stealther groups with minstrels in. I dont have purge yet, but will have soon. Yet it will give a chance to do better every 30 mins only.
Your comparisment with zerkers is ridicolous tbh.. You play a caster and may get rolled over by a zerker/savage - but then you get rezzed. We all know how it goes. But for stealthers there arent much to do than release..
The impact minstrells does to the stealther wars er wastely bigger than what savages/berserkers do to tank war. Tank war have lots more means to counter high damage melee through toa and healing classes around. So we get high ML to even be able to counter just a bit? FZ - yay at casting it at a minstrell chain mezzing mid stealthers from a far. Bodyguard/Grapple? Still not the isue, its the crowd control thats the problem. Purge is good ye one time every 30 min - and you'll just get insta stunned anyway.